facepalm moment.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I was helping a new player create a character sheet when another friend said;
"Don't listen to him, he'll make you do bad choices, so he'll win."
I then had to explain that I won by the party having fun, instead of by killing them...

[Galithar]

I would kindly remind this friend that if the DM wanted to "win" by killing PCs that the Tarrasque exists when your PC is level 1. Or in other words the DM can arbitrarily kill your character within the confines of the rules at any time. They don't (except really bad ones) because the game is meant to be enjoyed not to be used to bully your friends imaginations.

But also remember that he may have had DMs in the past that have done things like this. It's not unheard of to learn of a DM that guides new players into suboptimal builds for the sole purpose of making them easy to kill, even with weak creatures. I've seen this under the guise of 'I didn't want to teach [new player] to be a powergamers/munchkin/murederhobo'. It's usually just a bad/angry/powertripping DM, and your friend could have experienced one of them before and thinks that's just what DMs do.

Edit: By suboptimal I mean absolute hot garbage with 0 synergy :P

[False God]

I am often surprised at the number of players who believe the DM is trying to kill them, and the number of DMs who believe it is their job to try to kill the players.

[Galithar]

I am often surprised at the number of players who believe the DM is trying to kill them, and the number of DMs who believe it is their job to try to kill the players.

As for the first part I strongly believe that it is the DMs job to make their players THINK he's trying to kill their characters whilst actually keeping them alive in all situations except the most foolishly stupid decisions. (Unless of course you're running a meat grinder campaign on purpose. Then you're supposed to make every challenge just barely above what you think they can handle, and when they survive you step it up a notch next time.

[Brookshw]

and the number of DMs who believe it is their job to try to kill the players.

How else would we know if we were winning? :smallwink:

[Luccan]

Has your friend played with you before? If they have and have come to this conclusion, it might be important to talk about why they think you're doing that. But otherwise, much eyerolling ensues.

I think, in addition to bad DMs, this is also perpetuated by players who think the game is always about killing anything remotely evil. For instance, just because this seer is undead, that does not mean you need to smite-on-sight. They might be neutral or even if they're evil, be more useful to you undead the all dead.

And just because a BBEG is here right now does not mean you can fight them right now. Better part of valor and all that.

[Particle_Man]

I am often surprised at the number of players who believe the DM is trying to kill them, and the number of DMs who believe it is their job to try to kill the players.

Um . . . kill the players or the characters? :smalleek:

[johnbragg]

Um . . . kill the players or the characters? :smalleek:

Maybe after we get some more levels.....

[Spore]

I feel no ill will is portrayed here. The newbie just mistook D&D for a tabletop game where one player plays vs the others, not a storytelling game.

[False God]

Um . . . kill the players or the characters? :smalleek:

Depends on how bad the metagaming gets. :smallbiggrin:

[Tawmis]

As for the first part I strongly believe that it is the DMs job to make their players THINK he's trying to kill their characters whilst actually keeping them alive in all situations except the most foolishly stupid decisions. (Unless of course you're running a meat grinder campaign on purpose. Then you're supposed to make every challenge just barely above what you think they can handle, and when they survive you step it up a notch next time.

I think (as I am sure you know, as you were probably generalizing) - that it depends on the DM.
I told my players (all brand new to D&D), that I am not out to kill them. I am there to tell a story that I want the players to shape, and that they will face a challenging (hopefully) set of encounters throughout the adventures - but never am I out to kill them. I do warn them that I WILL however kill characters who do foolish things. If I tell you that down further in the cave, you see a sleeping dragon and you're only level 2 and you try to ambush the dragon... I will play it all out - but it won't be pretty.

[Anonymouswizard]

As for the first part I strongly believe that it is the DMs job to make their players THINK he's trying to kill their characters whilst actually keeping them alive in all situations except the most foolishly stupid decisions. (Unless of course you're running a meat grinder campaign on purpose. Then you're supposed to make every challenge just barely above what you think they can handle, and when they survive you step it up a notch next time.

It can vary. In my current game fist fights are relatively dangerous, using weapons is best avoided, and fighting anybody with a gun and the skills to use it can run a real risk of a TPK (especially if they also have magick). But the goal is to avoid fighting altogether, the combat will leave you sucking penalties until you've healed, which could be weeks from now and you have to perform the ritual tomorrow, so it's best to use diplomacy, manipulation, or outright theft before getting into a fight (if only because you're more likely to be on home turf when they come to get whatever it is back).

To OP, in addition to what's been suggested, I'd recommend offering the other player to sit in on the character creation and participate if he's really concerned, and then focus on building whatever it is the new player. It allows him to 'make sure' you're not doing that while ideally keeping arguments to a minimum.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I am often surprised at the number of players who believe the DM is trying to kill them, and the number of DMs who believe it is their job to try to kill the players.

You mean it isn't my job to kill my players? What am I supposed to do with all these Lascannons, then?

[Lord Torath]

You mean it isn't my job to kill my players? What am I supposed to do with all these Lascannons, then?Just...just hand over the lascannons, there's a good GM. No need to aim these at your players. And seriously, where did you get those? Any chance you can find me a powerfist?

Feel free to target your players' characters, though!


3. What the players want today is a quick, easy victory. But what they will want tomorrow is to have faced insurmountable odds, finally defeating an enemy who they thought was about to kill them.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I feel no ill will is portrayed here. The newbie just mistook D&D for a tabletop game where one player plays vs the others, not a storytelling game.

you are correct.