How would you go about building a Dexterity and Intelligence-based fighter?

[pabelfly]

Looking for ideas on how people would go about building a melee character focused on dexterity and intelligence, with a low strength stat. No magic outside of magic items, but all splatbooks and Dragon magazine are allowed.

[Malroth]

How do you define "magic" because My default go-to answer would be Swordsage with a ranger 4 dip for BAB.

[Venger]

that's the correct answer. if maneuvers and no other variant casting system (binding, meldshaping, etc) is allowed, go rogue or factotum and max ranks in umd.

[pabelfly]

How do you define "magic" because My default go-to answer would be Swordsage with a ranger 4 dip for BAB.

I'm fine with Tome of Battle Maneuvers - I don't think I can build anything decent without it - but don't really want a character with divine/arcane/psionic/essentia etc.

[zlefin]

I'd also consider warblade, with a possible slight swordsage dip; which has several int-based benefits. with many of the maneuvers, the damage bonus from a stat is less important, so picking up weapon finesse or the shadow hand equivalent is enough because it gives you the to hit.

[MisterKaws]

The Chain Tripper, one of the most used Fighter builds, is primarily based off Dex. For Int, you'll either need to go Factotum or Warblade.

Or just shove up ranks in Knowledge for Knowledge Devotion and use that to buff yourself?

[Venger]

I'm fine with Tome of Battle Maneuvers - I don't think I can build anything decent without it - but don't really want a character with divine/arcane/psionic/essentia etc.

it's not that hard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?259783-3-5-Swordsage-Handbook-This-one-ll-walk-the-whole-Way-WIP-PEACH) as dip and splash friendly as the martial adepts are, each one is perfectly playable as straight 20. follow the handbook's advice when it comes to maneuvers and use your common sense otherwise and you'll probably be fine.

[liquidformat]

The most basic is going rogue3/swashbuckler 17 with daring outlaw at 6, TWF feats, take penetrating strike at rogue 3 and shield of blades, if dm allows take arcane strike to replace grace. This gives you int to damage

From there rogue3/swashbuckler15/swordsage 2 taking the first level of sword sage around level 9 for optimal choices.

Adding in invisible blade or duelist gives you int to AC if you don't wear armor.

Shadow Blade gives you dex to damage, gloom razor adds some interesting abilities but not great the best is Lingering Gloom.

[pabelfly]

The Chain Tripper, one of the most used Fighter builds, is primarily based off Dex. For Int, you'll either need to go Factotum or Warblade.

Or just shove up ranks in Knowledge for Knowledge Devotion and use that to buff yourself?

I really liked the Education + Knowledge Devotion combo for both flavour and getting extra to-hit when I was trying to build the concept for myself.

[Efrate]

See if your dm will allow carmendine monk to apply to unarmed swordsage? There is a list of stat x to thing y somewhere around here I will see if I can dig up the link.

link

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus

[GrayDeath]

For the most basic Initiator Version I`d go with Warblade 11+ish, Swordsage 1 to 3, and Master of the Nine. Most of the needed feats require Dexterity anyway.

Maneuverwise I`d recommend Diamond Mind as mainstay, with Shadow hand and depending on your taste Tiger Claw or Desert Wind to supoort it.
Add Weapon Finesse to the prerequ-feats, and you are mostly done.

Lots of Maneuvers, Adaptable, and not really strength dependent in any form.

[Falontani]

Changeling Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 3/Sneak Attack Fighter (thug) 1/Lasher 3/Warblade 1/Lasher 6/rogue 1/fighter 4 (hit and run)
1) Able Learner
3) Weapon Focus: Whip
6) Martial Study: shadow hand something
7) Improved Trip(b)
9) Shadow Blade (if you can get an aptitude weapon, if not grab level 12 and so on)
12) Craven
12) Improved Disarm(b)
15) Daring Outlaw
16) Two Weapon Fighting(b)
18) Combat Reflexes(b)
18) Snatch Weapon
20) weapon specialization: Whip

Disarming strike and assassin's stance are important.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10 (if being an elf is an option). Eternal Blade starts throwing int all over, attack, damage, AC, and penalizing enemy's AC for your allies. It also lets you ignore the enemy's DR. Warblade also grants some delicious int options.

[Darrin]

Daring Outlaw comes to mind: Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16. TWF, Combat Reflexes, Double Hit, Oxyrhynchus, maybe throw some Dragonborn in there for Dragon Tail/Prehensile Tail.

Warblade 20 + TWF would also be decent. If you want to throw Swashbuckler 3 in there, Swash 3/Fighter 2/Barb 1/Warblade 14 with Pounce/Whirling Frenzy should be pretty solid. Martial Study/Martial Stance qualifies you for Shadow Blade.

As ZamielVanWeber mentioned, Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10 is extremely solid, particularly if Snow Elf (Frostburn) is available.

[Venger]

never seen that race mentioned before. that's quite a find.

[Vizzerdrix]

I'll chime in on a darring outlaw build, with collector of stories, education, and knowledge devotion. I'd also take 3 levels of human paragon (early) to grab Ijatsu Focus. Int and Dex go well with IF. Grab skill focus and Imp Init to play up yer strengths.

[liquidformat]

Special mention to the crazy feat Faerie Mysteries Initiate which allows you to use int mod instead of con for determining hp...

[Venger]

not that crazy. it's only for 1st lvl

[Efrate]

Actually it's all levels if you do it once, since benefits last until you perform another ritual. Have a fey lover who then dies or goes away or just a one time fling and you have int to hp forever instead of con.

[liquidformat]

Actually it's all levels if you do it once, since benefits last until you perform another ritual. Have a fey lover who then dies or goes away or just a one time fling and you have int to hp forever instead of con.

This was my understanding as well, even if dm rules you have to repeat the ritual every level, depending on how much down time you get between each level that isn't exactly a restriction if the fey lover doesn't die...

[schreier]

What about rogue 3 (lightbringer penetrating strike) / barbarian 1 ( lion spiritual totem / hunter / city brawler) / fighter 1 (exoticist / thug / dirty fighter / drow) / scout 15

Go swift ambusher, swift Hunter, craven

[RNightstalker]

The most basic is going rogue3/swashbuckler 17 with daring outlaw at 6, TWF feats, take penetrating strike at rogue 3 and shield of blades, if dm allows take arcane strike to replace grace. This gives you int to damage

From there rogue3/swashbuckler15/swordsage 2 taking the first level of sword sage around level 9 for optimal choices.

Adding in invisible blade or duelist gives you int to AC if you don't wear armor.

Shadow Blade gives you dex to damage, gloom razor adds some interesting abilities but not great the best is Lingering Gloom.

Only drawback to Duelist is you're limited by class levels as to how much of your IQ you can add to AC.

[liquidformat]

Only drawback to Duelist is you're limited by class levels as to how much of your IQ you can add to AC.

If you are only dipping then yes that is lame, but +10 int mod pre epic takes some work to hit...

[gorfnab]

Only drawback to Duelist is you're limited by class levels as to how much of your IQ you can add to AC.

If you are only dipping then yes that is lame, but +10 int mod pre epic takes some work to hit...

I created this build a while ago that actually utilizes Duelist and other Int and Dex based classes, feats, and what not to produce a unique unarmed swordsman.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense (CS), Combat Expertise, B: Weapon Finesse
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Decisive Strike (PHBII) Monk - B: Dodge
3. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - Carmendine Monk (CoV), B: Mobility
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander (PHBII)
10. Thief Acrobat or Warblade
11. Warblade or Duelist
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura (ToB)
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit (PHBII)
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior (ToB)
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

This build uses a number of the options mentioned in this handbook: A short guide to defensive fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?178445-A-short-guide-to-defensive-fighting)

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available, choose two and then grab the feats EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (CAdv, pre-errata version if possible) and Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHBII). If traits are available pick up Cautious (UA).

Items:
Vest of Defense (MIC)
Bracers of Blocking (Dragon 322)
Broadblade Shortsword (CAdv) (pre-errata version if possible) or Rapier with the Defensive Surge (MIC) enhancement.

[weckar]

Factotum with swashbuckler dip, taking one or two levels of swordsage (depending on your wis score) near the end of the pre-game build to easily get that dex-to-damage feat.

[Venger]

shadow blade

[pabelfly]

shadow blade

Yeah, I really like the Shadow Blade feat. Wish there were more ways to stack Dex to damage that weren't so level/feat intensive.

[Venger]

sounds an awful lot like melee having nice things. there are one or two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus) other ways to do it.

[ayvango]

Use kobold with slight build. Take 3 lvl of factotum which adds Int to your trip checks. Then take Confound the Big Folk tactical feat which allows you to trip with dexterity instead of strength.