[3.5] Looking For Creature To Skeletonize

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

So I'm looking for a base creature to apply the Skeleton template to.

The kicker is I want something with a large number of RHD, but could still pass as a "human" skeleton. I want to trick prople into thinking they are facing a lowly 1 HD CR 1/3 monster.

So something medium, humanoid-shaped, with a lot of RHD. Preferably without horns, wings, tail or anything that would clearly mark it as not being human.

Cheers - T

[Segev]

You could give a stone giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm#stoneGiant) (14 RHD) skeleton an item of continual compression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/compression.htm), reducing it to Medium size.

A continuous item (perhaps "compressive armor?") would be 8000 gp market value.

If you up it to a 36000 gp item (upping base duration to 1 min/level to reduce some of the multiplier, and shrinking two size categories), you could put it on a Storm Giant (19 RHD) skeleton and have it be Medium.

[Thurbane]

Interesting idea, but I'd rather not jump through hoops - a natively medium creature would be better.

[MisterKaws]

Well, there's the Leshay, but they can only be animated by epic spells(imagine a 50hd elf skeleton running around).

I guess you could go with a 15HD-Advanced Incarnate Construct Skeleton Nimblewright. It's pretty close to the maximum as far as HD goes, and gets nice scores for a medium skeleton.

[Segev]

Well, there's the Leshay, but they can only be animated by epic spells(imagine a 50hd elf skeleton running around).

I guess you could go with a 15HD-Advanced Incarnate Construct Skeleton Nimblewright. It's pretty close to the maximum as far as HD goes, and gets nice scores for a medium skeleton.

Actually, LeShay (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/leshay.htm) looks like a good choice. I don't see anything in the RAW which state that it takes epic magic to animate a LeShay skeleton. It's 50 HD, but that just means you need a CL of 25 (or of 13, if you cast it in an area of a desecration spell).

50d12+100 (or +200 if there's an altar to an evil god in the desecrate AoE) hit points, 21 Str, and 47 Dex, Superior Two-Weapon Fighting, and arguably DR 15/epic and cold iron (because having DR lets your natural weapons bypass similar DR)

Never mind, it's in the Skeleton template, not in the spell. :smallsigh: Really, writers? :smallannoyed: No creature with more than 20 HD can be made into a skeleton by animate dead.

Maybe it can be made a bone warrior, or create undead can be used to make it into a skeleton anyway?

Edit to add: That said, as long as it's not animate dead doing it, nothing says a LeShay can't become a skeleton. So if you're not trying to make this a necromancer-with-animate-dead's doing, you can have it happen.

[Thurbane]

Without templates or shenanigans Ruin Chanter (MM5 p.132) or Wild Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070601a) may be the best options? Each have 20 HD, and I think their skeletons could pass for human...

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM5_Gallery/106292.jpg
http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/errata_wildhunter.jpg

[Biggus]

If the undead's creator can cast 9th-level spells, there's Plague of Undead from the Spell Compendium, which as far as I know has no limit specified anywhere for the maximum HD of skeletons or zombies it can create (except the limit of four times your caster level for each casting of the spell, which isn't very limiting for someone with CL 17+).

[Segev]

If the undead's creator can cast 9th-level spells, there's Plague of Undead from the Spell Compendium, which as far as I know has no limit specified anywhere for the maximum HD of skeletons or zombies it can create (except the limit of four times your caster level for each casting of the spell, which isn't very limiting for someone with CL 17+).

"Now you will see! Fear! Fear as I raise an army - nay, a PLAGUE! - of skeletons to do my bidding, here in this elven graveyard! I have cast the spell! THEY RISE!"

*one lone skeleton pulls itself to its feet*

"Uh....... KILL THEM! Maybe I can run away while it distracts them."

*LeShay skeleton starts kicking the butts of the party*

"er, I mean, YES! DESTROY THEM, my brutally powerful super-skeleton! Just as I planned!"

[Biggus]

"Now you will see! Fear! Fear as I raise an army - nay, a PLAGUE! - of skeletons to do my bidding, here in this elven graveyard! I have cast the spell! THEY RISE!"

*one lone skeleton pulls itself to its feet*

"Uh....... KILL THEM! Maybe I can run away while it distracts them."

*LeShay skeleton starts kicking the butts of the party*

"er, I mean, YES! DESTROY THEM, my brutally powerful super-skeleton! Just as I planned!"

*Villain and his super-skeleton kill the heroes*

*Villain, puzzled but gleeful, goes home, taking his super-skeleton with him*

*A few days later, a dozen living LeShay turn up at the villain's HQ wanting to speak to him about the violation of their ancestral graveyard*

[The Viscount]

Are you looking for a plain monster, or are you willing to do some template stacking for better results?
If you apply the half-dragon template to the humanoid of your choice, you can then animate via animate dead but instead apply the skeletal dragon template from draconomicon. It's basically the skeleton template with extra perks. You gain 1 hp per HD, you don't recalculate BA or saves, you retain extraordinary special attacks, and most importantly, there's no HD cap.

[Thurbane]

Are you looking for a plain monster, or are you willing to do some template stacking for better results?
If you apply the half-dragon template to the humanoid of your choice, you can then animate via animate dead but instead apply the skeletal dragon template from draconomicon. It's basically the skeleton template with extra perks. You gain 1 hp per HD, you don't recalculate BA or saves, you retain extraordinary special attacks, and most importantly, there's no HD cap.

Plain monster would probably be better, but that's an interesting idea.

TBH, I think Ruin Chanter is pretty much ideal for my needs. Although it's skeleton may appear more elven than human.

[KillianHawkeye]

Do you need it to be a Skeleton specifically? Because there are a lot of powerful, intelligent undead creatures out there who superficially look a lot like skeletons at first glance (mohrg, lich, death knight, et al).

[Telonius]

Yeah, of those, Ruin Chanter is probably best. The other one's head would be floating a bit above the rest of its body, which might give it away.

If you're limited to just the MM1, Green Hag would probably be the closest in appearance. It's described as being "about the same height and weight as a female human." Without the green skin to give it away, I don't know that there would be any obvious differences. 9 RHD.

[darkela5]

The revived fossil template is pretty nasty if you apply it to a baboon: you get a CR 1/3 creature that has +12 ac, dr 10/adamantite, 2d6+2 claws, 1d12+20 HP (27), Organization: Solitary or troop (10-40).
Ouch! and its cr 1/3, the party wont be expecting the skeleton monkeys to be a potential TPK.

Also it fits the OP of a cr 1/3 creature to turn into a skelly also it kinda looks like a human skeleton.

You could also turn a neandertal (frostburn) into a revived fossil if you want even more human like.

*Edit: I hope this helps you.

[ShurikVch]

How about the Gloom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/gloom.htm)? They're look "very much like a human from the neck down", and head may be covered by a helmet, hood, or mask...

Also, there should be many Fey (such as Frostwind Virago), Monstrous Humanoids (say, Ethereal Doppelganger), or Outsiders (for example, Daelkyr) who would look indistinguishable from mere Humanoids as a Skeletons

Final suggestion: how about the Bone Golem Warrior from Kingdoms of Kalamar (The Lost Tomb Of Kruk-Ma-Kali)?
As description says, "Their creators revel in the notion that the victims of their construct will waste their time trying to turn an animated corpse that is actually not undead."
It's Medium-sized 15 HD Construct (made of bones of some renowned warrior of the past) with 25 Str and 20 Dex, Magic Immunity (any spell up to 3rd-level, and Sp or Su which simulate such spells), SR 21, DR...

[Thurbane]

Does this stat block look right:

Ruin Chanter Skeleton
Medium Undead

Hit Dice: 20d12 (130 hp)
Initiative: +12
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 40 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 20 (+8 Dex, +2 natural), touch 18, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+15
Attack: Light mace +15 melee (1d6+5) or claw +15 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: Light mace +15/+10 melee (1d6+5) and claw +10 melee (1d4+2); or 2 claws +15 melee (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/bludgeoning, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to cold, undead traits
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +14, Will +12
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 27, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Improved Initiative
Environment: Any ruins
Organization: Any
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

[Mr Adventurer]

No, the claws should be 1d4, not 1d5, if they're just from the Skeleton template.

EDIT: Also, 20 HD means BAB +10/+5, so the light mace should be +15/+10 melee. Claws should be +15.

Equip it with a feycraft light mace and it'll be even better at hitting.

[Thurbane]

No, the claws should be 1d4, not 1d5, if they're just from the Skeleton template.

EDIT: Also, 20 HD means BAB +10/+5, so the light mace should be +15/+10 melee. Claws should be +15.

Equip it with a feycraft light mace and it'll be even better at hitting.

Thank you. The 1d5 was a typo, but I messed up the mace attack.

[Mr Adventurer]

A claw or claws used on their own should be +15 too.

As well, when making a full attack with only a light mace, it can also make an additional claw attack as a secondary natural weapon, at -5 to its normal attack bonus and with only half Str bonus to damage. So, the full attack should look like:

Light mace +15/+10 melee (1d6+5) and claw +10 melee (1d4+2); or 2 claws +15 melee (1d4+5)

...unless there's something in the Skeleton template which says otherwise.

[TheCount]

There is the Bone creature template, if you are willing to put 1 template on your skeletons, though, its from Book of Vile Darkness....

[Thurbane]

There is the Bone creature template, if you are willing to put 1 template on your skeletons, though, its from Book of Vile Darkness....

Problem there is the end result has the same CR as the base creature. I am a fan of the Bone Creature template, and use it a bit in my games - but I'm looking for something with a lot of HD and relatively low CR in this case.

I'm wondering if the skeleton above is actually a viable CR 8 threat? Might need to have it augemented with some Corpsecrafter feats etc. Also, if it was awakened, it could have feats, skills etc.

[Mr Adventurer]

Just eyeballing it, looks like a lot of hit points and attack bonus, but not much AC or damage output.

The Vile Death spell would give it the Fiendish template, which at 20 HD would max out the template's benefits. But wouldn't do much to help with damage output. VD is a 9th level spell, too, so might not be appropriate.

[Mr Adventurer]

I've been doing some light delving into nonmagical or low cost equipment lately so here's a couple of other ideas:

If it's legitimate to give it a different weapon, it would definitely benefit from a two-handed weapon - 2d6+7 for a greatsword versus 1d6+5 as-is. It's tough to leverage that high Dex without build resources.

That said - if the orders it's been given that trigger it's attack can include "press this button" first, then you could include an Oil Chamber (Dungeonscape) weapon modification in whatever it has. Then just pick the magical oil you want to apply. Greater Magic Weapon is one obvious choice but there's probably other melee-weapon-enhancing-spells out there that would give you more bang for your gold.

Likewise, it might not be proficient in armour but padded armour has no check penalty (and a +8 max Dex) so it doesn't matter - and can include up to two Oil Chambers it could be commanded to apply. I don't know what armour oils are good in this scenario off the top of my head.