Healer/Apostle of peace Build (Your thoughts)

[OGDojo]

Okay so im building a healer (As you do) and i found some interesting prestige classes, the one that caught my eye was one called "Apostle of Peace"

now this build works perfectly if you start the Apostle of Peace class at Healer level 11 (Replacing your 11th level with first level of apostle of peace) cuz at that point you gain ALOT of advantages as well as maintaining the majority of your abilities from the healer class. but i wanna hear some of your comments on things like

What do you think of the prestige as a whole?
What class would you combine it with?
What feats would be advantageous (Especially Exalted feats cuz they are so few)?
if you played before:
What kind of character was it?
Was it successful in the party?
How did you like it?
what was your favorite feat combo with it?
and any other things that you might like to add.

This is more for discussion than anything and possibly a good way to get some ideas on Exalted feats for a pacifist build. the more you post the better of an idea others will have for building this type of character

[ZamielVanWeber]

Apostle of Peace is cool, flavorful, not terrible mechanically, but absolutely must be run by your party and DM before you think of taking it. It fundamentally changes the base assumptions of the game and Vow of Nonviolence will actively punish your allies for not following the play style you suddenly mandated for them and Vow of Peace will be a tricky mess to sort.

Also I recommend entering AoP ASAP because you can dismount into Hierophant or Wonderworker and not lose casting for their benefits.

[OGDojo]

Apostle of Peace is cool, flavorful, not terrible mechanically, but absolutely must be run by your party and DM before you think of taking it. It fundamentally changes the base assumptions of the game and Vow of Nonviolence will actively punish your allies for not following the play style you suddenly mandated for them and Vow of Peace will be a tricky mess to sort.

Also I recommend entering AoP ASAP because you can dismount into Hierophant or Wonderworker and not lose casting for their benefits.

Huh well Wonderworker would be nice except i had a hard time finding Exalted feats to take with just the Vow of Poverty feat.
Hierophant looks awesome but theres no way i can finish his progression without upping my Base attack bonus before level 5 by taking another class... actually there may be a feat for that. i remember a friend that was able to increase his BAB by 2 using a specific feat tree or specific feats that have rediculous requirements.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Hierophant requires Know (Religion) 15,a metamagic feat, and 7th level divine spells. All easily supplied by an Apostle of Peace. No BAB needed.

[MisterKaws]

Huh well Wonderworker would be nice except i had a hard time finding Exalted feats to take with just the Vow of Poverty feat.
Hierophant looks awesome but theres no way i can finish his progression without upping my Base attack bonus before level 5 by taking another class... actually there may be a feat for that. i remember a friend that was able to increase his BAB by 2 using a specific feat tree or specific feats that have rediculous requirements.


There's no feat to increase base attack bonus in D&D first-party books. At most you could use a Skilled weapon or spam Divine Power.

Taking Apostle of Peace from Healer is counter-intuitive, especially at level 11. The best way to use Apostle of Peace is by taking it at level 8(the minimum required for Concentration 10) and advancing it fully from there. And if you're already a caster with 6th-level divine spells, what do you get by going into a class with 1st-level spells? Of course, you get Turn Undead, which is good, but there's better ways to do it(Sacred Exorcist). Basically your plan makes no sense.

Finally, Apostle of Peace is very very game-breaking and could end a campaign if not discussed previously with the party. Taking this class means no one in your party can kill any living being in your presence, and D&D is a game that is very much about killing living beings. The restrictions imposed by it alter the attitude of the entire party. It's a thousand times worse than a Paladin player following the code of conduct literally.

[Karl Aegis]

Healer's special mount is better than what Apostle of Peace gives.

[OGDojo]

There's no feat to increase base attack bonus in D&D first-party books. At most you could use a Skilled weapon or spam Divine Power.

Taking Apostle of Peace from Healer is counter-intuitive, especially at level 11. The best way to use Apostle of Peace is by taking it at level 8(the minimum required for Concentration 10) and advancing it fully from there. And if you're already a caster with 6th-level divine spells, what do you get by going into a class with 1st-level spells? Of course, you get Turn Undead, which is good, but there's better ways to do it(Sacred Exorcist). Basically your plan makes no sense.

Finally, Apostle of Peace is very very game-breaking and could end a campaign if not discussed previously with the party. Taking this class means no one in your party can kill any living being in your presence, and D&D is a game that is very much about killing living beings. The restrictions imposed by it alter the attitude of the entire party. It's a thousand times worse than a Paladin player following the code of conduct literally.


Its not that you cant kill ANYONE its that you cant kill HELPLESS beings within 120 feet. but i see what your saying.
Taking apostle of peace at level 8 still gives you the same issue with the spells but gives you that issue 2 levels earlier, it also means that the Hierophant levels i would get would only be 2 so it wouldnt be worth trying to jump into that on top of it unless i can get take apostle of peace earlier or hierophant earlier but neither seems possible which is why i decided not to go into hierophant

also i picked healer because of the roleplay value of the class not to build the most overpowered class. so if my choices are a little wonky its due to roleplay choice not because im a dolt

[ZamielVanWeber]

So you have some misconceptions about Vow of Peace/Waging Peace:
You may not cause harm to any living being. There is no range limit. You may deal nonlethal damage.
You may not use incapacitating spells so your allies can kill them. There is no range limit.
Vow of Nonviolence says that your allies may not kill humanoid or monstrous humanoid foes within 120 feet of you. You still suffer the penalties regardless of the foe's distance from you.

Now, Kaws is right that healer 10 is not doing you any favors. Healer 7-9 are better break points. Healer 8, AoP 10, then Hierophant 2 divine reach and faith healing. Now your healing has range and is decently potent, you have your awesome backup unicorn friend, you have the aura and touch of calm emotions to end some fights, and you get 9th's at 17, right on schedule.

[MisterKaws]

Its not that you cant kill ANYONE its that you cant kill HELPLESS beings within 120 feet. but i see what your saying.
Taking apostle of peace at level 8 still gives you the same issue with the spells but gives you that issue 2 levels earlier, it also means that the Hierophant levels i would get would only be 2 so it wouldnt be worth trying to jump into that on top of it unless i can get take apostle of peace earlier or hierophant earlier but neither seems possible which is why i decided not to go into hierophant

also i picked healer because of the roleplay value of the class not to build the most overpowered class. so if my choices are a little wonky its due to roleplay choice not because im a dolt

Look earlier on the Book of Exalted Deeds in "Waging Peace". I'm on a trip and away from books until later tonight, but it is explicitly stated that neither can you do any lethal damage to a living being, nor can you allow any associates to finish a downed foe. Additionally, you need to accept any surrender, regardless of it being a lie or not, and only upon being constantly attacked after sparing a foe can you allow your party to deal the finishing blow.

Can you see how annoying this would be to a normal party of murderhobos?



Came home, read books, now correcting what I said earlier: The limitations are pointed out in the Special sections for Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace. Your party can basically never slay a foe unless it's an accident(meaning the creature had 50 hp and your barbarian hit it for 100 for example). You cannot use save-or-die spells, and no one in your party can use save-or-lose spells like Glitterdust, Sleep and related spells to then Coup de Grace.

Basically, any creature needs to be killed by damage overflow from your party members, with no help from casters. Your party also loses the most effective method of killing foes which is by just making them helpless and finishing them off. It makes the game a totally different thing.