Need a good class

[Crow_Nightfeath]

So I'm building a brown dragon as a character, the campaign is pretty high level, so a very young (large dragon), and I'll have 4 class levels on top of my 9 dragon HD. I have been thinking and thinking and I just cannot figure out what class to be.

[StevenC21]

Are brown dragons Homebrew?

More information necessary.

[Crow_Nightfeath]

Oh yeah, Monsters of Faerune page 39

They're a large wingless dragon with 9 HD
Good strength good Constitution, a bonus to all mentals. 60ft land speed 60 ft burrow tremor sense 500 ft (not a typo on my part at least) acid line 4d6 immunity to acid.

[MisterKaws]

Are brown dragons Homebrew?

More information necessary.

It's a Faerûnian dragon, AFAIK. The same obnoxiously obscure book as the Steel Dragon, but unlike the latter, they don't have a web version, so I can't easily find its stats either.

[Particle_Man]

Do they have sorcerer caster levels? Maybe sorcerer levels could build on that?

[ViperMagnum357]

First off, Brown Dragon is pretty bad. No Fly speed, a decent Burrow speed but no Climb or Swim; and one breath weapon, an Acid line which ranks you just above the White Dragon for worst breath weapons. About the only redeeming feature is tremorsense. At Very Young, you have no caster level, no DR, no SR, no frightful presence, and no other abilities-even your natural attack routine is crap because you you miss out on two wing slams.

...Honestly, why are you playing a Brown Dragon? Maybe the reason you cannot find a class for this, is because the critter would probably be better off advancing by RHD.

[Crow_Nightfeath]

Do they have sorcerer caster levels? Maybe sorcerer levels could build on that?

Not at very young they get their first caster level at juvenile (2 more age categories)

[liquidformat]

Do you have access to Eberron material for this campaign? Taking Loredrake or any of the other special archetypes from Dragons of Eberron are very much worth while.

Beyond that what do you want to be able to do with this character, it is often better to start there especially with a dragon...

[Crow_Nightfeath]

First off, Brown Dragon is pretty bad. No Fly speed, a decent Burrow speed but no Climb or Swim; and one breath weapon, an Acid line which ranks you just above the White Dragon for worst breath weapons. About the only redeeming feature is tremorsense. At Very Young, you have no caster level, no DR, no SR, no frightful presence, and no other abilities-even your natural attack routine is crap because you you miss out on two wing slams.

...Honestly, why are you playing a Brown Dragon? Maybe the reason you cannot find a class for this, is because the critter would probably be better off advancing by RHD.

I've always liked them to be honest, they're a dragon most DMs don't have an issue with me using because they don't have flight, and most dragons don't have frieghtful presence or DR or a caster level at a playable level. Most other playable dragons are generally a lot smaller, unless you're looking at red, gold, radiant, tartarian, pyroclastic or howling, which all have higher level adjustments for their wyrmling age than brown has for even its young.

Part of this dragon choice is also he's going to have a rider, so he needs to be bigger than the one riding him.

And I wish I could advance in racial HD but the DM said no to that oddly enough..

[Particle_Man]

Maybe swordsage? Not so much for strikes if you like the full attack natural attack routines but you can get some nice boosts and counters and a teleport. Or go setting sun and be a dragon that throws people around. You can also get fire resistance 20 if you take the flame’s blessing stance and pour ranks into tumble. You could later take the charge pounce tiger claw maneuver. Basically there are a lot of fun tricks to use as a swordsage.

[ViperMagnum357]

I've always liked them to be honest, they're a dragon most DMs don't have an issue with me using because they don't have flight, and most dragons don't have frieghtful presence or DR or a caster level at a playable level. Most other playable dragons are generally a lot smaller, unless you're looking at red, gold, radiant, tartarian, pyroclastic or howling, which all have higher level adjustments for their wyrmling age than brown has for even its young.

Part of this dragon choice is also he's going to have a rider, so he needs to be bigger than the one riding him.

And I wish I could advance in racial HD but the DM said no to that oddly enough..

That makes some sense. No advancing RHD puts any thought of full caster or breath weapon specialist out the window: so you are likely looking at either a skill monkey or a martial build.

No hands is a damper at low levels for the former; from there, probably go martial. Initiator will effectively give you some retroactive class features for the very good base HD, and the Int bonus plus 6+Int skills means you should be able to qualify for PRCs quickly. If you can, a one level dip in Lion Totem Barbarian is a good place to start, then think about which Initiator class you want to build around. Also, don't rule out a few quick dips to pick up bonus feats or extra abilities; Fighter 1 or 2, Monk 1 or 2, and Ranger 1, 2 or 3 can pick up pesky feat prereqs alongside a random grab bag of miscellaneous stuff.

[Glimbur]

Check out Totemist in Magic of Incarnum. They are quite good at natural attacks and get better if you already have some. You will be far behind on chakra binds but you can patch that a little with feats.

[liquidformat]

Can you tell us what your alignment is, your ability scores, and the class skills for your brown dragon levels? My suggestion would be to directly hop into a prc unless you are wanting to cherry pick something from a specific class. Maybe do something like barb 2/Champion of Gwynharwyf 2 or Barb 1 or 2/ Fist of the Forest 2 or 3, barb 1 or 2/Runescarred Berserker 2 or 3 , alternatively going totemist, warblade, or swordsage are always nice too.

[Segev]

Is the rider a PC or NPC? What’s his build?

[ExLibrisMortis]

If you can, pick up the Wyrm of War archetype (Dragons of Eberron). It's a little cheesy (two bonus feats and weapon/armour proficiencies for free), but brown dragons need the help.

With that, I'd probably pick up four levels in crusader, and build something lockdown-heavy with your 10' bite. Karmic Strike, Robilar's Gambit, Large and in Charge, Knockdown, that sort of thing. At level 15, Defensive Sweep.

[Falontani]

I've always liked them to be honest, they're a dragon most DMs don't have an issue with me using because they don't have flight, and most dragons don't have frieghtful presence or DR or a caster level at a playable level. Most other playable dragons are generally a lot smaller, unless you're looking at red, gold, radiant, tartarian, pyroclastic or howling, which all have higher level adjustments for their wyrmling age than brown has for even its young.

Part of this dragon choice is also he's going to have a rider, so he needs to be bigger than the one riding him.

And I wish I could advance in racial HD but the DM said no to that oddly enough..

Dragon 9: Wyrm of War: grants you bonus feats as a fighter (ish) and martial/armor profs. After that your best bet is to use your burrow speed to your advantage. Get something that grants you Improved Grab with a decent size limit (so not limited to halflings) pull things under ground with Spring Attack.
4d6 acid isn't the best to use as a breath weapon, however it does allow you to take metabreath feats with your level 1 3 6 and 9 feats if you so chose, so you could advance into a class that grants a more powerful breath weapon (like dragonfire adept).

[Crow_Nightfeath]

Well he's a brown dragon raised to be good(ish at least) I haven't actually decided on whether to go full good or not yet, I've looked through the list of prestige classes and none of them really jumped at me.

[pabelfly]

What about Wyrm Wizard? Does your dragon have spells yet?

[Segev]

Is the rider a PC or NPC? What’s his build?


Well he's a brown dragon raised to be good(ish at least) I haven't actually decided on whether to go full good or not yet, I've looked through the list of prestige classes and none of them really jumped at me.

I asked about the rider because this puts some limits on him (my first instinct of an ambush-burrower using Tremorsense and Burrow to sneak around and attack things from underground wouldn't work with a rider that can be scraped off by the tunnel roof), but also will influence what is the best choice for how to optimize. You want to complement your rider. So his build is crucial to optimizing your own. If he's another PC, you need to know what he's planning and how he will fight and act. If he's an NPC, we can build him as a cohort to complement you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If I were you, I'd look into classes that can use your racial HD to improve what they give you, such as the ToB classes, or ardent with access to either Practiced Manifester or (preferably) Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) to boost your manifester level.

Can you get your DM to change jade phoenix mage to be psionic? It's a really easy fix; just convert spell slots to psionic power points. Then go ToB class of your choice/ardent with one of the above feats/psionic jade phoenix mage.

Otherwise, look into fast progression casting classes, such as sublime chord or ur-priest to catch up on what your racial HD have put you behind on. Maybe some draconic archetypes for casting boosters?

[Particle_Man]

Technically, you could go Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Swordsage 1/Master of Nine 1 if you don't mind your feats being allocated to meet the prerequisites of Master of Nine. It would give you something to do (and talk about!) over the next four levels as you walk the 10th path. It does mean you have a lot of maneuvers to keep track of.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It does mean you have a lot of maneuvers to keep track of. Maneuver cards?

Maneuver cards. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)

[MisterKaws]

Maneuver cards?

Maneuver cards. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)

Still, a third of your maneuvers are played like a card game(Crusader), a third are refreshed whenever the hell you feel like(Warblade), and a third are one-use(Swordsage). It'd be pretty damn bothersome to remember them all of the time.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Still, a third of your maneuvers are played like a card game(Crusader), a third are refreshed whenever the hell you feel like(Warblade), and a third are one-use(Swordsage). It'd be pretty damn bothersome to remember them all of the time.Maybe print them on different colored papers, or outline them with different colored markers around the outer edges?

[Particle_Man]

Also, adaptive style is a prerequisite for master of nine, so that adds a refresh mechanism to all of them that greatly benefits the swordsage part.