How to Set Up a Cart Race

[Maelynn]

In my setting, Highharvestide is coming up. One of the activities is a Halfling Cart Race. Since we have 2 Halflings in the party (well, 1 Halfling and 1 Bugbear who thinks he is), I want to let them participate. I've come up with a few mechanics to try and make this work, and I'd very much like the playground's feedback. And of course, other ideas are more than welcome. :D


Rules of the race:

- standard issue wooden cart (by Halfling standards ofc)
- cart is pulled by an adult goat, which cannot be (magically) physically manipulated to increase in size or have 6 legs or whatever abomination
- cart must be driven by a Halfling (although official exception has been made for the Bugbear)

It's a friendly race through the city streets, which means that while a little bit of cheating might occur, there's no PvP-style cart bashing or sabotaging or whathaveyou.


Race setup:

The race course is represented by a track running from 1-100, with small figurines moving along it. First racer to reach 100 wins.

Each round, players get to move along the track a number determined by 2 things:

- speed of the goat (base speed of 4)
- modifier determined by a d20, with land vehicle proficiency added if applicable (1-5 = 1, 6-10 = 2, 11-15 = 3, 16-20 = 4)

This should mean that a race would need a minimum of 10-11 rounds to reach the finish line, but likely more depending on how the speed adjustment goes and how well they roll. I'm worried this might take too long - if need be, I could lower the track to 50.

DM will roll for all other racers at once with a handful of d20s. Currently thinking about 6 opponents, so a total of 8 participants - think that's a decent amount considering it's a large city-state and Halflings are the city's second-largest ethnic group, right after Humans? I don't want to bog it too much, hence rolling them all at once.


Possible obstacles:



situation
resolve
result


other racer bangs cart against yours
roll STR to keep the cart upright (DC10)
possible damage to cart [1]


cobblestone road causes the cart to bounce
roll DEX to remain seated (DC10)
possible damage to cart [1]


goat slows down (20% chance, 1-2 on d10)
roll Animal Handling to speed it up (DC10)
goat speed will change [2]


goat is distracted by produce along the route
roll Animal Handling to keep it focused (DC15)
goat speed will change [2]



[1] if DC is not met, then DM rolls d20 against cart AC. If hit, cart takes 1d4 damage.
[2] if DC is not met, goat speed will decrease. If DC is met, goat speed will increase. Might go for additional adjustment if difference with DC is more than 5.


Wooden Cart:

AC: 15
hp: 20
on hit: 1d4 damage

[Darc_Vader]

I’d start with maybe +2 Str and +1 Con, along with a variation on the Goliath feature to increase carrying capacity, though I’m not sure why anyone would pick a Cart as their race.

In all seriousness, I’d definitely reduce the length of the track, since with a max speed of 8 (depending on how the speed increasing checks work) it will take at least 13 rounds, and a min speed of 5 means up to 20 (or more if they can lose speed).

I’d also say that while I think 6-8 other racers seems a bit low narratively imo, any more than that will likely bog it down so 5-8 is probably around the sweet spot.

[Maelynn]

Yes, I'm still working out the speed increment thing. I want to give them an opportunity to roll Animal Handling checks for an increase in the goat's speed, but there has to be a risk involved that becomes bigger with each attempt. Also not sure what the backlash would be.

Any idea for extra obstacles?

[Darc_Vader]

Yes, I'm still working out the speed increment thing. I want to give them an opportunity to roll Animal Handling checks for an increase in the goat's speed, but there has to be a risk involved that becomes bigger with each attempt. Also not sure what the backlash would be.

Any idea for extra obstacles?

Maybe onlookers throw things or otherwise try to distract them because they want their favourite to win.

[Arial Black]

Q: How to set up a Cart race?

A: So, instead of choosing 'elf' or 'dwarf' or 'human' for your race, you can choose 'cart' as your race?

Oh, no, right, I see what you did there! :smallsmile:

[Crgaston]

Yes, I'm still working out the speed increment thing. I want to give them an opportunity to roll Animal Handling checks for an increase in the goat's speed, but there has to be a risk involved that becomes bigger with each attempt. Also not sure what the backlash would be.

Any idea for extra obstacles?

Maybe CON checks for the goats when they exceed their normal move, and Disadvantage on the next check if they fail?

[Maelynn]

Maybe CON checks for the goats when they exceed their normal move, and Disadvantage on the next check if they fail?

Oh, a CON check for the goat is a good idea. Is this what you had in mind?

Players state they want to speed up, and by what amount (in order to set DC and consequences of failure). If the roll goes well enough, speed will increase more than stated

4 speed: base, no CON check
5 speed: CON check (DC10), drop to 4 if fail
6 speed: CON check (DC15), drop to 5 if fail <5, drop to 4 if fail <10, all fails give disadvantage on next check
7 speed: CON check (DC20), drop to 6 if fail <5, drop to 5 if fail <10, drop to 4 if fail <15, all fails give disadvantage on next check
8 speed: max, only attainable when a nat 20 is rolled on any CON check, lasts for 1 round and then drop to 4 with disadvantage for 2 rounds

Animal Handling check (DC10) is a modifier to goat's CON check:
1 - 5 : -2 on CON check
6 - 9 : -1 on CON check
10 : no modifier
11-15 : +1 on CON check
16-20 : +2 on CON check

Example: player states they want to speed up from 4 to 5. Player rolls 12 on Animal Handling. The goat rolls 15(16), DC is met and surpassed. Result: speed goes up to 6.
Example: player states they want to speed up to 6 to 7. Player rolls 17 on Animal Handling. The goat rolls 9(11), DC is not met. Result: speed drops to 5 and disadvantage on next check.

Is this a decent gamble, or do some of the penalties create discouragement?

[Crgaston]

That looks about like what I had in mind. I don't think it discourages the use, as there's no penalty for only using the 4 move. Players will have to use this mechanic if they want to win. Having the 2 rolls affect each other will create some tension and excitement. I think 2 rounds of disadvantage after a Nat 20 is too much. One would be fine.

[Sigreid]

I think I would do it as a series of land vehicle tool checks.

[Darc_Vader]

I think I would do it as a series of land vehicle tool checks.

Oh right, that’s a thing that exists. Yeah, I think it would be a good idea to work that in too.

[Bjarkmundur]

Although I do applaud your effort, I'm think I have to be 'that' guy and ask, who so complicated?
If the design goals are
Immerse the players
Let the players participate
Let the players overcome challenges
Narrate the race with appropriate dramatic high-stake moments

Have you thought about using the 4e skill challenge system?

It's a system where you basically narrate an exciting movie action scene, and at key increments present each player with a problem. That player can then use an ability check to overcome the obstacle, or fall behind because of it.
If a player overcomes enough obstacles, he is surely in the lead.
If a player succumbs to too many obstacles, he is surely placing last.

Each round you move the peaces down the track, and present the player with a problem. On fail, the player remains where he is. On success, he moves half the distance traveled more. Even if the pieces aren't at the "end of the track" when someone hits your target number of successes, you are the DM. You can close the scene however and whenever you want. You simply narrate how that person whooshes past everyone and the race is over moments later. The pieces are there to keep the player's attention, you are still playing DnD. For example when a round ends with one player with 2 more successes than the racer behind him, the race is over.

The rounds go by faster of multiple players face the same challenge, but a single round with individual challenges might give you a chance to include some additional skills.

DM: Moves all the carts 2 squares forward.
"The whistle blows and the race is on! You are neck-to-neck the first half of the race, and it's going to be real close. But what's this!? There has been an unexpected change in the track that causes it to veer right without warning. How do you save yourself from crashing!?"
PC 1: Can I roll a perception check to see the turn just in time?
DM: Yes, roll for it!
PC 1: 15
DM: You see the turn just in time, and move through it without problem. You get to move forward one extra square.
PC 2: Can I make a dexterity check to turn my goat as soon as I see the turn?
DM: Yes!
PC 2: Can I apply my proficiency modifier since I'm trained in Animal Handling?
DM: Yes, roll for it!
PC 2: 9, dang it!
DM: You do not manage to steer your goat in time, and move awkwardly through the turn. You do not get to move forward an extra square. For the other racers... *rolls dice behind the screen* oh no! A critical failure, NPC1 is out of the race! The other two are right behind you PC2! NEXT ROUND! After the turn there is a straight section, and all racers move 2 squares down the track. PC 1 is surely in the lead! But what's this! *moves to the next challenge*

Repeat this two more times, and the one in the lead is the winner.

[Maelynn]

I think 2 rounds of disadvantage after a Nat 20 is too much. One would be fine.

You're right. Dropping speed to 4 is already a penalty depending what your speed before 8 was, so 1 disadvantage is more than enough. I might even forego the disadvantage completely, so as to keep the nature of how awesome rolling a nat20 in D&D is. Not sure yet.


I think I would do it as a series of land vehicle tool checks.

I have that incorporated into the modifier. One player has that proficiency while the other doesn't, so while I do want to include it I don't want to give it too much power. By limiting it to land vehicle checks I'd give one player way too much of a benefit over the other.


I'm think I have to be 'that' guy and ask, who so complicated?

First off, I don't mind 'that guy' as it's still valuable feedback. It forces me to think about my choices and will either change my mind or reinforce it with good arguments. :)

Anyway. I didn't really think of it as complicated, but I do want to make sure that a couple of things are included. One player has land vehicle proficiency, but the other wants to focus on the goat with Animal Friendship - I want them both to have viable chances to win with their chosen method, without giving either of them too much of a bonus.

I suspect I started to think of it as a mini-boardgame rather than a simple D&D set of checks. Both players enjoy them (as do I), and I know one of them dislikes luck-based games and prefers strategy. By adding the gambling option I hope to make it less dependent on a lucky die roll and allow for some calculated risk-taking. Still not a lot of strategy, I know, but there's no way I can get that in without making it a stand-alone game. ^^'


Have you thought about using the 4e skill challenge system?

I didn't, no, so thanks for the summary. Looking at it though, I don't really believe my version is that much more complicated. The main difference is that it focuses more on obstacles than speed control - which is an aspect I want in. Give the players some control over how fast they're going, like a true race - not an obstacle course. If that makes it more complicated, then it's a trade-off I'm very content with.

Giving players the chance to use skills to manipulate the die roll is a good idea, I'll tell the players they have that option. Like, a good Perception check could allow a player to see the cobbles ahead and stand up slightly in his seat, giving him a +1 on the Dex check to remain 'seated'. This would give them more control over the results.


Example of a round

* players roll a d20 to determine the modifier (1 to 4)

+ land vehicle proficiency
+ any modifier granted by successfully used skills

* this modifier is added to the goat's speed to determine movement for this round

optional - speed increase

* players roll an Animal Handling check to determine the modifier (-2 to +2)

* CON check is rolled for the goat to see if/how speed is modified

+ Animal Handling modifier

* result sets goat's speed for next round

optional - obstacle

* DM determines if/what obstacle happens from list and presents it to players

* players roll associated check to see if they can overcome it

+ possible +1 per appropriate ability, if check succeeds

* result will affect speed or cart hp

[Bjarkmundur]

Both players enjoy them (as do I)

If you and your players have done mini-boardgames before, and liked it, that's arguement enough, I now relinquish my title of 'that guy'. Now, I must go, to other threads to give new perspective and help people think critically.

Goodbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Sigreid]

I have that incorporated into the modifier. One player has that proficiency while the other doesn't, so while I do want to include it I don't want to give it too much power. By limiting it to land vehicle checks I'd give one player way too much of a benefit over the other.



I personally think that land vehicle proficiency should be a huge advantage. Among other things, it's not like it's going to come up as useful all that often in most campaigns. That said, sounds like you got a system you want to use. Go for it.

[Maelynn]

Last night we had the session with the cart race. I didn't expect it to take almost the entire 4-hour session, but they really took it to the next level. The Halfling decided not to race because he returned from his downtime only the day before the festival, so instead he was going to help his Bugbear buddy. Anything to keep that annoying bugger Alton from winning a third time.

The party worked together, all night and the morning before the race (which was set halfway through the afternoon), trying to pimp the ride and make the rider as aerodynamic as possible. I can assure you it was quite the mental image, involving tight leather trousers and lots of grease and shaved hands/arms and a Hulk Hogan style bandana to tie the ears back...
The Wizard dove into the library to research aerodynamics, the Monk used her woodcarving skills to give the cart some smoother edges and carvings that would speed it up, they used Speak with Animals to try and persuade the goat to run even harder... it was the epitome of teamwork. I loved how they used all their 'not important for combat or most social interactions' skills for this.

I asked the player who didn't participate to roll for Alton, I myself made simplified rolls for the other 4 contestants, and the other 2 players got to roll the goats's CON checks for the riders so they'd be involved as well.

It was a very exciting race, with Alton in the lead for about half the course... but then the Bugbear managed to roll a 20 on a check to keep his goat in line (there was a guy with fresh cabbage standing along the track, causing the goat to head for the crowd) so he got a speed boost that made him finish just before Alton.

It was epic.

Afterthought:
The only thing that didn't really go well was calculating the movement for the opponents. I tried to mimic the goat's speed with a d8, but their odds of getting 7-8 speed were much higher than those of the players. I ended up winging the results, not desirable but no better option. Luckily the player rolling for Alton did very well, so it was still a very exciting 'battle', but if I ever want to do it again - or let someone else use it - then I'll need to figure something out for the opponent rolls.

[Bobthewizard]

I ran this in my campaign and it worked great! The players loved it. Thanks for the idea.

I simplified it a little and dropped it into the free Bridgepuddle adventure (Google D&D 5e Bridgepuddle). We are mostly running adventures from Yawning Portal spread out over Faerun as part of a larger plot. I substituted Bridgepuddle in for Blassingdale after Forge of Fury. They spent one day exploring the town, one day on the festival where they competed against the townspeople (I added Archery, Foot Race, Wrestling, and a Cantrip Can Challenge with similar simple rules), and then one day rescuing all their new friends. Here are the rules I used and the opponents from Bridgepuddle.

GOAT CART RACE

Tyler, Halfling female +1 cheerful and restless (from 44)
Anne, Halfling male +1 anxious and idle (from 44)
Patches, Gnome male +5 arrogant, fearless and resourceful, has won the last 4 years (from 43)

Ride in wooden cart pulled by a goat, which cannot be (magically) physically manipulated to increase in size or have 6 legs or whatever abomination. Cart only fits a small creature.

100 yard course (300’) through the festival. First to 300’. Highest total after the last round wins

Each round, move speed of the goat (base speed + dash for 60) + d20 + animal handling skill

Obstacles: One round clear, then add 3 obstacles, then one round with double modifier. For each obstacle, if they failed, they lost 10' of movement that round.

2. racers bang into each other, roll STR to keep the cart upright (DC10)
3. cobblestone road causes the cart to bounce, roll DEX to remain seated (DC10)
4. goat is distracted by produce along the route, roll Animal Handling to speed it up (DC10)

At turn where someone crosses the finish line, highest total wins.

If anyone's interested, here are the additional games I added. Some of the opponents are from the original adventure, some I made up and added.

ARCHERY

Raviel, High Elf female +4, popular, thoughtless (from High Forest) at 30
Turtledove, Halfling male +2 charming and egotistical (at 44)
Sturvilla, Human female +2, sensitive and entitled (Town Guard Captain at 22)
Moe, Human male +5 blunt, physically intimidating but friendly (Town Guard at 22)

5 Rounds. 1 shot each round. Total to hit less 10 is your score. 15 is a bullseye.
Critical hit is a center bullseye and is worth 25 points. Highest score wins


WRESTLING (this one worked least well because the Barbarian raged and won too easily)

Markus, Human male +3, reluctant, arrogant (at 34)
Dalnus, Dwarf male +8, happy and enthusiastic (at 32)
(vs. Og, Half-Orc male) elitist and hostile (at 36)

ATH checks each turn. Success by >3 is +1. takedown (+1) then move (+2), then pin (+3).
If down, success means minus 1. Escape at zero.
Two points for takedown, one for escape, pin for the win. Ends at 10 rounds, unless tied


FOOT RACE

Virran, wood elf male +4 (35’) diplomatic and extroverted (scouts for wood elf tribe) (at 11)
Helkas, wood elf female +4 (35’) well-mannered, friendly (at 11)
Jemun, human male +3 (30’) courageous and quiet (at 8)
Top Card, tabaxi male +3 (30’ + double speed first round) distracted, charming, flirts (wanderer) at 30

100 yard dash. Move + Dash +d20 + acrobatics. First to 300’. Highest at end of last round wins


CANTRIP CAN CHALLENGE

Archie, Human male wizard with Ray of Frost +5, quiet, respectful and mature (at 18)
Kelqen, Eladrin elf Warlock with Eldritch Blast +5, enthusiastic, emotional, dramatic (ambassador, at 30)
If he loses, Kelgen goes from Autumn to Summer (angry) to winter (cries, accuses you of cheating)

5 cans each lined up on a railing 50’ away. 5 shots to see how many you knock off. AC 14.
Critical hits can into another, knocking 2 off. Critical fail knocks off an opponents’ can