A better 4 Elements Monk?

[TheExplosiveRog]

I'm just curious, I've heard 4eMonk isn't that strong. Does anyone have ways to improve it?

[ad_hoc]

The Sun Soul is the reworked 4Elements imo.

[Kane0]

There are a couple ways to do it, it comes down to what you want to do. Some settle for the quick and dirty extra Ki, some get more in depth with the same concept but only for elemental powers (which they may or may not grant more of), some rework the whole thing.

For reference, here's what I'm testing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22979643&postcount=3).

[ShadowSandbag]

The big thing I usually see is making abilities cost less Ki and giving some abilities that don't cost any ki to use.

[BarneyBent]

One of my players is currently playtesting this version: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/35yn4u/way_of_the_four_elements_remastered_a/

Haven’t had much chance to see it in action yet, and it will be a bit different because he’s multiclassed as a level 1 Wild Magic Sorcerer (his 4 elements abilities will work like sorcerer spells for the purposes of Wild Magic), but so far it seems pretty good.

[Desteplo]

Ki +wis
-1ki cost
+1 ability per threshold
Start with 4, can swap 1 as you level

And yeah, a bunch of reworks
But 4e monks they’re great! After like lvl9ish
-before then they struggle with the ki cost. They’re a Nova monk.

While others focus on utility or defense, 4e does everything it can to burst its damage

They function like a 1/2 or 1/3 caster warlock (depending how you see it) they’re short rest dependent for their spells. But they have a bunch of monk stuff regardless of their spells

You’ll cast 1 spell until around lvl9 where you have enough to cast maybe two? Really dependent on the moment. But that’s the point. Sometimes you’ll need to hold person on multiple guys, or firesnakes for an additional 4d10 to burn/smite someone down. Other times stunning fist (most ki efficient) does the job but not always the best action

It adds choice. But as rangers have it. Choice isn’t a feature for most people

I’ve played multiple 4e monks and and rangers have enjoyed everything about it. But to me choice IS a feature.

You are the only monk that could create physical walls of ice, fly, pull/push from a distance and burst

Dig deep into what makes your 4e monk unique. Are you water? Pick up the 1ki cost ability, it’s actually really good, just add water

Are you wind? Hold person is very good and cheap as you upcast

Are you fire? You have area attacks starting st lvl3

Earth? Pick up magic initiate for shileighly, you are the under appreciated element but you can still flavor your stuff. “Shatter” = earthquake

You are a monk with evocation and transmutation spells. You are unique

[Spectrulus]

One of my players is currently playtesting this version: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/35yn4u/way_of_the_four_elements_remastered_a/

Haven’t had much chance to see it in action yet...

I have a player who is using this one, it feels right, the ki costs are reasonable, and they doesn't outshine any other player. Would definitely recommend.

[djreynolds]

I'm just curious, I've heard 4eMonk isn't that strong. Does anyone have ways to improve it?

You need to actually play one IMO, most of the time you are a monk spending your KI on FOB and stunning fist.

Occasionally you will find an opportunity to shine with your four elements stuff

Short rest when possible, please you a short bow as you have a high dexterity and it helps to soften up the enemy

[MrStabby]

Whilst I seem to be in a minority for this, I think the biggest issue with the 4E monk is that the abilities you get are spells (not exclusively) and you get them later than other casters. So fireball is cool and all at level 5, less so when the monk gets it.

Classes like arcane trickster and eldritch knight suffer a little in the same way but have some advantages: mainly a broader pool of spells so they can select spells that don't need an action in combat to use so they can do shield AND use the attack action. Too few spells actually let the 4E do something new - if they want to do damage they have a whole bundle of core monk abilities for that. It is the non damage elements that are lacking.

For me to even consider the subclass they would need somethings unique and to not be getting them later than everyone else in the party. Limited Ki points are OK as long as they do something sufficiently cool to justify it.

[Vulsutyr]

I'm just curious, I've heard 4eMonk isn't that strong. Does anyone have ways to improve it?

This is a 5th edition subforum you know. If you want 4e advice we have a section for that.

[NaughtyTiger]

This is a 5th edition subforum you know. If you want 4e advice we have a section for that.

Everytime someone says 4E monk, this is my first thought...

[Vogie]

This is a 5th edition subforum you know. If you want 4e advice we have a section for that.

Clearly they should've created a 5 Elements monk. Where are their heart powers?

[MrStabby]

Clearly they should've created a 5 Elements monk. Where are their heart powers?

I thought open hand was the quintessential monk?

[Zuras]

Whilst I seem to be in a minority for this, I think the biggest issue with the 4E monk is that the abilities you get are spells (not exclusively) and you get them later than other casters. So fireball is cool and all at level 5, less so when the monk gets it.

Classes like arcane trickster and eldritch knight suffer a little in the same way but have some advantages: mainly a broader pool of spells so they can select spells that don't need an action in combat to use so they can do shield AND use the attack action. Too few spells actually let the 4E do something new - if they want to do damage they have a whole bundle of core monk abilities for that. It is the non damage elements that are lacking.

For me to even consider the subclass they would need somethings unique and to not be getting them later than everyone else in the party. Limited Ki points are OK as long as they do something sufficiently cool to justify it.


The key issue is that their extra “cool subclass stuff” that they get uses the same pool of resources as their main class features. This means that the extra stuff they get is mainly versatility, until around Tier 3, when they have enough ki to cast a spell and use normal amounts of ki for at least one fight, which gives them a short rest nova capability.

They either needed a separate resource pool, additional ki (perhaps just for powering spells), always on abilities (like cantrips or the psychic focus options of the mystic UA), and/or features allowing your lower level abilities to synergize with Monk stuff you would be doing anyway.

The EK and AT are fun to play because they have low level spells that play very differently on a non-wizard chassis. Shield when your AC is already 20, or Disguise Self when you have expertise in deception let you do things impossible for a wizard of similar level, even if you have 1/3 of their spell progression.

Honestly, just giving 4e Monks something like the EK’s War Magic and some cantrips would help. Your problem is that you’re trying to play a 1/2 caster warlock but don’t get any invocations or Eldritch Blast.