(Path of war) Bushi - Landsknecht Level 15

[Nosta]

I am wondering what is a better fit for a Fallen samurai (LE) Themed path of war character

I Want to be very Mobile and sling out the AoO like they where going out of style

so I am curious would

Bushi- Warlord 5 / Landsknecht 10 Be good or should I go

Bushi - Warder 5 Landsknecht 10 what one works better.?

I plan to focus on Mithral current so I really want to keep the Bushi template

[Battleship789]

Warder tends to be the superior option for an AoO build, though what do you wish to do with the AoO's you will be slinging out? Damage via Mithral Current? Combat maneuvers to protect allies/inhibit foes (tripping and dirty tricks are generally the two best options if you decide to go that route)?

I'm thinking Warder (Bushi) 6/Landsknecht 10 might be an option instead of 5 levels of Warder, as Bushi 6 gives you the Mixed Combat feat (synergizes nicely with Mithral Current), an additional Bushido choice, and Warder 6 increases the range of Aegis to 20 ft. Landsknecht 1 is pretty great, though. Not sure if it is worth delaying for the bonuses listed above.

Warder also allows you to dump Dexterity, as Combat Reflexes will key off your Intelligence due to Defensive Focus. Thus, your main stats will be Str, Con, and Int.

Assuming you stick with the Katana, I'd go for Mithral Current, Primal Fury, Eternal Guardian, Iron Tortoise, and Golden Lion as disciplines (consider trading out Golden Lion for Riven Hourglass or Scarlet Throne via the Unorthodox Method trait for a bit more mobility.)

Wait, are you starting at 15th level?

[Nosta]

Warder tends to be the superior option for an AoO build, though what do you wish to do with the AoO's you will be slinging out? Damage via Mithral Current? Combat maneuvers to protect allies/inhibit foes (tripping and dirty tricks are generally the two best options if you decide to go that route)?

I'm thinking Warder (Bushi) 6/Landsknecht 10 might be an option instead of 5 levels of Warder, as Bushi 6 gives you the Mixed Combat feat (synergizes nicely with Mithral Current), an additional Bushido choice, and Warder 6 increases the range of Aegis to 20 ft. Landsknecht 1 is pretty great, though. Not sure if it is worth delaying for the bonuses listed above.

Warder also allows you to dump Dexterity, as Combat Reflexes will key off your Intelligence due to Defensive Focus. Thus, your main stats will be Str, Con, and Int.

Assuming you stick with the Katana, I'd go for Mithral Current, Primal Fury, Eternal Guardian, Iron Tortoise, and Golden Lion as disciplines (consider trading out Golden Lion for Riven Hourglass or Scarlet Throne via the Unorthodox Method trait for a bit more mobility.)

Wait, are you starting at 15th level?


Yep level 15

[upho]

Warder tends to be the superior option for an AoO build, though what do you wish to do with the AoO's you will be slinging out? Damage via Mithral Current? Combat maneuvers to protect allies/inhibit foes (tripping and dirty tricks are generally the two best options if you decide to go that route)?This.

What are your thoughts on this, Nosta?


I'm thinking Warder (Bushi) 6/Landsknecht 10 might be an option instead of 5 levels of Warder, as Bushi 6 gives you the Mixed Combat feat (synergizes nicely with Mithral Current), an additional Bushido choice, and Warder 6 increases the range of Aegis to 20 ft. Landsknecht 1 is pretty great, though. Not sure if it is worth delaying for the bonuses listed above.Since he's actually starting at 15th, I can't think of anything worth delaying Stance of Assured Victory. That thing is simply insane, especially in a melee oriented party.


Warder also allows you to dump Dexterity, as Combat Reflexes will key off your Intelligence due to Defensive Focus. Thus, your main stats will be Str, Con, and Int.And you also get Combat Reflexes for free.

But regardless of your starting class, from a pure optimization perspective, the one thing more important than virtually everything else is going to be your melee reach. In order to maximize that, you really want two things:

a reach weapon you can wield in one hand, which means you're limited to very few weapon options. Most likely, you'll need the Pikeman's Training feat which in turn will cut you off from using Scarlet Throne. There may also be an option to take the Bladed Brush (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bladed-brush-combat/) feat instead, in case your setting/GM allows it (it also opens up for going with a Dex based warlord, but that's not recommended without Magnitude Shift (and the Formless Master PrC) due to the size increase compatibility issues). Although it requires you to wield a glaive, which would need a bit of reflavoring to suit with the samurai theme, but thankfully a polearm would go at least as well as the katana.
easy access to the fantastic metamorphosis for up to two size increases. If you don't have a manifester with access to this power in the party (only the egoist psion gets it by default), it typically means you'll have to get it in a dorje you use yourself via an UMD of at least +19. Which in turn means you'll either want to go Dex warlord with a Cha IM, or warder with the Pragmatic Activator trait, allowing you to use Int for UMD.


Together with the Landsknecht 4th level feature, a Large size race (tiger catfolk, aasimar/skinwalker/tiefling of gamla or tiger catfolk heritage), Haft Strike and long arm, the above can give you Gargantuan size and a reach of up to a whopping 60 ft radius (more with items).

However, going full out bananas with reach like this is definitely not recommended unless you play in a high-op game. So take it easy if you go this route.

HTH!

[Kris Moonhand]

a reach weapon you can wield in one hand, which means you're limited to very few weapon options. Most likely, you'll need the Pikeman's Training feat which in turn will cut you off from using Scarlet Throne. There may also be an option to take the Bladed Brush (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bladed-brush-combat/) feat instead, in case your setting/GM allows it (it also opens up for going with a Dex based warlord, but that's not recommended without Magnitude Shift (and the Formless Master PrC) due to the size increase compatibility issues). Although it requires you to wield a glaive, which would need a bit of reflavoring to suit with the samurai theme, but thankfully a polearm would go at least as well as the katana.
easy access to the fantastic metamorphosis for up to two size increases. If you don't have a manifester with access to this power in the party (only the egoist psion gets it by default), it typically means you'll have to get it in a dorje you use yourself via an UMD of at least +19. Which in turn means you'll either want to go Dex warlord with a Cha IM, or warder with the Pragmatic Activator trait, allowing you to use Int for UMD.


You could use the Polearm Dancer (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Polearm_Dancer) feat instead of Bladed Brush. It's easier to qualify for (doesn't have a feat or fluff prereq) and allows lots of different weapons instead of just the glaive.

Karak's expansion (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Expansion%2C_Karak%E2%80%99s) can also give you two size increases for a significantly longer period of time (10 min/lvl vs 1 min/lvl) but it would require a minimum ML 9 dorje. The minimum ML for metamorphosis (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Metamorphosis#Metamorphosis) is ML 5, and for the same cost as the ML 9 Karak's expansion dorje you could get two additional Menu B options, like Fast Healing 2 and a +4 bonus to one of your physical stats. It's a bit of a tossup. Of course, if you have a manifester with Shared Power it doesn't really matter, as they can get both. They'd need a feat, though. Metamorphosis is only on the Egoist and Voyager list, and Karak's expansion is only on the Gifted Blade, Psychic Warrior, and Highlord list.

I'd also like to point out, if you're going a full AoO-based build, picking up Fool's Errand (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fool's_Errand) is a good idea. Warders synergize especially well with its lock mechanic, and keeping enemies inside your zone of control where they can't get to your allies is great.

[upho]

You could use the Polearm Dancer (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Polearm_Dancer) feat instead of Bladed Brush. It's easier to qualify for (doesn't have a feat or fluff prereq) and allows lots of different weapons instead of just the glaive.Ah, but the point isn't to get a polearm Dex based. It's to be able to wield a reach weapon in one hand for the Landsknecht features.


Karak's expansion (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Expansion%2C_Karak%E2%80%99s) can also give you two size increases for a significantly longer period of time (10 min/lvl vs 1 min/lvl) but it would require a minimum ML 9 dorje. The minimum ML for metamorphosis (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Metamorphosis#Metamorphosis) is ML 5, and for the same cost as the ML 9 Karak's expansion dorje you could get two additional Menu B options, like Fast Healing 2 and a +4 bonus to one of your physical stats. It's a bit of a tossup.Completely missed this power, thanks! At least if you're primarily looking for the two size increases in a dorje, it's definitely a better deal than metamorphosis; 6,750 gp for 90 minutes vs a minimum of 11,250 gp for a mere 5 minutes with metamorphosis.


I'd also like to point out, if you're going a full AoO-based build, picking up Fool's Errand (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fool's_Errand) is a good idea. Warders synergize especially well with its lock mechanic, and keeping enemies inside your zone of control where they can't get to your allies is great.I second this. Fool's Errand is really nice for both control and mobility, especially if you're going Str based. And some of the higher level boosts are just fantastic and hilarious in play. Just keep in mind that most of the "lock on attack/AoO" stuff only work on adjacent enemies.

[exelsisxax]

If you go Fiendbound Marauder you can TWF light reach weapons with the grab property and no minimum range. It's pretty neat.

[Elricaltovilla]

You could use the Polearm Dancer (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Polearm_Dancer) feat instead of Bladed Brush. It's easier to qualify for (doesn't have a feat or fluff prereq) and allows lots of different weapons instead of just the glaive.



That 1 rank of Perform (Dance) prerequisite that Polearm Dancer has is basically there because it reinforces the joke. So it might not have a fluff prerequisite, but it does have a pun prerequisite.

[Kris Moonhand]

Completely missed this power, thanks! At least if you're primarily looking for the two size increases in a dorje, it's definitely a better deal than metamorphosis; 6,750 gp for 90 minutes vs a minimum of 11,250 gp for a mere 5 minutes with metamorphosis.
Oh yeah, I forgot to factor in that one is a level 1 power and the other is level 3. DOY!

I second this. Fool's Errand is really nice for both control and mobility, especially if you're going Str based. And some of the higher level boosts are just fantastic and hilarious in play. Just keep in mind that most of the "lock on attack/AoO" stuff only work on adjacent enemies.
*looks at to the skies and lightning strikes twice*


That 1 rank of Perform (Dance) prerequisite that Polearm Dancer has is basically there because it reinforces the joke. So it might not have a fluff prerequisite, but it does have a pun prerequisite.

... I completely missed this somehow. I figured it had Perform (dance) because it was a Mithral Current flavored feat.

[Elricaltovilla]

... I completely missed this somehow. I figured it had Perform (dance) because it was a Mithral Current flavored feat.

Well, the feat name is the more obvious joke. The skill requirement was related to mithral current, but I put it in there mostly because if the feat is called Polearm Dancer, it would not make sense for it to be used by someone who could not dance.

[upho]

*looks at to the skies and lightning strikes twice*Don't forget Finger of God...


Well, the feat name is the more obvious joke. The skill requirement was related to mithral current, but I put it in there mostly because if the feat is called Polearm Dancer, it would not make sense for it to be used by someone who could not dance.I remember I was a bit surprised it didn't also require you to wear an armor type which can be quickly removed (like say armored coat)... :smalltongue:

That's so gonna be a house rule in my games from now on.

[Elricaltovilla]

I remember I was a bit surprised it didn't also require you to wear an armor type which can be quickly removed (like say armored coat)... :smalltongue:

That's so gonna be a house rule in my games from now on.

I remember getting yelled at a bunch for that feat for all sorts of different reasons, but strangely that wasn't one from the playtest threads.