[3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

[Thurbane]

So, just curious: what are you favorite obscure things in 3.5? PrCs, feats, spells, items, races etc.

I thought this might be a good chance to unearth some forgotten gems.

Cheers - T



prc
Cold Iron Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a) - it's not great, but I like the flavor

feat
Corrupt Arcane Studies - +1 to DC and to overcome SR. If you can avoid the drawbacks, by being Kalashtar for instance, all the better.

spell
Leomund’s Billet - for miltary type games, or large parties.

item
Ring of Theurgy - a (temporary) extra spell known for spontaneous casters.

race
Io-Rach Goblin - awful stats, but something I only became aware of recently.

[Venger]

So, just curious: what are you favorite obscure things in 3.5? PrCs, feats, spells, items, races etc.

I thought this might be a good chance to unearth some forgotten gems.

Cheers - T

This'll be fun:

prc
jaunter (demonweb) is a fun class useful for anything that requires the spring attack line

feat
ocular spell: one of the few metamagic feats that doesn't need another as tax. fun and interesting for a lot of characters

spell
murderous mist: bfc, damage, and status all in one. since it's a ref save, I like to use it on constructs and undead, who lack a blanket immunity to permanent blindness

bind to hell: for enemies such as liches who have annoying habits of resurrecting themselves

cloak of khyber: disguise that trumps true seeing

item
ring of anticipation (dotu) +2 competence on listen/spot and when rolling init, roll twice and take the better result
ring of spell-battle (mic): id enemy spells and redirect them 1/day

race
muckdweller (sk) good to be tiny

misc
skilled city dweller is really good at qualifying for things, letting you trade a variety of crappy skills in for good ones.

will add as they come to me

[ElderDarren]

Candle Caster from Tome and Blood. Not so much for PC's because the cost is a bit of a pain. However I have played with having a madman wizard villain filling a church with candles of Fireball that he sets off with Prestidigitation. Candle Casters has a lot of nuke potential given all it takes to set their spells off is the lighting of a candle.

[Zaq]

One of my very favorite feats is Fell Conspiracy in Exemplars of Evil. Great party-wide benefits for very reasonable costs. How many feats can trivially give the entire party a +8 typeless bonus to Spot and Listen all day long for just 50 gp? That's assuming just a four-individual party, mind you.

Is the rod of ropes obscure? It's in Complete Scoundrel, which isn't exactly super hidden, but it's also not quite a go-to for items. I love it because it is a hookshot. Who doesn't want a hookshot?

[Buufreak]

I have always had a silly love for fiendbinder. It feels like the real pet class for me, as far as 3.x goes, even outpacing druid/beastmaster in my eyes. Gives me that good diablo 2 army necro feel.

[Stevesciguy]

Ooh, fun idea.

I've only got a PrC for now:

Swiftblade. Not sure how obscure it is, but it's an online class so I'm counting it. I'm a gish addict, and this is a fantastic class for that, ranking just a hint below Abjurant Champion in how well it gishes in my book. In terms of flavor and fun mechanics, it's probably top of my list.

[Aegis013]

Prestige Class:
Elemental Scion of Zilargo from Magic of Eberron. The 7th level Elemental Merge feature is the draw, when used in conjunction with Water Devotion, you can basically wear Water Elementals like power armor, making you nigh invulnerable if you have the right set up.

The difficulty is making it substantially stronger than the stock water elemental.

[tyckspoon]

One of my very favorite feats is Fell Conspiracy in Exemplars of Evil. Great party-wide benefits for very reasonable costs. How many feats can trivially give the entire party a +8 typeless bonus to Spot and Listen all day long for just 50 gp? That's assuming just a four-individual party, mind you.


Don't forget any familiars, animal companions, or other pets/followers! The other options you get from this feat are also pretty cool - Message at-will (doesn't require costly component and doesn't appear to be restricted to the other members of your Conspiracy) and practical immunity to being flat-footed and flanked. You only suffer those conditions if every member of your conspiracy is, which is generally going to be quite hard to pull off.

[Zaq]

Don't forget any familiars, animal companions, or other pets/followers! The other options you get from this feat are also pretty cool - Message at-will (doesn't require costly component and doesn't appear to be restricted to the other members of your Conspiracy) and practical immunity to being flat-footed and flanked. You only suffer those conditions if every member of your conspiracy is, which is generally going to be quite hard to pull off.

Yup, that’s why I said “trivially.” You start getting non-humanoids in on the fun and things escalate darned quickly. But you can get the +8 in most parties without doing anything that’s even slightly opposed to RAI.

[MisterKaws]

Obscure PrC: Knight of the Iron Glacier. It's the single best dip for a Paladin, and works nicely for a (Strongheart)Halfling Outrider Devoted Tracker ubermounter. You can easily get the Megaloceros to 25HD by level 15. Pretty feat-intensive, though.

[unseenmage]

The Ornithopter from Arms and Equipment Guide.

Create Crawling Claw from Magic of Faerun.

Crawling Claws from Lost Empires of Faerun.

Techsmith of Gond.

[The Viscount]

PrC: Elemental Archon from Faiths and Pantheons. The mephit underlings are a sweet deal, and I love the flavor on the abilities with them.

Feat: Hardened Criminal from City of Stormreach (how's that for obscure). Gain Skill Mastery in a single skill, and immunity to intimidate to boot.

Another Feat: Harvester of Souls from Elder Evils: A complete NPC feat, but there's something to be said for an ability you can gain at level 12 that can't be undone without 9th level spells.

Spell: Door of Decay from Complete Champion. An incredibly powerful and flavorful spell for anyone with an army of the undead, and makes a special exception to let Dread Necromancers take it.

Item: The Dastana and Chahar-Aina from Oriental Adventures. An additional +1 stacking armor bonus each for bargain-bin prices. Slap on masterwork to reduce the penalty and you've got an item any character with light armor can use.


One of my very favorite feats is Fell Conspiracy in Exemplars of Evil. Great party-wide benefits for very reasonable costs. How many feats can trivially give the entire party a +8 typeless bonus to Spot and Listen all day long for just 50 gp? That's assuming just a four-individual party, mind you.

Is the rod of ropes obscure? It's in Complete Scoundrel, which isn't exactly super hidden, but it's also not quite a go-to for items. I love it because it is a hookshot. Who doesn't want a hookshot?

I always found it interesting how Fell Conspiracy is framed as profane and wicked when all it does is foster teamwork and communication.

[daremetoidareyo]

Item: Clockwork mask of the mindflayer from legend of the silver skeleton page 21

Feats: charming the arrow from fey feature, cards over swords from that terrible marketing ploy

Race: brownie from one of the web thingies

I'm seconding jaunter. That class is cool

[Venger]

that's a great item. very economical.

I have to say liquid sunlight. buy a pearl once and never worry about illumination rules again.

[pabelfly]

An obscure item I really like is the Rod of Ropes (Complete Scoundrel). Costs 4000 gold, and you can use it as an extendable rope up to 300ft, a rope with a grappling hook that you can use to hook onto things or people, or a rope with a sliding tool on it.

[Thurbane]

Item: Clockwork mask of the mindflayer from legend of the silver skeleton page 21

that's a great item. very economical.

8,000gp gets you 4 natural attacks (as a standard action, no less), plus improved grab and extract! :smalleek:

[PoeticallyPsyco]

3rd party, but the Kingdoms of Kalamar book Salt & Sea Dogs has some awesome items and enhancements for building/customizing a ship, as well as templates like Ghost Ship that you can apply to an existing ship.

Actually, this next one is 3rd party too. BoEF gets a bad rap, but the races and templates it has are actually really good. My favorite is probably Giantborn. +2 LA, but gives you some pretty good stats, and you keep unlocking abilities as you level up, including permanently growing a size once you reach 10th level.

[Venger]

8,000gp gets you 4 natural attacks (as a standard action, no less), plus improved grab and extract! :smalleek:

next grappler I build, I'm buying that item. even if the size limit is hardcapped and doesn't scale with your size, it's more than worth it.

[Zaq]

Item: Clockwork mask of the mindflayer from legend of the silver skeleton page 21

Feats: charming the arrow from fey feature, cards over swords from that terrible marketing ploy

Race: brownie from one of the web thingies

I'm seconding jaunter. That class is cool

What the Baator is Legend of the Silver Skeleton?

[Divayth Fyr]

What the Baator is Legend of the Silver Skeleton?

An adventure. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20061017a)

[LordBlades]

PrC: Reforged (Races of Eberron). Mechanically it's 0retty bad, but I love the idea of the puppet who wanted to be a real boy :)

Race: Warforged Scout (MM3): everybody knows warforged, but way fewer people are familiar with its small sized brother

Feat: Rapid Spell (CD) normally it's pretty useless, but I love it for Summoner builds. Combined with any Metamagic reducers it allows you to get standard action summon spells.

Item: Psionic Tattoo of Ectoplasmic Form. For only 750 gp, you get a very potent escape item that, until very high level, most foes have no way to prevent.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

I'm thirding Jaunter. It's just amazing. And if you can get a template that grants Spring Attack, it's an easy way to get Teleportation + Plane Shift in an E6 game !

Although there are very few templates that grant Spring Attack. I used the Pathfinder Quickling template. Otherwise, you'll have to qualify by using an item and many GMs dislike that.

EDIT : Residual Magic is amazing.

[Saintheart]

Feat: Charming the Arrow (Fey Feature, Life in a Noble House (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a))

Use your CHA bonus in place of your DEX bonus on ranged attack rolls. Yes, you have to be Fey, but that's why you get Unseelie Fey as a LA +0 template.

[Anthrowhale]

The Hengeyokai, particularly the Hengeyokai Sparrow seems fun. I don't know any other way to play a fine size character at level 1. Fine size + dexterity gives you AC 24 and Hide+22. Also, you can carry very heavy items by lifting them off the ground and transforming into a sparrow so they are absorbed in your form. All of this for LA+0 under the 3.5 revision.

[ben-zayb]

Proteus: gives ridiculous versatility for prepared Shadowcraft Mages or even standard illusionist builds.
Even on many Shadowcraft Mage threads, this gem is barely mentioned despite how good it is.

[Troacctid]

Feat: Jungle Veteran. Allows you to always act during the surprise round. No prerequisites. Not an effect you usually see available at such a low cost.

Feat: Spawn of the Dark Prince. Not only does it give a whopping +10 to Bluff checks, it's also an Abyssal Heritor feat, which means you can get it from embrace the dark chaos without even having to do the full shuffle.

Spells: Boccob's rolling cloud. It's the same damage as fireball, but it's a cone instead of a spread, and the damage is evenly split between fire, electricity, positive energy, and negative energy, so it still interacts with fire-related stuff like Fiery Spell or Fiery Burst, but it isn't nerfed by one of the most common resistances in the game. Here's the kicker: anyone who fails their Reflex save for half damage also needs to make a Fortitude save or be dazed. Not too bad. "But spreads are easier to aim than cones, and what are the odds of them failing two saves in a row?" you might cry. Well, my friend, I have another underrated alternative for you: shockwave. It deals 1d4/level nonlethal force damage (max 10d4) in a 20 ft. radius, and anyone who fails a Fortitude save is dazed for a round. No energy resistance at all, and you can subdue enemies rather than killing them, and you get a save-or-suck on top of it all.

Spell: Shark bolt. Imagine scorching ray, except instead of flame rays, it's sharks. How cool is that.

Item: Chickens. Did you realize they're only 2 cp? That's 50 chickens for a single gold piece. Do you know how many monsters you can distract by throwing chickens at them? A lot of monsters, that's how many.

Item: Amber amulet of vermin. These things are wildly underpriced for their effect. Only 700 gp to drop a massive scorpion on your enemies' heads? A bargain.

Prestige class: Urban savant. Easy to get into, gives lots of skill points, full casting, and you can peek at the enemy's character sheet. One of the best arcane prestige classes around IMO, but I rarely see it mentioned.

Prestige class: Thrall of Fraz-Urb'luu. Have you seen that 10th level ability? It lets you turn an illusion into reality. That's free magic items with Nystul's magic aura right there. Plus it adds a bunch of illusion spells to your spell list, or, if you're a warlock, even better, gives them to you as SLAs, which means no material components for simulacrum and ice assassin.


I have always had a silly love for fiendbinder. It feels like the real pet class for me, as far as 3.x goes, even outpacing druid/beastmaster in my eyes. Gives me that good diablo 2 army necro feel.
The Dragon Magazine one or the Tome of Magic one?

[Cygnia]

A rogue in an online game I'm in loves his rod of ropes.

I played a spiker (Planar Handbook) that was kinda fun. Sadly, the game he was in died...

[Thurbane]

Feat: Jungle Veteran. Allows you to always act during the surprise round. No prerequisites. Not an effect you usually see available at such a low cost.

Feat: Spawn of the Dark Prince. Not only does it give a whopping +10 to Bluff checks, it's also an Abyssal Heritor feat, which means you can get it from embrace the dark chaos without even having to do the full shuffle.

Spells: Boccob's rolling cloud. It's the same damage as fireball, but it's a cone instead of a spread, and the damage is evenly split between fire, electricity, positive energy, and negative energy, so it still interacts with fire-related stuff like Fiery Spell or Fiery Burst, but it isn't nerfed by one of the most common resistances in the game. Here's the kicker: anyone who fails their Reflex save for half damage also needs to make a Fortitude save or be dazed. Not too bad. "But spreads are easier to aim than cones, and what are the odds of them failing two saves in a row?" you might cry. Well, my friend, I have another underrated alternative for you: shockwave. It deals 1d4/level nonlethal force damage (max 10d4) in a 20 ft. radius, and anyone who fails a Fortitude save is dazed for a round. No energy resistance at all, and you can subdue enemies rather than killing them, and you get a save-or-suck on top of it all.

Spell: Shark bolt. Imagine scorching ray, except instead of flame rays, it's sharks. How cool is that.

Item: Chickens. Did you realize they're only 2 cp? That's 50 chickens for a single gold piece. Do you know how many monsters you can distract by throwing chickens at them? A lot of monsters, that's how many.

Item: Amber amulet of vermin. These things are wildly underpriced for their effect. Only 700 gp to drop a massive scorpion on your enemies' heads? A bargain.

Prestige class: Urban savant. Easy to get into, gives lots of skill points, full casting, and you can peek at the enemy's character sheet. One of the best arcane prestige classes around IMO, but I rarely see it mentioned.

Prestige class: Thrall of Fraz-Urb'luu. Have you seen that 10th level ability? It lets you turn an illusion into reality. That's free magic items with Nystul's magic aura right there. Plus it adds a bunch of illusion spells to your spell list, or, if you're a warlock, even better, gives them to you as SLAs, which means no material components for simulacrum and ice assassin.

That's a pretty great list - I wasn't aware of quite a lot of those, which is the exact reason I created this thread. :smallsmile:

[jdizzlean]

athasian human from dragon is fun for a psionic campaign, but it's dragon material..

[Vrock Bait]

The guns from Dragon #321. Just because of the anachronism, and because of how much you can freak out your DM when he pulls out his horde of orcs and you noscope them with your “Rocket Launcher”. That shoots bombs. 1d10 to the target, and 1d4 to everybody within 50 feet.

[The Viscount]

Talaire is an interesting race made of 6 houses, each with its own psi like ability. They're found in Complete Psionic right after Synad, and I didn't see them the first time around because instead of being laid out like a normal race they're interlaced with the fluff and long history.

[Particle_Man]

Prc: Sapphire Hierophant from magic of incarnum. A cult that worships a magical computer that predicts the future. I love these guys.

Feat: Magic of the Land - I like this idea of connection to nature that gives a small buff to spells.

Race: Stone child. Quiet warriors. The LA hurts but I love them.

Magic Item: Phylactery of faithfulness to keep my paladins from falling in case my DM and I didn’t work out all the details in session zero.

Spell: hmmm. How about the invocation flee the scene? Dimension door away and leave behind an image of yourself to boot! Or is that not obscure enough? Chill tentacles is a close second for evocative imagery.

[Meditation]

Psionic power wasn’t a game asset mentioned in the OP, so, breakn’ all the rules here:

Graft Weapon. For those who have a difficult-to-use-and-enhance manufactured weapon of any kind, Graft Weapon lets you add the natural weapon tag to it at the low price of Cronenberging it onto your arm. You can now make the claim that you’re proficient with it (insofar as you are proficient with your natural weapons, an issue that can cause discussion at some tables), and, more interestingly, can affect it with effects that affect natural weapons, including the Necklace of Natural Attacks (which is renamed from 3.0 to 3.5 from Necklace of Natural Weapons, which is ironic since it affects natural weapons, per text, rather than specifically natural attacks).

The Naga. Specifically, the Naga as described in Oriental Adventures: Rokugan Campaign Setting. The Naga are the only large, 0 LA race around in 3x. The complication is that there are two Naga races: one is a monster described in the Oriental Adventures Supplement and updated in Dragon magazine and the other the aforementioned race. The race description explicitly calls out its entry as a PC race, noting that the other entry is too costly for most players, and, since it did not receive any updates to 3.5, it is still RAW-legal in 3.5, though it is explicitly 3.0 material so its acceptance will be table-dependent. The Naga have bloodlines, a suite of sub-racial stats. Several of the bloodlines have LAs; of the ones without, one has bonus stats at the expense of heavy stat penalties and the other two have minor bonuses. Base stats are Con/Wis penalizing Cha.

[pabelfly]

athasian human from dragon is fun for a psionic campaign, but it's dragon material..

Looked this up (Dragon 319, P26). Really like this, I can see myself building a PC with it some time.

[Troacctid]

Feat: Forceful Spell. It's a metamagic feat that can be applied to any spell that targets at least one creature. One target of the spell, your choice, must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or be knocked prone and stunned for 1 round. And it's only +1 spell level! Has to be one of the best +1 metamagics in the game IMO.

Feat: Wand Bonding. Warforged only, but it allows you to spend an infusion or spell slot of equal or higher level instead of spending a charge from a wand. That means every wand you find is effectively an additional known spell—even if the wand has only a single charge. Of course it will be at a lower caster level, but guess what? The feat also boosts your caster level for wands.

Spell: Ray of resurgence. This is an instantaneous spell that removes a Strength penalty. Oh hey, look, I'm a halfling, I happen to have this -2 racial penalty to Strength right here, let's just go ahead and...boom, undone. Just a 1st level cleric spell one time and that racial penalty is gone forever.

Prestige class: Follower of the skyserpent. Really easy to qualify for and advances casting at every even level. The cool thing with this class is at level 2, you get the ability to cast fly at will as a spell-like ability. That means that not only do you have at-will flight for yourself, you can also share your at-will flight with the entire party. At ECL 7. Not bad, right?

Item: Greatcleaver. One of the best exotic weapons around, buried in the Bas-Lag Gazetteer issue of Dragon. It's a two-handed reach weapon that deals 2d8 slashing damage (x3 crit). It's like if the sugliin didn't have the drawback. The same issue also features the rivebow, a crossbow that shoots giant buzzsaws for 2d6 damage (19–20/x3 crit, range increment 40 ft.).

[Anthrowhale]

Feat: Wand Bonding. Warforged only, but it allows you to spend an infusion or spell slot of equal or higher level instead of spending a charge from a wand. That means every wand you find is effectively an additional known spell—even if the wand has only a single charge. Of course it will be at a lower caster level, but guess what? The feat also boosts your caster level for wands.


Related, "Channel Charge" from LEoF allows any spellcaster to use a spell slot 1 level higher to cast from a wand or staff without expending a charge.

[Mike Miller]

Spell: Ray of resurgence. This is an instantaneous spell that removes a Strength penalty. Oh hey, look, I'm a halfling, I happen to have this -2 racial penalty to Strength right here, let's just go ahead and...boom, undone. Just a 1st level cleric spell one time and that racial penalty is gone forever.


I know the spell says "any strength penalty" but I find it quite cheesey to think that would remove racial penalties. Now that I think about it, I would like to know if negative stat modifiers from race are referred to as penalties in the core books. note to self, check books for racial penalty phrasing

[schreier]

Feat: Forceful Spell. It's a metamagic feat that can be applied to any spell that targets at least one creature. One target of the spell, your choice, must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or be knocked prone and stunned for 1 round. And it's only +1 spell level! Has to be one of the best +1 metamagics in the game IMO.

Feat: Wand Bonding. Warforged only, but it allows you to spend an infusion or spell slot of equal or higher level instead of spending a charge from a wand. That means every wand you find is effectively an additional known spell—even if the wand has only a single charge. Of course it will be at a lower caster level, but guess what? The feat also boosts your caster level for wands.

Spell: Ray of resurgence. This is an instantaneous spell that removes a Strength penalty. Oh hey, look, I'm a halfling, I happen to have this -2 racial penalty to Strength right here, let's just go ahead and...boom, undone. Just a 1st level cleric spell one time and that racial penalty is gone forever.

Prestige class: Follower of the skyserpent. Really easy to qualify for and advances casting at every even level. The cool thing with this class is at level 2, you get the ability to cast fly at will as a spell-like ability. That means that not only do you have at-will flight for yourself, you can also share your at-will flight with the entire party. At ECL 7. Not bad, right?

Item: Greatcleaver. One of the best exotic weapons around, buried in the Bas-Lag Gazetteer issue of Dragon. It's a two-handed reach weapon that deals 2d8 slashing damage (x3 crit). It's like if the sugliin didn't have the drawback. The same issue also features the rivebow, a crossbow that shoots giant buzzsaws for 2d6 damage (19–20/x3 crit, range increment 40 ft.).

I always wanted to use the follower of the skyserpent in combination with rainbow servant, but I'm pretty sure it's only half-casting (2/5)

[Stevesciguy]

The same issue also features the rivebow, a crossbow that shoots giant buzzsaws for 2d6 damage (19–20/x3 crit, range increment 40 ft.).

Do you recall what number the issue was?

I'm applying for a game where I'll be the warboss of a warhammer fantasy style orc horde, and... I need this. I want buzzsaw shooting units. No, I need buzzsaw shooting units

Edit: found it. #352, pg 43

[animewatcha]

Looked this up (Dragon 319, P26). Really like this, I can see myself building a PC with it some time.

One thing I wonder is if the athasian human still retain bonus feat and skill points.

[pabelfly]

One thing I wonder is if the athasian human still retain bonus feat and skill points.

They're still Humans and get the stuff from the Player's Handbook, including their skill points and feats, but they also get +2 to two ability scores, the optional ability to choose Charisma for psionic power save DCs, extra power points at levels 1, 5, 10 and 15, and four extra psionic powers at the same levels. Pretty good for just LA+1, IMO.

[Thurbane]

I just "discovered" a new race - well, new to me, anyway.

Cynidiceans (EE p.146): Humans with Low-Light Vision and Light Sensitivity.

I'm always learning about new stuff buried away in 3.5 material...

[Venger]

I just "discovered" a new race - well, new to me, anyway.

Cynidiceans (EE p.146): Humans with Low-Light Vision and Light Sensitivity.

I'm always learning about new stuff buried away in 3.5 material...

great free source of llv. spend 10 bucks on a pair of sundark lenses.

[Magemakeboom]

I've always enjoyed the Prestige Class Ambient Tempest from Bestiary of Krynn. Gives your sorcerer the ability to switch out spells weekly.

[Biggus]

Spell: Ray of resurgence. This is an instantaneous spell that removes a Strength penalty. Oh hey, look, I'm a halfling, I happen to have this -2 racial penalty to Strength right here, let's just go ahead and...boom, undone. Just a 1st level cleric spell one time and that racial penalty is gone forever.

Wow...has any DM actually let you do that? All the ones I've played with would have laughed at me if I'd suggested it...


I know the spell says "any strength penalty" but I find it quite cheesey to think that would remove racial penalties. Now that I think about it, I would like to know if negative stat modifiers from race are referred to as penalties in the core books. note to self, check books for racial penalty phrasing

First thing I wondered too, but it's there: on p.10 of the PHB it mentions a "dwarf's -2 racial penalty to Charisma". So it is RAW, but I'm 100% certain it's not RAI.

[Darrin]

PrC: Knight of the Middle Circle (Defenders of the Faith). Full BAB, no feat requirements, free attack bonus, some divine spells for utility.

PrC: Battle Howler of Gruumsh (Dragon #311). I adore this PrC, just haven't had a chance to use it in actual play.

Race: Laika (Savage Species Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030207a)). Dog-people, but not quite nearly as boring as Lupins. I've been waiting for a chance to use this in an Iron Chef, but the opportunity just hasn't quite rolled around yet.

Race/Class: Ambush Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060728a). Large size, fly speed, SR, dragon type, and NO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. Essentially a 7-class 7-RHD "Dragon" class. Downside is favored class is Scout for some reason, and you only have 13 non-ambush-drake levels left to work with.

Spell: focal stone (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20040225a). Saves you from having to take Attune Gem or Craft Skull Talisman as a feat, bypass target restrictions (such as Personal spells), create magical traps, and activate spell effects as a free action.

Feat: Supernatural Instincts (Fiendish Codex II). AoO whenever an opponent you threaten uses a (Su) ability. But the way it's worded, it can also be triggered by passive (Su) abilities. So I'm trying to figure out how to give defensive (Su) abilities to nearby opponents (auras, maybe?), and then tear them apart with AoOs.

Feat: Momentary Alteration (Unearthed Arcana). Spelltouched feat, short duration and limited to one form, but you have access to alter self. Combined with certain creature types and Assume Supernatural Ability/Metamorphic Transfer, and you can pull off a few absurd tricks.

Feat: Audacious Attempt (Oriental Adventures 3.5 update, Dragon #318). Once per day, when attempting a nearly impossible task where you need to roll a 20 to succeed, roll two dice and take the best result.

[daremetoidareyo]

Feat: Audacious Attempt (Oriental Adventures 3.5 update, Dragon #318). Once per day, when attempting a nearly impossible task where you need to roll a 20 to succeed, roll two dice and take the best result.
Found another favorite that I like to think about. I keep trying to figure out how to use that. Multiple attack rolls modified by expertise and power attack + reroll chances?



I mean, if we're looking at dragmag 318, the fail a concentration check and still cast a spell feat is in there, all magic items you make are cursed is in there, and another stimulating one, free real HP for mounting a horse.

[WhamBamSam]

Spell: Ghostly Tail from Races of the Dragon. A 1st level Sorc spell that lasts hours/level creating a spectral tail that makes force damage touch attacks against anyone who would provoke an AoO, even if you aren't wielding a weapon that would threaten them, which makes for a solid combo in conjunction with the Defensive Rebuke maneuver. One of my favorite choices for a Draconic Rite of Passage SLA, and a solid all-day buff for Sorcerer-based JPM.

Spell: Breathbarb (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20030423a) from one of the Wyrms of the North articles. Stick up to 5d8 worth of your damaging breath weapon (loaded up with Metabreath and breath spell rider effects to taste) as a spell trap that can sit for up to days/level before going off in someone's face. Another Wyrms of the North article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20030521a) has the Breathball and Breathdoom spells which are similar.

Feat: Contagious Paralysis from Libris Mortis. Someone that touches a victim of your paralyzing attack also has to save or be paralyzed. Consistently useful and hilarious.

[Alhallor]

Sadly I don't remember the book where I read that, but there was a PrC that you could only get if you were a Bard or a Rogue that made a specific Drow Item work for you via Use Magic Device and if you get more Levels you get more and more spiderlike (additional limps, wall-climbing and other fun stuff.)

It's also really not that obscure but the Dirgesinger bard PrC from Libris Mortis sounds extremely cool, Debuff your enemies and if the first fall you get an undead ally? Check.

Also from the same book the True Necromancer just because you get 14th Levels of a Prestive class, the path is clear.

[Venger]

Sadly I don't remember the book where I read that, but there was a PrC that you could only get if you were a Bard or a Rogue that made a specific Drow Item work for you via Use Magic Device and if you get more Levels you get more and more spiderlike (additional limps, wall-climbing and other fun stuff.)

It's also really not that obscure but the Dirgesinger bard PrC from Libris Mortis sounds extremely cool, Debuff your enemies and if the first fall you get an undead ally? Check.

Also from the same book the True Necromancer just because you get 14th Levels of a Prestive class, the path is clear.

Never heard of that first one. Was it either version of arachnomancer or yochlol webrider?

[Mr Adventurer]

Spell: Ghostly Tail from Races of the Dragon. A 1st level Sorc spell that lasts hours/level creating a spectral tail that makes force damage touch attacks against anyone who would provoke an AoO, even if you aren't wielding a weapon that would threaten them, which makes for a solid combo in conjunction with the Defensive Rebuke maneuver. One of my favorite choices for a Draconic Rite of Passage SLA, and a solid all-day buff for Sorcerer-based JPM.

Spell: Breathbarb (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20030423a) from one of the Wyrms of the North articles. Stick up to 5d8 worth of your damaging breath weapon (loaded up with Metabreath and breath spell rider effects to taste) as a spell trap that can sit for up to days/level before going off in someone's face. Another Wyrms of the North article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20030521a) has the Breathball and Breathdoom spells which are similar.

Feat: Contagious Paralysis from Libris Mortis. Someone that touches a victim of your paralyzing attack also has to save or be paralyzed. Consistently useful and hilarious.

Oh hey, Breathbarb is awesome to have in potions for Dragonfire Adepts!

[Alhallor]

Never heard of that first one. Was it either version of arachnomancer or yochlol webrider?

I searched around a bit and its in the book Song & Silence, you have to trick a Special Magic Item (a fang scarab of Lolth, that normally only works for Spiders and gives them like a +1 Bonus to their attack.) If you do that it permanently fuses with your neck and you can advance as a:

Fang of Lolth

It's really creepy and disturbing but I would say not that useful (but creepy, because the more Levels you get the more you become a half-Spider and at Level 10 you creature type even changes to vermin.)

[Thurbane]

Sadly I don't remember the book where I read that, but there was a PrC that you could only get if you were a Bard or a Rogue that made a specific Drow Item work for you via Use Magic Device and if you get more Levels you get more and more spiderlike (additional limps, wall-climbing and other fun stuff.)

Can't place it now, but I've definitely heard of that PrC. Was it one of the Iron Chef ingredients? I know I've seen it discussed on the forums here...

[edit] Was it the 3.0 version of Fang of Lolth maybe?

[Alhallor]

I glanced at the Iron Chef, It's not impossible that it was a part of something there, but I think it wasn't a main ingredient.

And yes it's the fang of Lolth.

Kinda would like to try that out now, perhaps sprinkle cleric with the madness Domain into that, because of the silent whispers of Lolth the character would hear constantly.

[WhamBamSam]

I glanced at the Iron Chef, It's not impossible that it was a part of something there, but I think it wasn't a main ingredient.

And yes it's the fang of Lolth.

Kinda would like to try that out now, perhaps sprinkle cleric with the madness Domain into that, because of the silent whispers of Lolth the character would hear constantly.There was in fact an Iron Chef round (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII) with Fang of Lolth as the SI.

[unseenmage]

Not sure how obscure it is but I adore the Awaken Sand spell from Sandstorm cuz it makes a Construct that acts like an ooze AND it's jngelligent and free willed.

It's just a very cool spell.

[Chronos]

A couple of powerful spells that I don't see mentioned much:

Unearthly Beauty (I think it's from Book of Exalted Deeds?): It's the same level as Circle of Death, and it's a multi-target save-or-die spell... but it doesn't have a costly material component, it doesn't have any tags like [death] or [mind-affecting] that enemies would be likely to be immune to, it's a Will save so undead can be affected, it bypasses SR, it tosses in an addition save or suck, and if you have an animal companion (it's on the druid list), you can share it to double it up.

Linked Perception (Spell Compendium, plus wherever it was it originated): Affects all of your allies, and gives them all an untyped bonus to Listen and Spot equal to +2 per ally. Got ten allies (including familiars and such)? +20 for everyone. Got a hundred allies (not too difficult with high optimization)? There is no possible way in any book or combination of books to stealth past you.

Another spell that isn't so powerful, but is just really cool:
Door to Great Evil: It's a paladin spell, that instantly teleports you (and your mount) to a creature that needs killin'. It's guaranteed to be level-appropriate, but you have no further control over the spell, and it could be anywhere in the multiverse.

Prestige Class:
Umbral Disciple, from Magic of Incarnum. If you've already got a one-level Incarnate dip on your skillmonkey (which is a very good idea anyway), three levels of Umbral Disciple will get you easy access to always-on concealment and Hide in Plain Sight, plus other goodies.

[Malphegor]

This'll be fun:

feat
ocular spell: one of the few metamagic feats that doesn't need another as tax. fun and interesting for a lot of characters



Plus it's just fun. Tbh there really should be a Prc that makes all your spells an ocular spell for some penalty so I can live out my dreams of being 'Cyclops from the X-Men but better in every way'

[Anthrowhale]

Unearthly Beauty (I think it's from Book of Exalted Deeds?): It's the same level as Circle of Death, and it's a multi-target save-or-die spell... but it doesn't have a costly material component, it doesn't have any tags like [death] or [mind-affecting] that enemies would be likely to be immune to, it's a Will save so undead can be affected, it bypasses SR, it tosses in an addition save or suck, and if you have an animal companion (it's on the druid list), you can share it to double it up.


This is level 8. It's a great spell, particularly if you persist it.

[Mr Adventurer]

Plus it's just fun. Tbh there really should be a Prc that makes all your spells an ocular spell for some penalty so I can live out my dreams of being 'Cyclops from the X-Men but better in every way'

Just reflavour Spellwarp Sniper?

[Thurbane]

And yes it's the fang of Lolth.

Did Dread Fang of Lolth (DotU) supersede Fang of Lolth (S&S)? They look like totally different classes. They also have conflicting alignment requirements, so would be hard to take levels in both...

In regards to some classes already mentioned, I often get Witchborn Binder, Fiendbinder, Nar Demonbinder and Demonbinder all mixed up in my head as to which is which.

[Troacctid]

PrC: Battle Howler of Gruumsh (Dragon #311). I adore this PrC, just haven't had a chance to use it in actual play.
All the bard prestige classes in this issue are great. Memory smith, worldspeaker, green whisperer, and mourner are the other ones.


In regards to some classes already mentioned, I often get Witchborn Binder, Fiendbinder, Nar Demonbinder and Demonbinder all mixed up in my head as to which is which.
Don't forget fiend binder (two words)!

[Venger]

All the bard prestige classes in this issue are great. Memory smith, worldspeaker, green whisperer, and mourner are the other ones.


Don't forget fiend binder (two words)!

Where's fiend binder from? dragon magazine?

[Mr Adventurer]

Only really semi-obscure, but I was recently reminded of how cool Dragoncraft items are (Draconomicon). Armour gets lighter by category and gives energy resist, weapons deal a little non-magical elemental damage, dragonblood potions can give non-magical spell-like abilities.

[Thurbane]

Where's fiend binder from? dragon magazine?

Yeah, quick search looks like Dragon 292...

[Nebuul]

Raging Flame: it's a level 1 spell, but it can do SO MUCH DAMAGE. Non-magical fire does double damage, and magical fire does +1 damage per die. This thing stacks up so fast. I love it. As a transmuter, it's quicken-bait when my party has flaming weapons, or really any other fire damage.

[Bphill561]

Prestige Class: Eldritch Master from Dragon Magazine 280. It does not progress spell casting, but gives you a spell slot one level higher than you can currently cast at level 3, 6, and 9. It also adds another spell list to yours at level 4 and 8. Bonus spells known and extra metamagic feats.

Feat: Arcane Manipulation from Lost Empires of Faerun. It lets you break up a spell slot into a number of lower level spell slots when you prepare spells. It does not stat this slots count as bonus spells from high ability scores, so if you convert 3 level 9 spells to 27 level one spells, you can end up with 60 level 1 spell slots with a ring of wizardry. Very useful for a shadowcraft mage. Also neat to mix with Sublime chord, arcane preparation, and the above Prestige class to get 1-3 level spell slots and spells known on the sublime chord.

Base class: The Pugilist alternative fighter from Dragon #310 not only picks up unarmed strike and endurance as bonus feats, but has an ability called Iron Jaw he can take in place of a fighter feat. It reduces nonlethal damage by your Con score, very funny on a regenerater like a War troll.

Magic Item. The Ring of Meditation in dragon #317 cuts your spell preparation time in half for 3,750 gp.

[Mr Adventurer]

Prestige Class: Eldritch Master from Dragon Magazine 280. It does not progress spell casting, but gives you a spell slot one level higher than you can currently cast at level 3, 6, and 9. It also adds another spell list to yours at level 4 and 8. Bonus spells known and extra metamagic feats.

This thing is bizarre! Do I interpret this correctly that it gives you bonus spells known of levels 0-4, twice?

[WhamBamSam]

Prestige Class: Eldritch Master from Dragon Magazine 280. It does not progress spell casting, but gives you a spell slot one level higher than you can currently cast at level 3, 6, and 9. It also adds another spell list to yours at level 4 and 8. Bonus spells known and extra metamagic feats.The 3.0 Eunuch Warlock works very similarly, though the Dragon 318 update made it into a more conventional casting PrC.

[Piggy Knowles]

Prestige Class: Vigilant Sentinel of Aeranel, from Magic of Eberron. It seems like a fairly straightforward spymaster-style social rogue prestige class and... wait a minute, does thought theft let you read people's thoughts with no save with a successful Sense Motive check? Why yes, yes it does...

Feat: Mark of Stars, from Dragonmarked. I've harped on how good this is before, but holy crap, it's really really good. You're never flat-footed and completely immune to surprise, and get a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex saves. That's literally 9th-level spell good; it's always-on nonmagical foresight in feat form. It requires a Siberys dragonmark, which in turn requires two or three levels of Heir of Siberys, but Siberys marks are also really good (true creation, mind blank, greater teleport, greater prying eyes, mass heal, discern location... there are very few builds where adding one of these as an SLA a couple of times a day won't be good) and the prestige class itself isn't bad (easy to qualify for, requires one feat to get in but gives you another right back, plus provides either 2/3 spellcasting progression or two additional unrestricted bonus feats).

Spell: Investiture of the Orthon from Fiendish Codex II. All of the investiture spells are fascinating, but this is the one that always sticks with me. A retributive sonic shield is pretty cool; an immediate action teleportation disruptor is even cooler. Not a spell I've ever cast in an actual game, but cool nonetheless.

Item: Bleh I don't know, item shopping is literally my least favorite part of D&D and I don't really pay as much attention to the items sections of the various sourcebooks.

Race: I'm going to cheat and instead go with a template. Vecna-blooded, from the god-blooded section of MMV, is a +1 acquired template with really clear instructions on how to acquire it (which is sadly a rarity) that erases you from history. It also has some other cool aspects, most notably making you flat-out immune to most divination magic, but... it erases you from history. That is easily one of the coolest abilities in all of D&D.

[Zombulian]

Off the top of my head...

PrC: Charlatan from Dragon Mag 335. It’s a class that makes you really good at pretending to cast spells. It’s really hilarious. You also get (ex) ways to emulate spells like Burning Hands, Glitterdust, Obscuring Mist, and Pyrotechnics. You get some weird abilities to convince people of how rad you are, etc. etc. But the best part of the class is when you get access to Lesser and Greater Mind Trick. Spells like Command, Scare, Bestow Curse, Suggestion you can “cast” on enemies with a Bluff check, and the only save they get is a Sense Motive check.

Feat: Seconding Hardened Criminal. That feat is a necessity for Charlatan and Truenamer builds alike.

Race: Both of my picks are from Stormwrack. Hadozee are flying squirrel ape-men with Dodge as a bonus feat (no, really, check page 151) with a penchant for piracy. What absolute lads.
Also Darfellan. They’re not particularly shiny but I feel like I should see more of them. They’re orca-folk with a nice swim speed of 40ft and blindsense that only works in water. Also I may be wrong but I think they’re the only player race with a bite attack that isn’t something cherry picked out of a monster manual.


Also from the same book the True Necromancer just because you get 14th Levels of a Prestive class, the path is clear.

True Necromancer isn’t obscure. In fact, it’s quite infamous for being terrible.

[noce]

I really like Crimson Scourge PrC from Cityscape.
It has a lot of flavour, good chassis and good class features, the perfect PrC for your average street thug.

As for spells, Tyche's Touch from Lost Empires of Faerun, a buff to saves with (up to) 24 hours duration as a 2nd level spell, what's not to love.

[Kalkra]

PrC:
Incantifier from Dragon #339. At level one you get no aging penalties, no maximum age, no need to eat, drink or sleep, SR 20 + Incantifier level, and it advances casting. The downside is that you can only be healed by absorbing spells or SLAs with your SR, which heals 1d4 hp per spell level. At level three you've lost a caster level, but now you also have a bonus metamagic feat, and instead of healing yourself, you can choose to get back a spell slot of a level up to the spell or SLA which failed to overcome your SR, and you can heal yourself by draining single-use or charged magic items. In other words, if you have a warlock in your party, you have free out-of-combat healing, and you can get back all of your spells. Requires 14 ranks in some skills, and 6th-level arcane spells, so you can enter at level 12, or 11 with a bit of work.

Item:
The dream keys from Dragon #330. Honestly, I like all of the Cerebrosis stuff, but the dream keys are all gloves which let you cast Cerebrotic spells a few per day, at the cost of some hp and penalties, depending on which you use. You get them by making a DC 21 Knowledge (the planes) check, then burning incense, and having disturbing dreams. The cost of the incense ranges from about 2k-5k, which is extremely cheap for the benefits.

Spells:
Skillful Moment from Dragon #350 is a 1st-level spell that lets you take 20 on a skill check in the next round as a standard action.

Research Aid from Dragon #342 is a 4th-level spell you get from the Initiate of Boccob feat. It takes an hour to cast, but it lasts days/level, and it halves the time to cast Identify or Legends Lore, the time to research a new spell, and the time to craft a magic item, and gives you a +5 circumstance bonus to Spellcraft for researching new spells. If you don't wanna take the feat, get it on an item.

Consume the Parasite from Dragon #343 is a 3rd-level spell that you can get from the Wormbound feat. Unlike all the other spells granted by the feat,
Consume the Parasite has the worm as a material component, rather than as the focus, (because it's consumed by the spell), meaning that if you can get it on an item, you don't need to ever have hosted a creepy worm parasite. The spell itself is a swift action to cast, and it gives +4 enhancement to Strength and Dexterity, +2 CL, and +2 DC to all your spellsfor rounds/level.

In case it wasn't clear, I recently went on a Dragon Mag binge.

[Zombulian]

Haven’t seen this mentioned but maybe I missed it.

Item: Spinning Sword from Secrets of Sarlona. Exotic weapon that works essentially like a Spiked Chain (may not be able to trip though) but is 1-handed. Also you can wear it as a belt, which is cool.

[Particle_Man]

Race/Class: Ambush Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060728a). Large size, fly speed, SR, dragon type, and NO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. Essentially a 7-class 7-RHD "Dragon" class. Downside is favored class is Scout for some reason, and you only have 13 non-ambush-drake levels left to work with.

Wow! This is a good find! It seems that it’s SR actually increases with class levels in scout! Is that so? Is it an ambush drake thing or have I been misunderstanding 3.5 monster SR all this time? I thought that SR increases only applied to racial HD or age category for dragons.

[Mr Adventurer]

Race/Class: Ambush Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060728a). Large size, fly speed, SR, dragon type, and NO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. Essentially a 7-class 7-RHD "Dragon" class. Downside is favored class is Scout for some reason, and you only have 13 non-ambush-drake levels left to work with.


This didn't sound right so I looked it up: Ambush Drakes are in the Monster Manual III:

They aren't Large size, they're Medium While they do have a Fly speed, it's only 30' (poor) - actually less than their land speed - so a far cry from the speeds true dragons get SR starts at 16 which isn't impressive on a 7HD, CR5 creature, and the monster entry doesn't say anything about SR increasing with any kind of Hit Dice (or at all) They actually have LA —, which means they're not playable - not LA +0 Their Advancement is by Hit Die, not by character class, and so they don't have a favoured class at all.

Basically I think you've made a number of mistakes and using only a web article on a specific, exceptional NPC rather than the actual monster entry hasn't helped you (though even then, some stuff like the size issue made me scratch my head).

[Thurbane]

My honest opinion is that the Ambush Drake "class" in the article was to allow DMs to use young/immature Ambush Drakes as encounters, and have their abilities and CR listed - but the article certainly doesn't make that clear.

[Mr Adventurer]

I'll hold my hands up and admit that I missed the "template class" at the end of the article (whatever that is), but yes, even the introductory text makes it clear it's about ways to create different monsters.

[Darrin]

Basically I think you've made a number of mistakes and using only a web article on a specific, exceptional NPC rather than the actual monster entry hasn't helped you (though even then, some stuff like the size issue made me scratch my head).

My apologies. I had a brain fart on the size. They are indeed medium-sized, both in MMIII and the web article. As penance, please consider the Hornhead Saurial from the Serpent Kingdoms Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a), which is the only large-sized humanoid that hasn't been errata'd into a different creature type. 2 RHD and LA +2, so not exactly PC-friendly, but valid for alter self shenanigans. The small-sized Flyer (50' average Fly speed) might also be useful for alter self.

As far as whether the Ambush Drake was intended for PCs... from what I can tell in the archives, D&D Fight Club was intended to give the PCs opponents (and sometimes allies) that the DM could drop in easily into an "Arena Fight" or any other plausible encounter. So probably NPC-only. However, the Template Class used with the Ambush Drake was introduced specifically for PC use with the "Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a)" articles.

The odd part is the designer changed the rules for the Ambush Drake Template Class. As per the Ver'Shan article: "An ambush drake must take all levels of this class before it can take levels in any other class." This contradicts the rules from the Savage Progression article: "Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession." This makes the Ambush Drake Template Class to be more similar to the Monster Class levels from Savage Species.

Anyway, this is not really evidence on one side or the other, but the Ambush Drake Template Class is usually considered legal for Iron Chef, and we've had at least one build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23710005&postcount=97) that used it.

[Particle_Man]

Is ambush drake the only race that has SR scale with levels in other classes?

[Troacctid]

Spell: Flame sands, from here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20021120a). You've heard of orb of fire? How about an orb of fire that you can re-cast for free every turn for the rest of the combat?

EDIT: For more detail, it's of course not quite orb of fire, since it has a Fortitude save for half damage and can't daze them. But you can do it once a turn for 1 round/level, and subsequent uses are only a move action (based on the general rule for directing and redirecting spells). It also has the added bonuses of being Medium range rather than Close, having no somatic components, breaking any exposed glass objects (such as potions) on the target's person, and gaining a small AoE if you target an area of water. Plus, it's a druid spell too! All in all, seriously potent.

[Zombulian]

Spell: Flame sands, from here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20021120a). You've heard of orb of fire? How about an orb of fire that you can re-cast for free every turn for the rest of the combat?

Holy crap! Yet another goody to add to my Archivist’s wishlist.

[Venger]

wow, your archivist gets spells from dragon magazine?

[Thurbane]

Spell: Flame sands, from here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20021120a). You've heard of orb of fire? How about an orb of fire that you can re-cast for free every turn for the rest of the combat?

EDIT: For more detail, it's of course not quite orb of fire, since it has a Fortitude save for half damage and can't daze them. But you can do it once a turn for 1 round/level, and subsequent uses are only a move action (based on the general rule for directing and redirecting spells). It also has the added bonuses of being Medium range rather than Close, having no somatic components, breaking any exposed glass objects (such as potions) on the target's person, and gaining a small AoE if you target an area of water. All in all, a seriously potent spell.

It's also one of the rare Evocation damaging spells that is SR: No. Evokers and Warmages everywhere thank you for bringing this to their attention!

[The Viscount]

Is ambush drake the only race that has SR scale with levels in other classes?

Karsites from Tome of Magic also have this feature.

[Bphill561]

This thing is bizarre! Do I interpret this correctly that it gives you bonus spells known of levels 0-4, twice?

I assumed you got a second round of low level bonus spells known because you pick up more spells lists to choose spells from as you go.

I played a Bard 4/Cleric 1/Eldritch Master 5/Sublime Chord 10.

Something like Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Human Paragon 2/ Eldritch Master 2/ Dweomerkeeper 1/ Eldritch Master 2/ Sublime Chord 1/ Dweomerkeeper 9 would be pretty funny. With the previously mentioned Arcane Manipulation plus Arcane Preparation, you could break a level 6 sublime chord slot into a 1, 2, and 3 allowing you to apply eldritch master bonus spells known to sublime chord at those levels.


Only really semi-obscure, but I was recently reminded of how cool Dragoncraft items are (Draconomicon). Armour gets lighter by category and gives energy resist, weapons deal a little non-magical elemental damage, dragonblood potions can give non-magical spell-like abilities.

Didn't they also have non-magical potions that worked in antimagic fields made from dragon blood? One of them gave you polymorph.


My apologies. I had a brain fart on the size. They are indeed medium-sized, both in MMIII and the web article. As penance, please consider the Hornhead Saurial from the Serpent Kingdoms Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a), which is the only large-sized humanoid that hasn't been errata'd into a different creature type. 2 RHD and LA +2, so not exactly PC-friendly, but valid for alter self shenanigans. The small-sized Flyer (50' average Fly speed) might also be useful for alter self.
[/URL] that used it.

Although they are in dragon Magazine, there are the Quinametin that are large humanoids in issue #317.

Race: The Brainstealer dragon from Dragon Magazine #337 is a dragon Mind Flayer. It has 7 Racial Dragon HD with a +5 LA compared to the standard Mind Flayer with 8 Racial Aberation HD with a +7 LA. Same size, same abilities with a lower ECL. You can even keep it at +5 LA pushing to the very young category with 10HD for large size for better eating. Not bad if you can still get clearance for Illithaid savant entry.

Spell: Miracle. Okay this is SRD and well known. But the last ability listed under the non-xp options does not get listed much.
Have any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects. Taking a look at the Tome of Magic, Truenamer abilites have an associated level attached to them and under the true name magic rule section, it says the effective spell level of an utterance is equal to its utterance level for purposes of interaction with other spells. Hmm works like a spell for interactions, has a level, equivalent to spells, and every power is 7th level and under. Looks like you could copy an effect with a miracle. Shadowmagic mysteries in the same book are similar. But there are some unique powers like "Rebuild Item" that restores a magic item destroyed in the previous round. Now if you can just figure out how to ocular, chain spell the miracle with a shadowcraft mage to restore Disjunction problems.

Flood of Shadows in the same book adds empower to all shadow descriptor spells cast in the area. Nice add to the shadow plane free maximize spell for your shadowcraft mage.

[Venger]

Karsites from Tome of Magic also have this feature.

drow does as well

[Thurbane]

Karsites from Tome of Magic also have this feature.

drow does as well

Speaking of obscure stuff, another race that I only (re)discovered recently - Bariaur (PH) also have scaling SR (11 + class levels): they are surprisingly decent for a LA +1 race. Not to be confused with Exalted Bariaurs from BoED.

[animewatcha]

Spell: Miracle. Okay this is SRD and well known. But the last ability listed under the non-xp options does not get listed much. Taking a look at the Tome of Magic, Truenamer abilites have an associated level attached to them and under the true name magic rule section, it says the effective spell level of an utterance is equal to its utterance level for purposes of interaction with other spells. Hmm works like a spell for interactions, has a level, equivalent to spells, and every power is 7th level and under. Looks like you could copy an effect with a miracle. Shadowmagic mysteries in the same book are similar. But there are some unique powers like "Rebuild Item" that restores a magic item destroyed in the previous round. Now if you can just figure out how to ocular, chain spell the miracle with a shadowcraft mage to restore Disjunction problems.

Flood of Shadows in the same book adds empower to all shadow descriptor spells cast in the area. Nice add to the shadow plane free maximize spell for your shadowcraft mage.

To take this a step further.... Isn't truenaming 'safe' to do in antimagic fields? So miracle can duplicate any truenaming effect for within antimagic fields?

[Venger]

utterances are slas and thus do not work in an amf

[Mr Adventurer]

You also wouldn't be able to cast the Miracle spell itself while in an Antimagic Field...

[Venger]

You also wouldn't be able to cast the Miracle spell itself while in an Antimagic Field...

While it doesn't let you do miracles, invoke magic is an extremely cool spell from lords of madness that lets you cast up to 4ths in an amf or even a plane with no magic.

[Jowgen]

The single most obscure spell I know, that I also get a lot of mileage out of in all sorts of optimization exercises, is Womb of the Earth from Dragon 279 p. 35.

So we are talking like dawn of 3e pre-paizo dragon mag (Jan 2001, less than 6 months since the first PHB printing), older than most people ever bother going back to. Not a single collection of dragon mag spells I know has it listed, not even bloody DragonDex.

A mere 1st level cleric spell that makes the enrichment version of plantgrowth look like a ray of frost next to blizzard. You can grow so much stuff with this in such a short amount of time, the second you can apply it to any remotely valuable plant, you can basically tank the world economy.

[Venger]

when I saw the name i was going to ask if it was adapted into land womb (another weird spell) but evidently not.

full text here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?524243-Womb-of-the-Earth-an-obscure-spell-with-abuse-potential) for the curious.

[ayvango]

Off the top of my head... Also I may be wrong but I think they’re the only player race with a bite attack that isn’t something cherry picked out of a monster manual.
Kobolds have bite attack too.

[Vizzerdrix]

I'll start with a few things. I won't post everything now. Its late, and a lot of things I would add are already here.

Nybor's Psychic Imprint
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20041215a
Is a great way to enhance magic items during casting, or keep a buddy around.

Watchspider
Animal companion magical beast. Never worry about training tricks. Big enough for a small rider. Comes with poison. Look up the old spew handbook for some fun ideas.

Spikards, and alchemy blade from Eberron. Interesting little weapons with fun damage boosts.

Plant companion (dragon mag) Id love to see what people can do with this some day. I feel it has a lot of potential.

Gnome Artificer.
It tries its hardest to do something new and unique. Shame it isn't good.

Vrill- fearless goblin warrior slaves of the drow. Cool looking too.

corral growth, suspension, Shalantha's Delicate Disk, minor servator Create crawling claw, create darkenbeas, sticks and stones, sticks to snakes, syphon and Engulfing terror are all spells I don't see mentioned often.

Aleax is a monster that IF you can beat it, will give you some huge bonuses. Im surprised hunting them isn't part of most builds.

[Venger]

Kobolds have bite attack too.

no they don't (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm)

I'm a big fan of dukar hand coral. slowly heals you and even enables minor regeneration. pretty cool especially for the cost.

[ayvango]

It was updated online: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

[Meditation]

My apologies. I had a brain fart on the size. They are indeed medium-sized, both in MMIII and the web article. As penance, please consider the Hornhead Saurial from the Serpent Kingdoms Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040717a), which is the only large-sized humanoid that hasn't been errata'd into a different creature type.

As mentioned before, in this very thread, the L5R/Oriental Adventures Naga that is set explicitly for PCs and was grandfathered into 3.5 because it did not have an update is Large sized and has no LA (for several subspecies), has no HD, and solid stats for many builds (and isn’t in Dragon magazine). Bizarrely, this is probably the tenth time in nearly as many years I’ve mentioned this in a thread and had someone miss it and pick a worse option for a large race. It’s even happened in person. It’s long-past officially surreal.


Hey: would you like the swarm subtype? Sure you would. It’s neat. Get Dragon #350 allowed at your table and take Brood Keeper’s Heart and bind it to your Heart chakra (hm, that sounds clumsy) and rely on miss chance or monk bonuses for AC ‘cause your armor bonuses don’t work and your AC now sucks. What damage do you do? Who knows. Entertaining. One could wonder why tables don’t all automatically accept Dragon material.

You can have more fun by binding the Chaos Roc’s Span in the same article to get two reach secondary natural attacks that do nonlethal damage. Spiffy: lots of ins and outs there making for a pretty cool and balanced setup. Bind it to your shoulders and hit a target with both wings and the target is dazed and oh yeah that’s why Dragon is cruddy.

The technically-legal Kingdoms of Kalamar adventure Forging Darkness has an item called the Coin of Power (what it lacks in clever it recoups in accuracy) that can be thrown at someone once a month to utterly kill that person at tremendous drawbacks. Don’t throw it. Just carry it around and get 2 free class levels. Also, if two coins of this kind ever touch they explode. So don’t do that. This is obscure for a reason.

Hizagkuur is a material from Underdark from the Underdark that gets its armor user cold resistance 2, its weapon user +1 electricity damage and +1 fire damage, and counts-as-silver versus DR for 2k or 12.5k, respectively. Mid-to-late game characters optimizing damage could absorb that cost.

Mental Rage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20041029b) is a psionic power in the Telepathy discipline that does untyped energy damage to everything vs. a Reflex save in a medium-sized area around you at a pretty good damage rate, allowing for a decent punish for approaching you. It gives you an AC-penalty that you can spam power points to remove, so overchannel/wild surge and go to town. Its downside is that it’s concentration, so Solicit Psicrystal and make the rock do it.

[Venger]

A poster after my own heart dunking on the terrible totemist melds and how they don't unerstand how monsters work. What in the heck do they think a natural attack with reach looks like? Are your wings just tips with the middle missing like Rayman's hands?

Mental rage sure is cool. Never even heard of it before. Damage kind of sucks, but range and duration is pretty cool.

Speaking of obscure online material, I'm a big fan of steal steel. It was from one of the mind's eye, but I'm having a devil of a time finding a link to it. It's a 5th level psion power, psychoportation, and you blast yourself into a sword, becoming essentially untargetable and indestructible. If that sword touches another sword, like during a swordfight, you can blast your consciousness into this new sword and so on. There's some more details I'm forgetting. It's a very involved spell, kind of like magic jar. If anybody can find a link so others can enjoy it, I'd certainly appreciate it.

[Vizzerdrix]

no they don't (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm)

I'm a big fan of dukar hand coral. slowly heals you and even enables minor regeneration. pretty cool especially for the cost.

Source on that coral?

[Venger]

Source on that coral?

champions of valor p63. doubles your natural healing rate, lets you regenerate severed body parts, helps you breathe underwater, and emits light when you meet shake hands with someone else smart enough to have one. fun, flavorful item and a good use of resources for 1600gp.

[Mr Adventurer]

Hizagkuur dealing two elemental damage types is useful for Dragonfire Adepts with use of the ... Dragon Breath Cincture? The one that increases the DC or the damage of your breath weapon (I forget which) so long as you are wielding a magic weapon that deals the same kind of elemental damage as the breath weapon. Hizagkuur for electricity and fire, weapon crystal of Energy Assault for cold or acid (or sonic) and weapon enhancement properties for any others you need. Dragoncraft weapons also add a small amount of energy damage in this way, but only one type at a time. I think I had a Dragonfire Adept with a crossbow with an Energy Assault crystal, a Dragoncraft bayonet attached to it with its own Energy Assault crystal.

[Troacctid]

As mentioned before, in this very thread, the L5R/Oriental Adventures Naga that is set explicitly for PCs and was grandfathered into 3.5 because it did not have an update is Large sized and has no LA (for several subspecies), has no HD, and solid stats for many builds (and isn’t in Dragon magazine). Bizarrely, this is probably the tenth time in nearly as many years I’ve mentioned this in a thread and had someone miss it and pick a worse option for a large race. It’s even happened in person. It’s long-past officially surreal.
First off, they were updated to 3.5 in Dragon 318 and given level adjustments. Second, even if they weren't, that's not how LA works. Their entries don't list a level adjustment at all. In 3.0, that means LA —. Third, what do you mean no HD? They totally have racial hit dice. Are we reading different monster entries?

OA nagas are mostly notable for being Large-size humanoid forms for alter self, and even that is only if you disregard the update, which changed the Large ones to monstrous humanoids.

[Vizzerdrix]

First off, they were updated to 3.5 in Dragon 318 and given level adjustments. Second, even if they weren't, that's not how LA works. Their entries don't list a level adjustment at all. In 3.0, that means LA —. Third, what do you mean no HD? They totally have racial hit dice. Are we reading different monster entries?

OA nagas are mostly notable for being Large-size humanoid forms for alter self, and even that is only if you disregard the update, which changed the Large ones to monstrous humanoids.

I could have sworn their LA was listed on a different page. I'll go book diving to see what I can find later.

[Zombulian]

It was updated online: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

Kinda making my point for me there champ.

[ayvango]

Nybor's Psychic Imprint
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20041215a
It's a perfect spell for action economy. I wonder why I never encountered it before. You could ask trusted wizard to cast such spell on you and use your personality to create copy of your consciousness (ability drain could be restored or prevented easily), then infuse that copy into a magic item. Now there are two of "you" that could act independently each round.

[daremetoidareyo]

A-words trypthic or something from the wyrms of the North archive allows you to use a 5th level spell slot to activate 3 wands in succession. Crazy good

[WhamBamSam]

There are a few feats that can give you a bite attack as well. Warforged can get one via the Jaws of Death feat, and any race can use Deformity (Teeth) or Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Hunger Domain). Since the latter only requires one feat it can essentially make any bonus feat race a de facto race with a bite.

Tangentially related, they're not super obscure, but I do really like Frostblood Orcs and Half-Orcs for the ability to take any other feat they qualify for when they'd otherwise get Endurance as a bonus feat, essentially making them feat-neutral with Humans as a Ranger race, or better if you want more feats that you don't qualify for at level 1.

[Zombulian]

There are a few feats that can give you a bite attack as well. Warforged can get one via the Jaws of Death feat, and any race can use Deformity (Teeth) or Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Hunger Domain). Since the latter only requires one feat it can essentially make any bonus feat race a de facto race with a bite.

Tangentially related, they're not super obscure, but I do really like Frostblood Orcs and Half-Orcs for the ability to take any other feat they qualify for when they'd otherwise get Endurance as a bonus feat, essentially making them feat-neutral with Humans as a Ranger race, or better if you want more feats that you don't qualify for at level 1.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I’m perfectly aware that there are plenty of ways to get a bite attack. The thing that strikes me about Darfellan is that they’re a race in the races section of a book with a bite attack that they get for free, while also not being a monstrous race with a level adjustment. Bonus points for the fact that while just looking at the illustrations for them, Darfellan certainly don’t look like they have a bite attack that does 1d6 damage.

[Meditation]

First off, they were updated to 3.5 in Dragon 318 and given level adjustments.

No. They. Weren’t.

*sigh* Nearly 10 years of this, seriously.

There are two mechanically and editorially different suites of game assets called Naga in Oriental Adventures (L5R d20). Both of them have several Naga subspecies called bloodlines (as if we didn’t use that term enough in d20). One of them is explicitly called out as a PC option whereas the other is a “monster” race where several subspecies have high amounts of LA and HD. The former was NOT updated in 3.5 and thus explicitly grandfathered into 3.0, while the latter was seriously nerfed because the 3.0 monster Naga had such a small LA/HD requirement for its weaker subspecies that it was almost as good a deal as Lolth-Touched.

I said nearly all this in the first post, btw.

This happens every time.


Third, what do you mean no HD? They totally have racial hit dice. Are we reading different monster entries?

Yes. You’re not reading the right entry. You’re not reading my whole post.

Please read the post.

Look up the entry I cited. . . not the entry you searched. Did I cite Dragon magazine? Nope. You know why? Because the PC stats weren’t updated in Dragon magazine — just the monster stats. There are no monster entries for the PC Naga options in d20 at all.

(And thank God there aren’t, or it would be even more confusing.)

I swear, this subject is the only time where giving a citation on the internet literally feels worse than giving none at all. I kinda wish Dragon had updated the PC version — people read it more than the OA supplement.

I don’t think this is anyone’s fault, btw. I seriously think this aspect of d20 is just cursed.


The thing that strikes me about Darfellan is that they’re a race in the races section of a book with a bite attack that they get for free, while also not being a monstrous race with a level adjustment. Bonus points for the fact that while just looking at the illustrations for them, Darfellan certainly don’t look like they have a bite attack that does 1d6 damage.

They get penalized by WotC overvaluing Strength, though -- Darfellan are a Str+2 race, so their stats suck. Get a sympathetic DM to give them a +2 to something and you're in business.

I love the fact that they have a swim speed. I like swim speeds. All they're missing is water breathing (they have breath holding -- bah). Hey, that coral stuff upthread will work. Sweet.

(And if you have the coral or stuff like that, breath-holding is actually a nice perk against some mid-level attacks.)

[Mr Adventurer]

They get penalized by WotC overvaluing Strength, though -- Darfellan are a Str+2 race, so their stats suck. Get a sympathetic DM to give them a +2 to something and you're in business.

+2 Str, -2 Dex and a handful of racial abilities seems absolutely fine for a LA +0 race; certainly not a basis to say "their stats suck".

[Thurbane]

Agreed. 1/2 Elves suck. 1/2 Orcs kinda suck. Goblins suck. Darfellans? I think they are a perfectly fine LA +0 race.

[Meditation]

+2 Str, -2 Dex and a handful of racial abilities seems absolutely fine for a LA +0 race; certainly not a basis to say "their stats suck".

Their abilities aren't the equivalent of a missing +2. The Darfellans objectively have lower stats because they have a Str bonus. Having an objective penalty for an unreasonable cause fits the conventional definition of "suck." PF eliminated this penalty and nothing caught fire. Nothing exploded. Hobgoblins have no LA there, either, for the same reason: Str isn't the end-all and be-all. Feel free to argue that one of the things Paizo got right here was wrong, but I'd be (likely pleasantly) surprised if you come up with evidence that hasn't been turned up by the internet et. al. in the past 10 years.

[pabelfly]

Their abilities aren't the equivalent of a missing +2. The Darfellans objectively have lower stats because they have a Str bonus. Having an objective penalty for an unreasonable cause fits the conventional definition of "suck." PF eliminated this penalty and nothing caught fire. Nothing exploded. Hobgoblins have no LA there, either, for the same reason: Str isn't the end-all and be-all. Feel free to argue that one of the things Paizo got right here was wrong, but I'd be (likely pleasantly) surprised if you come up with evidence that hasn't been turned up by the internet et. al. in the past 10 years.

Most LA0 races have equal stat adjustments in 3.5 - one or two +2s, and the same amount of -2s. I don't see anything different about a Darfellan, excepting that I'd seriously consider one if I wanted a humanoid for an aquatic campaign, and they lose most of their utility otherwise - except for that bite attack, which I like. Makes sense when they're packed into an aquatic-themed book.

[Particle_Man]

Hobgoblins in Pathfinder have no str bonus but get bonuses to dex and con. Some feel this makes them a bit too good.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If anything Darfellans are strong for a +0 race. They compare favorably with humans, any way. Both have net +0 stats, but humans have a bonus feat. Would I spend a feat on a 40ft swim speed, a 1d6 bite attack, and echolocation? In an aquatic campaign you better believe I would! Darfellans do lose the bonus skill points and 10ft of land speed, which does sting, but in an aquatic campaign the human would probably be spending several of those skill points on Swim anyways just to break even with the Darfellan's +8 racial bonus, and land speed isn't as important when you're mostly either swimming or on the (relatively small) deck of a ship.

Darfellans are awesome, and I love them. Their racial history with the Sahuagin makes for great campaign hooks, too.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, I think there's some confusion going on here.

The vast bulk of LA +0 races in 3.5 have a net +0 to ability scores; most often in the form of +2 to one stat, and -2 to another. Elves get +2 Dex, -2 Con. Dwarves get +2 Con, -2 Cha.

Darfellans follow this same formula: +2 Str, -2 Dex. they are not better or worse off, stat wise, than the vast bulk of LA +0 races in 3.5.

I think there may be some confusion with the PF system, where most LA +0 races have a net +2 to ability scores.

[Jowgen]

One item from an obscure source, though I imagine it's reasonably well known by now, is Dungeon magazine 88 p. 104 's "Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus", which grants actual ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

[Venger]

One item from an obscure source, though I imagine it's reasonably well known by now, is Dungeon magazine 88 p. 104 's "Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus", which grants actual ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

All the freshmen who blew off the first class because all the professor does is read the syllabus: "Shoot!"

[Kalkra]

One item from an obscure source, though I imagine it's reasonably well known by now, is Dungeon magazine 88 p. 104 's "Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus", which grants actual ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

And cheaper than a competence boosting item. Doesn't say what happens if you try to exceed your normal cap though, so you probably can't.

[Particle_Man]

One item from an obscure source, though I imagine it's reasonably well known by now, is Dungeon magazine 88 p. 104 's "Yenejg Togan's Planar Syllabus", which grants actual ranks in Knowledge (the planes).

I wonder if that can be used for early entry to some prestige classes?

[Venger]

I wonder if that can be used for early entry to some prestige classes?

If your dm allows content from dungeon magazine, sure.

[Thurbane]

If your dm allows content from dungeon magazine, sure.

There's a similar item in Lords of Madness: Codex Anethama. Gives 5 ranks of Knowledge (dungeoneering), 2 ranks of Knowledge (arcana), and 2 ranks of Knowledge (the planes).

[Venger]

There's a similar item in Lords of Madness: Codex Anethama. Gives 5 ranks of Knowledge (dungeoneering), 2 ranks of Knowledge (arcana), and 2 ranks of Knowledge (the planes).

That's a cool item. Never heard of it before. Since unlike say, primary contact, it doesn't say you can break the cap, you can't. I gather the syllabus also lacks such language, so that's what I'd recommend for that.

Speaking of getting knowledge skills, I'm a fan of keeper of forbidden lore. Maybe not as useful as education, but more flavorful, plus it's an abyssal heritor feat, so can be shuffled once you've gotten what you need from it.

[Meditation]

Dungeon magazine had a hair razor -- a blade that you tied to your hair and swung around -- that simply added to your total number of attacks per round without any other cost save gold. It was an exotic weapon, but nonproficiency didn't present a drawback to the character, only reduced accuracy on what is essentially a free attack.

Dragon, and especially Dungeon, are problematic for this sort of issue (e.g., the thread topic); the stuff in those periodicals is less well-considered than homebrew tossed onto fansites.

D&D would be a better game if much of its 1st party material had, instead, been well-considered, thoughtful versions of what was in those magazines. I suspect that the Paladins of every alignment from Dragon would have had a better signal-to-noise ratio than the Book of Exalted Deeds. And Warlock truly needed Eldritch Claws (though the Beast Claws combo likely should be addressed).

[Kalkra]

On the topic of Dungeon, I've always been kinda fond of the Memelith template from Dungeon #117, page 27, although I haven't found a way to make it actually good.

It's +2 LA (probably), +2 Cha -2 Wis, Deflection bonus to AC equal to Cha modifier, any physical contact, including touch attacks and armed attacks forces a will save against confusion for one round, up to one creature per round. A note on that, it doesn't seem to be optional, so presumably it'll affect the first enemy you hit, and also any allies who cast touch spells on you, your mother when she hugs you, etc. Also, it only affects one creature per round, but it sounds kinda like if you make multiple attacks against that one creature, it needs to make a will save for each one, maybe. Moving on, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, you need to make a DC 15 will save in order to take 10 or 20 to preform an extended task, the DC to use Diplomacy, Intimidate or Sense motive against the memelith is increased by 10, the ability to use any skill untrained, all skills are class skills, add (or subtract) 1d6-3 to all skill checks, and finally, ghost sound, mage hand, and open/close as a 10th-level sorcerer, whatever that means. Probably they're supposed to be at-will SLAs, and not actual spellcasting. Anyway, those three will manifest on their own, unless the memelith makes a DC 10 will save to stop it for 1d6 rounds. I'm pretty sure that means they'll go off when the memelith sleeps, though, so that'll probably be kinda unpleasant for the rest of the party.

There's a ton of stuff there, and it would be really cool to play, I'm just not sure it's actually, y'know, good. Also, LA isn't mentioned in the template description, but the sample memelith has +2 LA, and that's just a human, so I'm guessing that the template was supposed to be +2. It if was +0, then it would be like a way better version or magic-blooded, but I doubt any DM would allow it in that case.

[Venger]

Dungeon magazine had a hair razor -- a blade that you tied to your hair and swung around -- that simply added to your total number of attacks per round without any other cost save gold. It was an exotic weapon, but nonproficiency didn't present a drawback to the character, only reduced accuracy on what is essentially a free attack.

Dragon, and especially Dungeon, are problematic for this sort of issue (e.g., the thread topic); the stuff in those periodicals is less well-considered than homebrew tossed onto fansites.
Yeah, I'm not nuts about all this dragon magazine content in this thread either, but what're you gonna do? Ten years after they stopped publishing official material, it's pretty hard to find obscure first party content, i guess.


D&D would be a better game if much of its 1st party material had, instead, been well-considered, thoughtful versions of what was in those magazines. I suspect that the Paladins of every alignment from Dragon would have had a better signal-to-noise ratio than the Book of Exalted Deeds. And Warlock truly needed Eldritch Claws (though the Beast Claws combo likely should be addressed).
You know that 99% of the content of splats is lifted (with various degrees of editing) from dragon magazine, right? If first party material isn't well-considered or thoughtful, why should stuff stolen from dragon magazine get special treatment? :smalltongue:

content: stump knife. requires losing or cutting off your hand, but very useful for critfishers. like a wealth of obscure dross, it lurks in aeg.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, I'm not nuts about all this dragon magazine content in this thread either, but what're you gonna do? Ten years after they stopped publishing official material, it's pretty hard to find obscure first party content, i guess.
That's true - but there is still the occasional nugget to be found. Usually an online article, in an adventure, or in a rulebook in an odd section where you wouldn't expect to find it.

Case in point: D&D Adventures: A List of obscure 1st party sources (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509781)

[Venger]

That's true - but there is still the occasional nugget to be found. Usually an online article, in an adventure, or in a rulebook in an odd section where you wouldn't expect to find it.

Oh, absolutely. I'd never heard of the codex anathema, for example, despite having many parts of lords of madness basically memorized. on that subject, lords of madness's slavery rules. there's cause to cite them with surprising frequency.

cold iron warrior's already been mentioned, and as questionable as the qc was on the online articles, the fey features as a whole were pretty cool.

occasionally I wake up in a cold sweat and fear that ballisteer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b) will be the new ingredient for iron chef, but every time, I've been wrong.

[AvatarVecna]

It's weird actually...I started a personal project a while ago where I was trying to hunt down weird PrC abilities. It was largely for things like "practicing optimizing stuff that's garbage but has some gems", as well as getting good ammunition if there's ever a game where I can snipe abilities from around the whole edition. It's nowhere near complete, else I'd probably just make it its own thread and just link to the thread, but here's a few highlights from what I've looked through so far:



Spider Blast (Sp): Once per day, a 10th-level arachnomancer can produce a 50-foot long, cone-shaped blast of extremely poisonous, normal-sized spiders. Every creature within the area of the blast takes 5d4 points of damage and must make 1d4 Fortitude saves against poison (DC 10 + arachnomancer level + arachnomancer's Con modifier; 1d6 points of Strength damage for both initial and secondary damage). Each creature is also allowed a Reflex save at the same DC for partial effect: Success means the victim takes half damage and need make only one Fortitude saving throw against poison (though the second saving throw normally required against a poison's secondary effect still applies). The spiders fade away at the end of the arachnomancer's turn.

1/day, breathe forth a 50 ft cone of spiders. 5d6 damage and 1d4 Fort saves (Ref save for half damage and 1 Fort save). Any failed fort saves means 1d6 Str damage. This is on the list less because it's particularly useful or abusable, and more because it's such an evocative image that, because it's a bad capstone for an awful class, will not otherwise get mentioned ever.


Slap of Forgetfulness (Ex): The arcanopath monk of 7th or higher level can use this extraordinary ability once per round, but no more than once per arcanopath level per day. The monk must declare he is using the slap of forgetfulness attack before making the attack roll (thus, a missed attack roll ruins the attempt). A foe struck by the arcanopath is forced to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the arcanopath level + the arcanopath's Wisdom modifier), in addition to taking damage as normal. If the saving throw fails, the opponent loses 1d4 arcane spells (or 1d4 unused daily arcane spell slots). The lost spells or spell slots are lost first from the highest level spells the spellcaster can cast, but otherwise are determined by the creature struck. If the result indicates more spells lost than are prepared (or unused) at a particular level, spells at the next lower level are lost in the same fashion, and so on. Lost spells (or open spell slots) can be regained normally. Creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected by the slap of forgetfulness.

Sundering Strike of Oblivion (Ex): When an arcanopath monk of 10th level makes a successful slap of forgetfulness, he can automatically convert it to a sundering strike of oblivion once per day. In addition to taking normal damage and losing 1d4 prepared arcane spells (or 1d4 unused daily arcane spell slots), the foe completely loses knowledge of the lost spells. Spellcasters who lose knowledge of spells may later attempt a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + spell level + the arcanopath's Wisdom modifier) to regain each one. Failure indicates the spell is unavailable until the next time the spellcaster advances a level, at which time the spellcaster automatically relearns all her forgotten spells (as well as gains knowledge of new spells as normal for the class).

The Arcanopath PrC has several abilities that are pretty solid for any martial that wants to take on casters (obviously, not good enough though), such as the important half of Exceptional Deflection at ECL 9 and the ability to make melee attacks on ethereal creatures at ECL 13, but these are the two that make it onto this list. This PrC is doing a lot of good things, but it's still not good enough to really compete with casters...but that doesn't mean these abilities can't be put to fantastic use by somebody sniping them up.


Monster Lore (Ex): At 2nd level, you gain uncanny knowledge about all types of living monsters, including their habitats, behavior, abilities, and weaknesses. You can make a special monster lore check to identify monsters or their special abilities or vulnerabilities. The check functions as a Knowledge check (PH 78), except the monster lore check can identify any living creature. You gain a bonus on this check equal to your beast heart adept level + your Int modifier. You can attempt this check in addition to making the relevant Knowledge check to learn about a creature.

If you have levels in the bard class or the loremaster prestige class, you can add those levels to your beast heart adept levels when determining the bonus on the monster lore check.

Add your Int, your BHA levels, and any levels you have in Bard or Loremaster together, and pretend that's your bonus for any knowledge skill relating to creature identification/stats. Particularly abusable on a build that would want Knowledge Devotion but doesn't have the skill points to invest in six knowledge skills. In fact, even if you've invested, this is still useful because it doesn't replace normal knowledge checks, but rather is made in addition to them.


Mindsee: At 2nd level, you gain the ability to remember a single scene perfectly, in exhaustive detail, not forgetting it until she desires to. This is a "frozen moment", chosen by silent act of will, of something you see. It retains the focus, field of view, and lighting conditions of your viewing. For every additional court herald level attained, you gain the ability to memorize an additional scene (without relinquishing the first one). These scenes can be retained for years, vanishing only upon your death, the physical loss of your brain, or as the result of certain spell attacks. Court heralds typically use this power to remember a blazon perfectly for later copying or comparison, but can also use it to keep a perfect likeness of a being in mind, remember who was present at a particular meeting, or the presence and precise description of particular items.

Ignoring how strangely that ability name rolls off the tongue, this is the kind of ability this guide was made for: weird little abilities that do strange things not often seen in the system, that can be combined with other things to much more useful effect. At any one time, you can have a single "frame" of your own visual field perfectly etched into your mind, without requiring any action on your part, and you can drop it for a new one as you please. Won't come up too often, but when it does...it's quite a neat little trick.


At 2nd level and again at 5th level, you can select a nation from the following list: Aundair, Breland, Darguun, Karrnath, the Mournland, the Talenta Plains, Thrane, Valenar, Zilargo. While in this region, you gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Survival checks and a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by the ranger's favored enemy class feature.

You can permanently change an enemy region by taking a free action and spending 2 action points.

This is essentially Favored Enemy (Nation in Khorvaire) that you can change with 2 action points and a free action. Oh, and it'll stack with Favored Enemy, for those of you who want to play a racist who's also got nationalist pride for a nation that doesn't exist anymore. Wait...that's a little on the nose. :smalltongue:


Moving the Shadow (Ex): At 4th level, a Daidoji bodyguard learns the techniques of taking advantage of an opponent's armor. The Daidoji bodyguard gains a dodge bonus to his AC equal to the armor check penalty (if any) of the opponent striking him.

Seriously, what even is this ability? Highly useful against an army of heavily-armored martial combatants who haven't gotten their armor's ACP down, I suppose?


Cheat Death: Upon reaching 7th level, your mastery over death and dying has progressed to the point where you can deny a foe the ability to send you into death's embrace in a single, cowardly blow. Whenever anyone attempts a coup de grace on you, you automatically make the subsequent Fortitude save (see pages 153—154 of the Player's Handbook). The attacker still deals just as much damage as she normally would, and you could still die from that damage. Similarly, when you take massive damage (50 or more points of damage from a single attack), you automatically succeed on the Fortitude save to survive the associated trauma (see page 145 of the Player's Handbook), although you can be killed by sheer damage dealt.

This ability lets you auto-pass the Fort save vs death from a coup de grace (which tend to have massive DCs) or massive damage (which can occur frequently in high-DPR games that use this rule), some of the only nonmagical non-death-effect SoDs in the game - and certainly the easiest to pull off with any kind of regularity in most games. Most DMs don't play with massive damage rules, and aren't fond of having you wake up to an assassin slitting your throat (since it makes for a whiny half-hour after you fail the save), but if you expect either of these to come up frequently, this ability will be a literal lifesaver.

[pabelfly]

I like Psion Uncarnate. Gives you incorporeality as a class ability that improves throughout the class's life, including the ability to make your gear incorporeal, and the level 10 capstone is that you can always be incorporeal. You can also do melee touch attack damage (up to 3d6 per touch attack at level 9) while incorporeal.

Still trying to figure out a way to really make use of the class and its ability.

[Venger]

Well, that thread sounds like it'll be a blast. I can't wait to post in it whenever you get around to uploading it.

the spider breath (https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/845/260/5e8.jpg)

arcanopath dope slap (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocooki e.net%2Favatar%2Fimages%2F1%2F19%2FAmon1.JPG%2Frev ision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130410184249%26path-prefix%3Dde&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcolorear.myhydros.org%2Fth e-legend-of-korra-amon-resists-tarrlok-s-bloodbending%2Feast-coast-nerds-april-2012&docid=IN2RCCXq8P9lwM&tbnid=v4-69CcwwivhYM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjM39u2uMDjAhWTbc0KHfrLAwQQMwgsKAAwAA.. i&w=1235&h=623&itg=1&hl=en&bih=723&biw=1536&q=kids%20choice%20awards%202010&ved=0ahUKEwjM39u2uMDjAhWTbc0KHfrLAwQQMwgsKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8)

I cooked for death delver iron chef. I literally forgot it had this ability. I've never even heard of anyone who played with massive damage rules. Any competent player or monster is dealing 50+ damage with every attack at mid levels.

I think mindsee might dethrone master inquisitive's "roleplaying you have to pay for" as most worthless class feature. Your superpower that you have to pay class levels for is... remembering things. Sometimes. A little.

daidoji bodyguard leaves me dumbstruck. did they want you to like, put your enemies in really heavy armor somehow? is that a power you have?

[AvatarVecna]

This isn't part of that same guide, that's just PrCs, but these have stuck in my mind from years chargening.


Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell causes a powerful transformation in the target creature. Outwardly, the target doesn't appear any different. On the inside, the creature's internal organs constantly seethe and slither about, and actively avoid being struck at by weapons. For the duration of the spell, the target is immune to extra damage from critical hits and sneak attacks. Additionally, the target takes minimum possible damage from falls and gains a +4 enhancement bonus on all saving throws against poison, disease, and paralysis.

Undulant Innards makes crits, precision, and falling damage not matter for the duration. While I can't imagine very many situations where I would cast it during a fight, its low-level makes it prime real estate for persisting or building into an item.


Divination
Level: Brahmin 3
Components: V,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

You extend your senses to become one with all beings and objects within a 30-foot-radius sphere centered on you.
You see and feel everything sensed by every person, creature, and object in that area.
The onrush of sensory information gives you a +20 bonus on your Search, Spot, and Listen checks for the duration of the spell.
In addition, you are never considered flat-footed while the spell duration lasts, and you cannot be flanked unless every other creature within 30 feet of you is also flanked.

...you probably can't cast this one, cuz who even plays Brahmin? But if your DM lets you build this into an item that for the love of god do it. Even if your DM decides that this spell doesn't give blindsight/blindsense, it still gives +20 to perception skills, FF immunity, and flanking immunity unless every other creature within 30 ft is also flanked. FF and flanking immunity that isn't tied into uncanny dodge and thus can't be bypassed by things that bypass UD specifically are...nice.


Transmutation
Level: Druid 3, Ranger 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You cause a creature's natural armor to crystallize and become brittle. Whenever the affected creature is hit in combat, part of the crystallized hide cracks and shatters, dealing it additional lethal damage equal to its natural armor bonus. Thus, if a creature with +3 natural armor is affected by this spell, it takes an extra 3 points of damage each time it is struck by a melee, ranged, or natural weapon. The creature's actual Armor Class does not change.

Shining South is at it again with the weird ****. It's a shame this isn't broad enough to apply to spell attacks or it'd be just golden for a mailman build. Oh and because it's a popular spell when making casters with high NA, I should mention that Scintillating Scales no-sells this.


Well, that thread sounds like it'll be a blast. I can't wait to post in it whenever you get around to uploading it.

the spider breath (https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/845/260/5e8.jpg)

arcanopath dope slap (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocooki e.net%2Favatar%2Fimages%2F1%2F19%2FAmon1.JPG%2Frev ision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130410184249%26path-prefix%3Dde&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcolorear.myhydros.org%2Fth e-legend-of-korra-amon-resists-tarrlok-s-bloodbending%2Feast-coast-nerds-april-2012&docid=IN2RCCXq8P9lwM&tbnid=v4-69CcwwivhYM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjM39u2uMDjAhWTbc0KHfrLAwQQMwgsKAAwAA.. i&w=1235&h=623&itg=1&hl=en&bih=723&biw=1536&q=kids%20choice%20awards%202010&ved=0ahUKEwjM39u2uMDjAhWTbc0KHfrLAwQQMwgsKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8)

I cooked for death delver iron chef. I literally forgot it had this ability. I've never even heard of anyone who played with massive damage rules. Any competent player or monster is dealing 50+ damage with every attack at mid levels.

I think mindsee might dethrone master inquisitive's "roleplaying you have to pay for" as most worthless class feature. Your superpower that you have to pay class levels for is... remembering things. Sometimes. A little.

daidoji bodyguard leaves me dumbstruck. did they want you to like, put your enemies in really heavy armor somehow? is that a power you have?

It's been...slow-going. Y'know how it goes, passion grabs you one day and leaves you bored the next so you only get like a sixth of the way into things... :smalltongue:

Yeah, I can't imagine that Death Delver ability was very lauded in that IC round. PCs are usually either playing games where they don't expect to get CdG'd, or they are and they take precautions...and those precautions are useful for more than just "don't get my throat slit while I'm sleeping" so even taking this class isn't useful just for the pleasure of not sleeping in the Rope Trick, and that's about the only time I'd expect to get CdG'd in most games. But maybe you're facing some kinda creature that hands CdGs out like candy. In fact, the lead-in to the guide calls out the not-infrequent epic X-stalt circle-jerk game that pops up here ITP, and in those kinds of games, sniping this ability to have Ex immunity to CdGs because the DM might well throw a Hypermundane at you and you need a defense against Heroic Killing Blows. Outside of that, it's...just another one of those "immunities I sniped just to make my list of immunities longer". And yeah, most any game you use this in you won't have to worry about death from massive damage - either you took the class straight cuz it's a low-op game and nobody deals enough damage to trigger it, or it's high-op and you sniped it, and the DM turned that rule off cuz it'd just make for a lot of tedious rolling that won't end up mattering no matter how it turns out.

See, I think Mindsee has some value. Yeah, mostly if a player says "I want to see how much my PC remembers", it's a simple Int-check away, and usually not a very hard one. But getting the level of detail described by the ability without having to make any kind of roll is pretty nice...especially if you can combine it with divinations that let you extend your visual senses elsewhere. That it basically can't be taken away from you is also pretty nice. It's still definitely a niche ability though.

Daidoji Bodyguard is maybe a little useful in like...one situation that's worth mentioning. The bonus given is a dodge bonus, so it applies to Touch AC, but it's only really useful against opponents wearing heavy armor that haven't reduced it. While this is obviously intended for facing down a small army of warriors who could afford full plate but not mithril full plate, it's greater value is going to be in facing Bad Touch caster builds that prefer heavier armor. Clerics who aren't shooting their attack bonus into the stratosphere, warmages in heavy who ignore the ASF but not the ACP and spam energy orbs at you, handsy bards who think they're paladins of sexual freedom...

...it's an edge case, but at least I can say that the ability isn't worthless because it makes some casters have a lot harder time fighting you, and that's not nothing.

[Venger]

undulent innards is pretty interesting, but 3rd is too expensive.

What the hell is a brahmin? I've never even heard of that class before. Well done. pretty good spell, too. I assume it's a divine class?

brittleskin is a fascinating if utterly worthless spell. anything with good na, like a troll or dinosaur or whatever, is gonna have a huge fort save, so you're not going to waste your time casting fortneg crap on them. you're going to target ref with a status or zap them with ray of stupidity. there is no situation where this is the best response.

in my experience, both as a gm and a player, when someone says "oh yeah, we tell him about that guy we met, the one with the beard and what he found in the journal. you know who I mean" the gm will just say "yeah, it's only been an hour from your character's pov, Urik was his name. you fill in the king on what you've learned." I've never even heard of someone calling for a character int-check based on a player's bad memory or lack of note-taking skills. I'm sure it happens, though. it's certainly flavorful, i'll give you that

a gm sending a huge battalion of guards with mithral fullplate is the adamantine door problem writ large. I hope all my gms do that. who needs to adventure when the loot just waddles right up to you? generally, touch-based casters don't want to engage physically being casters and will use familiars, spectral hands, etc, but if you're fighting a suel arcanamach or something weird, I guess it could help you. I hope you have your wand of mage burr handy.

[AvatarVecna]

What the hell is a brahmin? I've never even heard of that class before. Well done. pretty good spell, too. I assume it's a divine class?

I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it, because it only very technically exists. You see, "Oriental Adventures" kinda addresses the problem that it's a "Asia-ish" setting book, and Asia is kinda...big. So some of the classes in the book have alternate names for the three "Oriental" cultures the book is concerned with: Chinese-ish, Japanese-ish, and Indian-ish. "Brahmin" is the Indian-ish alternate name for the OA Shaman class. Oh but it gets even better, because That Art Thou isn't even actually in Oriental Adventures, it's in a web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a) campaign setting that, among other things, introduces two new Shaman Brahmin domains and one new spell, which is specific to the Brahmin domain "Meditation", which is different from the cleric domain "Meditation". In any case, Clerics and...whatever you choose to call that class with the "Shaman" entry in OA can't swap domains between each other.

...which makes "That Art Thou" a setting-specific web enhancement one-class-only spell. And it's an amazing spell.


brittleskin is a fascinating if utterly worthless spell. anything with good na, like a troll or dinosaur or whatever, is gonna have a huge fort save, so you're not going to waste your time casting fortneg crap on them. you're going to target ref with a status or zap them with ray of stupidity. there is no situation where this is the best response.

Oh indeed it's just a worthless attack spell. But it's such an odd duck that it sticks in my mind despite itself.

[Asmotherion]

prc
Not sure if it's obscure but with Conjuration being my favorite school i have to say Malconvoker. Plus everyone is aware of the incantatrix so it's definitely not obscure anymore.

feat
Poison Spell; Fell Drain may be better but i still love it. Plus you can potentially use it with positoxins to be able to affect undead.

spell
A metamagically enhanced Cloud of knives; invisible+Percistant+Fell Drain.

item
knowstones; Practically the Sorcerer's Spell Scroll. Great for balancing out the Sorcerer with the Wizard.

There's also the Slippers of Battledancing+Gloves of Heartfelt Blows to add an extra instance of you Cha Mod to Attack/Damage with a Decastave/Thunderlance; With a bit of investment turn your mage into a great Gish.

race
Spellscales; Not only Dragonic but you also get a low investment huge bonus to Spellcraft.

[ben-zayb]

Good thing is That Art Thou being a divination spell, so Unseen Seers should be able to grab it. It matches the Seer flavor too.

[PraxisVetli]

Also I may be wrong but I think they’re the only player race with a bite attack that isn’t something cherry picked out of a monster manual.

Poison Dusk Lizardfolk get a bite, though you very well might count that as 'cherry picked out of a Monster Manual'




subsequent uses are only a move action (based on the general rule for directing and redirecting spells).
Can I get a citation for this?

Nevermind, I found it.
Wow, that's good to know.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

One of these days I'm going to build an Artificer whose purpose in life is creating the swankiest ship ever.

Lightning Turbine: from the Arms & Equipment Guide. Doubles the speed of any vehicle it's attached to in a storm (or brings it up to 90ft, whichever is greater).

Lightning Ballista: from Heroes of Battle. Instead of normal ammo, fires a line of lightning. The once per minute limitation handicaps its usefulness, but in a storm it can fire every other round...

Stormship: from one of the Eberron books (I think it was Explorer's?); not too obscure, but often passed over in favor of the other elemental vehicles. It's fast, durable, relatively maneuverable, causes random lightning strikes around itself that the captain can direct... and it creates a constant storm around itself.

Combine the three and you end up with an absurdly fast vehicle that spews AOE lightning effects. Add on a Cloud Keel or an Earth Keel (both also from AEG) to become all terrain.

[AvatarVecna]

Good thing is That Art Thou being a divination spell, so Unseen Seers should be able to grab it. It matches the Seer flavor too.

Oh yeah it's a lovely spell for just being impossible to catch off-guard. Setting up a flank becomes even more of a pain than it normally is because the flankers have to be flanked themselves...well I guess not necessary if they're both somehow using 30 ft reach weapons (maybe flanked by colossal creatures?). But for most situations PCs find themselves in, it more or less necessitates a 15-person line alternating between sides with you in the middle. :smalltongue:

[Heliomance]

occasionally I wake up in a cold sweat and fear that ballisteer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b) will be the new ingredient for iron chef, but every time, I've been wrong.

Ooh, I hadn't come across that class before

[Particle_Man]

A wand of that art thou would be gold to anyone with high umd, especially a warlock.

Wow the ballister kind of leaves arcane archer crying in the corner.

This is pre3rd but I like the Sentinel npc class from dragon magazine. It was a guard that could actually see sneaky bad guys coming. These days an urban ranger could probably mimic it well enough.

[The Viscount]

Ooh, I hadn't come across that class before

You've done it now, Venger. Our round 100's going to be Ballisteer now.

[Piggy Knowles]

Oh Gods, please no. Anything that even references psionic combat should be scrubbed from existence. It's the only way we'll ever move on from the shame of the original 3.0 Psionics Handbook.

[Venger]

Ooh, I hadn't come across that class before


You've done it now, Venger. Our round 100's going to be Ballisteer now.

The prophecy fulfills itself.

brb gouging out my eyes

[daremetoidareyo]

The prophecy fulfills itself.

brb gouging out my eyes

I made a ballisteer once. It works on a human. Death attacks from a mile away!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20332970&postcount=42

[Zombulian]

Poison Dusk Lizardfolk get a bite, though you very well might count that as 'cherry picked out of a Monster Manual.’

Well... seeing as the race is from MMIII I believe it does in fact fit that condition :smalltongue: Cool race though.
You reminded me though, there’s the Viletooth Lizardfolk alternate race in Dragon Magic which has an acid bite. Neat. But also they still have 2RHD and +1 LA.

[Venger]

I made a ballisteer once. It works on a human. Death attacks from a mile away!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20332970&postcount=42

Please, no speculation until the deadline.

[Troacctid]

No. They. Weren’t.

*sigh* Nearly 10 years of this, seriously.

There are two mechanically and editorially different suites of game assets called Naga in Oriental Adventures (L5R d20). Both of them have several Naga subspecies called bloodlines (as if we didn’t use that term enough in d20). One of them is explicitly called out as a PC option whereas the other is a “monster” race where several subspecies have high amounts of LA and HD. The former was NOT updated in 3.5 and thus explicitly grandfathered into 3.0, while the latter was seriously nerfed because the 3.0 monster Naga had such a small LA/HD requirement for its weaker subspecies that it was almost as good a deal as Lolth-Touched.

I said nearly all this in the first post, btw.

This happens every time.



Yes. You’re not reading the right entry. You’re not reading my whole post.

Please read the post.

Look up the entry I cited. . . not the entry you searched. Did I cite Dragon magazine? Nope. You know why? Because the PC stats weren’t updated in Dragon magazine — just the monster stats. There are no monster entries for the PC Naga options in d20 at all.

(And thank God there aren’t, or it would be even more confusing.)

I swear, this subject is the only time where giving a citation on the internet literally feels worse than giving none at all. I kinda wish Dragon had updated the PC version — people read it more than the OA supplement.

I don’t think this is anyone’s fault, btw. I seriously think this aspect of d20 is just cursed.
So you're saying the version you quoted was not actually from a D&D book but rather from another totally separate d20 system book. How does that even count? It's kind of like asking why nobody ever mentions the HK G3 assault rifle from d20 Modern or the Force Sensitive feat from d20 Star Wars. Except it's even further from canon than that, because those were at least 1st party supplements for alternative systems, whereas Rokugan Campaign Setting isn't even from Wizards of the Coast, and it's a piece of content that already has an official version that should supersede the 3rd party version due to primary source rules (and having the more recent 3.5 update).

[Celestia]

Prestige class: Thrall of Fraz-Urb'luu. Have you seen that 10th level ability? It lets you turn an illusion into reality. That's free magic items with Nystul's magic aura right there. Plus it adds a bunch of illusion spells to your spell list, or, if you're a warlock, even better, gives them to you as SLAs, which means no material components for simulacrum and ice assassin.
I've never seen that class before, but it looks so cool. It may lose three caster levels, but that's not too big a deal for warlocks (especially with the ruling that practiced spellcaster boosts blast damage). But man, these are some nice class features. With Naberius, that's infinite charges on all staffs as early as level 12. Christ. :smalleek:

[tyckspoon]

You've done it now, Venger. Our round 100's going to be Ballisteer now.

"Infused Shot (Su): The ballisteer's ammo becomes infused with psionic energy as it is used in a ranged attack. His ranged attacks now do additional energy damage equal to that of the ammo used. For example, a thrown dagger now does 1d4 points of damage + 1d4 points of psionic energy damage + any other bonuses. Infused shots can be enhanced with energy shot or explosive shot."

Somebody's going to just straight ignore the entire rest of the class and bring in a Ballisteer + Hulking Hurler to try to optimize this.

(Not even that hard to make it 3.5 compatible, just.. completely disregard any reference to 'psionic attack and defense modes' and update Psionic Sidestep to 'must maintain Psionic Focus', assuming that wasn't already done in some other material somewhere.)

[Meditation]

So you're saying the version you quoted was not actually from a D&D book but rather from another totally separate d20 system book.

No, I’m not saying that. You’re saying that. I don’t know why you’re saying that. Why are you saying that?

Y’know what. You didn’t even say that before.

Someone else, on the first page of this thread, mentioned the following:


Item: The Dastana and Chahar-Aina from Oriental Adventures. An additional +1 stacking armor bonus each for bargain-bin prices. Slap on masterwork to reduce the penalty and you've got an item any character with light armor can use.

Did you question the legality of Oriental Adventures then?

Oriental Adventures is literally 3.0 legal which is why it had an update to bring some of it into 3.5.


Except it's even further from canon than that, because those were at least 1st party supplements for alternative systems, whereas Rokugan Campaign Setting isn't even from Wizards of the Coast

The book I cited was literally grandfathered into 3.5 because it is 3.0 material.


it's a piece of content that already has an official version that should supersede

— except they’re not the same entry and not the same content and that was pointed out in the initial post.

[Venger]

I made a ballisteer once. It works on a human. Death attacks from a mile away!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20332970&postcount=42
I probably said this at the actual time, but that build is a thing of beauty. Makes spoons mcgee look like a wimp.


"Infused Shot (Su): The ballisteer's ammo becomes infused with psionic energy as it is used in a ranged attack. His ranged attacks now do additional energy damage equal to that of the ammo used. For example, a thrown dagger now does 1d4 points of damage + 1d4 points of psionic energy damage + any other bonuses. Infused shots can be enhanced with energy shot or explosive shot."

Somebody's going to just straight ignore the entire rest of the class and bring in a Ballisteer + Hulking Hurler to try to optimize this.

(Not even that hard to make it 3.5 compatible, just.. completely disregard any reference to 'psionic attack and defense modes' and update Psionic Sidestep to 'must maintain Psionic Focus', assuming that wasn't already done in some other material somewhere.)
(crumples up my hulking hurler stub and throws it in the trash)
you guys are killing me here.

[animewatcha]

"Infused Shot (Su): The ballisteer's ammo becomes infused with psionic energy as it is used in a ranged attack. His ranged attacks now do additional energy damage equal to that of the ammo used. For example, a thrown dagger now does 1d4 points of damage + 1d4 points of psionic energy damage + any other bonuses. Infused shots can be enhanced with energy shot or explosive shot."

Somebody's going to just straight ignore the entire rest of the class and bring in a Ballisteer + Hulking Hurler to try to optimize this.

(Not even that hard to make it 3.5 compatible, just.. completely disregard any reference to 'psionic attack and defense modes' and update Psionic Sidestep to 'must maintain Psionic Focus', assuming that wasn't already done in some other material somewhere.)

Hurling Hurler?

What about monk unarmed strike with throwing shenanigans? If you include dragon magazine, Hello beast strike feat.

[Mr Adventurer]

Prestige class: Thrall of Fraz-Urb'luu. Have you seen that 10th level ability? It lets you turn an illusion into reality. That's free magic items with Nystul's magic aura right there.

Just an item that genuinely has those magical auras, but no other effect, surely?

[The Viscount]

So what page of OA is that Naga found in? When I looked in mine all I saw were the Shinomen Nagas.

[Zombulian]

No, I’m not saying that. You’re saying that. I don’t know why you’re saying that. Why are you saying that?

Y’know what. You didn’t even say that before.

Someone else, on the first page of this thread, mentioned the following:



Did you question the legality of Oriental Adventures then?

Oriental Adventures is literally 3.0 legal which is why it had an update to bring some of it into 3.5.



The book I cited was literally grandfathered into 3.5 because it is 3.0 material.



— except they’re not the same entry and not the same content and that was pointed out in the initial post.

I think you may be confusing the Rokugan Campaign Setting with OA.

[tyckspoon]

Hurling Hurler?

What about monk unarmed strike with throwing shenanigans? If you include dragon magazine, Hello beast strike feat.

Hulking Hurler gets bigger damage dice than anything with sufficient optimization, but that could be entertaining along with the incorporeal/ethereal/phasing shot abilities if you go with the 'you throw your entire body' interpretation.

[Mike Miller]

No, I’m not saying that. You’re saying that. I don’t know why you’re saying that. Why are you saying that?.

You literally cited L5R d20.


. There are two mechanically and editorially different suites of game assets called Naga in Oriental Adventures (L5R d20)

[ayvango]

Hurling Hurler?

What about monk unarmed strike with throwing shenanigans?
That sort of shenanigans where monk is treated as weapon? Like adding Crystal of Adamant Weaponry could grant a monk hardness value.

[Luccan]

Talaire is an interesting race made of 6 houses, each with its own psi like ability. They're found in Complete Psionic right after Synad, and I didn't see them the first time around because instead of being laid out like a normal race they're interlaced with the fluff and long history.

Isn't this just a human but they choose your bonus feat for you? The fluff is good (I plan to make use of it in a future game), but I could have sworn that was it.

Sorry if this discussion has already been had, I can't read the whole thread ATM.

[The Viscount]

Isn't this just a human but they choose your bonus feat for you? The fluff is good (I plan to make use of it in a future game), but I could have sworn that was it.

Sorry if this discussion has already been had, I can't read the whole thread ATM.

I had initially thought that, but the way they set them up is misleading. For reasons I cannot fathom they label the feat as "Wild Talent ([house])" but the benefit instead of the normal 2 pp is that the Talaire gains 1 pp and a psi-like-ability once per day (psionic minor creation, burst, psionic charm, control object, precognition, or vigor, depending on house). To the best of my knowledge this is not an ability you can mimic with a feat.

[Thurbane]

Speaking of online only classes, here's a list I once made (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20014038&postcount=6). AFAIK, It's complete.


The Guide to free D&D (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=513.0) has most (all?) links to online materials (or at least, the old links before they were archived), including web-article only materials.

Hope that's useful.

If I find myself at a loose end, I'll see if I can dig up active links for the online only PrCs.

[edit]

===================

3.0:a

Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a)
Arch Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20021122b)
Ballisteer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b)
Celestial Paragon (epic) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a)
Cerebral Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030207b) (not to be confused with this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyk85mXpbG4)).
Conventioneer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20010420a) (joke class)
Crystalsinger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20011123b)
Dark Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030315a)
Devotee of Sardior, Defender of Sardior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030926a)
Diamond Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20020927b)
Guardian of the Road (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030623a)
Kineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030328b)
Lady/Lord of the Dead (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x)
Life Eater (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20020911b)
Master Arcane Artisan (Epic) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030314a)
Meditant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20020623b)
Mindknight (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20020819a)
Percipient (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031024a)
Planar Vanguard (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a)
Psionic Dragon Comrade, Dragon Defender (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040327a)
Ruby Disciple (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030124c)
Seradessian Covert (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040227a)
Truth Seeker (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20020623c)
Void Incarnate (epic) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a)
Warlord of Utterdark (epic) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/editpost.php?p=20014038&do=editpost)


===================

3.5:

Avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a) (possible joke class)
Body Leech (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a)
Child of Khyber (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a)
Cold Iron Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a)
Constructor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b)
Courtier (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030905a)
Crystal Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d)
Dwarven Chanter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a)
Eye of Xanathar (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061107b)
Halfling Whistler (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061121a)
Master Harper (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20030604a)
Psychic Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d)
Psychic Theurge (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b)
Psychic Weapon Master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d)
Sangehirn (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c)
Silverwood Arcanist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031209a)
Silverwood Outrider (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031202a)
Soul Manifester (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)
Subverted Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a)
Swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)



===================

If I've missed any, messed anything up, or you can find the ones marked (?), please let me know. :smallwink:

[Zombulian]

Speaking of online only classes, here's a list I once made (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20014038&postcount=6). AFAIK, It's complete.



Unless there’s a source that I’m not aware of, this is missing Psychic Rogue.

[Venger]

wow, what a great post. I've heard of like six of those. time to read

[Thurbane]

Unless there’s a source that I’m not aware of, this is missing Psychic Rogue.

Is that a base class, or a PrC?

[WhamBamSam]

Isn't this just a human but they choose your bonus feat for you? The fluff is good (I plan to make use of it in a future game), but I could have sworn that was it.

Sorry if this discussion has already been had, I can't read the whole thread ATM.There's also a sidebar that I don't think has been mentioned yet about discovering your Talaire heritage later on in life, in which case you can trade away any feat you like (say your otherwise not very useful Endurance feat as a Ranger) for your Talaire Wild Talent.

[Crichton]

Is that a base class, or a PrC?

Base class:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723bhttp://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b

[Luccan]

I had initially thought that, but the way they set them up is misleading. For reasons I cannot fathom they label the feat as "Wild Talent ([house])" but the benefit instead of the normal 2 pp is that the Talaire gains 1 pp and a psi-like-ability once per day (psionic minor creation, burst, psionic charm, control object, precognition, or vigor, depending on house). To the best of my knowledge this is not an ability you can mimic with a feat.

Huh. Weird. But looking at House Adon (the one freely available online for some reason) backs up your point. For some reason my brain just went "oh they must have meant Hidden Talent" and then skipped over the once-per-day line. Which also makes them weaker than a human who took Hidden Talent, weirdly.

[Zombulian]

Is that a base class, or a PrC?

Oh woops I didn’t read the name of the thread that post was in :smallredface:

Edit: Holy cow! I’d never heard of Crystal Master and it’s actually really neat.

Also I noticed that the Subverted Psion is a HoH Part I article but I can’t find any of the other parts :/

[Troacctid]

Huh. Weird. But looking at House Adon (the one freely available online for some reason) backs up your point. For some reason my brain just went "oh they must have meant Hidden Talent" and then skipped over the once-per-day line. Which also makes them weaker than a human who took Hidden Talent, weirdly.
Hidden Talent gives you a power off the psion/wilder list. Talaires get discipline powers. None of the houses' signature powers is available through Hidden Talent IIRC.


No, I’m not saying that. You’re saying that. I don’t know why you’re saying that. Why are you saying that?

Y’know what. You didn’t even say that before.

Someone else, on the first page of this thread, mentioned the following:



Did you question the legality of Oriental Adventures then?

Oriental Adventures is literally 3.0 legal which is why it had an update to bring some of it into 3.5.



The book I cited was literally grandfathered into 3.5 because it is 3.0 material.



— except they’re not the same entry and not the same content and that was pointed out in the initial post.
Oriental Adventures is a D&D sourcebook published by Wizards of the Coast. It was published during the 3.0 era and later updated to D&D 3.5 in Dragon 318. Rokugan Campaign Setting is a d20 Rokugan sourcebook published by AEG. Totally different book. Since it uses the d20 system, it's compatible with D&D, which puts it in the same league as d20 Modern, d20 Star Wars, and Ponyfinder.

[Crichton]

Hidden Talent gives you a power off the psion/wilder list. Talaires get discipline powers. None of the houses' signature powers is available through Hidden Talent IIRC.


Hidden Talent gives you a power from "any psionic class list" which makes it much more powerful/versatile than if it was only a general psion/wilder power.

[Heliomance]

Oriental Adventures is a D&D sourcebook published by Wizards of the Coast. It was published during the 3.0 era and later updated to D&D 3.5 in Dragon 318. Rokugan Campaign Setting is a d20 Rokugan sourcebook published by AEG. Totally different book. Since it uses the d20 system, it's compatible with D&D, which puts it in the same league as d20 Modern, d20 Star Wars, and Ponyfinder.

But Meditation never mentioned Rokugan Campaign Setting. You're the one that brought that up. Meditation has been talking about Oriental Adventures all along.

[DrMotives]

Conductivity. I really want to like this feat, it seems very cool, but I think unless you made multiple characters in mind for one to have it, it'd never get used. When hit by an electrical attack, you can shoot an arc of lightning for half the damage you just took at any target within 30 feet. I can see a couple ways a party could use it, or maybe some hijinks if you get it on an advanced shocker lizard familiar, depending on how you interpret the feat's damage to work with a electrical-immune creature. But most of the time, it just won't be useful.

[AvatarVecna]

@Meditation Can I get a page quote for Oriental Adventures where a PC Naga race appears that isn't one of the five Shinomen Naga monsters on pg 172? I can't seem to find it.

EDIT: It's entirely possible you've already mentioned a page quote at some point in the argument, so my apologies if this is just asking you to repeat yourself.

[Mike Miller]

But Meditation never mentioned Rokugan Campaign Setting. You're the one that brought that up. Meditation has been talking about Oriental Adventures all along.

As I quoted above (and Meditation posted originally), he cited L5R d20. L5R includes Rokugan Campaign Setting, I believe.

[Kalkra]

Conductivity. I really want to like this feat, it seems very cool, but I think unless you made multiple characters in mind for one to have it, it'd never get used. When hit by an electrical attack, you can shoot an arc of lightning for half the damage you just took at any target within 30 feet. I can see a couple ways a party could use it, or maybe some hijinks if you get it on an advanced shocker lizard familiar, depending on how you interpret the feat's damage to work with a electrical-immune creature. But most of the time, it just won't be useful.

There's a whole thread devoted to it: Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473047-Optimize-this-Feat-2-Conductivity-from-Unearthed-Arcana)

[Heliomance]

As I quoted above (and Meditation posted originally), he cited L5R d20. L5R includes Rokugan Campaign Setting, I believe.

Oriental Adventures was a port of the Rokugan setting to D&D. It is an official D&D supplement, and is also perfectly validly described by the phrase "L5R d20". I was unaware of the existence of a separate L5R d20 system, and it wouldn't surprise me if Meditation was too. But they were only ever referring to Oriental Adventures, that being the only book on the Rokugan setting that is WotC-published and thus first party D&D 3.5.

EDIT: I stand corrected.



The Naga. Specifically, the Naga as described in Oriental Adventures: Rokugan Campaign Setting. The Naga are the only large, 0 LA race around in 3x. The complication is that there are two Naga races: one is a monster described in the Oriental Adventures Supplement and updated in Dragon magazine and the other the aforementioned race. The race description explicitly calls out its entry as a PC race, noting that the other entry is too costly for most players, and, since it did not receive any updates to 3.5, it is still RAW-legal in 3.5, though it is explicitly 3.0 material so its acceptance will be table-dependent. The Naga have bloodlines, a suite of sub-racial stats. Several of the bloodlines have LAs; of the ones without, one has bonus stats at the expense of heavy stat penalties and the other two have minor bonuses. Base stats are Con/Wis penalizing Cha.

You're all right, Meditation did indeed refer to the Rokugan Campaign Setting, which is a different book to Oriental Adventures and is not first party. Any naga described in that book are therefore not official first party content, and the stats in Oriental Adventures, later updated in Dragon, are the only official ones.

The naga Meditation is referring to are found on page 26 of the Rokugan Campaign Setting, and the three variants that don't have LA are really really good. They absolutely should have LA+1. The one that has LA+1 is worth it, the one that has LA+2 probably isn't, but would be a very good LA+1.

[Zombulian]

Oriental Adventures was a port of the Rokugan setting to D&D. It is an official D&D supplement, and is also perfectly validly described by the phrase "L5R d20". I was unaware of the existence of a separate L5R d20 system, and it wouldn't surprise me if Meditation was too. But they were only ever referring to Oriental Adventures, that being the only book on the Rokugan setting that is WotC-published and thus first party D&D 3.5.

EDIT: I stand corrected.



You're all right, Meditation did indeed refer to the Rokugan Campaign Setting, which is a different book to Oriental Adventures and is not first party. Any naga described in that book are therefore not official first party content, and the stats in Oriental Adventures, later updated in Dragon, are the only official ones.

The naga Meditation is referring to are found on page 26 of the Rokugan Campaign Setting, and the three variants that don't have LA are really really good. They absolutely should have LA+1. The one that has LA+1 is worth it, the one that has LA+2 probably isn't, but would be a very good LA+1.

I own the book. They’re really nice races. I like the Nezumi options too. But it’s not first party.

[The Viscount]

Speaking of Nezumi, I quite like Nezumi as they appear in OA. Not exactly the most obscure source for a race, but they have the unique (as far as I know) ability to at any point spend a feat and gain scent. They have the peculiar ability of unarmed strikes that deal 1d4 lethal damage, though they don't seem to override the normal rules about provoking AoO. Might be some 3.0 oddity I'm missing.

[Troacctid]

Speaking of Nezumi, I quite like Nezumi as they appear in OA. Not exactly the most obscure source for a race, but they have the unique (as far as I know) ability to at any point spend a feat and gain scent.
Dragonlance minotaurs have the same ability.

[Bphill561]

Edit: Holy cow! I’d never heard of Crystal Master and it’s actually really neat.


The Crystal singer is pretty neat too. Played in an epic game where psionics were banned, but the DM allowed magic conversion of psionic Prestige classes. An Ur-Priest crafter advanced with epic Crystal singer made for some very cheap continuous magic items.

[Thurbane]

Not super obscure, but something I'd never noticed before: the Aereni Focus feat counts as Skill Focus for reqs. This puts it up with things like Expeditious Dodge, Kobold Endurance, Shadow Blade etc. as replacements for those req feats so many things require.

[Rijan_Sai]

Maybe not the most "obscure," but I am really partial to Legion of Sentinels from PHBII (Pg. 116). A sizable mass of flankers and AoOers, and a decent defensive spell for a good choke-point. (Even better with Widen Spell! Check out the 10' radius grid vs. the 20' radius grid in the DMG; and nothing in the spell indicates that it is only and the 2D plane... it certainly seems like it would be the 3D sphere!)

One PrC I also like is Escalation Mage from Faiths of Eberron (Pg. 52). Admittedly, I haven't really read much into the lore of Shadow in Eberron, but the class doesn't really require him/her/it anyway (per the "Adaptation" section).

[The Viscount]

Maybe not the most "obscure," but I am really partial to Legion of Sentinels from PHBII (Pg. 116). A sizable mass of flankers and AoOers, and a decent defensive spell for a good choke-point. (Even better with Widen Spell! Check out the 10' radius grid vs. the 20' radius grid in the DMG; and nothing in the spell indicates that it is only and the 2D plane... it certainly seems like it would be the 3D sphere!)

One PrC I also like is Escalation Mage from Faiths of Eberron (Pg. 52). Admittedly, I haven't really read much into the lore of Shadow in Eberron, but the class doesn't really require him/her/it anyway (per the "Adaptation" section).

I'd certainly give the spell some points for obscurity in that the sentinels themselves are statted up in the errata since they didn't include the full spell description.

Escalation Mage is really cool. "Lemon rains of Xoriat" is something that really sticks in my mind.

Eberron Campaign Setting has some extra rules and sort of ACFs for base classes in the front of the book. Maybe it's just that i'm used to seeing ACFs in full formatting, but these slipped by me for a while.

[Troacctid]

Escalation Mage is really cool. "Lemon rains of Xoriat" is something that really sticks in my mind.
And it's at will, right? That's pretty sweet.

[The Viscount]

I realize now that I was talking about Escalation Mage (which is still pretty cool), but was thinking about Cataclysm Mage, which mentions the lemon rains in its Cataclysm of Flesh ability, turning enemies into the guy at the end of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream/that one episode of Batman Beyond (depending on your age and/or taste in media). It's indeed at will. The class is an excellent example of merging the lore in with mechanical features. Pity if you roll a 2 on that prophecy table and have to die, though.

[Thurbane]

I posted a thread about this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555596) a while back, but I'm honestly surprised I don't hear more about the "Mastery Of ..." feats in the PLayer's Guide to Eberron.

Admittedly, they can be a bit niche, but some of them are very good, IMHO.


So, I've just recently discovered the various "Mastery of X" feats (PgtE, p.125-126).

How was I not aware of the before? They grant free metamagic (and other) effects to certain types of spells. Free maximize on Cures/Inflicts, free enlarge on Cold/Fire spells, free extend on Enchantment spells etc.

One of the standouts for me is Mastery of Twisted Shadow: free action to give yourself concealment every time you cast an Illusion spell. Essentially, you're getting a quickened Displacement on yourself. Actually, better than quickened, since it's a free action. The duration is only 1 round per spell level, but still...

Just honestly surprised I haven't seen more mention of these feats. Is it because they're "campaign specific", or the source is a little obscure?

Cheers - T

[Venger]

Maybe not the most "obscure," but I am really partial to Legion of Sentinels from PHBII (Pg. 116). A sizable mass of flankers and AoOers, and a decent defensive spell for a good choke-point. (Even better with Widen Spell! Check out the 10' radius grid vs. the 20' radius grid in the DMG; and nothing in the spell indicates that it is only and the 2D plane... it certainly seems like it would be the 3D sphere!)

One PrC I also like is Escalation Mage from Faiths of Eberron (Pg. 52). Admittedly, I haven't really read much into the lore of Shadow in Eberron, but the class doesn't really require him/her/it anyway (per the "Adaptation" section).

It's a wonderful candidate for your arcane thesis. Talk to your adviser:

invisible spell
sculpt spell
endless hilarity

[Ellyth]

On the subject of Invisible Spell, there’s a line in Complete Arcane that says “because” sudden metamagic spells have no level adjustment, warlocks can use them on their invocations. Some unreasonable generalization later, and Invisible Spell can apply to invocations (yes, I know this is really dubious RAW when you consider the utterly-not-primary status of the line in question).

I mention this because it’s obscure, and because invisible eldritch glaive is one of my favorite conceptual ideas in 3.5e.

Another, this one ironclad as far as RAW is concerned: half-dragons get wings and flight speed if they are Large or larger. A goliath barbarian is only truly Large while using their mountain rage. To wit, a half-dragon goliath barbarian can get so angry they spontaneously sprout massive dragon wings and take to the sky. I have never quite managed to convince myself that this absurdity was worth actually trying to play an LA +4 character, but it certainly is tempting.

Oh! That reminds me of another: Tome of Magic has a creature called “murder of crows,” which is a “Tiny Animal (Swarm).” That’s exciting, because swarms are not usually Tiny, they’re usually Fine or Diminutive, and for that matter they’re usually Vermin rather than Animals. Being a Tiny Animal means that a murder of crows is a legal choice for the lycanthrope template for a Small character. Another one I have never quite been willing to actually try to play, since 4 RHD and LA +2 is brutal, but it is an awesome image.

Also, I totally would have mentioned cataclysm mage and escalation mage if they hadn’t been already. Those are great.

[WhamBamSam]

I posted a thread about this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?555596) a while back, but I'm honestly surprised I don't hear more about the "Mastery Of ..." feats in the PLayer's Guide to Eberron.

Admittedly, they can be a bit niche, but some of them are very good, IMHO.What's the one that works on Fire/Cold? Any spell can be [Cold] with Snowcasting, so that's a potentially interesting thing I wasn't previously aware of.

[Venger]

What's the one that works on Fire/Cold? Any spell can be [Cold] with Snowcasting, so that's a potentially interesting thing I wasn't previously aware of.

that'd be mastery of ice and fire. spontaneous enlarge.

[animewatcha]

" murder of crows " Can it be combined with vampire template or something for the whole 'turn into bats/crows' thing?

[unseenmage]

A friend pointed this little gem out to me. Am already trying to weaponize it.



Halaster’s Drifting Portals

Waterdeep book page 154:

The mad archmage of Undermountain long ago devised a number of unique properties for the portals he created in his terrible dungeon, including the odd drifting portals.
A drifting portal has its origin or terminus tied to a general area, not a specific fixed location. The creator of the portal must specify whether this spell affects the origin of a portal or the terminus of a portal during the creation of the device. Such portals drift continuously and randomly within the radius specified by the portal builder (anything from 10 to 1,000 feet from the focal point) at a rate of 10 feet per round. To determine the random motion of a drifting portal, roll 1d6 three times per minute to determine a portal’s movement; 1–2 means up, left, or forward; 3–4 means no change, no change, or no change; 5–6 means down, right, or backward).
A portal’s creator can direct its path through active concentration, which requires a standard action. Once the creator ceases concentration, the portal resumes its random drift until concentration is resumed. A portal with the drifting property costs 50% more than it otherwise would.

[Mr Adventurer]

" murder of crows " Can it be combined with vampire template or something for the whole 'turn into bats/crows' thing?

Libris Mortis already has a Swarmform template for undead - though I can't remember whether animal swarms are legitimate under the template

[The Viscount]

Libris Mortis already has a Swarmform template for undead - though I can't remember whether animal swarms are legitimate under the template

The Swarmshifter template restricts you to a list, though bat and rat are among the swarm forms you can take.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Speaking of templates, the Symbiotic Creature template from Savage Species is incredibly cool. Unfortunately, even the most conservative reading of its LA value is supremely abusable. Look no further than my Siege Tower build for proof of that. Flight, dragon breath, maneuvers, and 22 attacks per round at level 8. (That's before the E8 epic feats, too).

[Anthrowhale]

Another, this one ironclad as far as RAW is concerned: half-dragons get wings and flight speed if they are Large or larger. A goliath barbarian is only truly Large while using their mountain rage. To wit, a half-dragon goliath barbarian can get so angry they spontaneously sprout massive dragon wings and take to the sky. I have never quite managed to convince myself that this absurdity was worth actually trying to play an LA +4 character, but it certainly is tempting.

If you are using level buy-off and savage progressions (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), this seems feasible as a late-blooming ability. At level 3 buy off Goliath and then take a level of half-dragon, buying it off at level 6, take a level of half-dragon buying it off at level 9, and then take the last level of half-dragon buying it off at level 12. Since experience is a river, you'll only be a level-or-so behind throughout the progression and you end up with rage wings as a mid-level character.

[Mr Adventurer]

If you are using level buy-off and savage progressions (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), this seems feasible as a late-blooming ability. At level 3 buy off Goliath and then take a level of half-dragon, buying it off at level 6, take a level of half-dragon buying it off at level 9, and then take the last level of half-dragon buying it off at level 12. Since experience is a river, you'll only be a level-or-so behind throughout the progression and you end up with rage wings as a mid-level character.

Even better: be a Web Enhancement kobold, take 3 levels of Stoneblessed (Goliath), then take the Goliath Barbarian sub levels. You're Small, but count as Tiny when that is more beneficial, unless you Rage, when you become Large (but possibly still count as Tiny if that would be beneficial?).

[Velaryon]

I always thought the Recurring Villain Ghostwalker from Sword and Fist was really cool. It isn't particularly powerful, it has garbage prerequisites, and its abilities would not be terribly useful for most PC characters, but it very much looks like it was custom-built to provide a recurring martial antagonist for a fairly low-optimization campaign.

The Ghostwalker gets big bonuses in combat against enemies they've fought before (if they lost more than 50% of their max hp in a previous encounter anyway), two ways to escape combat (feign death and etherealness), and a way to move fairly quickly over long distances. It's even got a story hook disguised as a class feature, in that most of their class abilities turn off if their opponents know their true name.

This just screams "BBEG's lieutenant" to me.

[Thurbane]

I always thought the Recurring Villain Ghostwalker from Sword and Fist was really cool. It isn't particularly powerful, it has garbage prerequisites, and its abilities would not be terribly useful for most PC characters, but it very much looks like it was custom-built to provide a recurring martial antagonist for a fairly low-optimization campaign.

The Ghostwalker gets big bonuses in combat against enemies they've fought before (if they lost more than 50% of their max hp in a previous encounter anyway), two ways to escape combat (feign death and etherealness), and a way to move fairly quickly over long distances. It's even got a story hook disguised as a class feature, in that most of their class abilities turn off if their opponents know their true name.

This just screams "BBEG's lieutenant" to me.

I love the flavour of this PrC. For some reason I always get it mixed up in my head with Ghost Faced Killer, and, bizarrely, Black Dog. :smalleek:

It made an interesting Iron Chef round - Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?198921). Gossamer Knights (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=11083556&postcount=76) was the winning entry.

[Miss Disaster]

A friend pointed this little gem out to me. Am already trying to weaponize it.



Halaster’s Drifting Portals

Waterdeep book page 154:

The mad archmage of Undermountain long ago devised a number of unique properties for the portals he created in his terrible dungeon, including the odd drifting portals.
A drifting portal has its origin or terminus tied to a general area, not a specific fixed location. The creator of the portal must specify whether this spell affects the origin of a portal or the terminus of a portal during the creation of the device. Such portals drift continuously and randomly within the radius specified by the portal builder (anything from 10 to 1,000 feet from the focal point) at a rate of 10 feet per round. To determine the random motion of a drifting portal, roll 1d6 three times per minute to determine a portal’s movement; 1–2 means up, left, or forward; 3–4 means no change, no change, or no change; 5–6 means down, right, or backward).
A portal’s creator can direct its path through active concentration, which requires a standard action. Once the creator ceases concentration, the portal resumes its random drift until concentration is resumed. A portal with the drifting property costs 50% more than it otherwise would.

I'd be curious to see what UnseenMage makes with this ....

[unseenmage]

I'd be curious to see what UnseenMage makes with this ....

So far all I've got is making it an Intelligent Magic Item, Wish -> transporting it to an enemy, then moving it to an advantageous position or even swallowing the enemy with it.

Trouble is, b the level such an unorthodox use of a portal is possible it's easier to just Greater Plane Shift.

EDIT Another idea, us the item combining rules in MIC to combine the portal with a Figurine of Wondrous Power. Boom. Mobile portal.

[Particle_Man]

Oh I got another spell: Wall of Eyes. A weird wall that lasts until destroyed and can absorb people and thus add to its eye collection. And you can see through it even if on another plane. An evil conjugation spell I had thought of taking with a Malconvoker just because they can cast it without affecting their alignment.

[noce]

Oh I got another spell: Wall of Eyes. A weird wall that lasts until destroyed and can absorb people and thus add to its eye collection. And you can see through it even if on another plane. An evil conjugation spell I had thought of taking with a Malconvoker just because they can cast it without affecting their alignment.

Well, you have to fail 10 will saves in a row in order to die. And you could just pew pew it with a bow.
Still, a fun spell for the BBEG.

[Bphill561]

Oh I got another spell: Wall of Eyes. A weird wall that lasts until destroyed and can absorb people and thus add to its eye collection. And you can see through it even if on another plane. An evil conjugation spell I had thought of taking with a Malconvoker just because they can cast it without affecting their alignment.

Also fun to drop in your genesis plane if want to look in from time to time while traveling. Even states you can see across planes with it.


If you are using level buy-off and savage progressions (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), this seems feasible as a late-blooming ability. At level 3 buy off Goliath and then take a level of half-dragon, buying it off at level 6, take a level of half-dragon buying it off at level 9, and then take the last level of half-dragon buying it off at level 12. Since experience is a river, you'll only be a level-or-so behind throughout the progression and you end up with rage wings as a mid-level character.

Not sure if this is obscure, but I am always a fan of advancing savage progressions with Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion. It might take you an extra level, but you can end up with only 1 LA.

[daremetoidareyo]

just found this doozy: free draconic feat! Dragon magic p.143

[Thurbane]

just found this doozy: free draconic feat! Dragon magic p.143

Wow, that's some pretty neat affiliation benefits!

Also, in addition to a bonus feat, an extra arcane spell or invocation known (of your highest level)! :smallcool:

[Jowgen]

The text reads weird with that semi-colon, do you gain a draconic feat OR dragontouched; or do you gain a draconic feat, PLUS dragontouched if you didn't have dragonblood before?

[DrMotives]

The text reads weird with that semi-colon, do you gain a draconic feat OR dragontouched; or do you gain a draconic feat, PLUS dragontouched if you didn't have dragonblood before?

If you do not qualify for a draconic feat, then you gain dragontouched, and only dragontouched.

[Jowgen]

If you do not qualify for a draconic feat, then you gain dragontouched, and only dragontouched.

Well that's probably the intent, as I checked the draconic feats and by the look of it the only thing you can qualify for is Draconic Heritage. All the others have that as a prereque

[Thurbane]

Just discovered a "new item" that I was unaware of, mentioned in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24059348&postcount=10): Energy Drain armor or shield property (DotF p.23). At will touch-range Enervation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm), CL 7. A pretty sweet deal at +2 equivalent!

Was this ability ever updated or errata'd in any 3.5 sources?

[Saintheart]

While looking for critfishing options on WOTC, I found these: Cyran Gliding Boots. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a)

Yes, they are a pair of rollerskates.

3 times per day they let you take a 10 foot step instead of a 5 foot step. No, I don't care that at 14,000 gp they're the most expensive set of blades ever to grace an Eberron Skate Park. They give you a +2 to Tumble and Jump checks on solid grounds for better 360s, your argument is invalid.

[n00b17]

Illumian from Races of Destiny. One of the abilities you can get is using either Strength or Dex to determine bonus spells. This would probably work best for a CoDzilla build, but personally I've always wanted to do a Muscle Wizard with minimal Int investment and get all my spells from Magical Flex Powers.

[Jowgen]

Just discovered a "new item" that I was unaware of, mentioned in another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24059348&postcount=10): Energy Drain armor or shield property (DotF p.23). At will touch-range Enervation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm), CL 7. A pretty sweet deal at +2 equivalent!

Was this ability ever updated or errata'd in any 3.5 sources?

Also appears in Ghostwalk, unchanged. The Ghostwalk 3.5 update technically changes it to 1/day at a 10k gp flat pricetag, but that errata is pretty infamous for being totally out of whack in its pricing of stuff. The Glove of the Master Strategist being kept at 3600 gp despite glove of storing going up to 10k in 3.5 is the most famous one.

Other than Energy Drain it also gives a whole bunch of other equivalent abilities the flat costs treatment that makes no sense, e.g. Death Ward from a +2 to 10000 gp, Negative Energy Protection from a +2 to 6000 gp. Death Ward obvs got fixed to a +1 in MIC, and considering how flat cost enhancements are a purposeful rarity I'm pretty sure the same applies to most of the others that re-appear.

[Troacctid]

Glove of storing is way overpriced at 10k though. I'm totally on board with dropping the price by 64%. Frankly, I'm even skeptical that the glove of the master strategist is worth it at 3600.

[Thurbane]

Also appears in Ghostwalk, unchanged. The Ghostwalk 3.5 update technically changes it to 1/day at a 10k gp flat pricetag, but that errata is pretty infamous for being totally out of whack in its pricing of stuff.

Well, technically it did get hit with the nerf stick then. Bummer. :smallfrown:

[ayvango]

Glove of storing is way overpriced at 10k though. I'm totally on board with dropping the price by 64%. Frankly, I'm even skeptical that the glove of the master strategist is worth it at 3600.
It is worth 3600 in case it impose true stasis on hidden item. Such stasis where the time is frozen. That would make the glove interesting tactical choice. Stack bunch of enhancement buffs not afraid at 1 round / lvl duration on a weapon and stop the time. So you could fetch the weapon strike with it for couple of rounds and hide it back to preserve duration.

[Troacctid]

It is worth 3600 in case it impose true stasis on hidden item. Such stasis where the time is frozen. That would make the glove interesting tactical choice. Stack bunch of enhancement buffs not afraid at 1 round / lvl duration on a weapon and stop the time. So you could fetch the weapon strike with it for couple of rounds and hide it back to preserve duration.
Spell durations explicitly are not frozen and expire as normal.

[ayvango]

Spell durations explicitly are not frozen and expire as normal.
That is why I wrote "in case it was true stasis". If the item work like it described a not like it actually ruled it would be a great item.

[schreier]

Spell durations explicitly are not frozen and expire as normal.

I definitely agree that this makes sense - and have played it as such (not freezing duration). For clarity though, where is it explicitly stated?

[ayvango]

I definitely agree that this makes sense - and have played it as such (not freezing duration). For clarity though, where is it explicitly stated?
In the item description. As specific amendment to general stasis property. The item is in stasis, the time is frozen, but magic still expire. The item would be more consistent without the amendment.

[Zaq]

Has Mounted Fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) been mentioned yet? You can do some goofy stuff with that when you realize that it grants all the effects of your rage. Including stuff like Intimidating Rage and, arguably, bear warrior. (Those two were the basis of my first Iron Chef build to take a medal.)

[Thurbane]

Has Mounted Fury (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) been mentioned yet? You can do some goofy stuff with that when you realize that it grants all the effects of your rage. Including stuff like Intimidating Rage and, arguably, bear warrior. (Those two were the basis of my first Iron Chef build to take a medal.)

That's quite interesting. I wonder if you could work it into a Silverwood Arcanist/Rage Mage build?

In any case, good find - I had missed that one.

[daremetoidareyo]

That's quite interesting. I wonder if you could work it into a Silverwood Arcanist/Rage Mage build?

In any case, good find - I had missed that one.

Does white dragon lineage work with this?

[Zaq]

Does white dragon lineage work with this?

I don’t know that one offhand. Source or relevant rules text?

[daremetoidareyo]

I don’t know that one offhand. Source or relevant rules text?

Your veins run with the savage blood of white dragons, allowing you to whip yourself into a ragelike state.
Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage (white), sorcerer level 3rd.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can spend an arcane spell slot to enter a rage similar to that of a barbarian's rage. You gain temporary hit points and resistance to cold equal to 5 x the spell's level. Unlike rage, this state doesn't restrict you from casting spells or performing any other actions, though you can't activate the ability again while it is already active. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma bonus.

[Saintheart]

Your veins run with the savage blood of white dragons, allowing you to whip yourself into a ragelike state.
Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage (white), sorcerer level 3rd.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can spend an arcane spell slot to enter a rage similar to that of a barbarian's rage. You gain temporary hit points and resistance to cold equal to 5 x the spell's level. Unlike rage, this state doesn't restrict you from casting spells or performing any other actions, though you can't activate the ability again while it is already active. The effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Charisma bonus.

Mounted Fury has a prerequisite of a rage class ability. This is a rage similar to, not identical with, the barbarian rage class ability, so by itself I'd say not. On the other hand, if you go by Mounted Fury's benefit rather than its prereqs, it speaks only of "when you rage", which arguably would qualify, i.e. if you had Barbarian 1 somewhere in the build or similar I think you could use Mounted Fury on either the barbarian rage or the White Dragon Lineage rage.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'd combo Mounted Fury with Wolverine's Rage (probably not a surprise to anyone that's seen some of my builds). Anthropomorphic Wolverines/Badgers, Were-Wolverines/Badgers, and Shifters that take the prestige class Weretouched Master (wolverine) all get access to what is essentially automatic Barbarian Rage upon taking damage. Weretouched Masters are limited to doing it while shifting (unless they're also Werebadgers), but it's a class feature so they don't have to dip Barbarian to qualify for the feat. They can also use those lovely bonus shifter feats to take Shifter Savagery (https://dndtools.net/feats/races-of-eberron--10/shifter-savagery--2609/), sharing that with their mount, too!

[Macabaret]

Race
Arkamoi (MMV p.184) -- The LA hurts, but they do make for a fun mailman build.

Item
Cloud Cloak (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050311a) -- Offers a great way to sneak attack.

Belt of the Dread Emperor (BoVD p.114) -- Pricey at 120,000gp, but spell slots are spells slots. A nice gift for an evil Duskblade with Arcane Preparation.

PrC
Ashworm Dragoon (Sandstorm p.66) -- I love the 4th level ability. Combine it with ways to make your enemy attack your mount instead of you, and it's gold.

Feat
Echoing Spell (SoX p.134) -- What's better than being able to cast a spell? Casting it and not forgetting it, of course!

Quick Reconnoiter (CAdv p.112) -- This feat just needs more love. I will state, here and now, that this feat should be as important to someone focusing on Spot and Listen as Darkstalker is to someone focusing on Hide and Move Silently.

Spell
Aberrate (BoVD p.84) -- Combine with Aberration Bane Magic feat and make all of your enemies susceptible. A combo used in my A Bump In The Night (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18254051&postcount=50) entry for Junkyard Wars VII.

Misc
Necrosis Carnex (MMIV p.104) -- Creatable with an Animate Dead spell, animal intelligence, necrotic touch that heals undead, and a debuff aura (that is, incidentally, untyped). No necromaster should be without these.

Magical Storage Companion Spirit (DMGII p.196) -- Cast a spell and grant all of your friends access to using it, including you getting your spell back! If you think that wands are useful, this is for you.

[WhamBamSam]

I'd combo Mounted Fury with Wolverine's Rage (probably not a surprise to anyone that's seen some of my builds). Anthropomorphic Wolverines/Badgers, Were-Wolverines/Badgers, and Shifters that take the prestige class Weretouched Master (wolverine) all get access to what is essentially automatic Barbarian Rage upon taking damage. Weretouched Masters are limited to doing it while shifting (unless they're also Werebadgers), but it's a class feature so they don't have to dip Barbarian to qualify for the feat. They can also use those lovely bonus shifter feats to take Shifter Savagery (https://dndtools.net/feats/races-of-eberron--10/shifter-savagery--2609/), sharing that with their mount, too!As of the Dragon 318 update, Badger Hengeyokai are LA+0, and also get Rage via their Alternate Form as it's an (Ex) special attack.

EDIT: Also, if you believe that Dragonwrought Kobolds can take Sovereign Archetypes, then Passion's Flame gets rage.

[Saintheart]

PrC
Ashworm Dragoon (Sandstorm p.66) -- I love the 4th level ability. Combine it with ways to make your enemy attack your mount instead of you, and it's gold.


Besides, who doesn't love playing a Fremen?

[Malphegor]

Ruathar are fun. Very Aragorny maybe. Basically, you befriend an elf or a elven nation or something, and they reveal the secret of their longevity, which increases your lifespan by a lot and increases the size of the categories for your aging, meaning you can actualy go back an age category in some instances.

Where they get weird for me is that in the strange chain of incidences where a dragonwrought kobold were to be a ruathar, they have an already long dragonwrought lifespan gets extended longer by elf moisturiser tips or whatever. So now you’re easily looking at the ‘silly amount of centuries’ mark even with no charisma to speak of to boost it further.

Playing with lifespans is weird though. It will never come
up in most games without huge timeskips, and if you want to live for a long time, there’s no reason not to become a lich or be eternally PAO’d into younger versions of your species.



On the topic of long lived things that have magic, bloodline rules get weird hard and are obscure enough being a variant rule. So, you take a bloodline which is pseudoclass that adds stuff as you level, representing your ancestry’s manifestation as you grow. But you also took a race that reflected that ancestry. And took a feat.
And that is how I wrote down once that I would play a Silver Dragon Bloodline Silverbrow Human (descended from silver dragons) with Draconic Heritage (to later take silver dragon heritage), and then if we have feat space somehow Draconic Bloodline from dragon compendium.

So then you have a silver dragon descended being who is descended from a silver dragon and descended from a silver dragon and descended from a silver dragon and descended from a silver dragon.

I’m not sure what anyone can do with stacking multiple
methods of being descended from something, but there’s something highly entertaining about a character sheet that reads like a family tree.

[Deadkitten]

Oh, absolutely. I'd never heard of the codex anathema, for example, despite having many parts of lords of madness basically memorized. on that subject, lords of madness's slavery rules. there's cause to cite them with surprising frequency.

cold iron warrior's already been mentioned, and as questionable as the qc was on the online articles, the fey features as a whole were pretty cool.

occasionally I wake up in a cold sweat and fear that ballisteer (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030426b) will be the new ingredient for iron chef, but every time, I've been wrong.


Thanks for reminding me of Ballisteer.
Funny thing i noticed is that both of the psionic sidestep feats seem to stack with each other on their movement which might actually make them sorta useful.

[Zaq]

I’ve never brought a character with Word Given Form (martial art style in Tome of Magic) to the table because the prereqs really are just that bad, but I kind of want to.

[pabelfly]

I’ve never brought a character with Word Given Form (martial art style in Tome of Magic) to the table because the prereqs really are just that bad, but I kind of want to.

I'd be interested in reading up on that. Is it the Disciple of the Word PrC on P216, or is it another PrC that I'm missing?

Edit: reading through Disciple of the Word, although it's a pretty bad class, its 5th and 9th level abilities are actually really, really (really) good.

Word of Reflexes Exalted lets you use a Truespeak check to cover a reflex save.

Word of Mystic Deflection: When you're targeted by a spell that needs to overcome spell resistance, you can spend one use of Stunning Fist and attempt a truespeak check that the opposing caster has to overcome for their spell to work.

[Vizzerdrix]

Races of Faerun. Animal friend feat. I want to make a DFI bard that buffs his squirrel minions using it. If only I could find squirrel stats. Ravens and weasels are good options too I guess.

[Thurbane]

I'd be interested in reading up on that. Is it the Disciple of the Word PrC on P216, or is it another PrC that I'm missing?

Edit: reading through Disciple of the Word, although it's a pretty bad class, its 5th and 9th level abilities are actually really, really (really) good.

Word of Reflexes Exalted lets you use a Truespeak check to cover a reflex save.

Word of Mystic Deflection: When you're targeted by a spell that needs to overcome spell resistance, you can spend one use of Stunning Fist and attempt a truespeak check that the opposing caster has to overcome for their spell to work.

I think it refers to the Word Given Form feat (ToM p.218): gives you 50% miss chance vs. creature that is the target of your Dodge feat. Pretty hefty feat tax...

I'm sure there's a few ways to have your Dodge feat apply to more than one opponent?


Races of Faerun. Animal friend feat. I want to make a DFI bard that buffs his squirrel minions using it. If only I could find squirrel stats. Ravens and weasels are good options too I guess.

That's an interesting feat: a bit of an hangover from how animal companions worked in 3.0; and was never updated AFAIK.

No squirrel stats I know of, although there are some squirrel-like beasties in 3E: Skiurid, Ratatosk and Hobyah. None of the animal type, through.

[Vizzerdrix]

No squirrel stats I know of, although there are some squirrel-like beasties in 3E: Skiurid, Ratatosk and Hobyah. None of the animal type, through.

I am very familiar with skiurids. One of my favorite monsters (right up there with rust monsters). I'm still looking for some way to get one as a familiar. :smallsigh:

[Thurbane]

I am very familiar with skiurids. One of my favorite monsters (right up there with rust monsters). I'm still looking for some way to get one as a familiar. :smallsigh:

Well, DMs do have some leeway with Improved familiars. I'd probably allow a Skiurid at my table.


The list in the table above presents only a few possible improved familiars. Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar.

[WhamBamSam]

I think it refers to the Word Given Form feat (ToM p.218): gives you 50% miss chance vs. creature that is the target of your Dodge feat. Pretty hefty feat tax...

I'm sure there's a few ways to have your Dodge feat apply to more than one opponent?Word Given Form is not itself a feat, but a martial art that you can just learn as a result of meeting the prereqs, which eases the tax ever so slightly.

You can have both Dodge and Azure Dodge for multiple dodge targets. Depending on the how you parse the language in Sword & Fist about class features that replicate feats, you may be able to get a third dodge target from Swashbuckler 5.

If you really want to go for a permissive reading, Word Given Form just says "when using your Dodge feat against an opponent," rather than designate them as the target of your Dodge feat or whatever, so you might be able to get away with using Desert Wind Dodge or Expeditious Dodge to get a bonus and hence concealment against everyone.

Elusive Target also makes use of multiple dodge targets and synergizes well with Word Given Form.

[animewatcha]

I'd be interested in reading up on that. Is it the Disciple of the Word PrC on P216, or is it another PrC that I'm missing?

Edit: reading through Disciple of the Word, although it's a pretty bad class, its 5th and 9th level abilities are actually really, really (really) good.

Word of Reflexes Exalted lets you use a Truespeak check to cover a reflex save.

Word of Mystic Deflection: When you're targeted by a spell that needs to overcome spell resistance, you can spend one use of Stunning Fist and attempt a truespeak check that the opposing caster has to overcome for their spell to work.

Would Word of the Fist Unraveling be a little bit odd though? Position the person right and you make a truespeak check versus Anti-magic wall.

[pabelfly]

Would Word of the Fist Unraveling be a little bit odd though? Position the person right and you make a truespeak check versus Anti-magic wall.

Yeah, the Truenaming section is rather poorly-written, Zaq has plenty of examples in his Truenaming handbook. This has a similar equivalent with the truenamer version of Dispell, exploit and your reaction included.

The more I think about it the more interested I am playing with this ****ty thing and seeing what I can do with it.

[Zaq]

I do have a Word Given Form build in my (WIP, unreleased) overhaul to my guide, but it veers pretty far into “can vs. should” territory.

To this day, though, every single time I do a deep read through the Truename Magic section of ToM, I discover something new and stupid. Yes, still.

[Thurbane]

Word Given Form is not itself a feat, but a martial art that you can just learn as a result of meeting the prereqs, which eases the tax ever so slightly.

Ah, OK: I see that now. I had misread it as a feat itself.

If you took it as a class other than Truenamer (say, Factotum), and you have the ranks in Truespeak: is there anything other classes can do with those ranks?

[pabelfly]

Ah, OK: I see that now. I had misread it as a feat itself.

If you took it as a class other than Truenamer (say, Factotum), and you have the ranks in Truespeak: is there anything other classes can do with those ranks?

There's a list of spells on p253 of Tome of Magic for various casters - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Sorc/Wizard.

You can also take feats to get Utterances.

There are also several PrCs that you can get entry to with ranks of Truenaming.

[Aniikinis]

Whoa, completely passed this over by accident.

PRC
Alchemist (Jade and Steel) - It's not the best, but it's flavour is really good and it has the ability to make spells of any level into potions, which can just get extremely stupid.

Feat
Tomb-Tainted Soul(LM) - Not technically that obscure, but I almost never hear about the feats that have it as a prerequisite(T-B Fortitude, T-B Resilience, T-B Vitality). Yeah, I know they're kinda bad, but they're all super flavourful and I love making necromancers with them.

Disguise Spell[Metamagic] (Song) - Absolutely fabulous when combined with perform(oratory), that is all.

Spells
Quite a few, but to save some space I'll only list a few.

Spider Hand(BoVD) - I like spiders, so sue me, but this is frankly amazing imo. Sure you lose your non-dominant hand (unless you're an idiot and choose the wrong one) for the duration but you also gain a minion, a scouter, and something you can milk for poison, all from one spell.

Avascular Mass (SCp) - It's a good BFC spell that essentially acts as a cross between Avasculate, Entangle, and Web.

Choking Sands(Sand) - Instantly fill the target's lungs with sand and force them to begin suffocation. Technically doesn't work on creatures that don't need to breath and it pains me that this doesn't combo with the following spell.

Black Sand (Sand) - The best friend of any undead mage able to cast it and kill something small to fill your shoes with as it doesn't say the black sand created after casting goes away.

Item
Mask of Lies(CAd) - Basically the changeling race in an item with a bonus effect of undetectable alignment.

Races
Slyth(Udark)- As I laid out here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24066229&postcount=82).

Faun - From Deities and Demigods, this race is fey type, has

1 HD and no LA
Low-light vision
musical ability trait allowing the player to use the satyr's pipes the same as a satyr at a DC of 25 among other things
music resistance giving a +2 bonus to saving throws made to resist various musical effects including sonic spells, irresistible dance, bardic music, and others
a +2 racial bonus to hide, move silently, and Survival
a +4 racial bonus on perform(flutes or pipes)


The main problem, however, is their bad stat modifiers of +2 Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha to sort of balance out the bonuses above, though it is basically the over-correction that we've come to expect from wizards.

[Vizzerdrix]

Spider Hand(BoVD) - I like spiders, so sue me, but this is frankly amazing imo. Sure you lose your non-dominant hand (unless you're an idiot and choose the wrong one) for the duration but you also gain a minion, a scouter, and something you can milk for poison, all from one spell.

As an arachnaphobe, I refluff it to squirrel hand.

[DrMotives]

As an arachnaphobe, I refluff it to squirrel hand.

Often used by the drow, an evil race of elves obsessed with prairie dogs.