I don't want to be a melee anymore... It's too stressful...

[samcifer]

So for the second time in 3 sessions, my lv. 9 bear totem barbarian/battle master fighter has gone down and has been making death saves. Taking so much damage has been so stressful and even with gwm + polearm master + a weapon that does radiant damage, I still don't seem to be doing well enough to survive, even with resistance to damage. During this session, we were going up against some vampires who could do 2 claw attacks and a bite, the bite having insanely high accuracy (usually over 20 to hit and my ac is 20) and can reduce your total max hp. After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle were I was dropped (I was originally at 91 hp, but the bites from the first battle had me down to 61 hp max), and during the second battle, I was surrounded, left to fend for myself against 3 foes including the boss and kept getting bitten until I was forced to use my half-orc ability to avoid dropping only to go down from their next hit immediately afterwards and start making death saves. I had wanted to use disengage to retreat some, then I could action surge and attack from range, but I was told that I could only disengage from a single foe, taking aos from the others for moving away, which I'm not sure is correct or not.

In this homebrew campaign, the dm has pumped up the accuracy, hp and damage of monsters, so every battle is very dangerous for us. Because of this and the fact that death is much more likely even for my barbarian character, I'm finding that playing a melee character is very stressful for me. I think I'd rather play an evocation wizard as we just hit lv. 10, or at least a light monk so I can attack from range and not worry so much about being swarmed.

Should I tough it out and cope with the stress of a character I'm not enjoying, or ask the dm if I could retire my character and go with a ranged one who will feel less stressful to play? Do note that there's now a second barbarian (full barbarian with no multiclassing) in the party, so that role would still be covered.

[Crucius]

Stress is your body telling you things should change. Objectively you are doing a good job as the party tank it seems, but if you feel panic in every fight that is unacceptable and you are right to seek change.

The main thing would be party balance: you indicate there is another barbarian that could take those hits, but nonetheless there will be some more damage trickling through to the backline, where you are looking to be soon. If you think this will work out fine then go for it.

I think most importantly, you could talk to your dm about the lethality of the game. Ask what his/her vision is for the game, ask what your fellow players think of it and maybe discuss a middle ground of less lethality (regardless if you change character or not).

[TheUser]

Ask to re-roll a moon druid.

All the fun of a melee character with virtually zero stress.

Miss having Rage? No problem. Grab stoneskin and use it before wildshaping. Or just use polymorph if you want to conserve slots and wild shapes.
Alternatively you could start with a level in Barbarian and rage while wild-shaped :D

Being a level 9 moon druid however, means you have Giant Snapping Turtle, Ankylosaurus and Giant Scorpion forms and if you can't be bothered with the minutia of learning spells just bust slots into self healing in wild-shape with bonus actions.

And if you run out of HP you don't drop; you just revert to your old self.

[samcifer]

Ask to re-roll a moon druid.

All the fun of a melee character with virtually zero stress.

Miss having Rage? No problem. Grab stoneskin and use it before wildshaping. Or just use polymorph if you want to conserve slots and wild shapes.
Alternatively you could start with a level in Barbarian and rage while wild-shaped :D

Being a level 9 moon druid however, means you have Giant Snapping Turtle, Ankylosaurus and Giant Scorpion forms and if you can't be bothered with the minutia of learning spells just bust slots into self healing in wild-shape with bonus actions.

And if you run out of HP you don't drop; you just revert to your old self.

I played a moon druid before and wasn't impressed with the spell list, but now that I've played a true melee character (before I played 2 hexblade/sorcs, a wizard, a light cleric/moon druid, a sorcadin and now a barb/fighter) I have a better appreciation for the class. I think you're right on being a barb/moon druid as it'd give me more stability and especially survivability.

Yeah, I think a half-orc Barb 1 / Moon druid 9 with maxed out wisdom and the Mobile feat would make me feel safer as far as survivability goes.

[Cicciograna]

During this session, we were going up against some vampires who could do 2 claw attacks and a bite, the bite having insanely high accuracy (usually over 20 to hit and my ac is 20) and can reduce your total max hp.

Also, this should be a red flag. A critter that has a +20 to hit on an attack that can drain hit points on top of other two melee attacks sounds like a badly balanced homebrew, and not one that level 9 characters can easily handle.

[saucerhead]

It sounds like you are tanking well, but are you reckless attacking against three vampires? I am wondering about the make up of the rest of the group too? Is there anyone that can throw a Protection from Evil on you? Boss fights always tend to be stressful and going into one with reduced hit points would just increase that. Was there danger of a TPW when you went down? How did the party react?

[samcifer]

Also, this should be a red flag. A critter that has a +20 to hit on an attack that can drain hit points on top of other two melee attacks sounds like a badly balanced homebrew, and not one that level 9 characters can easily handle.

I think the dm is over-compensating for our last campaign that was run by a different member of our group. We were playing an evil homebrew campaign where we all started at lv. 8 and were massively over-powered. The dm was putting us into deadly encounters that we were still breezing through with frightening ease, so I think that's why this dm has been massively overpowering the monsters. (if anyone is curious, this campaign is based off of the Dresden Files book series).

[samcifer]

In a related note, would the Tough feet that grants +2 HP per level be applicable to a moon druid while in beast forms?

[stoutstien]

So for the second time in 3 sessions, my lv. 9 bear totem barbarian/battle master fighter has gone down and has been making death saves. Taking so much damage has been so stressful and even with gwm + polearm master + a weapon that does radiant damage, I still don't seem to be doing well enough to survive, even with resistance to damage. During this session, we were going up against some vampires who could do 2 claw attacks and a bite, the bite having insanely high accuracy (usually over 20 to hit and my ac is 20) and can reduce your total max hp. After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle were I was dropped (I was originally at 91 hp, but the bites from the first battle had me down to 61 hp max), and during the second battle, I was surrounded, left to fend for myself against 3 foes including the boss and kept getting bitten until I was forced to use my half-orc ability to avoid dropping only to go down from their next hit immediately afterwards and start making death saves. I had wanted to use disengage to retreat some, then I could action surge and attack from range, but I was told that I could only disengage from a single foe, taking aos from the others for moving away, which I'm not sure is correct or not.

In this homebrew campaign, the dm has pumped up the accuracy, hp and damage of monsters, so every battle is very dangerous for us. Because of this and the fact that death is much more likely even for my barbarian character, I'm finding that playing a melee character is very stressful for me. I think I'd rather play an evocation wizard as we just hit lv. 10, or at least a light monk so I can attack from range and not worry so much about being swarmed.

Should I tough it out and cope with the stress of a character I'm not enjoying, or ask the dm if I could retire my character and go with a ranged one who will feel less stressful to play? Do note that there's now a second barbarian (full barbarian with no multiclassing) in the party, so that role would still be covered.


your DM is screwing with some of the core mechanics of the game and it's going to have adverse side effects unless he knows what he's doing and it sounds like he doesn't. based on their misunderstanding of disengage I don't think they have a good grasp of the basic rules let alone any side effects of tweaking the game.
I don't think any changes you make your character is going to avoid the issue that you're having.

[samcifer]

It sounds like you are tanking well, but are you reckless attacking against three vampires? I am wondering about the make up of the rest of the group too? Is there anyone that can throw a Protection from Evil on you? Boss fights always tend to be stressful and going into one with reduced hit points would just increase that. Was there danger of a TPW when you went down? How did the party react?

No, I didn't dare RA against foes while surrounded. I was still getting hit very often in spite of not granting advantage most of the time.

[Amechra]

So for the second time in 3 sessions, my lv. 9 bear totem barbarian/battle master fighter has gone down and has been making death saves. Taking so much damage has been so stressful and even with gwm + polearm master + a weapon that does radiant damage, I still don't seem to be doing well enough to survive, even with resistance to damage. During this session, we were going up against some vampires who could do 2 claw attacks and a bite, the bite having insanely high accuracy (usually over 20 to hit and my ac is 20) and can reduce your total max hp. After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle were I was dropped (I was originally at 91 hp, but the bites from the first battle had me down to 61 hp max), and during the second battle, I was surrounded, left to fend for myself against 3 foes including the boss and kept getting bitten until I was forced to use my half-orc ability to avoid dropping only to go down from their next hit immediately afterwards and start making death saves. I had wanted to use disengage to retreat some, then I could action surge and attack from range, but I was told that I could only disengage from a single foe, taking aos from the others for moving away, which I'm not sure is correct or not.

In this homebrew campaign, the dm has pumped up the accuracy, hp and damage of monsters, so every battle is very dangerous for us. Because of this and the fact that death is much more likely even for my barbarian character, I'm finding that playing a melee character is very stressful for me. I think I'd rather play an evocation wizard as we just hit lv. 10, or at least a light monk so I can attack from range and not worry so much about being swarmed.

Should I tough it out and cope with the stress of a character I'm not enjoying, or ask the dm if I could retire my character and go with a ranged one who will feel less stressful to play? Do note that there's now a second barbarian (full barbarian with no multiclassing) in the party, so that role would still be covered.

There. There is your problem.

I'd talk to the DM about this, and about how you're feeling - it sounds like their houseruled number bumps¹ punish melee characters more than anyone else (honestly, there really isn't anything else you can be doing here - it's not like you have low AC or low HP). Oh, and Disengage makes you straight-up immune to opportunity attacks for the rest of the turn (PHB p. 192), so your DM kinda screwed you there. If they houseruled that and didn't tell you beforehand, that's unfair to you (and anyone planning on playing a Monk or Rogue, who depend on bonus-action Disengages.)

Out of curiosity, what is everyone else playing? Also, why didn't you ask for a short rest? You would've been able to recover some health, at the very least.

¹Which I would argue is a bad idea full stop - you should challenge your players through encounter design, not numberslam. But I digress.

[TheUser]

In a related note, would the Tough feet that grants +2 HP per level be applicable to a moon druid while in beast forms?

RAW yes.
RAI the answer is often no (Jeremy Crawford tweets and all that)

I think it's a great feature to let a moon druid use tbh.

[Inmate XIII]

In addition to what Cicciograna said, I see multiple problems here, none of them having to do with you being a melee character.


After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle

This is a problem. You know what WoW raiding guilds call a group where everyone but the tank is ready for the next fight? "Not Ready"

If your damage sink says he's not up for the next fight, you shouldn't be fighting.


and during the second battle, I was surrounded, left to fend for myself against 3 foes including the boss and kept getting bitten

Okay two things here:

1.) **** the rest of your party for leaving you to rot. Seriously, **** them with a rusty mace.

2.) Unless this is a harcore campaign, the DM should've backed off on the biting here. At level 9, this kind of **** is way too much.


I had wanted to use disengage to retreat some, then I could action surge and attack from range, but I was told that I could only disengage from a single foe, taking aos from the others for moving away, which I'm not sure is correct or not.

That's wrong. RAW states that when you disengage, you don't provoke opportunity attacks "for the rest of the turn".

All of your problems can basically be summed up as having an overly merciless DM and a crappy group.

[Sparky McDibben]

Do you guys have a life cleric or shepherd druid? It might be worth seeing if you guys can recruit an NPC healer that can give you death ward, healing, or maybe act as a potions factory.

Another option (which I would take in addition to asking for an NPC ally) is telling the DM this is not fun for you. Whenever I heard that from my players, it's a major gut punch. That's the whole reason we run games, man. Yes, 5e can be swingy, but if death is an option when you fight kobolds, that's a different style of game than you want (it sounds like). I would bring that up at the table in front of the other players, to see how many of them agree with you.

If most of the group disagrees and says they want to keep playing the hardcore game, ask the DM if you can retire your barbarian and roll up a new character. Never feel like you have to play a character you aren't have fun with. This is a game. If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong.

[Aprender]

Talk to your DM and part members away from the table. It's possible that there are battle tactics that y'all are not using that would increase your survivability. For example, are there buffs that scared squishies are putting on themself even when they are far removed from receiving damage? Are you consistently attacking recklessly when surrounded? Does the team understand that partially wounding a lot of enemies isn't as powerful as concentrating fire on a specific enemy and dropping them? Are support chars crowd controlling well?

If after talking to everyone and trying to make this character fun again, it doesn't seem possible to recover the char, then your are well within your rights to ask to retire him and make a new.

[samcifer]

There. There is your problem.

I'd talk to the DM about this, and about how you're feeling - it sounds like their houseruled number bumps¹ punish melee characters more than anyone else (honestly, there really isn't anything else you can be doing here - it's not like you have low AC or low HP). Oh, and Disengage makes you straight-up immune to opportunity attacks for the rest of the turn (PHB p. 192), so your DM kinda screwed you there. If they houseruled that and didn't tell you beforehand, that's unfair to you (and anyone planning on playing a Monk or Rogue, who depend on bonus-action Disengages.)

Out of curiosity, what is everyone else playing? Also, why didn't you ask for a short rest? You would've been able to recover some health, at the very least.

¹Which I would argue is a bad idea full stop - you should challenge your players through encounter design, not numberslam. But I digress.

As for the rest of the group, we have a hexblade (half-elf, I think), a human inquisitive ranged rogue with a lefvel of knowledge cleric, a half-orc bear totem barbarian with low ac (AC with unarmored defense, but he refuses to wear armor as he has low dex and it would be a wash on AC anyways), a warforged life cleric, a wild magic sorcerer who is a goblin who is stuck in the form of a ratling, and a temporary player from out of the country playing a tabaxi dex-focused paladin (don't now which subclass)

The dm is a bit stubborn and only I of all the players seem to take issue with how over-powered the monsters are, so I can't really complain too much. It's just that I, personally, hate how hard every combat encounter is. I mean I had a +1 radiant weapon with GWM and PM and still I was unable to take out foes very much as well as often get ganged up on, hence my desire to change to either a ranged character or one with more survivability. I'm really starting to lean more and more towards a half-orc barb/moon druid as being the most survivable melee character I can make for this campaign.

[samcifer]

Do you guys have a life cleric or shepherd druid? It might be worth seeing if you guys can recruit an NPC healer that can give you death ward, healing, or maybe act as a potions factory.

Another option (which I would take in addition to asking for an NPC ally) is telling the DM this is not fun for you. Whenever I heard that from my players, it's a major gut punch. That's the whole reason we run games, man. Yes, 5e can be swingy, but if death is an option when you fight kobolds, that's a different style of game than you want (it sounds like). I would bring that up at the table in front of the other players, to see how many of them agree with you.

If most of the group disagrees and says they want to keep playing the hardcore game, ask the DM if you can retire your barbarian and roll up a new character. Never feel like you have to play a character you aren't have fun with. This is a game. If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong.

life cleric

[samcifer]

TBH, I had originally meant my character to be more aggressive than I've been forced to play him. I had wanted more of a berserker (not the sub-class, just in personality) but due to the nature of the battles, he's been much more reserved than I'd originally planned him out to be. Also, barbs and fighters are good for battle, but nothing else, leaving me the player twiddling my thumbs outside of combat and contributing very little to social encounters. I feel that a mood druid would be able to do more outside of combat due to spells to cast and such, leaving me with less 'waiting the the next combat so my character can be useful again' down time in-game.

[Inmate XIII]

As for the rest of the group, we have a hexblade (half-elf, I think), a human inquisitive ranged rogue with a lefvel of knowledge cleric, a half-orc bear totem barbarian with low ac (AC with unarmored defense, but he refuses to wear armor as he has low dex and it would be a wash on AC anyways), a warforged life cleric, a wild magic sorcerer who is a goblin who is stuck in the form of a ratling, and a temporary player from out of the country playing a tabaxi dex-focused paladin (don't now which subclass)

The dm is a bit stubborn and only I of all the players seem to take issue with how over-powered the monsters are, so I can't really complain too much. It's just that I, personally, hate how hard every combat encounter is. I mean I had a +1 radiant weapon with GWM and PM and still I was unable to take out foes very much as well as often get ganged up on, hence my desire to change to either a ranged character or one with more survivability. I'm really starting to lean more and more towards a half-orc barb/moon druid as being the most survivable melee character I can make for this campaign.

What I'm reading is that you're the only one with any AC, so therefore the DM has the monsters gank you, and therefore the rest of the group doesn't realize how bad things are. Your survivability isn't the problem here, the table is the issue. Rerolling barb/druid won't help much in the end, and you'll likely end up right back where you started.

If you can't convince the DM to lay off or convince the other players that there's a problem, your best bet might be to reroll ranged and let someone else be tormented for a while. When they start complaining, bring up the fact that you were saying the same things, and together you might be able to bring everyone else to your shared point of view.

[Amechra]

Of course they aren't complaining - you're there to soak up all the hits.

What I'd do is go into the next session and tell everyone "hey, my guy's gotten pretty spooked about getting into melee, what with all the heavy damage he's been taking". And then just go ranged. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the party is going to start having problems with the increased to-hit rolls and damage...

But I'm vindictive and childish like that. The sensible, adult thing is to tell people that being the tank is legitimately stressing you out due to the increased numbers, and that you would like to try a different character. If that doesn't change things, I'd suggest walking - D&D should be fun, not stressful.

EDIT: Also, stuff that drops max HP is overly mean if you spam it. It takes a 5th level spell to remove one effect that reduces your max HP, and your only real option other than that is to take a Long Rest.

[Sparky McDibben]

If you can't convince the DM to lay off or convince the other players that there's a problem, your best bet might be to reroll ranged and let someone else be tormented for a while. When they start complaining, bring up the fact that you were saying the same things, and together you might be able to bring everyone else to your shared point of view.

That might be another way to play it before you bring it up to the DM. Just refuse to engage with his encounters and kite the absolute crap out of them. Stick to ranged and chuck javelins; RP it as "my character had a near-death experience, and he's going through a crisis right now." If one of the squishies gets stuck in, that gives you some built-in character conflict to role-play: "I want to save my friend, but I'm terrified of almost dying..." For a decent example of someone dealing with this, check out Mandorallen from the Belgariad.

[Inmate XIII]

Of course they aren't complaining - you're there to soak up all the hits.

What I'd do is go into the next session and tell everyone "hey, my guy's gotten pretty spooked about getting into melee, what with all the heavy damage he's been taking". And then just go ranged. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the party is going to start having problems with the increased to-hit rolls and damage...

But I'm vindictive and childish like that. The sensible, adult thing is to tell people that being the tank is legitimately stressing you out due to the increased numbers, and that you would like to try a different character. If that doesn't change things, I'd suggest walking - D&D should be fun, not stressful.

lol.

Yeah, this right here is the correct answer.

[samcifer]

What I'm reading is that you're the only one with any AC, so therefore the DM has the monsters gank you, and therefore the rest of the group doesn't realize how bad things are. Your survivability isn't the problem here, the table is the issue. Rerolling barb/druid won't help much in the end, and you'll likely end up right back where you started.

If you can't convince the DM to lay off or convince the other players that there's a problem, your best bet might be to reroll ranged and let someone else be tormented for a while. When they start complaining, bring up the fact that you were saying the same things, and together you might be able to bring everyone else to your shared point of view.

Which is why I've toyed around with the idea of being a Sun Soul monk with maybe a level of barbarian or Lycanthrope. I can attack from range with radiant damage, have high mobility and be tanky in case I still get hit. Another build would be sun soul Aarakocra with 2 levels of fighter for a way to heal a bit as well as action surge. In our group, AS grants a second bonus action, so I could attack up to 8 times in a single turn once per rest.

[Sparky McDibben]

Also, what was your party dealing with while you were tanking three vampires at once? 'Cuz if they were just focusing fire from ranged...I think we found the DM's encounter design problem.

[Sparky McDibben]

AS grants a second bonus action.

Action Surge grants a second bonus action? Is that a Crawford special, because I'm not seeing that in the rules.

[JNAProductions]

Which is why I've toyed around with the idea of being a Sun Soul monk with maybe a level of barbarian or Lycanthrope. I can attack from range with radiant damage, have high mobility and be tanky in case I still get hit. Another build would be sun soul Aarakocra with 2 levels of fighter for a way to heal a bit as well as action surge. In our group, AS grants a second bonus action, so I could attack up to 8 times in a single turn once per rest.


Action Surge grants a second bonus action? Is that a Crawford special, because I'm not seeing that in the rules.

Tis a houserule.

[samcifer]

Also, what was your party dealing with while you were tanking three vampires at once? 'Cuz if they were just focusing fire from ranged...I think we found the DM's encounter design problem.

So there were 6 vampires with 2 claw attacks and the bite attack that lowers max hp as well as a boss version of them. there were two of them at first, then 4 more attacked. The paladin was smiting and moon beaming well enough, the other barb was hitting okay, the cleric was being a healer/buffer, and the last two characters, the rogue sand the hexblade, were both getting horrible rolls all nigh on attacking, missing more often than they hit. The rogue was trying to hide in plain sight a lot, but it was a dumb plan and his rolls to hide were only high enough to succeed once. The HB was either E blasting (getting a crit 2 times, but usually missing) or swinging her sword and almost never hitting with it.

The other players were getting hit some, but I was getting bit the most often. My main issue was the effect of the bits that kept dropping my max hp by 7 to 10 pts. per bite, and that was with my resistance up.

[Aprender]

If you have a party of 7 PCs and the only char with a decent AC is constantly near death while everyone else feels warm and snuggly, the problem does not lie in your char.

Either you are taking terrible risks (doesn't sound like it), your party as a whole refuses to use basic combat tactics or your DM is targetting your char for whatever reason (justified or not).

Talk to everyone away from the table. Alternatively, I like the passive-aggressive option of not fulfilling your roll for role play reasons it *is* nice to let everyone taste a bit of what you've been forced to swallow. :)

[Sparky McDibben]

Tis a houserule.

Thanks for clarifying!!

[Nagog]

I think the dm is over-compensating for our last campaign that was run by a different member of our group. We were playing an evil homebrew campaign where we all started at lv. 8 and were massively over-powered. The dm was putting us into deadly encounters that we were still breezing through with frightening ease, so I think that's why this dm has been massively overpowering the monsters. (if anyone is curious, this campaign is based off of the Dresden Files book series).

This right here is your issue. the previous DM took it far too lightly, which is easy to do if you don't understand how CR works, and from the sounds of it, neither does the current DM. Suggest to them to use a CR calculator when creating these encounters. Most online CR Calculators tell you how deadly your campaign will be, with difficulties including Easy, Medium, Hard, and Deadly. I typically use a Hard or Deadly setting to keep things interesting (also usually have less enemies than party members to keep the Action Economy in their favor so it doesn't always feel unfair). I would recommend urging your DM to use these calculators, as from the sounds of how your DM has this campaigned planned, it won't matter in any way what class you are, the enemies are simply too powerful. If there are any enemies that don't reduce max HP, I'd look into playing a Way of Tranquility Monk, as they have a ridiculous healing pool and as a monk they can do really good damage. The issue with that route would be you'd need really good rolls in 3 different stats, however if you can pull that off, you'll be a monk with 100 hp of healing that you can use as one of your flurry of blows attacks on yourself or an ally. However as this class is UA you may need to get your DM approval, but if the DM is throwing homebrewed enemies your way they should allow for some WoTC official Homebrews.

[Sparky McDibben]

So there were 6 vampires with 2 claw attacks and the bite attack that lowers max hp as well as a boss version of them. there were two of them at first, then 4 more attacked. The paladin was smiting and moon beaming well enough, the other barb was hitting okay, the cleric was being a healer/buffer, and the last two characters, the rogue sand the hexblade, were both getting horrible rolls all nigh on attacking, missing more often than they hit. The rogue was trying to hide in plain sight a lot, but it was a dumb plan and his rolls to hide were only high enough to succeed once. The HB was either E blasting (getting a crit 2 times, but usually missing) or swinging her sword and almost never hitting with it.

The other players were getting hit some, but I was getting bit the most often. My main issue was the effect of the bits that kept dropping my max hp by 7 to 10 pts. per bite, and that was with my resistance up.

OK, so it sounds like your DM was keeping the pressure on the party. Have you talked offline to any of the other players about their feelings?

[samcifer]

Also, what was your party dealing with while you were tanking three vampires at once? 'Cuz if they were just focusing fire from ranged...I think we found the DM's encounter design problem.

The rogue uses a crossbow, the hexblade either EBs from range or slashes with a sword up close, the cleric is ranged as well as support, the sorc is... weird. He fireballed a single enemy, then ran right up to stand next to him because the player likes his character acting erratically. The rest of us are melee, only using ranged attacks when we can't get into melee range.

[samcifer]

OK, so it sounds like your DM was keeping the pressure on the party. Have you talked offline to any of the other players about their feelings?

Everyone else is taking it in stride, and I'm the only one sweating bullets over it all, so it's just my nervousness on being a melee tank, I guess.

[Keravath]

1) The ruling about disengage is wrong. If you disengage there are no op attacks from any creatures for the entire turn. You can move wherever you like subject to your movement speed.

2) You have other melee in the party, another barbarian, a paladin and possibly the hexblade depending on whether they are melee or not. Do any of these characters also get swarmed and overwhelmed in melee?

3) You have a knowledge cleric/rogue, a full life cleric and a paladin. Both the rogue and the life cleric should have healing word (60' heal, bonus action cast). Unless none of these characters have a turn between when the creatures take you down and your turn ... you shouldn't end up rolling death saves ... and if you do it should be at most one round before you are back on your feet (even if it is only for a single round). If they aren't healing you when you are incapacitated then your party has more problems with the players than the DM.

4) There are 7 characters in the party. You need pretty powerful groups of opponents to challenge a 7 person party. If those groups pile on one defender it will feel overwhelming even if the DM doesn't boost them at all. If three or four vampires that the entire party is fighting jump on your character then it isn't surprising that you feel overwhelmed. On the other hand, that is part of the job of a totem barbarian. If those creatures are attacking you then they aren't attacking the rogue or sorcerer who don't have the resources to stand up to the same level of damage. I'm not sure the DM needs to do any boosting at all to make encounters challenging ... just throw in an extra opponent or two.

5) If you are constantly worried about your character dying and this stresses you out then you should probably look into a sneaky ranged character that can stay away from the opponents, can disengage and is rarely the target of attacks. Rogue or a rogue multiclass might fit what you are looking for ... e.g. elven rogue or arcane trickster/wizard multiclass depending on your preferences.

Finally, have a chat to the DM, explain that you just aren't enjoying playing this character given the way the campaign is being run and were wondering about swapping to a non front line character .. either ranged damage or a caster.

[bid]

After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle
Run away, let them die.
That's what ROLEplay is about.


This isn't democracy where the wolves vote on eating the lamb.

[samcifer]

Well, I looked over druid and realized that I was forgetting about the elemental forms you get at lv. 10, si I think I'd go a firbolg moon druid 10 so that with a fixed array of stats at 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 10, I can start with max wisdom and use the ASIs to instead take Tough and Mobile, giving me better combat abilities and if I made Strength 13 (12 +1) I could go barbarian at lv. 11 for rage to give me resistance to damage and upping my survivability even more.

[Pex]

your DM is screwing with some of the core mechanics of the game and it's going to have adverse side effects unless he knows what he's doing and it sounds like he doesn't. based on their misunderstanding of disengage I don't think they have a good grasp of the basic rules let alone any side effects of tweaking the game.
I don't think any changes you make your character is going to avoid the issue that you're having.

I agree. I play a bear totem barbarian/battle master. Started at level 3, currently level 12. I've dropped twice in the entire campaign. The first was bad luck failing a saving throw against a banshee early in the campaign. The second was two levels ago by several rounds of damage attrition. It was the only battle that lasted a round longer than I could handle. At level 11 I was attacked by 6 velociraptors and was still up.

I think the DM is overcompensating that you take half damage from everything. It is a strong ability but not Win D&D strong. My party does not defeat the bad guys because 100 damage becomes 50 against me. We win because we work as a team. Your DM is screwing around with the math of the game. That is what is screwing you over.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Ignoring everything else because I think it's been pretty well covered, I'd just like a clarification on the Vampires.

You say they had 2 claw strikes and their bite, when really they normally have 2 strikes full stop with only 1 allowed as the the bite (there is a variant vampire in GGtR that has 3 attacks). Was the DM also making sure that you were grappled before using the bite? The target must be grappled by the vampire biting them, incapacitated or restrained and I'm sure that as a Barbarian with advantage in athletics while raging you should have had a reasonable chance of meeting the grappled escape DC.

The accuracy of the vampire isn't something I'm very surprised about though, full blooded vampires are at a +9 to hit so meeting your AC is near 50/50 for them, better if you're using Reckless Attack. Vampire spawn aren't that much worse at a +6. They really shouldn't have had the opportunity to bite you often enough to diminish your HP so much though.

I know this thread has been pretty gratuitous with piling on the DM for being more than a bit hard on the party with this but I'm finding it pretty ridiculous. Your choice of character isn't the problem, definitely strike up a conversation with the DM about this.

[Nagog]

1)
3) You have a knowledge cleric/rogue, a full life cleric and a paladin. Both the rogue and the life cleric should have healing word (60' heal, bonus action cast). Unless none of these characters have a turn between when the creatures take you down and your turn ... you shouldn't end up rolling death saves ... and if you do it should be at most one round before you are back on your feet (even if it is only for a single round). If they aren't healing you when you are incapacitated then your party has more problems with the players than the DM.


The issue probably isn't that he doesn't get the healing he needs, it's probably because the healing won't work. The attacks reduce his total HP, so healing won't fix it, only a long rest will.


Run away, let them die.
That's what ROLEplay is about.


This isn't democracy where the wolves vote on eating the lamb.

If they refuse to have a long rest when you need it, inform them that you are going to take a long rest, and you'll catch up with them later. They can either join you for that long rest, or continue. If they continue, they will very likely die, and learn that if they want to play like that, they will die very often. If they're stupid enough to walk headlong into what could very likely turn into a TPK, don't let them pressure you into doing the same.

[CorporateSlave]

If they refuse to have a long rest when you need it, inform them that you are going to take a long rest, and you'll catch up with them later. They can either join you for that long rest, or continue. If they continue, they will very likely die, and learn that if they want to play like that, they will die very often. If they're stupid enough to walk headlong into what could very likely turn into a TPK, don't let them pressure you into doing the same.

Granted this is reading between the lines a bit, but it sounds to me like while this is theoretically a great idea, this DM is enough of an idiot that he would punish this by having him ambushed and slaughtered while resting just to prove a point about teamwork or something.

...and make no mistake about it, this DM is an idiot. You can argue the merits or pitfalls of buffing/nerfing/houseruling all you want, but he has found the one way to lose at D&D, which is to spoil the fun for a player because "he knows what's best."

[Aprender]

@corporateslave Preach on, brother.

[Nagog]

Granted this is reading between the lines a bit, but it sounds to me like while this is theoretically a great idea, this DM is enough of an idiot that he would punish this by having him ambushed and slaughtered while resting just to prove a point about teamwork or something.

...and make no mistake about it, this DM is an idiot. You can argue the merits or pitfalls of buffing/nerfing/houseruling all you want, but he has found the one way to lose at D&D, which is to spoil the fun for a player because "he knows what's best."

Well, if you've attempted both going with the party and dying, and taking the rest and dying, at that point you'll have a powerful argument as to why the DM should rethink exactly how difficult he is making the campaign. I had some friends who were in a similar situation with a DM who made every decision come back to bite them, no matter what. Save the hostage, the hostage is evil and it was a trap. Leave them behind, and the hostage was innocent and you let them die. Being smart (and therefore calloused against your own conscience) made others see you as evil and less likely to help you, and being good got you stabbed in the back, beaten (frequently), and openly manipulated. There were no win scenarios. If your campaign is reaching this level of D Baggery, it's time to leave the game, perhaps permanently.

[LordEntrails]

Let me touch on what I think you should be considering. And it's not about rules, mechanics, etc...

... Taking so much damage has been so stressful and even with gwm + polearm master + a weapon that does radiant damage, I still don't seem to be doing well enough to survive, even with resistance to damage.


Everyone else is taking it in stride, and I'm the only one sweating bullets over it all, so it's just my nervousness on being a melee tank, I guess.

D&D is a GAME. It is not something you should be stressing over or "sweating bullets" over. Sure, a little bit of anxiety and stress during play that is healthy and adds to the fun is fine, but it should not be an emotionally unhealthy situation. What's the worst thing that can happen? Your character dies? So what? I don't care how invested in a character you are, but their death should be nothing but a good story and a chance to play a totally new character concept you have thought up.

Seriously, this, imo is the first and most important things you should make sure is going on. You need to be having fun, and you need to be able to have a character die without it having a lasting emotional impact.


After the first fight against them I was down a third of my max and was insisting that we take a long rest, but everyone else voted me down and we continued into a second battle ...
As others have said, adventuring is not a democracy. And just because you are the "tank" sure as heck doesn't mean you don't get to decide what your character does. And why would your character put themselves in harm's way if they don't have a reason to?

"Sure," you say to the rest of the party, "go ahead and let's keep on going, but I'm going to walk here in the back of the party behind the wizard? Oh, you want me up front? I can do that, I'm now the front of the marching order, and I'm going to lay down and take a nice long rest after I warm up some rations and drink a bit of mead. Don't wake me."

What are they going to do? Wake you up? Ok, great, "but I'm going back to sleep until I feel better, that is at least if you want me to lead the party into danger."


... left to fend for myself
Proof that if you are fending for yourself, then you need to fend for yourself and not lead the party or be the tank when you are not up for it. Simple.

Don't get, or let the other players think, that your CHARACTERS unwillingness to "be a team player" is you as the PLAYER not being cooperative.


I was forced to use my half-orc ability to avoid dropping only to go down from their next hit immediately afterwards and start making death saves.
Sounds heroic, would have made a great story had you died :)


Because of this and the fact that death is much more likely even for my barbarian character, I'm finding that playing a melee character is very stressful for me. I think I'd rather play an evocation wizard as we just hit lv. 10, or at least a light monk so I can attack from range and not worry so much about being swarmed... Should I tough it out and cope with the stress of a character I'm not enjoying,

See what I said first. And making such a change as this might be an appropriate short term solution. But in the end, imo, worry about your enjoyment and mental health. Maybe play a different character for awhile, one you plan on getting killed. It's called Exposure Response Prevention therapy and its a very effective treatment for anxiety (seriously).


Run away, let them die.
That's what ROLEplay is about.

This isn't democracy where the wolves vote on eating the lamb.
Yep, no need to lead the party into danger if your character isn't ready for it.

[RSP]

One thing to add to possible strategies here:

If you have a Cleric-dipped Rogue and a full Cleric, and you have 3 out of 6 enemies swarming you, and both characters with Cleric levels are making weapon attacks, one should be casting Sanctuary on you: best use of a 1st level slot and a bonus action is potentially wasting up to 3 enemies’ turns.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Hate to be a bit of a contrarian, but my advice is: go ahead and die.

It sounds like this is a group of people you've been gaming with for a while, and that it's been fun in the past? There are 7 of you in the party, and nobody else is complaining about this DM's game plan of ramping up the hurt to ultra-dangerous levels. There are at least 2 other front-line melee characters in the party, one of whom is another totem barb (with a lower AC).

Assuming that you like these people (and trust them? I still don't get why there were 7 of you fighting 6 vampires, and threeof them were swarming you!), have had fun with them in the past, and they presumably like you back, I'd say that walking isn't the answer. Good groups aren't that easy to find (assuming again that this IS one). Neither is complaining to the DM, really. Everyone else is having fun. You don't want to be the whiner who spoils everyone else's fun, do you? That's not a good place to be.

But you're at the point where you're sweating bullets over your role as a tank, to the point that you want to run a new character. The answer, as far as I can tell, is to 'mentally retire' this character. He's already done. A dead man walking. You're about to run that new Moon Druid, in just a game session or two. So disengage yourself from this barbarian emotionally, and accept that he's going to die very, very soon. The go into the next battle and play him the way you originally wanted to: be a berserker, recklessly attack and wade deep into the enemy, and go down swinging like a champ! Die that heroes' death, and let him ascend into Valhalla. Extra points if you can manage to get eaten/dismembered/completely incinerated. Remember, if they don't get to you and Revivify you within 1 minute, then you don't have to come back even if they use a Raise Dead (your soul must be willing, and yours isn't).

Then, without ever having to make a complaint, raise a stink, or get the DM's permission for anything, you roll out your new non-combat oriented moon druid replacement character. I wouldn't even bother with that level of barbarian just yet, since elementals all get resistance to (non-magical) weapon attacks anyway, for those times when you do get stuck in combat.

If the DM is still targeting you in the way you described above with this new character, then you'll be in a much better position to smell a rat. If the DM doesn't tone down his difficulty level after having slain the most resilient character in the party (your current PC), then your fellow players will quickly replace you in the role of primary punching-bag. You'll then be able to get a better sense of whether your current sensitivity to being in that role was more of a "just you" kind of thing, or whether it was just that they weren't feeling the hurt before because you were there to protect them.

I'm not sure that this is the most "adult" way to handle it, but at least you won't be singling yourself out or ruining other folks' fun, and it'll get you out of the current (emotionally unsustainable and un-fun) situation you're in.

[ad_hoc]

Game sounds like a trainwreck.

I would start over with DM + 4 players.

Remove the houserules.

Play a published adventure.


Try that first before going off the rails.

[samcifer]

Ignoring everything else because I think it's been pretty well covered, I'd just like a clarification on the Vampires.

You say they had 2 claw strikes and their bite, when really they normally have 2 strikes full stop with only 1 allowed as the the bite (there is a variant vampire in GGtR that has 3 attacks). Was the DM also making sure that you were grappled before using the bite? The target must be grappled by the vampire biting them, incapacitated or restrained and I'm sure that as a Barbarian with advantage in athletics while raging you should have had a reasonable chance of meeting the grappled escape DC.

The accuracy of the vampire isn't something I'm very surprised about though, full blooded vampires are at a +9 to hit so meeting your AC is near 50/50 for them, better if you're using Reckless Attack. Vampire spawn aren't that much worse at a +6. They really shouldn't have had the opportunity to bite you often enough to diminish your HP so much though.

I know this thread has been pretty gratuitous with piling on the DM for being more than a bit hard on the party with this but I'm finding it pretty ridiculous. Your choice of character isn't the problem, definitely strike up a conversation with the DM about this.

No grappling, just a straight up bite. Also, the dm was rolling an insane number of crits last night. He has one of those large dice that flash a red light whenever you roll the max number on the die and he was rolling open-table, so we knew he was rolling honestly. I was critted 3 times with bite attacks, which was why my hp was dropping so fast.

As far as teamwork, well... Yeah, we don't really do that very much. Each of us does our own thing for the most part except for the cleric who focuses on supporting all of us in battle. The rogue player always tend to play a****** characters (rhymes with jay bowl) and this character acts like he's the one in charge, only he knows what he's doing and looks down on the other members of the party, but never tries to counter anything we're doing. He would say things like how he's the most important member of the party, so why wouldn't everyone loan him the massive amounts of money to go out and purchase a super expensive item for himself. We the other pc characters shot him down, he just shrugged in acceptance and said we were all jerks for not helping him. The player did this on an offhanded joking manner and we knew he wasn't actively being a jerk play, just a jerk character. :)

[samcifer]

The issue probably isn't that he doesn't get the healing he needs, it's probably because the healing won't work. The attacks reduce his total HP, so healing won't fix it, only a long rest will.



If they refuse to have a long rest when you need it, inform them that you are going to take a long rest, and you'll catch up with them later. They can either join you for that long rest, or continue. If they continue, they will very likely die, and learn that if they want to play like that, they will die very often. If they're stupid enough to walk headlong into what could very likely turn into a TPK, don't let them pressure you into doing the same.

The max hp loss was only until after the victim's next long rest when the hp resets to normal, which happened. we leveled up to lv. 10 after that battle for our trouble.

[Nagog]

The max hp loss was only until after the victim's next long rest when the hp resets to normal, which happened. we leveled up to lv. 10 after that battle for our trouble.

Understood. I was responding to their point about the healers not healing you in battle. :)

So do you know what you're going to do on the issue?

[Contrast]

No, I didn't dare RA against foes while surrounded. I was still getting hit very often in spite of not granting advantage most of the time.

Just to say if an enemy is routinely hitting you when you don't use reckless attack, that's a reason to reckless attack, not a reason not to.

Vampires are admittedly somewhat an exception however given the potential increased risk of being critted on the bite.

More generally you seem to consider that remaking as a ranged character will make you safer. The DM will presumably be sending the same numbers of enemies your way - they'll just be whaling on characters who aren't taking half damage and don't have a high AC like your barbarian appears to. I played a game today where my barbarian took probably about as much damage as the rest of the party combined - but that was tactics working as intended. We funneled enemies into me. It does frustrate me when I see characters (rogues are a common culprit) making themselves not a target when on full health, leaving the only viable target another badly damaged character. Equally I've played in a game where the barbarian often hung back and flung javelins while my caster had been caught in melee...

Of course the more relevant point is that you're not enjoying it. If you don't enjoy being whaled on for massive amounts of damage I agree barbarian is not the class you're looking for and I'd look to explore other options.

[Amechra]

Hate to be a bit of a contrarian, but my advice is: go ahead and die.

It sounds like this is a group of people you've been gaming with for a while, and that it's been fun in the past? There are 7 of you in the party, and nobody else is complaining about this DM's game plan of ramping up the hurt to ultra-dangerous levels. There are at least 2 other front-line melee characters in the party, one of whom is another totem barb (with a lower AC).

Assuming that you like these people (and trust them? I still don't get why there were 7 of you fighting 6 vampires, and threeof them were swarming you!), have had fun with them in the past, and they presumably like you back, I'd say that walking isn't the answer. Good groups aren't that easy to find (assuming again that this IS one). Neither is complaining to the DM, really. Everyone else is having fun. You don't want to be the whiner who spoils everyone else's fun, do you? That's not a good place to be.

But you're at the point where you're sweating bullets over your role as a tank, to the point that you want to run a new character. The answer, as far as I can tell, is to 'mentally retire' this character. He's already done. A dead man walking. You're about to run that new Moon Druid, in just a game session or two. So disengage yourself from this barbarian emotionally, and accept that he's going to die very, very soon. The go into the next battle and play him the way you originally wanted to: be a berserker, recklessly attack and wade deep into the enemy, and go down swinging like a champ! Die that heroes' death, and let him ascend into Valhalla. Extra points if you can manage to get eaten/dismembered/completely incinerated. Remember, if they don't get to you and Revivify you within 1 minute, then you don't have to come back even if they use a Raise Dead (your soul must be willing, and yours isn't).

Then, without ever having to make a complaint, raise a stink, or get the DM's permission for anything, you roll out your new non-combat oriented moon druid replacement character. I wouldn't even bother with that level of barbarian just yet, since elementals all get resistance to (non-magical) weapon attacks anyway, for those times when you do get stuck in combat.

If the DM is still targeting you in the way you described above with this new character, then you'll be in a much better position to smell a rat. If the DM doesn't tone down his difficulty level after having slain the most resilient character in the party (your current PC), then your fellow players will quickly replace you in the role of primary punching-bag. You'll then be able to get a better sense of whether your current sensitivity to being in that role was more of a "just you" kind of thing, or whether it was just that they weren't feeling the hurt before because you were there to protect them.

I'm not sure that this is the most "adult" way to handle it, but at least you won't be singling yourself out or ruining other folks' fun, and it'll get you out of the current (emotionally unsustainable and un-fun) situation you're in.

For reference, this is actually pretty bad advice. Especially when referencing the underlined bit. It basically gets you to the same place as talking to the DM, except you go there by being cowardly and passive-aggressive instead of talking to your friends. Personally speaking, if a player of mine pulled something like that, I would be pretty upset, both because A) I failed to read my table and B) they just signaled that they think I'm a jerk.

Whereas just going to the DM and going "Hey man, I just want to say that I haven't been having fun in the last few sessions. I feel like I'm getting beaten up without being able to do anything to stop it. Would it be OK if I rerolled as a [X]?" will at least open lines of communication. Heck, talking it over with the whole party can also be really helpful - even if it turns out that everyone else loves the murderous difficulty, at least everyone will be on the same page.

[Nagog]

If you have to roll a new character, consider the following option: Druid 3 Warlock X.

3 levels of druid will get you enough to get your Circle, and that choice I'll leave to you, as it isn't essential to the combo I have in mind, but it's still quite useful. The main point of going Druid is for spells like Spike Growth.

The levels in Warlock will allow you to combine Eldritch Blast with the invocations Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy. By level 5, you can keep a single enemy at bay indefinitely by knocking them back 20 feet with your 2 Repelling Blasts, and then reducing their movement speed to 20 (assuming it was 30 to start with) with Lance of Lethargy. On top of that, Spike Growth makes the area difficult terrain, so they have half movement on top of that, so they take damage when attempting to approach you. If they decide it isnt worth moving and taking the 2d4 damage per 5 feet, you can also pick up Vine Whip from druid to bring them closer, then blast them back with Eldritch Blast. This could total out to 1d6+4d6 per round with Vine Whip, and 2d10+8d4 with Eldritch Blast, provided they remain in the Spike Growth. On top of all that, if you go Hexblade Warlock, you can set them up with Hexblade's Curse for an extra 1d6 on each of those and health steal on a kill. You could also gain Armor of Agathys for some extra health and damage output (although if the enemies are dealing as much damage as you're saying they are, this won't last long, but it's something), and at later levels you can gain Tomb of Levistus for a panic button to ensure you survive the round.

If you are free to coordinate with your team and use the terrain to your advantage, an area control build like this can get you a good chunk of the way towards victory, provided your DM doesn't pull some BS stuff like "Oh the enemy is immune to X" or "They teleport the full distance to you". Barring DM BS, this build should work wonders.

Also, if your DM is open to homebrew subclasses, try Circle of the Storms from GM Binder, that adds more AoE damage output that doesn't interfere with the concentration of Spike Growth to further amplify the effect. These storms also will hit flying enemies, so it's a nice touch to add to the mix

[JackPhoenix]

Also, the dm was rolling an insane number of crits last night. He has one of those large dice that flash a red light whenever you roll the max number on the die and he was rolling open-table, so we knew he was rolling honestly. I was critted 3 times with bite attacks, which was why my hp was dropping so fast.

That's not surprising. He's using weightened dice... no way is that thing properly balanced if it's got electronic components inside. It's a gimmick, not something to use if you want anything resembling proper roll distribution. Get him to use normal dice.

[ProsecutorGodot]

SNIP

No offense intended to your DM but it's sounding a lot like he's trying to "win" at the game instead of guiding you through it. I'd be pretty stressed out too, it's seeming more like a competition than a time to hang out.

I'm also 100% in agreement with JackPhoenix here, gimmick dice are cool but I don't think they're appropriate for play. Maybe ask him to borrow it for a few of your rolls and see if you start landing the same crits.

[samcifer]

If you have to roll a new character, consider the following option: Druid 3 Warlock X.

3 levels of druid will get you enough to get your Circle, and that choice I'll leave to you, as it isn't essential to the combo I have in mind, but it's still quite useful. The main point of going Druid is for spells like Spike Growth.

The levels in Warlock will allow you to combine Eldritch Blast with the invocations Repelling Blast and Lance of Lethargy. By level 5, you can keep a single enemy at bay indefinitely by knocking them back 20 feet with your 2 Repelling Blasts, and then reducing their movement speed to 20 (assuming it was 30 to start with) with Lance of Lethargy. On top of that, Spike Growth makes the area difficult terrain, so they have half movement on top of that, so they take damage when attempting to approach you. If they decide it isnt worth moving and taking the 2d4 damage per 5 feet, you can also pick up Vine Whip from druid to bring them closer, then blast them back with Eldritch Blast. This could total out to 1d6+4d6 per round with Vine Whip, and 2d10+8d4 with Eldritch Blast, provided they remain in the Spike Growth. On top of all that, if you go Hexblade Warlock, you can set them up with Hexblade's Curse for an extra 1d6 on each of those and health steal on a kill. You could also gain Armor of Agathys for some extra health and damage output (although if the enemies are dealing as much damage as you're saying they are, this won't last long, but it's something), and at later levels you can gain Tomb of Levistus for a panic button to ensure you survive the round.

If you are free to coordinate with your team and use the terrain to your advantage, an area control build like this can get you a good chunk of the way towards victory, provided your DM doesn't pull some BS stuff like "Oh the enemy is immune to X" or "They teleport the full distance to you". Barring DM BS, this build should work wonders.

Also, if your DM is open to homebrew subclasses, try Circle of the Storms from GM Binder, that adds more AoE damage output that doesn't interfere with the concentration of Spike Growth to further amplify the effect. These storms also will hit flying enemies, so it's a nice touch to add to the mix

That's the Hex spell damage. HC does proficiency bonus damage

[Tanarii]

Wait ... you can take on three overpowered home brew enemies at once and you want to switch to something less survivable?

Also, I'm surprised that you going down didn't result in a TPK. You are soaking up enough damage to kill any two to three other characters.

Sit the entire table down and flat out tell them that you're tired of carrying the entire weight for this game. That the only reason there hasn't been a TPK is your specific character, and it's been close anyway. That if the homebrew isn't rolled back to something reasonable, you're going to retire the character, and the party will wipe in the very next fight.

Now if they won't wipe in the next fight, because you're getting blown away because you're unnecessarily engaging in melee when the campaign is set up so the entire party kiting the enemy in every fight would be easy ... yeah, you need to ask to reroll a kiting character. Just say you've got the wrong character for the kiting strategies that this campaign is clearly designed to require.

Edit: I missed that you're in a 7 person party with two other strong melee plus 2 off-melee. That explains why they didn't go down. You definitely need to tell them you're tired of carrying the weight, and those other meleers need to step up and do their job and take some hits. Or if you want to be less aggressive, and more passive-aggressive, just hold back a bit and let them.

[samcifer]

Wait ... you can take on three overpowered home brew enemies at once and you want to switch to something less survivable?

Also, I'm surprised that you going down didn't result in a TPK. You are soaking up enough damage to kill any two to three other characters.

Sit the entire table down and flat out tell them that you're tired of carrying the entire weight for this game. That the only reason there hasn't been a TPK is your specific character, and it's been close anyway. That if the homebrew isn't rolled back to something reasonable, you're going to retire the character, and the party will wipe in the very next fight.

Now if they won't wipe in the next fight, because you're getting blown away because you're unnecessarily engaging in melee when the campaign is set up so the entire party kiting the enemy in every fight would be easy ... yeah, you need to ask to reroll a kiting character. Just say you've got the wrong character for the kiting strategies that this campaign is clearly designed to require.

Edit: I missed that you're in a 7 person party with two other strong melee plus 2 off-melee. That explains why they didn't go down. You definitely need to tell them you're tired of carrying the weight, and those other meleers need to step up and do their job and take some hits. Or if you want to be less aggressive, and more passive-aggressive, just hold back a bit and let them.

I know, but outside of combat, my character has nothing to do. I'm not the best conversationalist irl, so rp-ing is a bit tricky for me. I also lack any non-combat skills or abilities, so all I end up doing is waiting for the next battle. I want more versatility and switching to druid with a level of barbarian at lv. 11 will fill the role of tank and the spells will give me some out of combat abilities to do more than wait for the next fight. All I'll really end up losing is the reach and extra damage that is okay, but if I'm going to tank, my damage output doesn't need to be high anyways.

[Aprender]

You don't have to be an excellent role player or have a bunch of cool class abilities to "do something" out of combat. Sure, what you're doing might not be as optimized for success as if the bard (Cha), cleric (Wis) or wizard (Int) did it, but so what. The same way they shouldn't just sit back and do nothing during combat because 'you're more optimized for that", you don't have to take a passive role out of combat.

Go ahead, half-orc, and talk to that barmaid, magic item vendor or prince regent. Look for hidden doors when it occurs to you. Swing from a chandalier or two. You get to play every bit of the game. You just might roll a little lower statistically, and that's OK.

[opaopajr]

This sounds "Houseruled Up Beyond All Recognition," HUBAR, an ancient condition that has been present in all games and their editions. It is often due to GM frustrations with the players' ease of game and overcompensating to stress test in the opposite direction. Or it could be a game in a control freak's hands, which comes out to the same difference.

I would test out Dodge. That is a solid action, deliberately designed to increase survivability in exchange for action economy and available to all. If your GM messes with that too -- as they did with Disengage and Action Surge -- while not messing with (let alone downing) the rest of the party, then I have my answer: frustrated GM-itis leading to HUBAR.

Too many houserule changes made without an eye towards 'give' as well as 'take' leads to lopsided design. That means the GMs are deeply frustrated with the system's aesthetics than spoken, and a far greater Table Talk needs to be in order. It might even lead to a different system, like Adventures of Middle Earth.

[Osrogue]

If you want to stay a barbarian and are worried about dying every session, try switching to a zealot barbarian. They cost nothing to resurrect so you don’t have to actually worry about kicking the bucket.

That being said, moon druids are excellent and the closest thing to indestructible this game has. The elemental forms in particular come with a wide variety of condition immunities and nifty tricks that can outright trivialize certain enemies and challenges when employed strategically.

[Mordaedil]

Start leaning into your barbarianism more. Rip your foes apart and pick them up and use them as your weapons against their allies. Be as savage as to unnerve the DM.

[Lacco]

As somebody said, if it's stressfull, it's not really good game - certain amount of tension and adrenaline is fine, but if you are not having fun, it's not worth it. That said...


Start leaning into your barbarianism more. Rip your foes apart and pick them up and use them as your weapons against their allies. Be as savage as to unnerve the DM.

...great advice. Go full Conan and before each fight pray to gods to give you revenge, spend your free action shouting obscenities at enemies, embrace character death viking-style (if you die in battle, you get to feast with gods) and mope when you survive. :smallcool:

And when you die, pick a character that will not get into these situations. You already want a switch, so why not do it with style? And enjoy the ride.

[Spore]

What you dread is right up my alley. Talk to your DM about your preferences.

[Spiritchaser]

(if anyone is curious, this campaign is based off of the Dresden Files book series).

In a sense, this fits. Combat encounters in those books often feel a hairsbreadth from disaster, certainly they’re higher stress than a typical 5e encounter. I’ve enjoyed some days where every fight was deadly or worse, but certainly not always, and I’d imagine you’d be facing that, or more again besides?

You can make a campaign like that work, but everyone needs to buy into it, and the DM needs to be aware that some party roles are going to be excessively over stressed, and if that isn’t fun then they need to fix it.

If we look to the book for inspiration, most of the effective melee characters were either well beyond human (werewolves, vampires) or they had magical swords best described in 5e terms as holy avengers, or maybe they were even better than that.

Maybe he’ll give the party tank that broken sword hilt...

Insert sound effects here.

[darknite]

That Life Cleric in the party should at least be casting Protection from Good/Evil on your tank. While the encounters sound hard, your party should be respecting that and preparing accordingly.

[Willie the Duck]

That Life Cleric in the party should at least be casting Protection from Good/Evil on your tank. While the encounters sound hard, your party should be respecting that and preparing accordingly.

Honestly, the only solid thing I can say is that the playing group needs a good huddle -- a 'you are all going to listen, take this seriously, and work with me on resolving this problem' conversation. It seems like the rest of the group enjoys playing 'no-tactical-coordination gameplay', and the DM enjoys playing 'mess with game balance' and putting the OP (and any other melee tanks) in the middle. The actual solution I'm not sure of -- maybe change one of those two factors, or simply prepare for the consequences (a zealot barbarian who has to get rezzed every third game session is not a horrible thing... if the party is prepared for it and the person playing them is on board for the ride).

[RulesJD]

TAKE THE DODGE ACTION.






There, now that we've solved that problem, what else? Oh and hopefully you've taken Riposte as a BM fighter so you can punish the enemy for missing. Dodge + Bear Rage = the DM is either doing the most boring turns on the planet missing you constantly and only doing 1/2 damage when he does, or he stops attacking you and then you get to go to town.

[stoutstien]

TAKE THE DODGE ACTION.






There, now that we've solved that problem, what else? Oh and hopefully you've taken Riposte as a BM fighter so you can punish the enemy for missing. Dodge + Bear Rage = the DM is either doing the most boring turns on the planet missing you constantly and only doing 1/2 damage when he does, or he stops attacking you and then you get to go to town.

If the DM is jacking the +hit of the NPCs to 20+ with 3 or more attacks what good is dodge going to do? Also doesn't address the fact the DM is using weighted dice hence the abnormal critical rate

[Guy Lombard-O]

For reference, this is actually pretty bad advice. Especially when referencing the underlined bit. It basically gets you to the same place as talking to the DM, except you go there by being cowardly and passive-aggressive instead of talking to your friends. Personally speaking, if a player of mine pulled something like that, I would be pretty upset, both because A) I failed to read my table and B) they just signaled that they think I'm a jerk.

Whereas just going to the DM and going "Hey man, I just want to say that I haven't been having fun in the last few sessions. I feel like I'm getting beaten up without being able to do anything to stop it. Would it be OK if I rerolled as a [X]?" will at least open lines of communication. Heck, talking it over with the whole party can also be really helpful - even if it turns out that everyone else loves the murderous difficulty, at least everyone will be on the same page.

Well, I certainly respect your opinion and can't say you're wrong in any way (except the "cowardly" part, this approach is more tactically navigating the possible group dynamics in my eyes), but I obviously see things differently.

First, in case you couldn't tell before, I'm really not at all convinced that this DM and the player group are really his "friends". I'm deeply suspicious of the way he's getting mobbed up by this DM, and the OP's feeling of basically getting left there deep in the s*^t once he's surrounded. I can see why you'd be upset about one of your players reacting this way. But then again, would you really be running this kind of a souped-up killer campaign in the first place? And would you be (apparently regularly) ganging your ultra-lethal bad guys up on this one PC? I'm going to give you the credit of thinking not.

Second, I'm reading between the lines that this DM is on a tear, and out to prove that his campaign is a strict departure of their last campaign. It sounds like their last campaign was an evil-murderhobo-style campaign, played on easy mode. I think it's evident that this DM didn't care for that a great deal, and is now trying to show the group "how it should be done". His world is dangerous, he wants his combats to be lethal, and the PCs need to be smart and tough to survive his challenges. Quite frankly, I think this DM wants to inflict a PC death, to establish his world's "dangerousness" credentials. Seeing one of the PCs die may be exactly what he's looking for, and he may just keep pushing until he gets there.

Third, the high difficulty mode of this campaign isn't really the problem here. Apparently, all the other players are good with it, "taking it in stride". The problem is that the high difficulty is stressing out the OP. So, if the OP stops stressing about it, the problem goes away. Accepting that his PC will very likely die should remove that stress, even if he doesn't actually die right away. He wanted to play a reckless berserker. So...he should do it. If he gets that mindset that the PC is going to die and plays him like a crazed manic, he may actually start to finally enjoy this character. Or, he may immediately die, which frees him up to play something different and less stressful.

So, if he does this, the OP wins by reducing/eliminating his stress. The DM wins by proving the lethality of his game combats (and maybe chilling the heck out thereafter?). The other players (and the DM) win by getting to keep playing the campaign the way it's intended to run, and get a better sense of the stakes involved in combat (and if they're secretly ignoring the OP/barbarian's perils, they'll get paid back by having to take his place as the damage-sponges). And the barbarian character himself wins, getting played out the way he was designed and going out like a boss, instead of being discarded with a whimper.

If I trusted this group better, my advice might be different. But in my experience, talking things out doesn't always lead to a better outcome (especially if some of the parties don't have each other's best interests at heart). Sometimes, it only leads to hurt feelings and a hardening of their positions (plus, the OP said he isn't really a good persuasive speaker IRL).

[RulesJD]

If the DM is jacking the +hit of the NPCs to 20+ with 3 or more attacks what good is dodge going to do? Also doesn't address the fact the DM is using weighted dice hence the abnormal critical rate

Because I seriously doubt they actually have +20 to-hit and the player is misunderstanding. Unless the DM was saying "They roll 39 to hit but it's not a crit" then it wasn't actually +20 to hit. He was getting 20+ vs AC, sure. And weighted dice? I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt that.

[samcifer]

If the DM is jacking the +hit of the NPCs to 20+ with 3 or more attacks what good is dodge going to do? Also doesn't address the fact the DM is using weighted dice hence the abnormal critical rate

To be fair, it's not that the dice are weighted, it's just that he's rolling to attack far more often than we players are, hence him getting crits more often than any of the rest of us. It's just that I bought that same set of light up dice for my fiancé when he was the dm and he loved them. It's just that statistically, the DM will always get more crits than players because he's rolling much more often than the players.

[RulesJD]

To be fair, it's not that the dice are weighted, it's just that he's rolling to attack far more often than we players are, hence him getting crits more often than any of the rest of us. It's just that I bought that same set of light up dice for my fiancé when he was the dm and he loved them. It's just that statistically, the DM will always get more crits than players because he's rolling much more often than the players.

Seriously man, Dodge Action. Live it, learn it, love it. You still get Reaction attacks with PAM/Riposte, and/or you can Dodge Action then Action Surge into your normal attack routine. Either your DM learns to stop wasting attacks against you, or you become a tank god. With 5e's action economy the Dodge Action + Bear Resists basically lets you tank well above your level. You're lucky to have a really good build for it as well, especially if you ever pick up the Sentinel feat.

And honestly, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me. You purposely choose probably the second strongest melee build in the game with PAM+GWM+BM+Bear Barb. He even gave you a radiant damage polearm for unknown reasons in an undead campaign.

[samcifer]

Seriously man, Dodge Action. Live it, learn it, love it. You still get Reaction attacks with PAM/Riposte, and/or you can Dodge Action then Action Surge into your normal attack routine. Either your DM learns to stop wasting attacks against you, or you become a tank god. With 5e's action economy the Dodge Action + Bear Resists basically lets you tank well above your level. You're lucky to have a really good build for it as well, especially if you ever pick up the Sentinel feat.

And honestly, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me. You purposely choose probably the second strongest melee build in the game with PAM+GWM+BM+Bear Barb. He even gave you a radiant damage polearm for unknown reasons in an undead campaign.

Well we just hit lv. 10, so I went for a 5th lv. of Fighter. My plan is to go Fighter 6 at the next level for another ASI/feat and take Mobile, which will help me get out of those kinds of situations more easily as I can use my 3 attacks (thanks to Polearm Master), to make it so I can retreat from them more easily and not worry about dropping out of rage for not attacking that turn.

In the meat time, I've created a firbolg Moon druid (all 10 levels for elemental forms) with max wisdom as well as the tough and Mobile feats. I think I'll play more recklessly and not care if he dies and if I reach level 11, I'll add a level of Monk to the druid for higher AC in many of his beast forms.

[GlenSmash!]

Well we just hit lv. 10, so I went for a 5th lv. of Fighter. My plan is to go Fighter 6 at the next level for another ASI/feat and take Mobile, which will help me get out of those kinds of situations more easily as I can use my 3 attacks (thanks to Polearm Master), to make it so I can retreat from them more easily and not worry about dropping out of rage for not attacking that turn.

In the meat time, I've created a firbolg Moon druid (all 10 levels for elemental forms) with max wisdom as well as the tough and Mobile feats. I think I'll play more recklessly and not care if he dies and if I reach level 11, I'll add a level of Monk to the druid for higher AC in many of his beast forms.

Mobile is an underrated feat for a Barbarian. Especially if Melee is as pressed a it is for you. Did you already get Barbarian to 5 for extra movement?

[RulesJD]

Well we just hit lv. 10, so I went for a 5th lv. of Fighter. My plan is to go Fighter 6 at the next level for another ASI/feat and take Mobile, which will help me get out of those kinds of situations more easily as I can use my 3 attacks (thanks to Polearm Master), to make it so I can retreat from them more easily and not worry about dropping out of rage for not attacking that turn.

In the meat time, I've created a firbolg Moon druid (all 10 levels for elemental forms) with max wisdom as well as the tough and Mobile feats. I think I'll play more recklessly and not care if he dies and if I reach level 11, I'll add a level of Monk to the druid for higher AC in many of his beast forms.

Um, you maintain Rage so long as you take damage on a turn. You can Rage + Dodge without attacking all day long so long as you take even 1 point of damage.

[Willie the Duck]

Um, you maintain Rage so long as you take damage on a turn. You can Rage + Dodge without attacking all day long so long as you take even 1 point of damage.

Or taken an attack (including a Battlemaster-aided reaction-attack), however, that does mean that if you come around to your turn without getting hit or getting in a reaction attack, you'd better take a swing.

[BloodOgre]

I DMed last night and rolled a nat 20 exactly once. Most of the other players rolled at least one crit and another rolled three in a row (granted, he did so with advantage on each roll, still...). Sometimes the dice get hot, sometimes they go cold.

As for the DM, refer him to the rules on disengaging, and try to politely suggest that he get a firmer grasp of the core rules before he goes mucking about with them. The rules are there for a reason. I have a few house rules that I tend to use and they are used by other DMs I know as well, they are well thought out and tested. There are plenty of other rules that I am not thrilled with, but they are there for balance and balance is the cornerstone that 5e was built upon.

I also tweak monsters. One basic rule I have is to tweak no more than one feature. This almost always increases it's CR by 1. When you increase more than one feature or attribute you can easily overpower a monster. You might suggest to your DM that he make small tweaks to monsters to see the effect before making bigger tweaks. Also, I often find that the best way to increase the difficulty of an encounter is to add additional monsters, NOT bump up the existing monster stats.

Finally, as a player, my character does have some amount of intelligence. And even a barbarian, when out of battler, knows when to tell the party, "No one else wants to take a long rest?" followed by "OK, you guys have fun. Let me know how it goes" OR "I'm staying in the back, and if $h!+ goes down, I'm leaving."

Finally, if the DM and group aren't going to accommodate you so that it is fun for you, then find another group.

I tend to up the difficulty of my encounters, but I don't overpower, and always have people leaving the table saying "That was fun". It can be done. But a DM has to know what they are doing.

[qube]

I was told that I could only disengage from a single foe, taking aos from the others for moving away, which I'm not sure is correct or not. Not sure if this has been noted or not but


disengage : If you take the Disengage action, your Movement doesn’t provoke Opportunity Attacks for the rest of the turn.

in RAW, disengage is against everyone. including, FYI, enemies that don't start as being adjacent. (you can disengange, THEN run past 3 enemies; and still don't provoke)


I think I'd rather play an evocation wizard as we just hit lv. 10, or at least a light monk so I can attack from range and not worry so much about being swarmed. if you still want to tank but with less stress, you could always play a conjurer. (Summon Greater Demon is quite fun)

[Pex]

And honestly, you don't get a lot of sympathy from me. You purposely choose probably the second strongest melee build in the game with PAM+GWM+BM+Bear Barb. He even gave you a radiant damage polearm for unknown reasons in an undead campaign.

How dare a player follow the rules and choose one among many fun and effective options the game provides. You're right. He must be punished.

If you think the DM is being fair, fine, but it's not cool to imply it's ok for the DM to be unfair because the player has a build you don't like.

[patchyman]

Dodge + Bear Rage = the DM is either doing the most boring turns on the planet missing you constantly and only doing 1/2 damage when he does, or he stops attacking you and then you get to go to town.

Note that if none of the enemies hit and you don’t use Riposte (because you ran out or otherwise), you lose your Rage.

[Willie the Duck]

How dare a player follow the rules and choose one among many fun and effective options the game provides. You're right. He must be punished.

If you think the DM is being fair, fine, but it's not cool to imply it's ok for the DM to be unfair because the player has a build you don't like.

It's worth mentioning that we already know that the DM is reacting to the previous campaign, where the OP mentioned that they were "massively over-powered." The possibility that this current scenario is two people each raising the stakes, making the other feel constantly on the ropes, and responding in kind, is well worth considering.

In theory, the game works at any power level. If the party is more powerful they can simply square off against larger challenges. However, I have noticed that as the power level goes up (usually monty haul magic items, but also high powered builds or favorable stat distributions) that you end up with very fragile equilibriums -- damage goes up, as does defense/preventative offense, but any slight wavering or unexpected outcome becomes amplified. The current situation has too much of the DM offensive escalation falling on the shoulders of one portion of the PC group, and the rest of the team not taking up any slack to compensate. It is worth considering that, if the PCs want to continue with the playstyle they are currently doing (where the non-tank members aren't being perfectly tactical optimizers and not exactly doing everything to take the suffering off of the tank), that an overall lowering of the power levels on both sides of the equation might make that situation more bearable.

[samcifer]

Mobile is an underrated feat for a Barbarian. Especially if Melee is as pressed a it is for you. Did you already get Barbarian to 5 for extra movement?

Yes, I'm 5 / 5 on bear totem barbarian / battle master fighter

[GlenSmash!]

Yes, I'm 5 / 5 on bear totem barbarian / battle master fighter

That should combine well with mobile then.

I took my current Barbarian to 5 then went Ranger going Gloomstalker for the extra movement and attack in the first round of combat. Longstrider and zephyr strike to help with mobility too.

As much as the Barbarian seems to be meant to stand in one place and take a beating, it's just not that practical for all combats.

[samcifer]

I think the main issue is that I'm too used to playing ranged characters who strike with spells from a distance.

If I don't go with the druid, I also have a half-elf evocation wizard ready to go as well, and if we go to lv. 11 before I get to play him, I might go Hexblade for the curse. That stacked with the lv. 10 evo wiz feature would add +9 damage to each spell or magic missile, letting me do 33+ damage on a level 1 Mag Missile spell, which is not bad damage for the most part, especially with auto-hit. Sure there are better options, but I'd rather go for guaranteed damage spells such as MM and ones that do half-damage on a save.

Again I know that being a blaster is far from the most effective kind of wizard to play, but I like it because I'm at least doing SOMETHING if the foes manage their save vs. Polymorph or Banishment if the target manages to pass the save, leaving me down a spell slot and nothing to show for my efforts.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

As far as teamwork, well... Yeah, we don't really do that very much. Each of us does our own thing for the most part except for the cleric who focuses on supporting all of us in battle. The rogue player always tend to play a****** characters (rhymes with jay bowl) and this character acts like he's the one in charge, only he knows what he's doing and looks down on the other members of the party, but never tries to counter anything we're doing. He would say things like how he's the most important member of the party, so why wouldn't everyone loan him the massive amounts of money to go out and purchase a super expensive item for himself. We the other pc characters shot him down, he just shrugged in acceptance and said we were all jerks for not helping him. The player did this on an offhanded joking manner and we knew he wasn't actively being a jerk play, just a jerk character. :)

I'm here late, but I think the bigger problem is what you've said here about the lack of teamwork (not necessarily the other PC specifically). From my brief skim through your comments, it sounds like you've got an overly tanky party with two Bear Totem Barbs, a Paladin, a Cleric, and possibly a Hexblade. The note about the DM giving an unbalanced game is true, but that's never going to be perfect. What can be closer to perfect is how you work together as a team. You guys can probably be fine for the most part if you work on that (since you've made it this far without working together well apparently).

This is clearly seen when you said the party wouldn't take a long rest but then made you tank alone.

You guys need to prioritize targets, move tactically around the battlefield, and actively try to support the other members of the party. If you're all just doing your own thing it's a miracle there hasn't been a TPK yet with these imbalanced baddies.

I play a Wizard and had to have a serious conversation about not leaving me for dead when I drop in combat. There was a really close call and the Paladin and Rogues just ignored that I was down. Since then we've learned to talk to each other on each of our turns to try and decide what's best for the party in each combat. If you aren't doing that then someone is going to get killed and you'll all be responsible.

[RulesJD]

How dare a player follow the rules and choose one among many fun and effective options the game provides. You're right. He must be punished.

If you think the DM is being fair, fine, but it's not cool to imply it's ok for the DM to be unfair because the player has a build you don't like.

I've only been active again for like a month or so and I've already seen 4-5 posts about "Hi I'm a DM and a Bearbarian Totem GWM player is ruining my combats for the rest of the players!" This player knows exactly what they are doing by building the most specific build possible for powergaming. The DM power gamed back, not gonna get sympathy for that. They've been given advice on how to specifically avoid the described situation (Rage + Dodge + how Disengage actually works), but all they seem to want to do is make a more powerful character. Don't be surprised if you roll a powergamed designed Evoc Wizard and suddenly enemies with Counterspell show up.

[Contrast]

I think the main issue is that I'm too used to playing ranged characters who strike with spells from a distance.

Unless a combat is incredibly one sided, someone is taking the damage. In a party of 5 people, if 3 are playing ranged characters who avoid damage that doesn't mean the party is only taking 3/5ths of the damage it will usually just mean the remaining 2 players are taking 1/2 the damage each instead of 1/5th of the damage. This isn't necessarily a problem of course as some classes are much better at tanking damage than others (such as barbarian).

It may be worth considering the question of if the reason the others seem fine with it is because they're enjoying being the one not taking damage this campaign compared to previous ones where you were playing the damage avoidy ranged characters. :smallwink:

As previously said this doesn't magically make the game more enjoyable for you though of course and there isn't really much sense in spending your leisure time doing something you don't enjoy.

Edit -


I've only been active again for like a month or so and I've already seen 4-5 posts about "Hi I'm a DM and a Bearbarian Totem GWM player is ruining my combats for the rest of the players!" This player knows exactly what they are doing by building the most specific build possible for powergaming. The DM power gamed back, not gonna get sympathy for that. They've been given advice on how to specifically avoid the described situation (Rage + Dodge + how Disengage actually works), but all they seem to want to do is make a more powerful character. Don't be surprised if you roll a powergamed designed Evoc Wizard and suddenly enemies with Counterspell show up.

If you think a barb 5/ BM 5 is an insane powergame option I feel like you're going to to be awfully salty about of the power level of...well...most characters.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

One more thing is that switching to a ranged class might make this worse. You're taking a tank out of play and leaving yourself more vulnerable if you go into range. Just food for thought.

[Tanarii]

...great advice. Go full Conan and before each fight pray to gods to give you revenge, spend your free action shouting obscenities at enemies, embrace character death viking-style (if you die in battle, you get to feast with gods) and mope when you survive. :smallcool:
And don't forget to say before every fight "we're all going to die anyway, might as well enjoy it!" so the DM can't try and point the finger at your poor tactics or bad decision making.

Not sure this counts as passive agressive at this point. Starting to get directly aggressive. :)


One more thing is that switching to a ranged class might make this worse. You're taking a tank out of play and leaving yourself more vulnerable if you go into range. Just food for thought.
Yeah, thats the part that confused me too. The Bearbarian otoh makes some kind of sense, but that was later on in the thread.

[darknite]

I like a lot of the advise going on here. My only barbarian also has a decent mix of swashbuckler. The other players are often annoyed that he's not up front soaking hits but hits-and-runs across the battle. I tell them it's his job to survive, kill opponents and not get sliced to ribbons, just like their characters.

[BloodOgre]

I know he's a PAM+GWM+BM+Bear Barb and his job is to tank. But Vampires are smart. They'll go after clerics and paladins first, druids next and then other casters before attacking the tanks, especially if the tank rarely hits them. It is the casters that are doing the damage to the vampires (they still take half damage on unsuccessful saves). There are plenty of ways to go after an OP PC and still make it fun for everyone.

[samcifer]

I know no one has said it and please don't think that I'm ignoring advice on how to play the character better, it's just that I find that playing this character is much less enjoyable and much more limiting on playstyle than I'd at first thought. Waiting for the next combat so I can rage and swing my weapon around while getting hit over and over seems rather boring and taking all that damage makes me very nervous.

If I were a caster like an evo wizard, I would have several more things I could do in combat, could fire from a distance and keep an eye on things as I would have a much wider range of targets since I don't have to restrict myself to melee. On top of that, I tend to be more mindful of what the rest of the party is doing and if a player is in trouble, say the barb or the hexblade, I can lay down a fireball or lightning bolt to help soften up their opponents or try for Hold Person if I need to in order to offer them assistance as I try to be a more conscientious player than most of my play group.

With my current character, I pretty much have to focus on the foes I can approach and start swinging until things start to go south. Also, the requirement of attacking or taking damage to maintain rage also restricts what I can do in battle since I don't dare let it drop due to all the damage I'm having to absorb. It's just making for a rather limited playstyle of combat that I'm not really enjoying and finding stressful due to the constant drops in my hp from the overpowered enemies knowing my chances of being assisted are rather low in this playgroup who did very little to help save our champion fighter who died a few sessions ago leading to the second barbarian character entering the game.

I'd like more variety of options and less stress as far as gameplay goes, is all. :)

[tKUUNK]

Play this character as a body guard for one of the other party members *cough-TheCLERIC-ahem*. Don't leave his / her side. For the safety of all involved. "Can't lose the holy man with all these undead around."

If you don't want your rage to drop, throw something at enemies. Or punch yourself in the head.

[Skylivedk]

I know no one has said it and please don't think that I'm ignoring advice on how to play the character better, it's just that I find that playing this character is much less enjoyable and much more limiting on playstyle than I'd at first thought. Waiting for the next combat so I can rage and swing my weapon around while getting hit over and over seems rather boring and taking all that damage makes me very nervous.

If I were a caster like an evo wizard, I would have several more things I could do in combat, could fire from a distance and keep an eye on things as I would have a much wider range of targets since I don't have to restrict myself to melee. On top of that, I tend to be more mindful of what the rest of the party is doing and if a player is in trouble, say the barb or the hexblade, I can lay down a fireball or lightning bolt to help soften up their opponents or try for Hold Person if I need to in order to offer them assistance as I try to be a more conscientious player than most of my play group.

With my current character, I pretty much have to focus on the foes I can approach and start swinging until things start to go south. Also, the requirement of attacking or taking damage to maintain rage also restricts what I can do in battle since I don't dare let it drop due to all the damage I'm having to absorb. It's just making for a rather limited playstyle of combat that I'm not really enjoying and finding stressful due to the constant drops in my hp from the overpowered enemies knowing my chances of being assisted are rather low in this playgroup who did very little to help save our champion fighter who died a few sessions ago leading to the second barbarian character entering the game.

I'd like more variety of options and less stress as far as gameplay goes, is all. :)

Check LudicSavant's thread on Eclectic and Fun builds. The Arcana Cleric might be more your thing. There's also the neo classic Abjuration Wizard/Hexblade variant and other Armour of Agathys gimmicky builds that allow you to tank and do more than swing pointy sticks. If you want to give pointy stick tanking another go, there's also Paladin of Conquest to look into

[CapnWildefyr]

I'm here late, but I think the bigger problem is what you've said here about the lack of teamwork (not necessarily the other PC specifically). From my brief skim through your comments, it sounds like you've got an overly tanky party with two Bear Totem Barbs, a Paladin, a Cleric, and possibly a Hexblade. The note about the DM giving an unbalanced game is true, but that's never going to be perfect. What can be closer to perfect is how you work together as a team. You guys can probably be fine for the most part if you work on that (since you've made it this far without working together well apparently).

This is clearly seen when you said the party wouldn't take a long rest but then made you tank alone.

Nailed it. If you like the character, talk tactics with your team. Why are you being the blood donor? Make the vamps close on you. If you're being easily surrounded then you are putting yourself in a precarious spot. Talk to you team. Stick closer to home. Retreat if you can. Instead of going toe to toe with vamps can you get them to chase you, to expose themselves somehow outside of their lair? That might not be possible, just thinking aloud.

Really youve got to be having fun, of not go ahead and change characters, but if the team is fighting on the vamps terms a different character might just get eaten sooner.

[stoutstien]

Because I seriously doubt they actually have +20 to-hit and the player is misunderstanding. Unless the DM was saying "They roll 39 to hit but it's not a crit" then it wasn't actually +20 to hit. He was getting 20+ vs AC, sure. And weighted dice? I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt that.
He said they have 20+ to hit so I took it as he been tracking it. He could be exaggerating but if the DM is definitely wanting to hit him so I think the npcs are going to hit him.

All those light up dice are novelties at best as they are not properly weighted.it could be selection bias on his part but I have seen a set of those D20 light up 1/8 of the time..... After 300 rolls. The DM might not intentionally but using bad dice but they're most likely bad dice.

[ProsecutorGodot]

He said they have 20+ to hit so I took it as he been tracking it. He could be exaggerating but if the DM is definitely wanting to hit him so I think the npcs are going to hit him.

All those light up dice are novelties at best as they are not properly weighted.it could be selection bias on his part but I have seen a set of those D20 light up 1/8 of the time..... After 300 rolls. The DM might not intentionally but using bad dice but they're most likely bad dice.

I took it as the monsters rolling 20+ total, not having a modifier of +20.


the bite having insanely high accuracy (usually over 20 to hit and my ac is 20)

Considering these are vampires which normally have +9 to hit it wouldn't be super out of the ordinary for them to meet an AC of 20, full blooded vampires do it 50% of the time. I still think that the DM might be using unfair dice but you're going to have to expect to be hit by a vampire with just 20 AC.

What we do know is that the DM was attacking the player with the bite without grappling them first, which is a pretty hefty increase to the vampires potential damage. Typically they only receive 2 attacks as part of their multiattack and if they use the claw strike to grapple it deals no damage. Even if their modifier to hit was unchanged (I'm inclined to agree that it was modified slightly, but not to something as egregious as +20) it would make them noticeably more deadly considering they can attack 3 times with their multiattack and don't have to use one of their claw attacks to grapple.

[patchyman]

It is worth considering that, if the PCs want to continue with the playstyle they are currently doing (where the non-tank members aren't being perfectly tactical optimizers and not exactly doing everything to take the suffering off of the tank), that an overall lowering of the power levels on both sides of the equation might make that situation more bearable.

Are you suggesting some sort of nuclear disarmament? 😀

[patchyman]

If you think a barb 5/ BM 5 is an insane powergame option I feel like you're going to to be awfully salty about of the power level of...well...most characters.

I doubt it. Power gamers are over represented on boards like this.

[samcifer]

He said they have 20+ to hit so I took it as he been tracking it. He could be exaggerating but if the DM is definitely wanting to hit him so I think the npcs are going to hit him.

All those light up dice are novelties at best as they are not properly weighted.it could be selection bias on his part but I have seen a set of those D20 light up 1/8 of the time..... After 300 rolls. The DM might not intentionally but using bad dice but they're most likely bad dice.

Well to be clear, I saw during the session with the vampires that he had a +6 to hit with the bite because he rolled a 13 and asked me if 19 hits, which fortunately it didn't.

It's possible that he was just having a lot of luck that night (unlike my dearly departed half-elf hexblade/divine soul who failed on search rolls to find any mirror to help him against some gorgons we were about to go face off against, then rolled a botch on a wisdom save to avoid entering a river of forgetfulness that caused me to forget all my leveled spells until after the next long rest that never came because he peaked around a corner in a hedge maze later and was turned to stone instantly, then failed another wisdom save to escape the petrification, forcing me to roll up a new character for the next session)

[Kane0]

Next fight, enter rage and do nothing but dodge. Preferably with a shield and standing next to the other melees. Don't worry about dealing damage, let your party handle it.
Tally up the times you get hit and the damage you would have taken without resistance. No stress, just add up what happens to you.
If you're about to die, calmly open the PHB to page 192 and declare that you are going to bravely run away like Sir Robin. Show the DM that Disengaging makes you immune to Opp Attacks until the end of your turn.

At the end of the fight, show those numbers to the rest of the party and DM. Ask them if this would stress them out if it were happening to them in your place.

[Yakmala]

If your DM will allow it, switch to a Zealot Barbarian with the Acolyte background feature.

You can die as often as once per day and be brought back to life for free. No cost for the service, no material components required.

Death becomes a temporary inconvenience, not something to stress over.

[opaopajr]

To be honest, these sound like teenage angst grudge sessions, samcifer. :smallannoyed: Sounds like the GMs really think putting the houserule thumbscrews is going to counterbalance their dissatisfaction from the previous campaign. :smallfrown: It won't.

There's something deeper going on here, and you are bearing the brunt with a 'gleefully oblivious' party. :smalleek: That is why I said take the Dodge action. It is a litmus test for exposing the game's social undercurrents.

You may not like what you find, but trust someone older: it is better to cauterize the underlying infection in one go and move on healing elsewhere. Festering never works out. It just wastes time and adds more hurtful luggage. :smallcool:

[Lacco]

And don't forget to say before every fight "we're all going to die anyway, might as well enjoy it!" so the DM can't try and point the finger at your poor tactics or bad decision making.

Not sure this counts as passive agressive at this point. Starting to get directly aggressive. :)

Isn't "aggressive" the main barbarian descriptor? :smallwink:

I understand why it would seem passive aggressive, but that was not the intent.

My normal suggestion would be "talk to the GM, be open and open-minded, try to find a compromise" - but this seems past it. I assume the talk has already been done.

The intent was: if you can't change the situation (e.g. GM won't let you switch characters, you want to be useful party member), embrace the situation and change your approach. Roleplay the barbarian to the hilt, accepting the fact that he dies at certain point, but is attempting to die the "glorious death".

The stress - I understand - comes from the fact that they get into life-threatening situation and are the ones getting hit a lot. So embrace it. Welcome every hit, because with each of them you protect your party members. Don't try to get killed, just do your job as meat shield and focus on being the best tank. Just don't be afraid they die - be glad. On character level, the character gets the glorious death - they are free to go to local equivalent of Valhalla and become a badass. On player level, you get a new character - possibly one that won't work as meat shield.

Important thing is: don't go for poor tactics or direct death. This is not the intent. You do your job and do it the best, just change your goal from "survive and continue the game" to "do everything to protect the others and die a glorious IC death".

Imagine seeing a horde of enemies. Changing your approach in this way does not mean there will be less of them or that the result will be different. Changing your approach means that what was "we are going to die!" and a stressful situation becomes "this will be glorious!" and potentially cathartic experience.

[Sparky McDibben]

Also, let us know what happens with this. Now we feel invested!

[samcifer]

Also, let us know what happens with this. Now we feel invested!

The next session won't be until a week from friday (we only meet every other friday with that group), and tbh, I'm not really enjoying playing this character anymore. I think a moon druid will give me the versatility I want and I can summon lots of minions to help me fight and do more damage. I'd played a druid before, but was approaching it from the mentality of a caster who'd never played melee characters before. Now that I've played the barb/fighter, I have a better appreciation for the melee aspects and can appreciate that side of the character better.

Some folk here might remember my old thread where I was having a hard time with playing a druid, but being pure melee has helped me understand the moon druid much better. Also, with lv. 10, I would finally have access to the elemental forms that my previous character never to to access, so there's that to look forward to as well.

I plan on becoming much more reckless with the barb/fighter and when he dies, he dies and I can move on to a more versatile character. I'll talk to the dm first and see if he'd be willing to let me just retire my b/f so I can start playing the druid sooner. I'd just be a different kind of tank that has more options, so it wouldn't be a loss of a tank, really.

[ProsecutorGodot]

The next session won't be until a week from friday (we only meet every other friday with that group), and tbh, I'm not really enjoying playing this character anymore. I think a moon druid will give me the versatility I want and I can summon lots of minions to help me fight and do more damage. I'd played a druid before, but was approaching it from the mentality of a caster who'd never played melee characters before. Now that I've played the barb/fighter, I have a better appreciation for the melee aspects and can appreciate that side of the character better.

Some folk here might remember my old thread where I was having a hard time with playing a druid, but being pure melee has helped me understand the moon druid much better. Also, with lv. 10, I would finally have access to the elemental forms that my previous character never to to access, so there's that to look forward to as well.

I plan on becoming much more reckless with the barb/fighter and when he dies, he dies and I can move on to a more versatile character. I'll talk to the dm first and see if he'd be willing to let me just retire my b/f so I can start playing the druid sooner. I'd just be a different kind of tank that has more options, so it wouldn't be a loss of a tank, really.

Here's hoping you end up enjoying that a bit more.

I find it important to point out though that I don't think that switching your character will fix some of the core issues that seem to be stressing you out. You're not suddenly going to be taking less abuse from over-tuned monsters. At least it should be easier to deal with if you do end up enjoying Moon Druid more.

[samcifer]

So last night's session was... interesting. We had to fight some hobgoblins at an old wooden log fort while searching for some missing girls of the Dik clan and yes, there was TONS of puns made about this as well as the Quent clan and the Azz clan. It was horrible to listen to and this is from a person who enjoys playing the Munchkin card game, mind you.

I decided that I didn't want to be mobbed again, so I moved just into my glaive's reach of a foe, triple reckelessly power attacked (via gwm and polearm master), then retreated back behind the group without raging.

I used the same tactic for round 2 and the full barbarian and the paladin got some serious damage to both of them from being mobbed instead, so on round 3 I decided to start helping out by raging and wading into the fray to be of serious tanking help.
Throughout this the other members of the party expressed confusion over my actions (which I did not elaborate on the reasons of why I was playing the way I was), but the DM quickly picked up on it during the second turn and began to joke that I was going to end up getting another pc killed and humorously reminded me that the other barbarian is my RL fiance who sleeps next to me and they would end up sleeping next to the man who got his (the fiance's) character killed.

Most of the way through the batle the dm picked up on my nervousness (which I've expressed openly and I had been grumbling a few times as to how my character had almost been killed because of not being able to take a long rest to fully regain my max hp lost the the vampires from the last in-game mission/case.

"I feel that you don't really enjoy being a tank," he said. "Would you be happier playing a different type of character? What kind of character would you enjoy playing?" he asked with some humor, knowing that I'm a bit of a meta-gamer/optimizer. I jumped at the chance and said I really enjoyed playing a ranged caster, which he agreed I seemed to enjoy playing more, so we've made plans for my current character to bow out of the campaign (retire from the life of being a para-net investigator working for Dresden from the Dresden Files book series as he's our npc employer in the campaign) and bring in my new Hexblade/Divine Soul sorc character next session.

We then went into a second battle against a hag, who we killed and took an amulet with a living eye in it which I (the player) instantly recognized as being from the Beastmaster movie) and we rested a bit again then went after the hag's 2 sisters. Our paladin was put to sleep when she ran ahead after them (she's a dex-focused oath of ancients tabaxi pally) and they began to drain her. The other barb crushed the necklace which blinded the hags and gave them psychic damage and we were able to get down to help the paladin get back on her feet, then finish off the two hags.

I then reminded the dm that it had been most of 2 sessions and 4 battles since we had last levelled up and he agreed, letting us raise up to lv. 11. I took fighter 6 for another feat - Mobile to give me a way out of mobs without using an action to do so.

On a funny side note, we have a ratling wild magic sorc and he rolled a 1 when trying to cast lightning bolt on the hags, then rolled a 0 on the wild magic table. The dm used a different wm table he found online and began to laugh as he described that the male ratling was now pregnant with 8 clones of himself that would be treated as a full pregnancy using real-life pregnancy rules on RL rats.

We had another case involving undead skeletal dinos and went to the market place where we fought them. I played a bit of the same hit and run at first, but no one was ever in any serious danger this battle and we killed them all, the ratling (who hadn't yet realized he was pregnant,) was very timid and self-protective during the battle without understanding why he felt that way.

After that I admittedly tued out as I began to work up my new caster character in preparation for him coming in and the rogue/cleric discovered that the sorc was pregnant and attacked him out of fear and disgust as well as wanting to stop the obnoxious ratling from reproducing. A fight broke out but was resolved quickly with no real damage or deaths.

So since I'll be covering a different character for this campaign, I feel that a separate thread might be better for discussing him, so I'll make a separate thread to cover him named New Detective.

[The Glyphstone]

Do we call this a happy ending then? You get to change characters and no one is upset or penalized?

[samcifer]

Do we call this a happy ending then? You get to change characters and no one is upset or penalized?

Seriously?!? I just spilled soda all over my main lsptop, my older laptop's keyboard doesn't want to work and you're here whining about the dm letting me change characters? I don't need that right now!

[ProsecutorGodot]

Seriously?!? I just spilled soda all over my main lsptop, my older laptop's keyboard doesn't want to work and you're here whining about the dm letting me change characters? I don't need that right now!

I don't think he was whining, I think he was commenting that the situation has been resolved in a way that everyone involved is (hopefully) happy with.

[samcifer]

I don't think he was whining, I think he was commenting that the situation has been resolved in a way that everyone involved is (hopefully) happy with.

Sorry, just freaking out about my computer troubles right now.


Update: Fortunately my laptop is okay. Looks like I dodged a bullet there, but it was too close a call for my taste. This laptop is less than a year old and since I just spent a lot of money moving to a new home, I can't afford to buy a new computer so soon. :(

Sorry again for snapping at people, it's... Been a mostly bad and heavily stressful year for me so far, marked with numerous sicknesses (several colds in a row, then bronchitis) severe cramping leg pains due to bad reactions to blood pressure meds and lots of extra expenses I hadn't planned on, such as spending over $250 on doc visits and meds regarding the bronchitis.