Resurrection Abuse

[Kyutaru]

Players love their revive spells. It's the great undo button that has long since lost its teeth that made it a last resort in 2nd edition. But that which players can do, villains can also do.

So do your villains use it? Do you have particularly annoying bad guys who come back more times than Team Rocket?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Players love their revive spells. It's the great undo button that has long since lost its teeth that made it a last resort in 2nd edition. But that which players can do, villains can also do.

So do your villains use it? Do you have particularly annoying bad guys who come back more times than Team Rocket?

I may if a bigger bad guy comes along. Really I like Reincarnate more than Riade Dead. Change the species of a bad guy five sessions later when his boss uses a scroll of Reincarnate on him and the party won't know what hit them. They may even enjoy killing the fellow again!

[Torpin]

for bosses below cr 10 no, cr 11-13 sometimes, cr14+ whenever possible
for sub bosses below cr 13 no above sometimes
for things like dragons and what have you ALWAYS

[Tanarii]

So do your villains use it? Do you have particularly annoying bad guys who come back more times than Team Rocket?
Yes, of course. Most of them have access to more resources than the players do, and IMC players just need 500gp and to be able to reach the nearest city with the ten days. Easily doable after at least one T2 adventuring hoard find.

Of course, I'm running a persistent world. So usually it's other groups of players that encounter and deal with the Villain, wherever they manage to re-establish themselves. Often in the same location, with some better defenses. But being killed usually does usually put a dent in their plans .. and wallet.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I don't typically lean on resurrection spells for Villains, not because I don't think they should have them, but because they have the "time" to prepare other failsafes.

Clones see frequent use. I don't think many would argue that Clone sees more use as a recurring Villain tool than a player failsafe.

[Porcupinata]

I've had bad guys get raised/resurrected/reincarnated by their friends. I've had bad guys come back as clones. I've had bad guys turn out to be simulacra. And I've had bad guys come back as revenants.

But all of the above are in the minority. Most bad guys stay dead, for both in and out of character reasons.

The in-character reason is that, being bad guys, they're less likely to have friends who care enough to go to the effort of raising them. Especially because if there's some kind of cabal or organisation it's likely that the PCs are going after the whole group so the other members are either also dead or more concerned with saving themselves.

The out-of-character reason is that it's boring to have every bad guy come back. It's more interesting if it only happens very occasionally and therefore takes the players by surprise when it does. Besides, the ways of stopping people coming back from the dead tend to be the sort of things heroic adventurers wouldn't be able to do with a good conscience, and again while such a moral dilemma might be interesting on a very rare occasion, it gets trite and boring if it happens too often.

[Tanarii]

Especially because if there's some kind of cabal or organisation it's likely that the PCs are going after the whole group so the other members are either also dead or more concerned with saving themselves.I thought it was already a given that every BBEG is secretly working for a Bigger Bad Evil Guy with more resources, who is to be faced down after several more adventures? Who might have very good reasons to bring back his former pawn.
This is a common trope in D&D single-party campaigns, but obviously it's not a given and usually DMs don't bother bring back old BBEGs in this situation, you just move towards the next one.


Besides, the ways of stopping people coming back from the dead tend to be the sort of things heroic adventurers wouldn't be able to do with a good conscience, and again while such a moral dilemma might be interesting on a very rare occasion, it gets trite and boring if it happens too often.Burning them down to ashes on a funeral pyre eliminates Revivify, Raise Dead, Reincarnation and Resurrection. That just leaves True Resurrection. And it's far more respectful than just leaving the body lying there.

IMX players pretty much always just leave bodies to rot. Even the goodiest two shoes of Paladins and Clerics. It's like they expect them to fade into nothingness after being looted.

Looting of course requiring nothing more disgusting than right-clicking and having the entirety of valuable possessions (and only the valuable stuff) appear in their inventory

Edit: I get that not everyone wants to deal with disposition of bodies (or the gruesomeness of looting), especially repetitively for every combat. But it's worth checking with or reminding the players it happens periodically. If only so you don't end up assuming one thing does or doesn't happen as DM, while the players are assuming another.

[erikun]

The biggest problem is that, once you teach your party that they need to be properly disposing of enemy corpses, then will then take the time to properly dispose of ALL enemy corpses from then on out. Why wouldn't they? It's not as if taking an extra ten minutes after every battle will really matter, and a Wizard's Fire Bolt will eventually burn the bodies to ash with enough applications outside being under water. However, it does mean chewing up a lot of game table time while everybody in the party discusses what exactly they are doing, chopping off heads, smashing skeletons, etc. D&D combat takes long enough at my table, thanks. I don't need to spend another 15 minutes going through exactly how the party is disposing of every enemy body after every fight.

That's the thing. You are "reminding players" of some mundane drudgery that nobody is dealing with because it just chews up too much game time to bother with. Yes, we could roleplay the characters going through every pocket, turning over every corpse, stabbing every body in the throat to ensure they're dead, wiping the blood and grime from their weapons, breaking out water and rations and eating every day, etc. However, that all gets incredibly tedious and is generally just used more efficient to move on to the next situation in the game. It's just assumed that they're taking care of the minor details, and bringing such details to the forefront (Haha, you didn't cut off this one BBEG's head!) is just asking everybody at the table to spend game time dealing with the situation after every encounter.

This is why it's more effective to use in only specific situations, especially if it is an unusual or distinct situation. If the last villain is back because of a resurrection, then it can be a surprise but the party will just make sure their extra-dead this time. If the last villain is back and their head is attached to a golem body and reanimated as undead to return them (or perhaps an undead heart inside a golem body) then that's both a more interesting fight and not something the players could've reasonably avoided.

[Tanarii]

Why wouldn't they? It's not as if taking an extra ten minutes after every battle will really matter,
And if time is meaningless and the players have all of it that they need, whether or not they use it to burn the bodies is the least of your problems.

[erikun]

And if time is meaningless and the players have all of it that they need, whether or not they use it to burn the bodies is the least of your problems.
Players are expected to be travelling for around 8 hours a day. They're expected to be sleeping around 8 hours a day. Even considering meals and breaks for rest, there is a considerably amount of flex time unless the location is currently collapsing or there are large numbers of wandering monsters in the area.

The problem is that the time it takes to destory an enemy body - especially with the right magic cantrips - is fairly minor, but the amount of game time it chews up is quite a bit. Punishing the players for a fairly minor oversight (that is, not disposing of the bodies properly) is basically requesting them to spend that game time after every battle, probably several times per session, in order to ensure that it doesn't happen again. There are a lot of things that the table collectively focuses on and a lot of things that the table collectively ignores. By having resurrecting big bads in your games, you are stating that dealing with enemy corpses is one of those things that the party should focus on and that it is important to devote game time towards.

And hey, if that's what you want, then certainly use it in your game. But people should be aware that is effectively what they are doing when they start resurrecting every defeated enemy, or even major enemy, they run across.

I find that introducing new enemies is more interesting anyways. Players tend to enjoy their victories, and tend to get annoyed when that's taken away from them. It's why you don't want to be doing so very frequently, only with major threats or opponents.

[Tanarii]

Players are expected to be travelling for around 8 hours a day. They're expected to be sleeping around 8 hours a day. Even considering meals and breaks for rest, there is a considerably amount of flex time unless the location is currently collapsing or there are large numbers of wandering monsters in the area.
This is what I meant. If you're running a game like the former, or spending a lot of table time on it, then time rapidly becomes meaningless in the game, and players can take however long they like to do stuff. And that results in a lot bigger issues to be addressed than "did you remember to burn the bodies so they can't be raised". You might as well set the default that you do it all the time, along with a default that you take the time to search the bodies for loot.

But since it is repetitive, when time is an important factor as a general rule, you can establish a standard procedure for a few repetitive things. My campaigns standard set by parties is usually "unless otherwise stated, we take time to check the bodies for valuables." But body disposal hasn't ever been assumed (yet), usually time is considered too valuable for that except in very specific circumstances. Even varying from the standard and not looting is relatively common.

[Kyutaru]

One of the ways to deal with this partially is by enforcing the bounty system trope of returning with the head of the slain. Bringing back the head is not only proof that you murdered the guy but also that he can't be raised.

[ProsecutorGodot]

One of the ways to deal with this partially is by enforcing the bounty system trope of returning with the head of the slain. Bringing back the head is not only proof that you murdered the guy but also that he can't be raised.

Which is something my Bounty Hunter PC did often, to the horror of the other party members.

Most times with my Paladin I either burn the remains if they are undead or there are undead within a certain area around or the battle itself has left the remains in enough of a state that resurrection is already out of the question. This tends to happen pretty frequently with our party sorcerer casting brain exploding or face melting magic and the party fighter wielding a maul crackling with thunder and fire.

I'm almost certain that our DM assumes the party is dealing with the bodies at this point, it was something we were vocal about early (for one reason or another) and despite falling into something only mentioned in specific cases (like the undead scenario above) we're not usually reminded about that Drow we killed 3 weeks ago still festering in the same forgotten hallway of Undermountain.