Dark Sun Using SoP/SoM

[SwordChucks]

I'm looking at starting a game of Dark Sun using Pathfinder and Spheres of Power/Might (and DSP's Psionics), but the more I look into it the harder it seems to be.

The main dilemma is that Dark Sun is a restrictive setting, with few playable races and some classes unavailable, while SoP/M is very much about choice and repeatable effects. So I'm off to a bad start. Is there a way to allow more player choice without sacrificing the Dark Sun feel?

Next up is casting. In SoP players get a fair number of spell points even at first level as well as at will base sphere effects, so their's really not that much reason to be tempted to use defiling magic. This bothers me because in a setting where gray morality is front and center, defiling is the nuclear option with which casters should grapple.

Other little things that I'd like help with include: Should Bards get casting? What classes should be available from Pathfinder, SoP, SoM, CotS, and Psionics Unleashed? Feel free to include any tips you have for running a Dark Sun campaign, any help will be appreciated.

[Thealtruistorc]

Casting Traditions are your best friend here. There is actually a specific drawback to represent defiling, and once you get to higher levels the spell point difference is notable (also, boons). Other casting traditions can replicate psionics, so that’s something which can be done within SoP.

It is still very possible to have a lot of character choice while still keeping to the feel of Dark Sun. I could see most of the Spheres and Sphere classes operating well in the setting. Maybe certain classes could be restricted to specific casting traditions (making thaumaturges or incanters be defiler-only might encourage players to turn to destruction).

As for bards, I think they could work either way. The alchemy and scoundrel spheres capture the feel of a Dark Sun bard quite well in my opinion.

[dude123nice]

As has been mentioned already, there are ways of simulating Dark Sun casting. But there is something more important. One of the greatest problem with integrating Sop content into Dark Sun, is that there are to many Spheres and/or talents that can solve a lot of problems in the setting. You might want to limit or outright ban the following: Weather(just ban), Creation(heavily limit), Nature(partial limit), Life(maybe take out some talents). And if you feel like there are still to many spellpoints for non-defining spellcaster, attach some Drawbacks without giving anything in return, or giving some of the weaker boons.

[SwordChucks]

That's a great point. I had considered banning some spheres, but I hadn't put much thought into which ones. For Nature sphere I was considering removing Create Air, Create Water, Grow Plants, and due to the rarity of metal on Athas the Metal talents.

Are there any other talents I'm missing from Nature or am I going overboard by banning Metal outright?

[Mehangel]

If I were to run a SoMP Dark Sun game, I would enforce custom setting specific casting traditions. I may very well limit what spheres each tradition could take, and place limits on Creation and Nature to prevent the creation and manipulation of metal.

If you have not seen it already, the Terrain Casting general drawback and Terrain Defiler drawback feat might be appropriate to one or more casting traditions.

[Malroth]

Rather than an outright ban on Water and Air talents a Spell point cost penalty might work better because there was some limited magics that improved life in those areas but it was rare and fought over.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Rather than an outright ban on Water and Air talents a Spell point cost penalty might work better because there was some limited magics that improved life in those areas but it was rare and fought over.

Or make them Advanced Talents with a CL requirement; representing only potent characters could learn the techniques. Or alternatively, lock it behind a side quest.

[SwordChucks]

I like the idea of making water, food, plant, and metal creation advanced talents and I'll definitely be enforcing casting traditions. Any other things I'm missing or that might be an issue on Athas?

[AthasianWarlock]

I'm about to finish a 3.5 campaign now. I allowed players to use any races from any settings, but they needed to explain how they were in Athas. I allowed planar travel *to*, but not away from Athas as well. This meant we could focus more on the story without getting all hung up in specifics. We used Athas.org materials, but used psionic transparency.

So far everything has went well. I refluffed most metal items as bone weapons. I never quite got the hang of defiling rules but those are my suggestions.

If you party has casters they can trivialize environment challenges with endure elements as well. My sandstorms didn't do too much to them.

[exelsisxax]

I like the idea of making water, food, plant, and metal creation advanced talents and I'll definitely be enforcing casting traditions. Any other things I'm missing or that might be an issue on Athas?

Yeah. There's psionics everywhere. Are you using Ultimate Psionics as well?

[legomaster00156]

A suggestion for psionics would be to just make them another casting tradition. Everyone gets a single bonus talent to represent a psionic power they were born with (no need to get hung up on specifics of interaction with their other talents). To represent a trained follower of the Way, they just become a caster with the relevant tradition.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

OP said they're using DSP psionics already, and Dark Sun always had it as a separate system.

I agree that mandatory custom Traditions is the way to go for magic

[SangoProduction]

Yeah. If you want to have a "nuclear defiling" take the Terrain Casting drawback, and crank it up, and force everyone to use it.
You don't have to deal with the at-will stuff, as it poses too high a cost (unless they simply don't give a flap about the place they're at).

[SwordChucks]

Yeah. There's psionics everywhere. Are you using Ultimate Psionics as well?

I was planning on using Psionics Unleashed because I've already read through it, and I feel that the four classes included fit the setting better than the later classes.

By keeping magic and psionics seperate I hope to make it easier on myself and I have a feeling that none of my players are actually going to pick a psionic class based on previous choices.

[legomaster00156]

I would have two separate casting traditions, one for Preservers and one for Defilers. At any time, a Preserver can choose to become a Defiler, but it's harder to go back.

Nevermind, the Terrain Casting drawback (turned up to 11) works perfectly for this. I would, however, suggest waiting until Ultimate Spheres of Power is released, as it is set to change a few rules.

[SwordChucks]

I would, however, suggest waiting until Ultimate Spheres of Power is released, as it is set to change a few rules.

Is there an ETA for the release? I haven't been keeping up recently.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm not sure when its being released but its massively changing how Magic Traditions work and making them more similar to Spheres of Might traditions/drawbacks.

[SangoProduction]

I wouldn't wait. It's functional as it is.

[legomaster00156]

Expected launch is September.