Which builds profit the most from the Lucky trait (or feat)

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

if you wanted to make the most of a halfling's Lucky reroll trait - which class or build would you chose? What about other luck related stuff, namely the Lucky feat?

(I must admit I am still kinda bummed that there is no interaction with sorcerer wild magic :smallbiggrin: )

Cheers

Wasp

[J-H]

Anything that makes lots of attack rolls can benefit. Fighter, Warlock, Barbarian (x2 from frequent Advantage), etc. The more rolls you make, the more chances you have to reroll a 1 into something that hits.

[Misterwhisper]

archers who do not have crossbow expert.

Disadvantage from being inmelee just became super advantage 3 times.

Shadow monks, disadvantage from your own darkness just became super advantage. Although monks need stats more than anyone so not likely to take it.

Anyone who has disadvantage while doing something important.

The feat is amazing.

[bid]

Note that the number of rolls has no impact on the "value" of halfling's lucky. Believing otherwise shows a lack of understanding of statistics.


Now if you only miss on 1-2, lucky "saves" half your misses. This means archery fighting style is good while GWM/SS is bad (well, SS is so good that "bad" becomes "less good", but hey!).

Rogues with advantage will roll as many dice as most extra attack martial, so lucky doesn't help you do more damage. OTOH, rerolling 1s makes it less likely you'll have to use your BA on TWF, so that's that.

But I don't see anything other than maximizing how often your misses are 1s by minimizing which other die faces are misses/failures.

[Yormungand]

Rogues are also some of the better ussers of it, since you can turn a miss into a 1HKO, specially assassins.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I will say a heavy armored guy for the lucky feat


The only thing that was able to hit my AC21 lv7 paladin/hex was a crit(most of the enemies can only hit on a crit when he was casting shield).


For the lucky trait I will say it is very good for stuff you have disadvantage to use. It is good for everyone.

[Greywander]

Disadvantage from being inmelee just became super advantage 3 times.
[...]
The feat is amazing.

I will say a heavy armored guy for the lucky feat
Just to be clear, the OP is talking about the halfling racial feature that lets them reroll 1s, not the Lucky feat, which happens to have the same name.

One thing that comes immediately to mind is the fact that a 1 on an attack roll is an automatic miss. I've done some research on how to boost your AC as high as possible, to the point where you can only be hit on a 20. In these cases, imposing disadvantage on attacks against you means that the odds of being hit go from 5% (1 in 20) to 0.25% (1 in 400). Something like the Lucky feat synergizes well here, as on the rare occasion you do get hit, you can reroll the attack. With those odds, you're not likely to get hit more than 3 times in the same day. In the case of your own attacks synergizing with the Lucky racial feature, I don't know that it's possible to stack enough attack bonuses such that you only ever miss on a 1, but if you could, then it would mean you would basically never miss. In fact, in this case, it's even better than the feat, since you can reroll 1s an infinite number of times instead of just three times per long rest.

In general, I suppose, any time where you can only fail on a 1, the Lucky racial feature makes it almost impossible to fail. So, for example, something like a monk (Diamond Soul) or paladin (Aura of Protection) could have even more amazing saving throws. Basically, any build that allows you to stack lots of bonuses onto one thing, but not so much that failure is already impossible. Lucky is kind of like having a a flat +1 to all rolls, as the reroll means you're basically rolling a value from 2 to 20 instead of 1 to 20, except on the rare occasion you roll two 1s in a row.

I suppose another build option would be any build that makes lots of rolls. Fighters, for example, make a lot of attack rolls, as do EB warlocks. Again, because you can use it an unlimited number of times, unlike the Lucky feat, you can get more value out of it by rolling more often. This includes rolls with disadvantage, as you're more likely to roll 1s when you have disadvantage.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Just to be clear, the OP is talking about the halfling racial feature that lets them reroll 1s, not the Lucky feat, which happens to have the same name.

One thing that comes immediately to mind is the fact that a 1 on an attack roll is an automatic miss. I've done some research on how to boost your AC as high as possible, to the point where you can only be hit on a 20. In these cases, imposing disadvantage on attacks against you means that the odds of being hit go from 5% (1 in 20) to 0.25% (1 in 400). Something like the Lucky feat synergizes well here, as on the rare occasion you do get hit, you can reroll the attack. With those odds, you're not likely to get hit more than 3 times in the same day. In the case of your own attacks synergizing with the Lucky racial feature, I don't know that it's possible to stack enough attack bonuses such that you only ever miss on a 1, but if you could, then it would mean you would basically never miss. In fact, in this case, it's even better than the feat, since you can reroll 1s an infinite number of times instead of just three times per long rest.

In general, I suppose, any time where you can only fail on a 1, the Lucky racial feature makes it almost impossible to fail. So, for example, something like a monk (Diamond Soul) or paladin (Aura of Protection) could have even more amazing saving throws. Basically, any build that allows you to stack lots of bonuses onto one thing, but not so much that failure is already impossible. Lucky is kind of like having a a flat +1 to all rolls, as the reroll means you're basically rolling a value from 2 to 20 instead of 1 to 20, except on the rare occasion you roll two 1s in a row.

I suppose another build option would be any build that makes lots of rolls. Fighters, for example, make a lot of attack rolls, as do EB warlocks. Again, because you can use it an unlimited number of times, unlike the Lucky feat, you can get more value out of it by rolling more often. This includes rolls with disadvantage, as you're more likely to roll 1s when you have disadvantage.
He ask in the OP on the feat and other luck related stuff.

BTW, I wont use the XGtE feat Bountiful Luck as it blocks you from your lucky trait.

[Greywander]

He ask in the OP on the feat and other luck related stuff.
Let no one say I never had any talents. After all, I managed to write that entire post with my entire foot firmly in my mouth. Pardon me while I remove it.

[Makorel]

I once made a Warlock 2/Sorcerer 4 Halfling that would spam Eldritch Blast and Quickened Eldritch Blast. I honestly wasn't satisfied with it; not a lot of sorcerer points to do quickens with at that level and it hurt all the more when the shots missed (I really hate missing). I think for my next Sorlock I would do Elven Accuracy shenanigans with Darkness or Archfey Fairie Fire just so I could make sure I hit something. As for Halfling builds, my eyes are on doing a Crossbow Expert Fighter these days. 3 attacks is almost as many as 4 and they're all at will, plus it means I'll get to play a grizzled, tough as nails war veteran who's 2 feet tall and sounds like a small child.

Monks are also neat. I played a Shadow Monk Halfling for a oneshot and the synergy was pretty good with the four attacks, the Halfling Nimbleness with the increased speed and the access to Darkvision. I heard Open Hand is also good for being able to knock down big guys despite being small.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Let no one say I never had any talents. After all, I managed to write that entire post with my entire foot firmly in my mouth. Pardon me while I remove it.

First, you have a great sense of humor.

Second, you did give us all very good information.

Thrid, why wasn't it in blue text?

[Corran]

I think that rogues, and particularly assassins, profit the most from the lucky feat. Lucky helps everyone with their saves, but as skill checks go, rogues are the ones that would need the safety net from some lucky rerolls the most, as rogues tend to rely on their skills for doing some important yet risky stuff. Such as disarming traps, picking pockets, scouting stealthily ahead of the group trying to notice threats, etc. And as for attacks, rogues profit the most too from a feat like lucky, and that is because of sneak attack. Lucky affects a single attack, and a rogue has the strongest single attack. Assassins in particular, because in order to assassinate, you need to succeed in a skill check usually (stealth or deception most likely), then you need to win initiative, and then you need to hit. You will have good chances at winning these contests, but there are 3 of them, and you need to win all 3 of them for it to work. So, one unlucky roll and it all goes to waste. Lucky is great at helping you avoid this happening.

The halfling lucky trait is probably best for crit fishing builds? I dunno.

[BarneyBent]

Note that the number of rolls has no impact on the "value" of halfling's lucky. Believing otherwise shows a lack of understanding of statistics.


Now if you only miss on 1-2, lucky "saves" half your misses. This means archery fighting style is good while GWM/SS is bad (well, SS is so good that "bad" becomes "less good", but hey!).

Rogues with advantage will roll as many dice as most extra attack martial, so lucky doesn't help you do more damage. OTOH, rerolling 1s makes it less likely you'll have to use your BA on TWF, so that's that.

But I don't see anything other than maximizing how often your misses are 1s by minimizing which other die faces are misses/failures.

I’m not sure where you’re getting that it’s a misunderstanding of statistics.

Say a player rolls 400 d20s over the course of a campaign. Statistically 20 of those will be Nat 1s that get a re-roll, changing their value from 1 to effectively 10.5 (on average). Now take another character that rolls twice as many d20s, they’ll re-roll 40 Nat 1s, making them effectively 10.5. That’s double the benefit.

Now, if you’re, for example, a Rogue whose attacks are worth more, then it’s probably balanced in relation to that. But a caster who mostly relies on enemies failing saving throws? Yes it absolutely makes a difference.

It’s probably best phrased not so much in terms of how many d20s you roll, but the reliance on d20 rolls as compared to saving throws.

It also gets more complicated when you have the opportunity to add more damage on a hit, but in a resource constrained sort of way. So making more Attack rolls at fewer base damage, but having the ability once you’ve secured a hit to lay more damage on, I think messes with the value in ways that are non-linear and very complicated but yeah. Also laying on other effects (like Stunning Strike) I think works in a non-linear fashion.

So as a feature it’s most useful on an Attack roll and/or skill-heavy (e.g. face), and that can add rider effects (e.g. smites, stunning strikes) unlimited times per turn but can choose to do so once you know you’ve hit.

[bid]

I’m not sure where you’re getting that it’s a misunderstanding of statistics.
Halfling lucky has the same impact on DPR. It doesn't matter if you are a fighter doing 4x10 damage or a rogue doing 1x40 damage.

So, saying a fighter will gain more is just plain wrong.


As for the non-linearity of stunning strike, it comes down to maximizing how many misses are 1s. If you only miss on 1s, lucky will be used on every miss. If you miss half the time, misses won't be rerolled 9 out of 10 times.

[BarneyBent]

Halfling lucky has the same impact on DPR. It doesn't matter if you are a fighter doing 4x10 damage or a rogue doing 1x40 damage.

So, saying a fighter will gain more is just plain wrong.

Yes, but compared to a caster who does more damage through saving throw effects it makes a big difference. A fighter gains more from Lucky than a Cleric.

Also, it’s not just DPR - it reduces swinginess in a many-attack build which some consider valuable, especially since it translates to more efficient distribution of damage. A Rogue turning a miss into a 40 damage hit on an enemy with 10 HP remaining is less valuable than a monk turning 4 misses into 4 10 HP hits, one of which is against that 10 HP opponent and the rest against other enemies.

I realised I had the rules for how Advantage and Lucky interact wrong though so I’m amending that part of the post.



As for the non-linearity of stunning strike, it comes down to maximizing how many misses are 1s. If you only miss on 1s, lucky will be used on every miss. If you miss half the time, misses won't be rerolled 9 out of 10 times.

That only effects the size of the benefit, not whether the benefit exists.

[GlenSmash!]

I think someone who makes very few rolls, but for big effect would get a lot out of it.

For example a fighter may not bother with lucky if they are just going to attack again on the same turn, but ranged rogue missing any sneak attack damage on a turn will want another shot.