most People in my school can't spell simple words.

[Dean Fellithor]

Have you ever had the feeling that your the only smart kid in your class?

Well for me thats not too far from the truth, I have some students in my class that fail to spell simple words like "Yellow" or "Colour/Color", so I find my self constantly questioning? Have I gone to the right school? Is sitting in a class of idiots worth all the criticism about being smart? or overweight? or for having hair "as long as a girls"? Every single day I find myself sitting with my small group of friends having Pears, Oranges and Apples thrown at me just because my group have better things to do than waste our lives on sport?

Is it really a sin that I chose Drama over HPE? Theater sports over Rugby? History over Chemistry?

What I also find revolting is that not one teacher has chosen to send their students to a special aid class because of these Illiterate students, its disgraceful that I have to sit in a class of students that deliberately sit behind you and mess up your hair (I had glue put in my Hair yesterday), and put a whole arrangement of nasty things on my back.

I am sick and tired of these people Playground, what should I do?

~ Dean Fellithor

P.S. I wouldn't come here and tell you all about this if the Teachers were not noticing all this, seriously: these teachers do not give a damn that I am going through hell and not reaching it through the center circle.

[Saithis Bladewing]

I have that feeling every day of my life. Except without the mockery, because for some reason everybody likes me and wants to be my friend.

[Artemician]

You should be thankful that you're not the only dumb person in your class. Trust me, it's much, much worse.

Being ostracized because of smartness is nowhere near as horrible as being peer-pressurized to succeed, or risk being the odd one out.

Theatre Sports? Oh sure, you can go for it, but only if you're good enough to be better than all those other students who want to go for it. You got an A for history? Good for you! But so did everyone else. We demand A+! Accelerated studies? What do you need them for? You ARE doing accelerated studies, what we call Accelerated studies is really Accel-Accelerated studies.

[Dean Fellithor]

You should be thankful that you're not the only dumb person in your class. Trust me, it's much, much worse.

Being ostracized because of smartness is nowhere near as horrible as being peer-pressurized to succeed, or risk being the odd one out.

Theatre Sports? Oh sure, you can go for it, but only if you're good enough to be better than all those other students who want to go for it. You got an A for history? Good for you! But so did everyone else. We demand A+! Accelerated studies? What do you need them for? You ARE doing accelerated studies, what we call Accelerated studies is really Accel-Accelerated studies.

The Average grade in my school is D+... I'm getting B's...

[Artemician]

the Average grade in my school is D+... I'm getting B's...

After rereading through my post, it appears as if it is horribly confusing, and may give you the wrong impression. In fact, I think it did.

I was satirizing my school life, which is the exact opposite of yours. I too get Bs.. but the difference that the average grade in my school is A+. I feel that it is horribly pressurizing, much worse than having students worse than you in my class.

Apologies for the mix-up. I need to learn how to write more clearly.. maybe this is why I'm failing History.

[Zerkai]

When the teacher isn't looking, slam your textbook into the head of the first person to look at you funny. If he tries to get up, hit him again. That's worked well for me in the past.

[Dean Fellithor]

When the teacher isn't looking, slam your textbook into the head of the first person to look at you funny. If he tries to get up, hit him again. That's worked well for me in the past.

I pushed one guy into a whole lot of garbage bins because he was following me while I was walking home... I almost lift him up and put him IN the bin...

[The Orange Zergling]

In fourth grade, a classmate didn't know what "Progression" meant.
In fifth grade, a classmate still couldn't spell "Weapon". It isn't "Wepin", dude...

I think average grade in my school was around B-... I got all Bs and As. I would have gotten a C in PE all my life but was saved because "I tried". So it was a B-.

[Zerkai]

I pushed one guy into a whole lot of garbage bins because he was following me while I was walking home... I almost lift him up and put him IN the bin...

Nice, but you have to do something in public, where your schoolmates can see. So everyone will be talking about how you knocked some guy out for messing with you. Next time you glare at someone, they'll take a few steps away from you. It's fun. :smallsmile:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Try to see it this way, Dean. Many years down the line, when you are CEO of some monstrously successful company, these same dolts that are taunting you will be part of the night cleaning staff that comes in once the "real" work has been done. :smallwink:

[Artemician]

Nice, but you have to do something in public, where your schoolmates can see. So everyone will be talking about how you knocked some guy out for messing with you. Next time you glare at someone, they'll take a few steps away from you. It's fun. :smallsmile:

No. No. NO!

Violence is never the answer to any sort of problem. I was involved in fights with bullies back when I was in Primary School (Grades 6 and below), and the repercussions were very severe. I got hauled up in front of the Prefect Master, and I had the very real worry that I would be suspended.

Although I have never experienced your sort of serious situation before, I know violence will not resolve it. Having a reputation as a Hooligan does you no good.

[Serpentine]

You know, harrassment is illegal, and it's your teachers' duties to care for you. Keep a diary, secretly record events, obtain witnesses, and generally built up evidence, then take it to the police. If they don't do anything about it - which is really bad - then take it to your Local Trashy Current Affairs Program (whatever your equivalent to our Today Tonight and A Current Affair is). Make it public. Just because it happens in a school doesn't make it any less against the law.

[Dean Fellithor]

You know, harrassment is illegal, and it's your teachers' duties to care for you. Keep a diary, secretly record events, obtain witnesses, and generally built up evidence, then take it to the police. If they don't do anything about it - which is really bad - then take it to your Local Trashy Current Affairs Program (whatever your equivalent to our Today Tonight and A Current Affair is). Make it public. Just because it happens in a school doesn't make it any less against the law.

Yeah...It's Today Tonight and A Current Affair here too, I also live in Australia.

[Serpentine]

Guh, in that case, yes. Build up a case against them. Built it against your teachers. What state, out of curiosity? Cuz I'm sure I've been hearing stuff about how there's supposed to be a "zero-tolerance" policy towards bullying in NSW and teachers have been getting into trouble for ignoring this stuff. I can't understand how people will go through school being physically and emotionally abused, or more to the point how people can assume that that's acceptable behaviour within a schoolyard but gaol-worthy outside of it. For heaven's sake, do something about it!

...*ahem*

[Dean Fellithor]

Guh, in that case, yes. Build up a case against them. Built it against your teachers. What state, out of curiosity? Cuz I'm sure I've been hearing stuff about how there's supposed to be a "zero-tolerance" policy towards bullying in NSW and teachers have been getting into trouble for ignoring this stuff. I can't understand how people will go through school being physically and emotionally abused, or more to the point how people can assume that that's acceptable behaviour within a schoolyard but gaol-worthy outside of it. For heaven's sake, do something about it!

...*ahem*

I live in south-east Queensland, they have a Zero-tolerance for abuse from Teachers but I'm not sure that they have it for Students here...especially in this part of town, another school only a couple of streets away from my own has some students doing Drugs, also my school tends to get into a bit of "Gang Violence" school, also for my age: I know a lot of people that smoke, also just a couple a years ago at a local McDonald's someone was put into a coma after a kid hit him over the head with the sharp side of a Shovel. the Teachers know exactly what is going on but they don't do anything to stop it.

It's funny y'know... I've been suspended before because of a time where a Bully was threatening a friend of mine, I held that guy by the throat and pushed him against a wall, he couldn't hack that someone was actually sticking up to him so he went and told the Vice-Principle: I was suspended for 4 days.

[banjo1985]

Try to see it this way, Dean. Many years down the line, when you are CEO of some monstrously successful company, these same dolts that are taunting you will be part of the night cleaning staff that comes in once the "real" work has been done. :smallwink:

That is most definitely the way to think, though if you've got a fair bit of time left at this school then thast might not be an easy way to think. Honestly, I've been out of school 6 years now. I see the local papers with former classmates being arrested for assault, or collecting my bins while I'm working in the University tech department, and it makes the years of abuse worthwile! :smallbiggrin:

I have to say, your abuse is much worse than anything I ever experienced. I survived high school reasonably unscathed by keeping my head down and there was always a better target for the nasties to go for. I'd say try to deal with it as best you can, and when you finish at the school you'll soon see where you're hard work takes you. :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

You know, I have this vague feeling that I was bullied a lot more than I remember, but I was always so... well, vague, and wrapped in my little bubble of "I don't want to know what's going on" that I kinda missed it. I never saw, much less experienced, any real physical abuse, though. On the other hand, from what I've heard at uni, my school was about the only one on the east coast that's actually improving.

[Charity]

It is all a bit depressing, but I would say that a goodly percentage of the folk here have suffered through this sort of crap at one stage or another.

There is an upside though, school ends.
Thats it, you don't have to put up with that sort of thing in the outside world, it just doesn't happen, it's a school thing, ugly but short lived in the grand scheme of things.

Those halfwits will all fade into the background.

[Cubey]

Laying low and hoping for school to pass (eventually) is not the way for a human being who knows their worth to act.

Have you ever been physically assaulted by the bullies? If so, then the teachers are hypocrites, not seeing the other guys' wrongdoings but turning a welcome ear when they hear about yours. Talk to the higher-ups - the principal maybe? If it won't work, call non-school authorities. If it still won't work, change school.

If they never physically harmed you though, only used harassment techniques - pay them back in similar ways. There are effective ways for vengeance without resorting to more physical aspects of violence.

Finally, I repeat - whatever you choose to do, do something. Don't lay low, even if in 15 years you will be a CEO while the jerks will be working at McDonald's. You are a worthy human being (and from my point of view, you have the moral superiority here, which makes you MORE human then the bullies), you do not have to put up with this.

"Anyone who clings to the historically untrue - and thoroughly immoral - doctrine that 'violence never solves anything' I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The Ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more disputes in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
Robert A. Heinlein

[Charity]

Robert Heinlein whilst a fine writer is a dubious person to quote regarding moral high ground. Nelson Mandela and Ghandi are counterpoints to the thrust of your argument, and I hesitate to stray too deeply into this debate.
We are talking about one guy, whom is very unlikely to end up enslaved.

Yes you can spend the rest of your school life fighting a war that you don't enjoy and they do... that doesn't sound a lot like you winning though.
I'm not suggesting you just invite folk to mess with you, but it is very easy for these guys to suggest fighting for the moral high ground when it's you that takes the licks.

Outwit them, thats your strongpoint use it.

[Dean Fellithor]

Robert Heinlein whilst a fine writer is a dubious person to quote regarding moral high ground. Nelson Mandela and Ghandi are counterpoints to the thrust of your argument, and I hesitate to stray too deeply into this debate.
We are talking about one guy, whom is very unlikely to end up enslaved.

Yes you can spend the rest of your school life fighting a war that you don't enjoy and they do... that doesn't sound a lot like you winning though.
I'm not suggesting you just invite folk to mess with you, but it is very easy for these guys to suggest fighting for the moral high ground when it's you that takes the licks.

Outwit them, thats your strong point use it.

if you have ever Played Bully and taken full not of everything Russel says:

"Words: Bad, Pounding: Good"

if I try and outwit them they will be like:

:confused: "Oh don't get all technical on me you geek!" :furious:

then we can then convert these guys to Orks (Warhammer 40k) , "They only Respect Strength."

[Cubey]

That quote was just an attempt to make me look more educated. I am aware that Heinlein is definitely not a moral authority.
However, neither did I encourage use of violence. As the OP has already shown, violence as a tool didn't end up too well for him (4 days of suspension). This is why you have to be more subtle - find other ways to bite back, less physically violent but still effective enough to show that you are NOT to be messed with. Perhaps do things in the same way they do to you, only tailored on your targets.

Fighting with violence makes you a bully, but not doing anything in return makes you a wimp and only encourages further picking on - unless you are really good at being an uncaring stoic. If that is the case, feel free to ignore them.

[blademaster42]

Actually, I've found that going and telling people about the problem, as a rule, does not work. I'd advise the duck down approach. And I hate to say it dude, but...

You should probably cut your hair. I'm not saying long hair is gay. It's not. I think long hair is cool, but I had my hair long for more than half of a year, and I took so much s*** for it that I realized it wasn't worth it. That and it's a bit of a nuisance. My hair has a slight curl to it, so it tangled itself fairly often. Like, once every five minutes:smallyuk:

But I digress. Use smaller words with these idiots. They may feel like you're talking down to them with your "geek talk", and are embarassed that you're so much smarter than they are. It would explain why they're lashing out at you. try helping them in class.

I know this won't work right away if you try it, so give it some time. And I know what I'm talking about. I've had to deal with one bunch of idiots or another all my life.

[Cubey]

Conformism is bad. It's one of the most crippling movements known to the mankind, stifling any originality and unorthodox points of view.
Do not be a conformist. Do not cut your hair only because others tell you to. Do not let others insult you, harass you or stomp on your dignity.

That is all.

[Dean Fellithor]

Conformism is bad. It's one of the most crippling movements known to the mankind, stifling any originality and unorthodox points of view.
Do not be a conformist. Do not cut your hair only because others tell you to. Do not let others insult you, harass you or stomp on your dignity.

That is all.

it doesn't matter if I cut my Hair it'll be back to its normal length in 3 months.:biggrin:

[Morty]

I know you pain. All my life, I've been picked on because I was quiet, calm and didn't enjoy the same things as others in my schoold- by which I mean idiotical laughing at everything and everyone I don't understand and generally acting like complete mental retard while thinking it's funny. I was never into sports or social interactions, and most people I've met took that as justification to push me around and treat like crap.
Of course, I don't have any advise for you, because the most basic fact is that dumber, louder people who stick together win. And the dumber, louder jackass you are, the more everyone around you admire you.

[Ink]

You definitely shouldn't have to put up with being bullied and abused. Tell the teachers, tell the principal. Keep telling them. If they don't do anything, like Serpentine said, get the police and media involved. But about being smarter than everyone else, if you go around acting like you think you're smarter than everyone else, you're not going to do yourself any favours, especially in this school. I feel that people who really are the smartest don't have to act like it.

Don't try and use your big technical words with these kids, but don't talk to them in a dumbed-down, condescending manner either. I guess it would be best if you avoid them wherever possible. Don't run away or cower from them or anything like that, but just keep your interaction with them on a need-to basis. I agree with the others that violence isn't the answer. You don't want to fight their war with them.

Take the pears, oranges, and apples that are thrown at you and make a fruit smoothie. :smallsmile:

[Catch]

have you ever had the feeling that your the only smart kid in your class?

Um, I don't want to be rude--really, I don't--but do you know how many spelling and grammar errors you made in your first post? Before you start talking about how you're the smartest kid in town and that everyone else is a shmuck, I'd suggest looking after your own conventions.

People will also be more accepting of your intelligence if you don't tell them about it all the time, something I know from experience. Also, kids get older and stop being jerks. Mostly.

[Dean Fellithor]

[spoiler]

Um, I don't want to be rude--really, I don't--but do you know how many spelling and grammar errors you made in your first post? Before you start talking about how you're the smartest kid in town and that everyone else is a shmuck, I'd suggest looking after your own conventions.

People will also be more accepting of your intelligence if you don't tell them about it all the time, something I know from experience. Also, kids get older and stop being jerks. Mostly.

I did a spell check and found no spelling mistakes and at least (compared to these other students at my school) I have Grammar.

[StickMan]

Well I would like to point out that making a generalization that people who can not spell well, are not intelligent may be insulting to people on this board such as myself who do not spell well. I have horrid spelling and yet have a Hight IQ and my lowest grade in college has been a B. Just because some one can not spell well does not mean they are unintelligent.

Now other than that I feel your pain. I'm not sure what grade your in but sounds a lot like what I went through back in middle school. Best thing to do is just ignore them honestly, unless they attack you physically. Fighting back will never help and mostly just give them more fuel. When I got to high school things got a lot better for me, one my high school was to big for people to target me and two I got a lot bigger than the guys who bullied me and three when you have 2 plus rows of geeks playing Magic with you at lunch you out number the other guys.

Just learn to laugh at the people you know your smarter than cause trust me they follow you to college. You will often ask your self how the heck do you not fail out, or even worse how do you have same grade as me. I go to The Ohio State University, top public school in Ohio and one of the top public schools in the nation and I still have this issue.

[STupendous]

Yeah, I noticed a lot of people don't use proper grammar, capitalization, punctuation, or spelling. :smallwink: And I'm homeschooled, so I always think I'm the smartest in my class. :smallbiggrin:

[StupidFatHobbit]

Sorry dude, but Catch was right. Spellcheck doesn't tell you that all your words are correct in the context you used them. It just tells you that all the words you used are real English words.

Due ewe see what eye mien? (Right there, all genuine English words and correctly spelled, but four out of six are still wrong and would make you look illiterate if you wrote that sentence without irony.)

I don't mean to turn this into a "let's all tell the OP he's the one in the wrong" thing. Bullying is totally unacceptable. Apart from that, though, try to remember these important things:

1. School is temporary.
2. You will ALWAYS, and I mean always, need to deal with people who are a lot dumber than you and people who are a lot smarter than you. Learning to do both is a major part of growing up.
3. School is temporary. (It's worth repeating, because at your age school has been the vast majority of your conscious lifetime, but trust me on this, it is NOT a very good example of the real world and life gets a lot better later on.)

[Dean Fellithor]

Sorry dude, but Catch was right. Spellcheck doesn't tell you that all your words are correct in the context you used them. It just tells you that all the words you used are real English words.

Due ewe see what eye mien? (Right there, all genuine English words and correctly spelled, but four out of six are still wrong and would make you look illiterate if you wrote that sentence without irony.)

I don't mean to turn this into a "let's all tell the OP he's the one in the wrong" thing. Bullying is totally unacceptable. Apart from that, though, try to remember these important things:

1. School is temporary.
2. You will ALWAYS, and I mean always, need to deal with people who are a lot dumber than you and people who are a lot smarter than you. Learning to do both is a major part of growing up.
3. School is temporary. (It's worth repeating, because at your age school has been the vast majority of your conscious lifetime, but trust me on this, it is NOT a very good example of the real world and life gets a lot better later on.)

Does it matter if I've only had 12 hours of sleep in the last 3 days? I havent been able to focus on my PC screen let alone my keyboard today.

[Crow]

{Scrubbed}

[Serpentine]

[Scrubbed]
Well gee. Thanks, Crow. I really, really appreciate being called an idiot. Ta. Gee wiz, thanks a bunch. :smallannoyed: Of course, by failing to bring it to the attention of the system that its components are failing to do their jobs, namely, see to the health and wellbeing of children that have been entrusted into their care, you're just perpetuating its presence within the system. But what would I know, I'm just a plain ol' idiot.

[Artemician]

[Scrubbed]

Just taking the statement to its logical conclusion...


Well gee. Thanks, Crow. I really, really appreciate being called an idiot. Ta. Gee wiz, thanks a bunch. :smallannoyed: Of course, by failing to bring it to the attention of the system that its components are failing to do their jobs, namely, see to the health and wellbeing of children that have been entrusted into their care, you're just perpetuating its presence within the system. But what would I know, I'm just a plain ol' idiot.

Violence may not be the answer, but frankly, I don't think making personal insults is it, either.

[banjo1985]

[Scrubbed]


This could work is some circumstances, but only if you've got the physical brawn and capacity to back it up. It's no good hitting someone who's 6 inches taller and 30 kilo's heavier than you, because they're just gonna laugh and pound you into the ground even harder. It also sets a disturbing precedent and you don't want to be caught in a cycle of violence. I also don't agree with getting teachers and cops involved, if anything it makes you more of a target, and it's fairly clear that the teachers don't seem to care. If it's at all possible for you to survive by ignoring it and just getting out untill college, then for me that's the way to go.

Just a little heads up Crow, I don't mind being labelled an idiot, but some people on the board might, it might be worth editting that out before someone gets grouchy :smallwink: {Sheriff of Moddingham: It also it violates the Rules of Posting.}

EDIT - Ah too late by the looks of things

[Dispozition]

Does it matter if I've only had 12 hours of sleep in the last 3 days? I havent been able to focus on my PC screen let alone my keyboard today.

May I just point out that I've had about 20 hours sleep in the last 120 hours...Good day sir...

[Scrubbed]

Have you ever been bullied? And I mean properly bullied. I have, by at least 100 kids, from my year level and those above mine. I have had 1 and a half years of school without having a single friend I could talk to. Ok? Now...Violence DOES NOT HELP!! I threw a desk at someone, yeah? I hit them, it didn't help. Made it worse. I stabbed someone in the hand with a pencil, didn't help, hell made it even worse than before, again...

Violence = bad!!!

The only way things got better, and I'm being totally serious, was when I actually talked to the principal and teachers. They helped.

[Scrubbed]

Thank you, I doubt you'll see me in this thread again.

[wxdruid]

As a now middle aged type person (yes, it's true), I suffered through quite a bit of harrassement in Elementary School all the way through High School. I suffered, I didn't fight back, I don't like confrontations. I survived, I went to college, got a degree, joined the military...

I do know that the guy who held a knife to my throat at the bus stop is now a criminal, (although I'm sure he was then to). But in all reality? I really don't care where those people ended up. My life is mine, I decided what to do with it.

Harrassement is NOT fun and there are ways to deal with it. My method was to learn to ignore it. Yes, I ended up with spit and sunflower seeds in my hair, yes, my locker was broken into and everything taken, yes, I had someone jab a pencil into my leg, yes, I had people following me/chasing me around the school yard. The list could go on, but in the end I survived and I no longer have to deal with them. Such idiocy eventually ends. Everyone deals with stuff like that in their own way. If you don't like the way you're dealing with it now? Find a way that suits you. Take or don't take the advice given here. In the end everything moves on, changes and sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

[Ink]

^ A knife to your throat? That is beyond harrassment, that's assault and a crime.

Idiots? :smallconfused:

The point is that you shouldn't have to fight these battles in school. School should be a place for education and growth, and everyone who goes there should be able learn in peace, not just the ones who are tough enough to brawl it out in the playground. If the school is not fulfilling its purpose the authorities should be made to know and do something about it instead of letting it continue as survival of the fittest among the students. Violence would just lower you down to their level. Advocating punching another kid in the groin is reprehensible. But Crow is right about one thing in that I've never been to prison.

[Serpentine]

Violence may not be the answer, but frankly, I don't think making personal insults is it, either.
I was making personal insults? :smallconfused: I was getting snarky, and admittedly should have just reported it (thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and await an apology first), but I didn't meant to be insulting. If I was, I apologise.


I do know that the guy who held a knife to my throat at the bus stop is now a criminal, (although I'm sure he was then to). But in all reality? I really don't care where those people ended up. My life is mine, I decided what to do with it.

Harrassement is NOT fun and there are ways to deal with it. My method was to learn to ignore it. Yes, I ended up with spit and sunflower seeds in my hair, yes, my locker was broken into and everything taken, yes, I had someone jab a pencil into my leg, yes, I had people following me/chasing me around the school yard. The list could go on, but in the end I survived and I no longer have to deal with them. Such idiocy eventually ends. Everyone deals with stuff like that in their own way. If you don't like the way you're dealing with it now? Find a way that suits you. Take or don't take the advice given here. In the end everything moves on, changes and sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.
See, this is what I was talking about. It isn't just idiocy, it's criminal assault and harrassment. If this happened outside of school you wouldn't hesitate to go to the police. So why is it so less serious when it just happens to occur in a school?

[Crow]

This could well work, but only if you've got the physical brawn and capacity to back it up. It's no good hitting someone who's 6inches taller and 30 kilo's heavier than you, because they're just gonna laugh and pound you into the ground even harder. I also don't agree with getting teachers and cops involved, if anything it makes you more of a target, and it's fairly clear that the teachers don't seem to care.

Just a little heads up Crow, I don't mind being labelled an idiot, but some people on the board might, it might be worth editting that out before someone gets grouchy :smallwink:

EDIT - Ah too late by the looks of things

Actually, you don't need to be strong enough to kick this guy's butt. In the majority of cases like this, the victim is being picked on because they (rightfully or wrongfully) are seen as an easy target.

It doesn't matter if you "can't take" the guy. You need to make it enough of a hassle that it just isn't worth it. I won't BS. You may end up getting your butt kicked. But if you can bloody his nose...and bloody it again every time he comes after you for an "easy score", he'll eventually stop coming because it just isn't worth it. The people doing this to you right now will find an easier target. It's just a matter of giving them a little negative reinforcement.

Serpentine:

I apologize for calling a bunch of people idiots. But taking this to the authorities or the headmaster is not going to fix anything for this guy. At least not for more than a temporary stint. The OP is going through a time in his life when he is learning to become a man. Granted for him, it sounds like a pretty rough time too. He needs to stand up for himself, and by not doing so, he is setting the tone for his entire life. This situation may well be the model by which future difficulties in his life are dealt with. Now before you jump all over that statement, I am not advocating dealing with all of a person's problems with violence. I am advocating standing on his own two feet and doing what needs to be done. There are times in life when nobody is around to bail you out of a jam. Whether the situation calls for physical, mental, or emotional fortitude, he needs to have the capability of dealing with it himself.

[wxdruid]

School should be a place of learning, but you know what? It's not always so. My father was a school teacher for 35+ years, he was lucky...

Near the end they opened a student's locker and his name was on a list of people this particular student hated.

I may have put myself in harms way by going to Iraq, but my father did the same thing being a school teacher.

[Mr Croup]

[Scrubbed]

One, can you please knock off the name calling, it certainly isn't productive.

Two, I will say that taking this issue to the police is probably a step to far, unless there is some serious escalation.

Personally, I don't think that violence is the right answer. For starters, it'll likely just result in the OP getting into trouble as he did the previous time he resorted to violence. Also, it could just serve to escalate matters further, which could end very badly.

To the OP, have you actively spoken with your teachers about the problems? If not, then you should. When directly confronted with the problems your having, they may in fact act. If for some reason they don't, take your grievance further up the chain. Talk to the principal or headmaster.

In the mean time, you do need to stand up for yourself. Don't let these other kids see that it's bothering you. Bullies typically prey on those they perceive as weaker, on those that they can get a rise out of. Don't give them the satisfaction. Let them see that this childish behavior is beneath you.

And as many people have said, this will pass. This behavior doesn't fly outside of school years, typically people mature beyond it. Whether you go on to be some corporate exec or not, it won't be long before this sort of thing isn't an issue.

As an aside, for those that have made statements along the lines of "when you're a CEO doing the "real" work and these guys are working as janitors" and what not, lay off it please. Firstly, just because someone is doing physical labor or working a menial job doesn't mean they are any less intelligent or should be looked down upon. While I work in a corporate environment now, I've worked with some brilliant people whose jobs included emptying out bins and what have you, or who had medical degrees but spent their days hauling heavy loads and working long hours down in the dirt.

The notion that because someone performs manual labor for their living, then they must be less intelligent, or somehow that those that hold a cushier job, or more formal education are superior to them is a fallacy, and doesn't do anybody any good. I'm sure that that no one meant any harm by their statements, but it's just one of those things that irks me, and I had to write something or I'd have a chip on my shoulder the whole day.

[Tom_Violence]

I wanted to go through the entire first post with a red pen. If you're going to complain about how bad people's language skills are, at least capitalise your subject properly, for goodness sake! Blurting something along the lines of "im waaay smrtar then most" does not make it so.

And on the bullying subject - don't go 'standing up for yourself' in stupid ways. I know its a nice fantasy that all bullies are really cowards that will back down if you stand up to them, but there are an awful lot of people out there, especially in school, that will want to fight you just for the sake of it. And chances are, they'll have a lot more mates than you. Just the way it is. And whoever made the suggestion that who you are in school determines who you are later on is way out in my opinion. We had bullies at my school. Big nasty "I'm going to meet you outside school whether you like it or not" bullies. People turning up with noticable bruises etc was not uncommon. You don't have to stand up to these people, because likely it will not go well. I know most teenagers feel they have to 'prove themselves' in some ways, but don't be that dumb. I got by fine by not attracting the wrong sort of attention - its easy enough. It doesn't make you a wimp or a sap. It makes you someone who can finish school not ashamed of the big lump in the middle of their face that they used to call a nose.


Actually, you don't need to be strong enough to kick this guy's butt. In the majority of cases like this, the victim is being picked on because they (rightfully or wrongfully) are seen as an easy target.

It doesn't matter if you "can't take" the guy. You need to make it enough of a hassle that it just isn't worth it. I won't BS. You may end up getting your butt kicked. But if you can bloody his nose...and bloody it again every time he comes after you for an "easy score", he'll eventually stop coming because it just isn't worth it. The people doing this to you right now will find an easier target. It's just a matter of giving them a little negative reinforcement.

Serpentine:

I apologize for calling a bunch of people idiots. But taking this to the authorities or the headmaster is not going to fix anything for this guy. At least not for more than a temporary stint. The OP is going through a time in his life when he is learning to become a man. Granted for him, it sounds like a pretty rough time too. He needs to stand up for himself, and by not doing so, he is setting the tone for his entire life. This situation may well be the model by which future difficulties in his life are dealt with. Now before you jump all over that statement, I am not advocating dealing with all of a person's problems with violence. I am advocating standing on his own two feet and doing what needs to be done. There are times in life when nobody is around to bail you out of a jam. Whether the situation calls for physical, mental, or emotional fortitude, he needs to have the capability of dealing with it himself.

Essentially, everything about this post is wrong. Making it 'too much hassle' is tricky when you're on your own against several people. Bullies don't go solo. Oooo, so you bloodied one guy's nose? Think his mates will let you get away with that? Think the guy's not gonna come back, wanting to do even worse things to you now in revenge? Don't kid yourself. No one grows up by swinging punches and getting their head kicked in. Finding another way out of the situation does not mean you're gonna get walked all over for the rest of your life, seriously. When there are people looking to bring violence to you, violence is not the best way to answer back.

Honestly, where on earth does this attitude come from that says 'Once someone hits the age of 18 and leaves school, that person's personality is then set for life, and will never change'? Don't believe it.

[Crow]

And really, how many people turn out to be corporate CEO's anyways? You have a much better chance of being that office manager nobody likes...

[wxdruid]

Oh and one other incident that by now is quite amusing to me.

One girl said meet me outside after school one day, I'll beat you up. I said, when? She set the date and time. I never showed up and she never mentioned it again. Now it's funny, back then? it was serious and yes I was scared. But I had art club that day after school and by the time I came outside she was long gone and yes, I planned to miss the whole affair...

[Serpentine]

I apologize for calling a bunch of people idiots. But taking this to the authorities or the headmaster is not going to fix anything for this guy. At least not for more than a temporary stint. The OP is going through a time in his life when he is learning to become a man. Granted for him, it sounds like a pretty rough time too. He needs to stand up for himself, and by not doing so, he is setting the tone for his entire life. This situation may well be the model by which future difficulties in his life are dealt with. Now before you jump all over that statement, I am not advocating dealing with all of a person's problems with violence. I am advocating standing on his own two feet and doing what needs to be done. There are times in life when nobody is around to bail you out of a jam. Whether the situation calls for physical, mental, or emotional fortitude, he needs to have the capability of dealing with it himself.
And if he happened to be female, what would he do then? Learn to become woman? Not really the same connotations, there... I see this sort of mantra every now and then. All I can think of is that it's just a bunch of macho delusion. Why should he have to deal with it himself? It's one thing to be self-reliant and an entire other thing to be stupid. If you can have help, there's absolutely no reason outside of egotism and machismo not to take it. I agree with mrcroup: there's no reason why you can't take it to the authorities and stand up for yourself in the meantime, without lowering yourself to their thuggish level.

[banjo1985]

As an aside, for those that have made statements along the lines of "when you're a CEO doing the "real" work and these guys are working as janitors" and what not, lay off it please. Firstly, just because someone is doing physical labor or working a menial job doesn't mean they are any less intelligent or should be looked down upon. While I work in a corporate environment now, I've worked with some brilliant people whose jobs included emptying out bins and what have you, or who had medical degrees but spent their days hauling heavy loads and working long hours down in the dirt.

The notion that because someone performs manual labor for their living, then they must be less intelligent, or somehow that those that hold a cushier job, or more formal education are superior to them is a fallacy, and doesn't do anybody any good. I'm sure that that no one meant any harm by their statements, but it's just one of those things that irks me, and I had to write something or I'd have a chip on my shoulder the whole day.

A good point well made. I indeed meant no harm, but retract my previous statement in regards to this. To be honest it was hypocritical of me, two of my best and most intelligent friends do manual labour for a living, and they're great people. Having said that, they have both admitted to being a bit bullyish in high school, which just goes to show you that school often doesn't shape the person you are in later life.

Anyway I digress. My original statement was meant to mean that after school you can get a good job and none of this will matter to you anymore. It was not meant to be a dig at manual workers. Consider the statement retracted. :smallredface:

[CrazedGoblin]

No. No. NO!

Violence is never the answer to any sort of problem. I was involved in fights with bullies back when I was in Primary School (Grades 6 and below), and the repercussions were very severe. I got hauled up in front of the Prefect Master, and I had the very real worry that I would be suspended.

Although I have never experienced your sort of serious situation before, I know violence will not resolve it. Having a reputation as a Hooligan does you no good.

Curses! *puts down the plank of wood with a nail in it* oh well back to work.:smallbiggrin:

[Trog]

Everyone is better than others in their school at something. So you're better at grammar. That's good and you should be proud of that. Others may be better at chemistry. Or rugby. Or any number of things. Does it make them stupid? No.

Putting down everyone else as idiots is going to be the most sure fire way for getting a negative reaction from others at your school. Perhaps your attitude shows? Start treating others with respect and you may just get some yourself.

[Mc. Lovin']

Although I am not the only smart kid in my class (In fact there are a lot of inteligent people at our school, but out of "Boffin Row" (people who sit in the front row) I would label myself as the stupidest), I do travel home with people not in my class who are stupid. For example a person on my bus today thought the square root of 16 was 32, and couldnt spell 'watch'.

[Crow]

And if he happened to be female, what would he do then? Learn to become woman? Not really the same connotations, there... I see this sort of mantra every now and then. All I can think of is that it's just a bunch of macho delusion. I agree with mrcroup: there's no reason why you can't take it to the authorities and stand up for yourself in the meantime, without lowering yourself to their thuggish level.

It makes no difference if he is a man or a woman. The lesson is the same. I used the "become a man" phrase because it is easily understood. Not because I think all men should be horse-punching Mongos. I don't think you really know what a "thug" is.

If you can squeak by and lay low, and get through school that way, this is fine. That is your choice. It's not a choice I would agree with, but that's not my decision. I served two tours in Central and West Africa, and now work in law enforcement. There are real "thugs" everywhere. There will always be somebody out there who is a "thug", and they don't just "go away" or "grow out of it" if you ignore them. I deal with people who just tried to "lay low" almost every single day. It's always the same. Criminals look for easy targets. If you make yourself look like an easy target, you're going to run into trouble. At least look like you can take care of yourself, and you save yourself a load of trouble.

[Serpentine]

I never said anything about laying low. I advocated positive action. Even if it were possible, beating up the bully is just perpetuating the whole stupid culture and not really doing anything in the long run. You can look after yourself without stooping to their level.

[Mr Croup]

And if he happened to be female, what would he do then? Learn to become woman? Not really the same connotations, there... I see this sort of mantra every now and then. All I can think of is that it's just a bunch of macho delusion. I agree with mrcroup: there's no reason why you can't take it to the authorities and stand up for yourself in the meantime, without lowering yourself to their thuggish level.

Thank you. And yes, I'm not a fan of the this is a "trial of manhood" line of thinking either.


A good point well made. I indeed meant no harm, but retract my previous statement in regards to this. To be honest it was hypocritical of me, two of my best and most intelligent friends do manual labour for a living, and they're great people. Having said that, they have both admitted to being a bit bullyish in high school, which just goes to show you that school often doesn't shape the person you are in later life.

Anyway I digress. My original statement was meant to mean that after school you can get a good job and none of this will matter to you anymore. It was not meant to be a dig at manual workers. Consider the statement retracted. :smallredface:

Like I said, I really didn't think any harm was meant, it's just one of those things that gets under my skin because of the all too many people I've met that really feel superior to anyone that gets their hands dirty for a living. Partly because I used to do it as well. My day job has me working in the office of a large commercial design and construction firm, and my time in the field helped drive that thought home for me.


Putting down everyone else as idiots is going to be the most sure fire way for getting a negative reaction from others at your school. Perhaps your attitude shows? Start treating others with respect and you may just get some yourself.

This is a very good point. Just thought it bears being repeated.


I served two tours in Central and West Africa, and now work in law enforcement. There are real "thugs" everywhere. There will always be somebody out there who is a "thug", and they don't just "go away" or "grow out of it" if you ignore them. I deal with people who just tried to "lay low" almost every single day.

I'm curious, as you now work in law enforcement if you would encourage this behavior in your day to day routine. If you happened upon a person that told you (who as an officer of the law are analogous to the principal or teacher, a person who is responsible for the well being and enforcement of rules) that they had been harassed by a group of individuals, if you would encourage them to not seek out the intervention of the authorities, but instead encourage them to enter into a violent altercation with this group?

That reasoning just doesn't seem to stand up, and I can only only assume that you wouldn't suggest such a thing, so why should this situation be any different?

[Ink]

You work in law enforcement, do you think that if a gang of thugs was hanging around outside a person's house harrassing them, that they should call the police, or go outside and punch the gang leader in the face?

[Tom_Violence]

Also, Officer Crow, I wonder how many people ambulance crews have to deal with who tried to 'stand up' to the wrong people. "Snarl at the angry drunk - don't let me harrass you! Look at him scamper off with his tail between his legs! Oh wait, he's just gone to get a bottle..."

[Crow]

Serpentine, I respect your opinion, and I think there are situations where the course of action you suggest would be appropriate, but I just cannot convince myself that this is that situation. It is my opinion that "telling" on his bullies will only net him more ire in the future.

We will just have agree to disagree.

Also, when I spoke of laying low, I was not addressing you personally, but rather the other who had suggested this.

If somebody had a gang of thugs hanging outside their house harassing them, yes I would recommend calling the police. Regardless, I appreciate the skill which you have demonstrated in avoiding my point entirely. So this poor resident calls the police. We can't really get them on any substantial charge, but we get them out of the resident's hair and the situation is resolved. Until we leave.

Almost all of the time, law enforcement doesn't arrive until after the fact. If that same group of thugs confronts you on your way home from the drug store and wants your sneakers, there is no way we can be there in time to rescue your sneakers. Once it has gotten to that point, it is already too late. Part of your personal protection is on you too. Like I said earlier, you only have to look like a hard target and that is sometimes enough. Unfortunately for the OP, he already looks like an easy target, and once you've gained that reputation, it takes a little more effort to shake.

[Crow]

Also, Officer Crow, I wonder how many people ambulance crews have to deal with who tried to 'stand up' to the wrong people. "Snarl at the angry drunk - don't let me harrass you! Look at him scamper off with his tail between his legs! Oh wait, he's just gone to get a bottle..."

Good lord people.

A bully putting glue in somebody's hair is not the same as a guy pulling a knife or gun on you. Stop trying to twist the argument around by claiming these are the same as the OP's situation.

[Serpentine]

It's still a crime. It should still be punishable. And who's to say it won't get worse? A friend of mine had rocks thrown at her. At her head, to make her bleed. But that was at school. It doesn't count.

[Sisqui]

Have you ever had the feeling that your the only smart kid in your class?

Well for me thats not too far from the truth, I have some students in my class that fail to spell simple words like "Yellow" or "Colour/Color", so I find my self constantly questioning? Have I gone to the right school? Is sitting in a class of idiots worth all the criticism about being smart? or overweight? or for having hair "as long as a girls"? Every single day I find myself sitting with my small group of friends having Pears, Oranges and Apples thrown at me just because my group have better things to do than waste our lives on sport?


A little quote you might find more interesting than Heinlein:


"What I want to fix your attention on is the vast overall movement towards the discrediting, and finally the elimination, of every kind of human excellence -- moral, cultural, social or intellectual. And is it not pretty to notice how 'democracy' (in the incantatory sense) is now doing for us the work that was once done by the most ancient dictatorships, and by the same methods? The basic proposal of the new education is to be that dunces and idlers must not be made to feel inferior to intelligent and industrious pupils. That would be 'undemocratic.' Children who are fit to proceed may be artificially kept back, because the others would get a trauma by being left behind. The bright pupil thus remains democratically fettered to his own age group throughout his school career, and a boy who would be capable of tackling Aeschylus or Dante sits listening to his coeval's [of the same age] attempts to spell out A CAT SAT ON A MAT. We may reasonably hope for the virtual abolition of education when 'I'm as good as you' has fully had its way. All incentives to learn and all penalties for not learning will vanish. The few who might want to learn will be prevented; who are they to overtop their fellows? And anyway, the teachers -- or should I say nurses? -- will be far too busy reassuring the dunces and patting them on the back to waste any time on real teaching. We shall no longer have to plan and toil to spread imperturbable conceit and incurable ignorance among men." C. S. Lewis
Also, don't knock sports. Life is not a dress rehearsal- it is the real thing and in it you WILL have to compete, be it for jobs, a promotion, a mate, what have you. One truly great aspect of being in sports is not that it teaches you to win, but that it teaches you how to LOSE. When you've gotten through the "trauma" of not winning, you analyse why you lost and try to apply those lessons in the future so you can win. You learn how to take it on the chin, get back up, and try again. In these days of "But what about the children?!?! What about their SELF ESTEEM?!?!" there are too many people with overinflated and dangerously fragile egos who don't seem to realize that failing once in a while is actually GOOD for you.



Almost all of the time, law enforcement doesn't arrive until after the fact. If that same group of thugs confronts you on your way home from the drug store and wants your sneakers, there is no way we can be there in time to rescue your sneakers. Once it has gotten to that point, it is already too late. Part of your personal protection is on you too. Like I said earlier, you only have to look like a hard target and that is sometimes enough. Unfortunately for the OP, he already looks like an easy target, and once you've gained that reputation, it takes a little more effort to shake.

When I was in EMS we used to say that the cops only show up to ID the bodies. When something goes down, it goes down fast- maybe 30 seconds or so, even if that is the longest (and possibly last) 30 seconds of your life. Even if the cops get there in 2 minutes flat, they'll still be 90 seconds too late for you. Be prepared to take responsibility for your own safety. You have no right to expect a police officer to risk his/her life to save you if you aren't willing to risk it to save yourself.

Just my two cp. Well, no, that was more like 2 sp- I do get long winded sometimes :smallwink:

[Tom_Violence]

Good lord people.

A bully putting glue in somebody's hair is not the same as a guy pulling a knife or gun on you. Stop trying to twist the argument around by claiming these are the same as the OP's situation.

Hey man, I wasn't the one who said "These are the values that people are going to carry with them through into adult life", or some such. Raise people to think that looking like they can handle themselves is just inviting them to do it to someone who will hit them no matter what. And a lot of bullies do a lot worse than just putting glue in people's hair - remember that the OP may well not be the only person reading this and wondering how to deal with bullies.


Also, don't knock sports. Life is not a dress rehearsal- it is the real thing and in it you WILL have to compete, be it for jobs, a promotion, a mate, what have you. One truly great aspect of being in sports is not that it teaches you to win, but that it teaches you how to LOSE. When you've gotten through the "trauma" of not winning, you analyse why you lost and try to apply those lessons in the future so you can win. You learn how to take it on the chin, get back up, and try again. In these days of "But what about the children?!?! What about their SELF ESTEEM?!?!" there are too many people with overinflated and dangerously fragile egos who don't seem to realize that failing once in a while is actually GOOD for you.

And interestingly, a fragile ego does not necessarily mean an inflated one. There are many many people out there with meek personalities that also never learned how to lose well, and I find that much more crippling.

[Crow]

Just a heads up, I have to bail out for a few hours. If anybody is still enraged enough to continue our debate, please PM me if you feel you need to. Otherwise I'll check back on the thread later on.

[Serpentine]

Crow, I just want to point out that we're talking about school children. You are effectively telling school children, "If you have a problem, fight. Harm, and be harmed, or you'll just be made to hurt even more. If you take it to the people whose job it is to take care of you, to protect and nurture you, to keep you safe, you're week. If you put up with it, you're week. Violence is the only way, and you're gonna have to stick by it for the rest of your life."
What sort of thing is that to tell a child?

(Sorry Dean, you are :smalltongue:)

[starwoof]

Hmm, not old enough to grow a beard... Dean, my first plan is thrown out the window.


I used to get picked on a lot back in elementary school. But then I learned something that works. When somebody picks on you, ignore them. Say nothing, maybe stare at them blankly, but don't do anything about it. Usually bullies get bored and walk off when they can't get a reaction out of you. I started doing that in 6th grade and I've gone from 'picked on' to 'admired for his aloofness and humor'. It seems generic but it worked for me. I also had an emotional breakdown in 6th grade and wailed on a bully in the face with a hockey stick... but I really don't recommend any part of that.

Violence shouldn't be the answer.

[CrazedGoblin]

if they call you names, agree with them that shuts them up quick hehe

[Ink]

I agree that a person has the responsibility to look out for their own personal safety. Sensible stuff like not walking around at night with tons of jewellery and cash or whatever the schoolyard equivalent. I agree that you should not act like easy prey. And I agree that should stand up for yourself, which does not mean always use violence.

As you said, putting glue in someone's hair is not assault. So if you turn around and punch the kid in the face for it, it is you who is initiating violence. Who gets suspended from school? You. Why? Because of something that other guy started. And you never know what these bullies are going to do. Lo and behold, this kid has a big brother or a mate who is in a gang, now out to get you for hitting him. Some of these bullies are spoiling for a fight, they're probably hoping that you'll engage them on their battleground, they derive great pleasure from it. If you start it you've lost your claim to being in the right and descended to their level.

Above all, a school is supposed to protect its students. The school authorities need to be made aware of what is going on because that is their responsibility, they need to do it. Students shouldn't have to fight to prove their alpha male dominance in the school playground.

[Sisqui]

And interestingly, a fragile ego does not necessarily mean an inflated one. There are many many people out there with meek personalities that also never learned how to lose well, and I find that much more crippling.

Actually, I was also referring to people who generally are meek and have their teachers and nurses looking out for them all the time, never letting them fail at anything because it might upset them. Essentially, these people stay meek because they are always "spared" that trauma and so never learn to confront it or anything else. I wasn't speaking only of the ones you would easily identify as self assured. Even though these meek people may not look self confident, if they still have an inflated idea of their own capabilities because they are constantly and consistently shielded from failure, then they fit with the group I was talking about. But yes, I agree with you, absolutely.

[Catch]

And interestingly, a fragile ego does not necessarily mean an inflated one. There are many many people out there with meek personalities that also never learned how to lose well, and I find that much more crippling.

I am one. Well, was.

I also happened to suffer from the arrogance that some intelligent-but-socially-awkward kids carry, and I found that, surprise!, the way I acted around others directly affected how they acted towards me. Kids will pick on the geeky smart kids, that's a given, no matter what motive you ascribe. They'll keep picking on the kids that get fussy, arrogant and confrontational about it. The "you're just jealous because I'm smarter than you" is a great way to never make any friends and always have kids harassing you. By far, it's one of the best. Throwing a fit works too and it helps to run off and find a teacher every time someone looks twice at you.

My point is that kids stopped picking on me once I stopped giving them a reason. It's real easy to point and blame everything on the bullies without acknowledging that you're partly responsible for the situation, no matter how fair it is. Being a condescending little prick won't make the jackasses leave you alone, nor will psychoanalyzing them, hiding or having Mom fight your battles. I would know--I tried them all. The only method to make kids stop picking on you is to not to give them a reason. If you don't care, they won't care. Kids may be vicious, stupid and cruel but they're lazy and opportunistic. If there's no fun in picking on you, they won't.

[PlatinumJester]

Have you ever had the feeling that your the only smart kid in your class?

Well for me thats not too far from the truth, I have some students in my class that fail to spell simple words like "Yellow" or "Colour/Color", so I find my self constantly questioning? Have I gone to the right school? Is sitting in a class of idiots worth all the criticism about being smart? or overweight? or for having hair "as long as a girls"? Every single day I find myself sitting with my small group of friends having Pears, Oranges and Apples thrown at me just because my group have better things to do than waste our lives on sport?

Is it really a sin that I chose Drama over HPE? Theater sports over Rugby? History over Chemistry?

What I also find revolting is that not one teacher has chosen to send their students to a special aid class because of these Illiterate students, its disgraceful that I have to sit in a class of students that deliberately sit behind you and mess up your hair (I had glue put in my Hair yesterday), and put a whole arrangement of nasty things on my back.

I am sick and tired of these people Playground, what should I do?

~ Dean Fellithor

P.S. I wouldn't come here and tell you all about this if the Teachers were not noticing all this, seriously: these teachers do not give a damn that I am going through hell and not reaching it through the center circle.

I know exactly how you feel. When I was in set 4 German I was surrounded by people who had the IQ of a rock. I wasn't bad at German I was just lazy. Everyone else was a douchebag in that class but managed to get moved up a set in about 5 weeks.

[A Rainy Knight]

I feel for you. My English class was full of people who could barely read or write. Luckily, my teacher realized that me and a girl in my class were reading on a post-high school level and arranged to transfer us to another class. I start tomorrow! :smallbiggrin:

However, I do realise that many people aren't so lucky.

Oh, and the feeling of being the only smart kid in your class? I had that a lot, not counting the aforementioned girl (who will remain unnamed) in my class.

[zeratul]

Actually, I've found that going and telling people about the problem, as a rule, does not work. I'd advise the duck down approach. And I hate to say it dude, but...

You should probably cut your hair. I'm not saying long hair is gay. It's not. I think long hair is cool, but I had my hair long for more than half of a year, and I took so much s*** for it that I realized it wasn't worth it. That and it's a bit of a nuisance. My hair has a slight curl to it, so it tangled itself fairly often. Like, once every five minutes:smallyuk:

But I digress. Use smaller words with these idiots. They may feel like you're talking down to them with your "geek talk", and are embarassed that you're so much smarter than they are. It would explain why they're lashing out at you. try helping them in class.

I know this won't work right away if you try it, so give it some time. And I know what I'm talking about. I've had to deal with one bunch of idiots or another all my life.

Some people should be talked down to.

Why not try my approach, instead of cutting your hair keep it long, buy a black trench coat, and wear black a lot. Works like a charm, nowadays trench coats carry an association with people one does not want to mess with. Try it.

[Indon]

I remember having that problem in school.

I was exceptionally intelligent, and worse yet, physically unimposing and possessed of a high-pitched, nasal voice (all qualities I still retain, in fact). Not a good combination for fitting in.

People stopped bulling me about the time I realized that it's easy to intimidate them. It's not even about size or tone of voice; it's about eye contact and not reacting like they expect you to. A good snarl and laugh (I recommend the kind with significant diaphragm strength but little actual voice behind it, kind of a dry cackle) help, too.

[Telonius]

Regarding the spelling issue ... I work for a scientific journal. Everybody I deal with has a PhD, and is at or near the top of their field. Even so, only about half of them are capable of sending an e-mail with proper spelling and grammar. Bad spelling happens; my advice is to get used to it. It doesn't go away.

[Aereshaa_the_2nd]

I have just such a problem. Generally I ignore them, do well in class, and never, ever show off. If people call me a nerd, geek, or any such name, I first explain (slowly and in short words) why they shouldn't call me these names, and if they persist, move to a different seat.

In the event of physical violence, I would run to fetch the authorities, if possible. If I am incapable of doing so, I would defend myself using anything that I can, viewing it as a life-threatening situation. This might be a problem, given your apparent small build and inadequate strength, however. (not to say that I have ever been in such a situation. This is just my opinion as to what I would do.)

The best fighting strategy in a life-threatening situation, for a weak person, in my opinion, is to use whatever comes to hand: Chairs, heavy books, etc.

EDIT: Also, in the eyes of the law, all lethal weapons are equally lethal. You are not obliged to put down that desk and fight fair against the bastard with the switchblade.

[Indon]

Regarding the spelling issue ... I work for a scientific journal. Everybody I deal with has a PhD, and is at or near the top of their field. Even so, only about half of them are capable of sending an e-mail with proper spelling and grammar. Bad spelling happens; my advice is to get used to it. It doesn't go away.

My workplace (A laboratory) recently had an official campaign for better spelling and grammar in technical documentation, complete with a cartoon character mascot.

[Telonius]

Now, about the whole bullying thing. Bullies have existed since the beginning of time, and they've always had easy targets in geeks. Sometimes it works out well for the geeks (Bill Gates), sometimes it works out better for the bullies (Socrates).

The thing that you really should remember in dealing with any situation of conflict comes straight out of Sun Tzu. Deal with it using the least amount of force necessary to achieve your goal; and remember that the highest martial art is turning an enemy into a friend.

Shore up your weaknesses. It wouldn't hurt you to do a little bit of exercising. No less of a nerd than Aristotle advocated a good balance between mind and body. Don't neglect your social skills, either. You're fortunate in that most modern societies - schools included - are set up so that people with good social skills tend to dominate. Work on those skills. It doesn't matter how smart you are, or how strong you are - if you don't have the support of at least a few people besides yourself, you won't get far.

[Arameus]

I understand.

I am one of the smartest people in my county, let alone my school. I've been in classes where most other students could hardly spell their names, and in those classes I do indeed get a good bit of ribbing for being brainy. Perhaps a bit of honest questioning, but mostly just pestering and mean-spirited commentary.

When I was in first grade learning to read, the teacher pulled me aside and asked that I read a page on a blue-construction paper background. I read through it, not really understanding what bearing it had on what we were doing. I didn't realize until after the teacher told me it was 4th-Grade-level material that I realized it was much different from what we were studying.

I have, over the years, been continuously pulled aside for exactly this sort of thing, most notably in English classes; apparently I'm some sort of Writing Messiah. Early in elementary school, a man sent by the state specifically for me tested my IQ at 127. Recently, it was put at almost twenty points higher. The score alone is impressive, but the growth was what really stood out; IQ's are known to grow, but by small increments, not from 127 to 144.

Now, in my Senior year, I can really take a good look back on things. Over the years, the constant gap between the other students and I has done irreparable damage. Never having a peer, someone with which I could talk to or play with like any of the other kids profoundly affected me and to this day my social life is crippled, not only due to that self-same reason but due to the fact that I have no real experience dealing with people on a social level.

I have never had more than one or two friends at a time, and the ones I had weren't really what could be called friends; you had to sit somewhere at lunch, after all, and just because they don't really like you isn't good reason to sit alone. I sit alone now. From my last year in middle school to a few months ago, I hadn't received a single phone call just to say 'hello.' This, despite the fact that I was universally friendly and known to all to possess a brilliant sense of humor. This is devastating to the developing mind of a teenager.

The constant loneliness has affected me. Despite my intelligence, I don't perform well in many subjects simply due to lack of interest: I never had to try to do well before, so if something doesn't interest me, then that urge to do well just isn't there. Despite getting a 32 on the ACT, I'm failing two classes. The 'Well, when you're a CEO one day' gibberish doesn't work on me; that'll never happen.

Don't ever, ever think that being intelligent is consolation enough for the teasing and constantly being set apart. I may never recover from it.

[Solo]

No. No. NO!

Violence is never the answer to any sort of problem. I was involved in fights with bullies back when I was in Primary School (Grades 6 and below), and the repercussions were very severe. I got hauled up in front of the Prefect Master, and I had the very real worry that I would be suspended.

Although I have never experienced your sort of serious situation before, I know violence will not resolve it. Having a reputation as a Hooligan does you no good.

Meh, worked for me.

[Telonius]

Meh, worked for me.

...said the guy with the Black Mage avatar. :smallbiggrin:

[Solo]

You sir, win the Internet.



On a more serious note, whilst society has rules against violence, such rules are made my man, and as man is fallible, so too will his laws be fallible.

I do not advocate enacting physical violence unto your harassers without serious though of the consequences on your part, and an exhaustion of all other means to resolve the issue peacefully, but if nothing else will do, well, a man must stand up for himself somehow, or else he does not respect himself and his dignity as a human being.



Have you ever been bullied? And I mean properly bullied. I have, by at least 100 kids, from my year level and those above mine. I have had 1 and a half years of school without having a single friend I could talk to. Ok? Now...Violence DOES NOT HELP!! I threw a desk at someone, yeah? I hit them, it didn't help. Made it worse. I stabbed someone in the hand with a pencil, didn't help, hell made it even worse than before, again...

Violence = bad!!!

I can't speak for your experience, but I had a kid who was on my case in sixth grade, and he wouldn't stop, so I hit him with a book bag full of books, got into a wrestling match with him, was separated by an adult, and the next time we met, he didn't bother with me.


I can agree with the sediment that violence is often unnecessary when handling problems, but it should always be an option considered, as you can't solve every problem you meet in a peaceful fashion.

Life isn't nice. You can't make everyone your friend by holding hands and singing.

[Sisqui]

Don't ever, ever think that being intelligent is consolation enough for the teasing and constantly being set apart. I may never recover from it.

No offense (seriously) but with an attitude like that, I'll bet on it. It would be easy money. The first thing you need to do is get a more positive attitude.



I can agree with the sediment that violence is often unnecessary when handling problems, but it should always be an option considered, as you can't solve every problem you meet in a peaceful fashion.

What he said. (And WHITE mage, FTW! At least, I think so. Which one was it that could cast the exit spell again? Still, you can't beat the life spell!)

[Leliel]

You're telling me. I once knew a guy who thought in WWII, we allied with Germany against Russia. Same guy probably will become a KKK member since they're the only ones with standards low enough to accept him.

My story: A bully once came up to me and "asked" for my lunch money. Same bully later discovered, after much back-and-forth taunting and a ball kick, that A)I fit the stereotype of "Gentle Giant" and B) I took three years Taek Won Do. Never bothered me again. Or told the principle, probably since he was terrified of me at that point. Good source of lunch money when I forgot it.

I say give em' hell. Take hope that in the latter years of high school and college, all the "mean" kids have dropped out...Hard. Plus, they are cowards.

[zeratul]

You can't make everyone your friend by holding hands and singing.

My secret plan is ruined! I hope your happy! Now what will I do with all these "sing with me and hold my hand" shirts!???

........I know, I'll sell them to canadians! For double cost, it's ingenious!:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
(JK)

[Telonius]

My workplace (A laboratory) recently had an official campaign for better spelling and grammar in technical documentation, complete with a cartoon character mascot.

On behalf of all the science journals in the world - THANK YOU! :smallsmile:

[PlatinumJester]

Hire some people to beat the **** out of them.

[eidreff]

Myself and my brothers were always picked on for being from a large family. (9 guys 4 gals plus my parents) I got the nickname Rover as in what you'd call a rottweiler for savaging someone, my borther was called Nearly Normal Norman, i think that was for flipping at some excessive bullying. We stood up but had a crowd behind us that approved to what we did (they were all victims too, but together stood strong).

From what's been said standing up can have major down falls and i undertand this, but like Charity said earlier, school ends. It's amazing that some peoplenever grow up but suddenly when school is over yo will find that there are people on your level at uni.

P.S. moral victory for me is that out of the ****s that tried to bully me and my kin at leat 70% are have have recently done time for drug related junky type offences.

nil carborundum illegitimi.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: I'll leave this open, but please follow the Rules of Posting and, well, be nice to each other. Thanks.

[Dallas-Dakota]

one : Violence can be the answer, just always the first and best one.
two : going to authority doesnt help in the long term at most cases
three : if you ignore them, they´l ignore you in most cases.
four : social skills RULE, well at school anyway.
five : solve your own problems, it works, go talk to them, they find that very annoying, if they use violence, they used it first and then beat the crap out of them, they started:smalltongue:

About my case :
I feel like I have a int of 11 and a wis of 19
I feel like my class has a int of 13 and a wis of 11

[Solo]

one : Violence can be the answer, just not always the first and best one.


Surely you mean this?

[Dean Fellithor]

Some people should be talked down to.

Why not try my approach, instead of cutting your hair keep it long, buy a black trench coat, and wear black a lot. Works like a charm, nowadays trench coats carry an association with people one does not want to mess with. Try it.


Hair - to late, I get it cut when the summer time comes, guess what time it is?

Black clothes - Check, black pants and black under shirt messily under an unbuttoned formal-dress school shirt, then my black bag and my (naturally) dark Hair.

Trench Coat - this could get me expelled and I think everyone has watched "The Matrix" a few to many times to care about me wearing one, plus I think they already established that I'm an 'easy target'.

[StickMan]

Black clothes - Check, black pants and black under shirt messily under an unbuttoned formal-dress school shirt, then my black bag and my (naturally) dark Hair.

Trench Coat - this could get me expelled and I think everyone has watched "The Matrix" a few to many times to care about me wearing one, plus I think they already established that I'm an 'easy target'.

OK I just noted that you live in Australia and your wearing Black clothes and a Trench Coat isn't that like a little hot? Totally off topic I know but man I knew some one from Australia said they use to have Heat days off school!

[Dean Fellithor]

OK I just noted that you live in Australia and your wearing Black clothes and a Trench Coat isn't that like a little hot? Totally off topic I know but man I knew some one from Australia said they use to have Heat days off school!

It does get pretty hot, like this summer and there have been a few heat waves (where some people have died even) but sometimes you get used to it, considering the facts of "if it gets to hot you will be cooked".

[Om]

I also happened to suffer from the arrogance that some intelligent-but-socially-awkward kids carry, and I found that, surprise!, the way I acted around others directly affected how they acted towards me. Kids will pick on the geeky smart kids, that's a given, no matter what motive you ascribe. They'll keep picking on the kids that get fussy, arrogant and confrontational about it. The "you're just jealous because I'm smarter than you" is a great way to never make any friends and always have kids harassing you. By far, it's one of the best. Throwing a fit works too and it helps to run off and find a teacher every time someone looks twice at you.

My point is that kids stopped picking on me once I stopped giving them a reason. It's real easy to point and blame everything on the bullies without acknowledging that you're partly responsible for the situation, no matter how fair it is. Being a condescending little prick won't make the jackasses leave you alone, nor will psychoanalyzing them, hiding or having Mom fight your battles. I would know--I tried them all. The only method to make kids stop picking on you is to not to give them a reason. If you don't care, they won't care. Kids may be vicious, stupid and cruel but they're lazy and opportunistic. If there's no fun in picking on you, they won't.Now that is an excellent post and I couldn't agree more with it. To be perfectly honest one reason that I tend to avoid this particular subforum is the occasional threads like this in which a bright young thing laments the "room temperature" IQ of their peers. That is an... arrogance that I find extremely unappealing and that I have very little sympathy for.

I've have known such students, back in my school days, who believed that they were intellectually superior and cut themselves off from the rest of the student body. They were in turn unmercifully slagged (we were too busy fighting the rival school to beat ourselves up) and generally unpopular. In contrast there were some genuinely brilliant students who did not aspire to be so aloof and who got along grand with the rest of us mere mortals. Some of these people were extremely popular and very successful in managing their academic and social lives.


Why not try my approach, instead of cutting your hair keep it long, buy a black trench coat, and wear black a lot. Works like a charm, nowadays trench coats carry an association with people one does not want to mess with. Try it.In the US perhaps. Where I come from it would mark you out as a Neo-wannabe. You might want to go for that image to fit in with a certain subculture but it would have minimal effect on deterring bullies.

[Tom_Violence]

Now that is an excellent post and I couldn't agree more with it. To be perfectly honest one reason that I tend to avoid this particular subforum is the occasional threads like this in which a bright young thing laments the "room temperature" IQ of their peers. That is an... arrogance that I find extremely unappealing and that I have very little sympathy for.

I've have known such students, back in my school days, who believed that they were intellectually superior and cut themselves off from the rest of the student body. They were in turn unmercifully slagged (we were too busy fighting the rival school to beat ourselves up) and generally unpopular. In contrast there were some genuinely brilliant students who did not aspire to be so aloof and who got along grand with the rest of us mere mortals. Some of these people were extremely popular and very successful in managing their academic and social lives.

In the US perhaps. Where I come from it would mark you out as a Neo-wannabe. You might want to go for that image to fit in with a certain subculture but it would have minimal effect on deterring bullies.

Well said! Hear hear! :smallbiggrin: I do despise the way that some people believe that since they're 'smarter', whatever the hell that means, that they somehow deserve a better reponse from those around them. No matter how smart you are, ultimately how you act towards other people is gonna determine how they act towards you back.


To be perfectly honest one reason that I tend to avoid this particular subforum is the occasional threads like this in which a bright young thing laments the "room temperature" IQ of their peers.

Well, that and the 'SmashHits' "what's your favourite colour?" type threads generally steer me clear of the ol' Friendly Banter. :smallwink:

[ForzaFiori]

First: I"m gonna admit it, i didn't read the whole thread. I have trouble concentrating for that long.

anyway, from what i DID read:
While I am living proof that violence is NOT the answer (I was arrested for fighting in 7th grade), i must admit that it is all some people listen to. However, if you ARE going to do it, make sure NO ONE sees you.

Try talking to the police though, as harassment should be illegal

[Indon]

I've have known such students, back in my school days, who believed that they were intellectually superior and cut themselves off from the rest of the student body. They were in turn unmercifully slagged (we were too busy fighting the rival school to beat ourselves up) and generally unpopular. In contrast there were some genuinely brilliant students who did not aspire to be so aloof and who got along grand with the rest of us mere mortals. Some of these people were extremely popular and very successful in managing their academic and social lives.


That has less to do with intelligence and more with desire and preferences to socialize. It also has to do with different cultural interests. Personally, the conversation most people are capable of and enjoy having, I find ridiculously boring, and I can't stand it for longer than a few minutes at a time.

Similarly, if I talk about something that interests me, most people stop listening within seconds.

I can't really _fault_ people for not being interested in artificial intelligence or number theory, just as they can't fault me for not liking football; but I sure can't hold an interesting discussion with them. (Edit: And as such I have no particular desire to be in a position in which I would be expected to talk with such)

[Om]

That has less to do with intelligence and more with desire and preferences to socialize.Exactly. Relative intelligence has a minimal role in dictating social patterns/groupings. Unless of course someone takes it into their heads that their intellect automatically elevates them above everyone else.

[Indon]

Exactly. Relative intelligence has a minimal role in dictating social patterns/groupings. Unless of course someone takes it into their heads that their intellect automatically elevates them above everyone else.

While I haven't looked into it, I'd be willing to wager there's a correlation between IQ (Admittedly, that's not intelligence, but it is vaguely related to it) and degree of interest in more 'intellectual' topics... which would be precisely the kind of thing that would inhibit conversation and thus socialization.

[Om]

In my experience there is absolutely nothing about having a high IQ that precludes an interest in, for example, football or having a social life. As I said, the most brilliant students that I grew up with were also amongst the most popular in the school.

Far more important factors in the establishment of, and participation in, social cliques are the likes of personality (the primary determinant and a good reason not to be an arrogant pr*ck) and class. In my school each of the various groups (footballers, spice boys, grungers, etc etc) contained a fairly even spread of high and low performing students.

[Emperor Ing]

Im so sick of this. In my study hall, when people are writing papers, they would CONSISTENTLY ask me...

"Hey Randomizer, how do you spell 'because'?"
"Ok, look. Either get a dictionary, or learn to spell."

[Thanatos 51-50]

Human beings are, in general, idiots.
To be fair, I would needle you (or really, anybody) about their being overweight if they were flagrantly so, even and especially if I was on good terms with said person. In fact, I still do so to this day.

No, onto your being teased a ridiculous amount:
I, myself have been teased, mocked, ridiculed, made fun of, put down, recieved snarky comments, and in general, had been (try to) humiliate me all my life. I'm nineteen and in the military - it still happens, with about the same maturity involved in your typical highschool case.

My personal answer to this "problem"? I simply don't care. Obviously, you do, so here are some techniques which I found got people to leave me alone if I washaving a bad day or really felt like being malicious, myself.

First off, thinking on your feet is vital. Your primary objecive is to keep anything from coming to blows. Do what you can to avoid combat, if your tormeters have short fuses, stay well away from matches. If they do blow, run like the wind. With nowhere to run to, take cover. My recomendation on the violence front is: don't.

Secondly. Take (mental) notes of your tormeters, particularly their favorite method of ridicule and favorite insults. Form an effective counter or buffer to these. If all they do is sling stiinging words pointing out your flaws, return with equally stinging retort. Preferably, keep your retorts well above their level of comprehension (I did this for my entire Junior Year English class - all semster, it was hilarious).

Further, remeber, people have friends. Not everyone does, but most people do, and even those without friends have allies. Nothing cuts down on people verbally abusing you than a deft manipulation of one party, or a cunning bit of word-smithery in front of these friends or allies. Best case scenario, they began (figurativly) shooting at each other, worst case, they pause for a few seconds to reconsider the facts (if things look like they're about to get violent, these few seconds can give you precious "fleeing the scene" time)

Finally, even if you do care about being verbally abused and harrased in any way (Throwing of apples, pears, and other various produces, as well as the ol' glue-in-the-hair), act like you don't. I have been harrased in class (people throwing things), and not reacted, or even faltered in a penstroke. In most cases, however, when doing nothing (I had finished the test, for example), people got the distinct impression that I was asleep. while counter-productive, these instances were, indeed, hilarious, especially when I gave a perfect recounting of events shortly thereafter (which, inevitably, occured). A good way of throwing up (or maintaing)this facade (if it is, indeed one), is to remain appearing confident, with either amazingly good posture, or an amazingly lazy, bored manner. I opted for the latter.
~~~
If things get violent, and if the harrasment is violent, I must re-iterate that the conflict is probably not worth your life or continued health and well-being. Flee the scene, defend yourself, above all, stay alive.
~~~

[Dean Fellithor]

I just hope that no one ever asks me how to spell "Madness". :furious: :smallwink:

[Alasdair]

Have you ever had the feeling that your the only smart kid in your class?

Trust me, you're not the smartest kid. Smart kids know how to use words correctly, and when they're too socially inept to make friends, they realise that they need to fix themselves rather than wallowing in self pity and blaming the issue on everybody else.

You're anti-social. Social isn't anti-you.

[Serpentine]

Im so sick of this. In my study hall, when people are writing papers, they would CONSISTENTLY ask me...

"Hey Randomizer, how do you spell 'because'?"
"Ok, look. Either get a dictionary, or learn to spell."
I still go through "Birds Eat Cabbages And Uncle Sells Eggs" when I write that word. I don't need to, but I used it so often in primary school it's been drilled into my brain. You could always suggest that to them... Or, if you wanted to educate them, ask "How doyou think it's spelled?"

[geek_2049]

Can the people on the playground spell commonly confused words?

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/14457200288064322170/Commonly-Confused-Words

[Emperor Demonking]

I got You scored 92% Beginner, 85% Intermediate, 66% Advanced, and 66% Expert!.

In my opinion the "slower" you are, the less choices of interest you have.

I for sure, don't believe people who prefer to play sports rather than read are smarter, because they fit in.

[Elidyr]

Reading your post, I would gather you project the same arrogance found in your post. As some posters already stated, maybe you should try a different approach.Maybe you should try a friendly conversation with your classmates about something they like (yeah, conformism bla bla, beats getting harrased) and work from there. Telling them they're stupid usually doesnt do wonders.

[Crow]

I got You scored 92% Beginner, 85% Intermediate, 66% Advanced, and 66% Expert!.

In my opinion the "slower" you are, the less choices of interest you have.

I for sure, don't believe people who prefer to play sports rather than read are smarter, because they fit in.

I don't think intelligence has as much bearing on a person's interests as you do. People will tend to learn more about the things they are interested in. A "slow" person may be interested in, and learn about aeronautics because their grandpa was a fighter pilot and enjoyed the stories he told, and a "smart" person may be interested in, and learn about football because they grew up watching it with their dad and have fond memories of it.

I know bodybuilders whose knowledge regarding fitness and nutrition borders on that of professors and physicians. In fact, I know sports-minded people with PhD's in fitness-related fields. I also know fitness models who are deeply interested in philosophy, and football players who like to debate statistics and probability.

"Social Grace" is just another learned behavior, and a smart or slow person can devote themselves to nuances of getting along with new people just as well as anybody else. Personally, I think learning how to get along with new people and making an effort to relate to people does count as a "smart" behavior. Think about how much difficulty these guys are avoiding by making friends with everyone, rather than berating them for their inferior intellect.

[13_CBS]

Wait, so you guys feel annoyed about being too SMART?

UGH.

Count your blessings, folks. You guys don't have to run around school everyday talking with friends and attending classes that make you feel really really dumb. Take my friends; all of them either work hard and are smarter than me, or don't work at all and are MUCH smarter than me.

Whenever I get into debates or discussions of any sort, people run circles all around me unless the person I'm debating with is just plain ignorant. I've never won a legitimate debate, almost never managed to convince anyone of anything valid, etc. The fact that I'm extremely skeptical yet gullible at the same time doesn't really help much.

I'm not really artistically intelligent or logically/mathematically/scientifically intelligent, either. Literature goes over my head (curse you Shakespear, curse you...), numbers boggle me, and science...well, let's just say that Chemistry made one particular school year rather painful. The only reason I have an A high school average is because of my memory, which helps me remember how to do math problems (no "figuring out" for me; I can only memorize how to do problems), specific terms, etc. Which helps immensely with classes like history or Biology, but even then more advanced, erudite history starts going into fields that leave me bamboozled.

Artistic intelligence? Please. I'm a musical hack despite my 14 years' experience on an instrument. And eyes tend to bleed when they see my drawings, should I ever decide to curse the world with them.

So you guys feel intelligent? Feel too smart and all?

At least you don't feel stupid. :smallannoyed:

[Artemician]

Wait, so you guys feel annoyed about being too SMART?

UGH.

Count your blessings, folks. You guys don't have to run around school everyday talking with friends and attending classes that make you feel really really dumb. Take my friends; all of them either work hard and are smarter than me, or don't work at all and are MUCH smarter than me.

Whenever I get into debates or discussions of any sort, people run circles all around me unless the person I'm debating with is just plain ignorant. I've never won a legitimate debate, almost never managed to convince anyone of anything valid, etc. The fact that I'm extremely skeptical yet gullible at the same time doesn't really help much.

I'm not really artistically intelligent or logically/mathematically/scientifically intelligent, either. Literature goes over my head (curse you Shakespear, curse you...), numbers boggle me, and science...well, let's just say that Chemistry made one particular school year rather painful. The only reason I have an A high school average is because of my memory, which helps me remember how to do math problems (no "figuring out" for me; I can only memorize how to do problems), specific terms, etc. Which helps immensely with classes like history or Biology, but even then more advanced, erudite history starts going into fields that leave me bamboozled.

Artistic intelligence? Please. I'm a musical hack despite my 14 years' experience on an instrument. And eyes tend to bleed when they see my drawings, should I ever decide to curse the world with them.

So you guys feel intelligent? Feel too smart and all?

At least you don't feel stupid. :smallannoyed:

Hear, hear. *Points to self*. Me too!

[Rogue 7]

It's not being smart that's the problem. It's being a d*** about them. I went through that in middle school- had a bunch of people tease the everlovin' c*** outta me, and it got to me. No lasting damage, but it still sucked. I couldn't do anything, because they'd twist back anything I'd say at them, and it was all words so I couldn't justify violence.

High School was better- I had friends, things to do, and people to talk to. I wasn't particularly social or popular, but that didn't matter- people were cool, and I didn't have to hang around with too many stupid people. However, I had few close friends, and tended not to do a lot with them. I realize now that, while I certainly mellowed in my later years of high school, middle school and freshman year, I was something of a jerk. Nothing horrible, I just wasn't all that nice, and that was because I tended to be condesending and superior about my supposed intelligence. I know I'm smart. I've got the test scores to prove it. However, I'm not quite as smart as the test scores indicate, and for a while I wasn't smart enough to realize that my supposed superiority was driving people away. So here's my advice for the bullies- find a group of fellows who share your interests and whom you can talk to on your level. There's got to be at least 2 or 3 of them in your school, so go out and find them. Then, ignore them. Sit alone in your group. It doesn't matter what the others think, as long as you've got a decent group of friends, you'll do fine, and at worst, they can back you up in a fight. Next, so you're smart. So what? Everyone's got something they're good at, brains and brains alone is all I've got. When you recognize that it's all you've got, and that other people have other things that they're good at, it makes your brains seem a whole lot less superior. I think I've gotten a whole lot more friends because I've played down the brains aspect and simply tried to be a nice guy.

Secondly, try martial arts. I waited until high school to do that, and really missed out. The skills and workouts are great, but I made some awesome friends there- smart and not-so-smart alike. Not to mention that they make even better backup in a fight, if it comes down to it. Case in point, a freshman at our dojo was getting hassled. Two of the seniors, one of whom is absolutely huge, and the second guy, who's so good it's downright scary, along with another guy almost as good, were going to back him up if he needed it. When you know you have the skills to back up what you're saying, and friends to fall back on if that's not enough, you don't need violence. You know you'll win, so their taunts just seem petty if you know that in two seconds your foot can be in their gut. Helps the self-confidence.

[Lolzords]

I'm emphathic for you, probably because if in the same clique as you. They call us geeks, but just be happy that when you finish school/college we'll be the ones with a nice car and a good job, while they'll be the ones delivering our pizza.

[Alasdair]

Kids don't get picked on because they're smart. I speak from experience in being the smart kid who got along with everybody. Hell, in the first two years of high school, I used to be anti social, think everybody else was retarded, and just didn't "get me" because "I AM SMARTER THAN ALL THE PLEBS". No, that's not it. I was too arrogant to acknowledge who the problem lay with - myself. Socialization is a learned skill, and it takes intelligence. After I acknowledged the problem I fixed it and now I'm pretty extroverted and can get along with anybody and make new friends easily.

A big sign of intelligence is recognising your own faults - such as being an anti social elitist.

[Dean Fellithor]

78% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 66% Advanced, and 53% Expert!
Most people my school wouldn't get half of that.

[Rogue 7]

Kids don't get picked on because they're smart. I speak from experience in being the smart kid who got along with everybody. Hell, in the first two years of high school, I used to be anti social, think everybody else was retarded, and just didn't "get me" because "I AM SMARTER THAN ALL THE PLEBS". No, that's not it. I was too arrogant to acknowledge who the problem lay with - myself. Socialization is a learned skill, and it takes intelligence. After I acknowledged the problem I fixed it and now I'm pretty extroverted and can get along with anybody and make new friends easily.

A big sign of intelligence is recognising your own faults - such as being an anti social elitist.

Very true. However, those with book smarts often concentrate on those to the exclusion of their social skills. So, you see a greater instance of social outcasts in those with book smarts. I had this problem as well, and I fixed it to a point- I also recognized that I'm not an incredibly social guy- I'm fine amusing myself, either with video games or the internet or books. My mom thinks I'm still antisocial, but I really don't care.

[Traveling_Angel]

What you really need are some friends. The people who will back you up. I have been in the position where my interference stopped a bully.

One REALLY big guy at my school was picking on one of my friends, so I pulled the bully aside and said "Stop it" in the tone of a dog growl, and he stopped. And the bully in question was about six inches/15 cm taller then me, but he stopped. What may have made a difference was that this bully respected me, (ironically, as the smart kid) and felt my opinion mattered. He had tried to be my friend, but his altitude as a bully put us out instantly. One thing I learned in a bit of Akido (sp?) was that if a bully (esp. in school circumstances) is told to stop by a friend of the target, then s/he will most likely back off.

What you really need to do is make yourself less of a target. Carry yourself with confidence. Use that nerdy vocabulary (I got the nickname "Dictionary"), flaunt your difference, and be proud of it. Don't be arrogant, but acknowledge that you very well might be the smartest person in the classroom. This may seem like a stupid move, but if you accept and are comfortable with who you are (and broadcast it), unless it is really bad, people will leave you alone.

To those who say that arrogance isn't the smarts- I say that being smart can lead to arrogance, and that can lead to social problems. I know quite a few smart people who have real ego issues. One of my social graces is that I am a brain, but don't have the characteristic arrogance. I will take someone saying I'm smart, but never introduce myself as such. Let your intelligence carry the day, and you'll do fine.



Now, in my Senior year, I can really take a good look back on things. Over the years, the constant gap between the other students and I has done irreparable damage. Never having a peer, someone with which I could talk to or play with like any of the other kids profoundly affected me and to this day my social life is crippled, not only due to that self-same reason but due to the fact that I have no real experience dealing with people on a social level.

I have never had more than one or two friends at a time, and the ones I had weren't really what could be called friends; you had to sit somewhere at lunch, after all, and just because they don't really like you isn't good reason to sit alone. I sit alone now. From my last year in middle school to a few months ago, I hadn't received a single phone call just to say 'hello.' This, despite the fact that I was universally friendly and known to all to possess a brilliant sense of humor. This is devastating to the developing mind of a teenager.

The constant loneliness has affected me. Despite my intelligence, I don't perform well in many subjects simply due to lack of interest: I never had to try to do well before, so if something doesn't interest me, then that urge to do well just isn't there. Despite getting a 32 on the ACT, I'm failing two classes. The 'Well, when you're a CEO one day' gibberish doesn't work on me; that'll never happen.

Don't ever, ever think that being intelligent is consolation enough for the teasing and constantly being set apart. I may never recover from it.

You know what you could have really used? An older brother with a similar talents. I have such a brother, and it taught me how to talk to someone who is "dumber" then you, yet without giving them the impression that they're being talked down to (you learn that fast after being on the receiving end of such stuff). It's an important skill for me, and I use it every day I go to school. So what should you do now? Recover. Get yourself outsmarted. If you're ready for it. It can come as quite a shock, and it may be hard, but try going to say, a really high-brow university (Harvard for USA, or something along those lines) because there is someone smarter then you at something. If writing is your skill, then hand some stuff of to critics. They'll tear it to shreds, but if you admit that you may not be the best at what you do well, then you're a step towards humility.

[Artemician]

78% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 66% Advanced, and 53% Expert!
Most people my school wouldn't get half of that.

100% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 100% Advanced, and 93% Expert. Most people in my school would probably get 100% for expert as well.

But spelling skills, as other people have stated, are not really a good way to measure intellect.


Very true. However, those with book smarts often concentrate on those to the exclusion of their social skills. So, you see a greater instance of social outcasts in those with book smarts. I had this problem as well, and I fixed it to a point- I also recognized that I'm not an incredibly social guy- I'm fine amusing myself, either with video games or the internet or books. My mom thinks I'm still antisocial, but I really don't care.

Yes... very true. But even scarier are those who can balance book smarts and social skills. You know, the Class President dude with the gigantic circle of friends, who's popular with the teachers, and wins competitions for the Bowling Team. My best friend is someone like this. Scary stuff. These people are the kind of people who go about doing things like Travelling Angel: by not thinking of their intellect as making them superior to other people, by making a lot of friends, and by not talking down to people. Good advice to follow, in my book.

[Catch]

78% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 66% Advanced, and 53% Expert!
Most people my school wouldn't get half of that.

See, this is the mindset I was talking about a few pages back. (Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3318862&postcount=69), actually.) When you believe you're smarter than everyone else, it seeps into your actions and your speech. That arrogant condescending attitude will only make kids want to harass you even more. They're not picking on you because you're smart, they're picking on you because you're rubbing it in their faces and strutting around like you should be recognized and adored for your supposed intellectual superiority.

Bullies may be more inclined to mess with the smart kids, but with your attitude, you're basically asking for it. Instead of looking down your nose at everyone, try to be a little more understanding and a little less egotistical.

[Rogue 7]

Yes... very true. But even scarier are those who can balance book smarts and social skills. You know, the Class President dude with the gigantic circle of friends, who's popular with the teachers, and wins competitions for the Bowling Team. My best friend is someone like this. Scary stuff. These people are the kind of people who go about doing things like Travelling Angel: by not thinking of their intellect as making them superior to other people, by making a lot of friends, and by not talking down to people. Good advice to follow, in my book.

...And the worst part is, they're so damn nice you can't hate them for being so perfect!

[Khaldan]

Which is part of why they're so well liked.

You scored 85% Beginner, 92% Intermediate, 93% Advanced, and 80% Expert! I do worse at the easy stuff! :smallbiggrin:

[Iethloc]

92% Beginner, 100% intermediate, 93% Expert, 100% Expert

I know I did exceedingly well, but I can't help but feel disappointed by the lack of perfection across the board.


Anyway, I could not help but notice that I am more intelligent than my classmates. I don't normally feel smart, but it becomes uncomfortably obvious whenever I even hear my classmates read. Or see their writing.

But while I do not socialize often, I still seem to be at least more than unpopular. A lot of people whom I have only casually met would sometimes announce "Steve-O!" when they see me. I don't like that nickname, though. Politely telling them to call me Steven instead almost always works.

But I still have friends who are not my friends simply because we are both "elitist intellectuals". It's because we share common interests. And I don't necessarily act smart around them, either.

[geek_2049]

The Commonly Confused Words Test: http://www.okcupid.com/tests/14457200288064322170/Commonly-Confused-Words

My Score: Advanced
You scored 100% Beginner, 92% Intermediate, 86% Advanced, and 73% Expert!

the Commonly Confused Words, To, Test: http://www.okcupid.com/tests/352038631121775453/Commonly-Confused-Words,-To,

My Score: B (Skillful)
You got 31 questions right out of 40.

SCORING BREAKDOWN:

13/14 Easy Questions -- 9/13 Medium Questions -- 9/13 Hard Questions

[Serpentine]

...And the worst part is, they're so damn nice you can't hate them for being so perfect!
Two of those were going out, at various times, with the guy I had a rather enduring crush on. Who was also one of those people. And all three were in the "cool" group :smallsigh:

[Charity]

You scored 100% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 86% Advanced, and 93% Expert!

Dang it, I was crap at the Advanced Q's.

Tom and Om... I find I am in agreement with the pair of you... all in all a very bad day :smalltongue:

[banjo1985]

You scored 92% Beginner, 100% Intermediate, 100% Advanced, and 80% Expert!

Oh dear, where did I mess up on the beginners stuff? Those scores are a little scary, surely I'm not that much of an English geek? I haven't studied English since high school! :smalleek:

[Indon]

See, this is the mindset I was talking about a few pages back. (Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3318862&postcount=69), actually.) When you believe you're smarter than everyone else, it seeps into your actions and your speech. That arrogant condescending attitude will only make kids want to harass you even more. They're not picking on you because you're smart, they're picking on you because you're rubbing it in their faces and strutting around like you should be recognized and adored for your supposed intellectual superiority.

Bullies may be more inclined to mess with the smart kids, but with your attitude, you're basically asking for it. Instead of looking down your nose at everyone, try to be a little more understanding and a little less egotistical.

That's only a part of it, as well.

People pick on people who are different, and being smarter often counts. Only after individuals are ostracised for being different would they internalize a new social identity independent from their detractors (ie: 'nerd') which leads them to behavior in-keeping for that social identity.

Furthermore, trying to _do_ things with your intelligence, living up to your potential, is only inevitably going to lead to you isolating yourself from the majority. Try to graduate high school early via the GED program? Try to utilize your creativity to produce an actual invention or work of art? These things don't make you friends; if anything, intellectual accomplishment is intimidating.

[Catch]

That's only a part of it, as well.

People pick on people who are different, and being smarter often counts. Only after individuals are ostracised for being different would they internalize a new social identity independent from their detractors (ie: 'nerd') which leads them to behavior in-keeping for that social identity.

Furthermore, trying to _do_ things with your intelligence, living up to your potential, is only inevitably going to lead to you isolating yourself from the majority. Try to graduate high school early via the GED program? Try to utilize your creativity to produce an actual invention or work of art? These things don't make you friends; if anything, intellectual accomplishment is intimidating.

While you didn't say it in so many words, you're basically reiterating the idea that the victims of bullying and harassment don't have any hand in their social fate and that their status and overall livelihood is somehow someone else's responsibility. If you draw your identity and happiness from the group, whether you're part of it or not, they're not holding you back, you are.

Too often are kids pigeonholed by their acceptance of the roles other people ascribe to them. You're a nerd if you choose to be, not because someone calls you one. I contend that it's up to the freaks, nerds and romantics to not give a collective crap about what the herd thinks of them. Learning to not care is what separates the victims from those who break away from the flock and make their own happiness. There's nothing innately wrong with being different but when you let other people's opinions supersede your own, you're only a victim of yourself.

[Indon]

I contend that it's up to the freaks, nerds and romantics to not give a collective crap about what the herd thinks of them.

Not caring about being bullied does not make you immune to being bullied, at least, insofar as physical force is concerned.

Mind that not all social interaction is polite and maturely pursued, especially when you're dealing with children.

[North]

I always get confused with the i before e or e before i. Damn English.

[Solo]

That's only a part of it, as well.

People pick on people who are different, and being smarter often counts. Only after individuals are ostracised for being different would they internalize a new social identity independent from their detractors (ie: 'nerd') which leads them to behavior in-keeping for that social identity.

Furthermore, trying to _do_ things with your intelligence, living up to your potential, is only inevitably going to lead to you isolating yourself from the majority. Try to graduate high school early via the GED program? Try to utilize your creativity to produce an actual invention or work of art? These things don't make you friends; if anything, intellectual accomplishment is intimidating.

I was a lot smarter than my peers in highschool, and chose to be a "nerd", but no one picked on me for it.

It probably helped that I was one of the stronger kids in my weightlifting class, though.

[Catch]

Not caring about being bullied does not make you immune to being bullied, at least, insofar as physical force is concerned.

Mind that not all social interaction is polite and maturely pursued, especially when you're dealing with children.

True. My point was that bullies are less likely to target kids that don't provide any enjoyment. Some people advocate being a "tough guy," which is a great way to get pummeled back into your group-established "place." Instead, I point out that when you're no fun to pick on--by not letting teasing and spitballs faze you--the harassment tends to dwindle. Moreover, bullies are more likely to use physical force in response to kids who feebly attempt to stick up for themselves rather than letting it roll off their backs.

"The wind does not break a tree that bends," y'know?

[averagejoe]

People pick on people who are different, and being smarter often counts. Only after individuals are ostracised for being different would they internalize a new social identity independent from their detractors (ie: 'nerd') which leads them to behavior in-keeping for that social identity.

That's not completely right either. People pick on people who are both different and seem uncomfortable with that difference. It is here confidence plays a big part, as well as not acting like the victim (whether you are the victim or not.) It isn't so much the difference itself, but the difference presented as an exploitable weakness.

[Indon]

That's not completely right either. People pick on people who are both different and seem uncomfortable with that difference. It is here confidence plays a big part, as well as not acting like the victim (whether you are the victim or not.) It isn't so much the difference itself, but the difference presented as an exploitable weakness.

I can see how being intimidating would help there, but being confident?

[Ceska]

So I find my self constantly questioning, have I gone to the right school? Is sitting in a class of idiots worth all the criticism about being smart?

No, you are perfect and shouldn't let criticism touch you in any way. :smallamused:

Isn't it funny how people always seem to see logical skills, grammar and spelling as parts of intelligence, but think social traits weren't? Isn't the ability to guess how another person feels and use the appropriate behaviour at the appropriate time just as much a sign of intelligence?

Personally, I think arrogance is a sign of lacking intelligence as well. And I say that as one of the most arrogant people I've ever met.

It's a part of maturity to come to terms with your strengths and weaknesses, knowing that you aren't perfect but at the same time being able to live with your flaws.

[Indon]

Isn't it funny how people always seem to see logical skills, grammar and spelling as parts of intelligence, but think social traits weren't? Isn't the ability to guess how another person feels and use the appropriate behaviour at the appropriate time just as much a sign of intelligence?


Social and emotional capabilities are commonly accepted in scientific and medical circles (when addressed, anyway) to be a seperate, largely unrelated, set of cognitive capabilities, independent from memory, problem solving, object modeling, logic, etc.

This is supported by the fact that while mental and social disabilities can coexist, they do not have to, and in fact have a pretty low instance of coincidence if one were to assume their relation.

[Ceska]

Social and emotional capabilities are commonly accepted in scientific and medical circles (when addressed, anyway) to be a seperate, largely unrelated, set of cognitive capabilities, independent from memory, problem solving, object modeling, logic, etc.
I'll go by this definition, or better the first four.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intelligence


1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
I don't see how this excludes any social traits. You can learn social behaviour just like you can learn grammar, only with more interaction and trial and error. Understanding another person seems not too different from understanding a logical problem to me.


2. manifestation of a high mental capacity
I'll take the high mental capacity as the same capacity as above as this is what I have been taught. Thus it's like above, just that a person who has this is to be perceived as intelligent.


3. the faculty of understanding.
See response to point one.


4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
This is the least conforming with social intelligence, though one could match it with the ability to predict a persons actions from earlier occasions and giving the person a certain trait.


This is supported by the fact that while mental and social disabilities can coexist, they do not have to, and in fact have a pretty low instance of coincidence if one were to assume their relation.
If I understand you correctly this actually supports my personal believes that there is no such thing as Übermenschen and humans of lower intelligence living together but merely aptitudes towards a part of intelligence.

[Indon]

I don't see how this excludes any social traits. You can learn social behaviour just like you can learn grammar, only with more interaction and trial and error. Understanding another person seems not too different from understanding a logical problem to me.


Ants are social creatures without being intelligent at all.

Dogs and Cats are social creatures with capabilities on par with humans while manifesting significantly subhuman intellectual capabilities.

Many apes are social creatures with capabilities on par with humans (and dogs and cats) while manifesting better, but still inferior, intellectual capabilities.


"Manifestation of a high mental capacity" strikes me as a pretty poor definition, as it doesn't say what a 'mental capacity' is. "understanding" is as you say an elaboration on the first, and the fourth definition is actually a different context (example: "Military Intelligence").



If I understand you correctly this actually supports my personal believes that there is no such thing as Übermenschen and humans of lower intelligence living together but merely aptitudes towards a part of intelligence.

I'm personally an adherent to the multiple-intelligences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences) school of neurometrics, which is what your position sounds like, and that social intelligence is a part of intelligence is one of the positions.

However, I don't feel that social capability should be considered an intelligence because other forms of intelligence can be established to have synergy; social capability, however, does not appear to have synergy with established forms of intelligence, save only for deficiencies so severe they affect cognition in general (and are thus mental disabilities in their own right as well as social disabilities).

What I guess I'm saying is that while intelligence may lead to social capability, social capability does not require or affect intelligence, implying that the role of intelligence in socialization is no more than the role of intelligence in any number of other avenues of human capability such as tool usage or language.

[Solo]

Some people advocate being a "tough guy," which is a great way to get pummeled back into your group-established "place."

And yet it does not always work out badly for those who choose to stand up for themselves.


Moreover, bullies are more likely to use physical force in response to kids who feebly attempt to stick up for themselves rather than letting it roll off their backs.

Lesson learned: When you use force, do not do so feebly.

Look, there are many ways to deal with conflicts at school. Sometimes you use diplomacy, sometimes you hit the other guy. Don't dismiss one or the other. I've tried both, and if used properly under the correct conditions, they will work. Just don't use one when the situation calls for the other.

[Ceska]

Ants are social creatures without being intelligent at all.

Dogs and Cats are social creatures with capabilities on par with humans while manifesting significantly subhuman intellectual capabilities.

Many apes are social creatures with capabilities on par with humans (and dogs and cats) while manifesting better, but still inferior, intellectual capabilities.
Can you prove without human ways of measure that they are? Is a person able to make an objective comparison to a highly subjective case. For example, can I personally measure who of us two is more intelligent or is only an objective outsider able to measure it? And what terms does he use, can we both agree on them and his conclusion?

As long as this isn't given I doubt we can jump to conclusions which species is the more intelligent. The ant probably thinks of itself as the smartest of all beings.


However, I don't feel that social capability should be considered an intelligence because other forms of intelligence can be established to have synergy; social capability, however, does not appear to have synergy with established forms of intelligence, save only for deficiencies so severe they affect cognition in general (and are thus mental disabilities in their own right as well as social disabilities).

See, that's where we disagree. To me, intelligence is the ability to apply ones knowledge in a certain situation to the most productive conclusion as well as the ability to acquire said knowledge from previous occasions.


What I guess I'm saying is that while intelligence may lead to social capability, social capability does not require or affect intelligence, implying that the role of intelligence in socialization is no more than the role of intelligence in any number of other avenues of human capability such as tool usage or language.
So you do not need be intelligent to use tools or language? I think I am misunderstanding you here.

Edit: Thanks for making me look up adherent and take notes of it. As one is learning every day, every new vocabulary one knows how to apply is great.