Augmented Subtype

[Skyrender]

I was going back through my old Monster Manuals, and remembered something weird about templates: many of them apply the 'Augmented' subtype, specifically when it changes a creature's type. This subtype tells you what creature features (size of racial Hit Dice, base attack and save bonuses, skill points) you should default to when determining the resulting creature's abilities from its racial levels. In certain cases, however, you could have more than one template that change a creature's type, so what do you do when you've got two or more different templates or features that change your type? For example:

First, you start with a skulk (Races of Destiny), which is a humanoid with the (human) subtype, and 2 racial hit dice.

Next, apply the tauric template (MMII), tossing the skulk's upper half onto, oh, let's say a dire tiger. The type changes to monstrous humanoid (augmented humanoid) (human). According to the tauric template, the racial base attack is that of a monstrous humanoid with 18 racial hit dice (i.e.: +18), but the base saves are those of the skulk's racial hit dice or the cat's, whichever is better (i.e.: +10 across the board).

Next, you apply the half-dragon template, and...

...and this is where I'm not sure what happens.

I know for a fact the resulting freak of nature gains extra natural armor, wings, claws (duh!), a bite, and a breath weapon, and its racial hit dice increase from 18d8 to 18d10. But does is it then a dragon (augmented monstrous humanoid) (human) or a dragon (augmented humanoid) (human)? No matter how you look at it, the base saves are wrong for its total hit dice.


Not really invested in this example, just trying to come up with a way of getting the point across without using obscure edge cases. Oh, wait... anything that involves two different type changes is already gonna be an edge case. Duh.

[Venger]

Your example is fine. A skulk who became tauric skulk/dire tiger who later became half-dragon would be a dragon (augmented humanoid) with the human subtype.

Any time you change from your original type to another type, you gain the augmented subtype. Thus, you will be "new type (augmented old type)." That's all there is to it. Rules on type are freely available on the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm)

There's nothing "wrong" with the example character's saves. Tauric is unusual in affecting your saves. Most templates don't mess around with your saves and few of them (aside from ones that make you undead) have you reroll your hd.

When you change type more than once, generally, you'll only care about the most recent one for the purposes of adjudicating effects.

[Skyrender]

I suppose my main issue is the premise for the augmented subtype itself, or perhaps its poor execution in play. Ostensibly, it's a way of keeping track of what the racial features for the creature are, but so many things mess with said features that it just confuses the issue, instead of helping. Off the top of my head, I can think of six classes (at least!), five templates, and three magic items that can change a creature's type (thus applying the augmented subtype), but also alter the resulting character's features so that the augmented subtype will not do its job properly. I guess I'm just hoping someone else has a good solution for how to deal with this, since it's been driving me crazy.

[Venger]

I suppose my main issue is the premise for the augmented subtype itself, or perhaps its poor execution in play. Ostensibly, it's a way of keeping track of what the racial features for the creature are, but so many things mess with said features that it just confuses the issue, instead of helping. Off the top of my head, I can think of six classes (at least!), five templates, and three magic items that can change a creature's type (thus applying the augmented subtype), but also alter the resulting character's features so that the augmented subtype will not do its job properly. I guess I'm just hoping someone else has a good solution for how to deal with this, since it's been driving me crazy.

You're conflating a couple of different terms. While your traits will usually change when your type changes, your features will almost always stay the same. There are many ways to change type. The augmented subtype doesn't perform any mechanical function, it just tells you the character was not always its current type. What exactly is the problem you're trying to solve? Is there a specific character who undergoes several type changes and you're wondering how to accurately portray its stats?

[Skyrender]

Not specifically, I just was talking with a friend about joining a game the other day, and when I was looking through the books for inspiration on what kind of character I might make, it struck me that the augmented subtype really doesn't serve any actual purpose, save to remind you of what the racial hit dice do for you (HD size, BAB, saves, skill points), and even then, it's often incorrect. I keep trying to wrap my head around the idea, and I keep coming up with more question marks floating over my head than I started with.

Seriously, is there even a reason to keep track of it?

[Venger]

Not specifically, I just was talking with a friend about joining a game the other day, and when I was looking through the books for inspiration on what kind of character I might make, it struck me that the augmented subtype really doesn't serve any actual purpose, save to remind you of what the racial hit dice do for you (HD size, BAB, saves, skill points), and even then, it's often incorrect. I keep trying to wrap my head around the idea, and I keep coming up with more question marks floating over my head than I started with.

Seriously, is there even a reason to keep track of it?

Right. Like I said, the augmented subtype confers no mechanical changes to your guy. It's there to remind you what features you keep. You keep track of it because that's just how type is written when you change type. It also helps you keep track of everything if you go through a change, like explaining why the extra feat iss there if you're a lich who started out as a human for example