Languages

[Particle_Man]

Aside from training, what else gives you languages? I figure a half elf Druid/thief with linguist and prodigy feats and the sage background would have a lot. What have I missed?

[iTreeby]

Ranger can give a monster language. Also you could hypothetically make a custom background that gives more languages than sage does.

[Naanomi]

Also you could hypothetically make a custom background that gives more languages than sage does.
Not really, each only gets two languages/tools/instruments/games

A few subclasses get some languages... Dragon and Tempest Sorcerer; Knowledge Cleric

[iTreeby]

Not really, each only gets two languages/tools/instruments/games

A few subclasses get some languages... Dragon and Tempest Sorcerer; Knowledge Cleric

OH nevermind, I guess you can't make a background that gets a universal trade language or a special translation ability, Naanomi says so.

[Xihirli]

Okay, that was needlessly rude.

Naanomi correctly pointed out that backgrounds grant up to two languages, and no published backgrounds use their background feature to break this rule (i.e., Hermit doesn't grant Druidic, Criminal doesn't grant Thieves' Cant).

Sure, you could push for a custom background feature that grants you a language, but don't mistake Naanomi pointing out that your solution doesn't exist within the rules of the game for her saying that houserules don't exist.

Also, Common is the closest there is to a universal trade language, and I'm not sure what you think a translation ability would be other than learning the language you need to translate.

[Naanomi]

The Anthropologist background allows some communication without language; and I would (have) allowed Hermit secret to be Druidic... but nothing explicit in the books about actual languages beyond two from backgrounds that wouldn’t explicitly be DM caveat territory

[Lunali]

Not really learning languages, but level 13 monk can understand all spoken language and speak to anyone that can understand a language.

[Maelynn]

There are magic items that allow you to speak a language. Belt of Dwarvenkind grants Dwarvish to any non-Dwarf. A Moonblade has random properties, if you roll 41-80 then speaking a language is one of the options.

[iTreeby]

Okay, that was needlessly rude.


Sure, you could push for a custom background feature that grants you a language, but don't mistake Naanomi pointing out that your solution doesn't exist within the rules of the game for her saying that houserules don't exist.

Also, Common is the closest there is to a universal trade language, and I'm not sure what you think a translation ability would be other than learning the language you need to translate.

On page 127 of my players handbook it says "if you can't find a feature that matches your desired background work with your dm to create one."

The rules say you are supposed to have a feature that makes sense for your background.

As for how that would work, maybe it only let's you translate written languages. Maybe you can only communicate verbally with a specific vocabulary limited to commodities prices and language specific to trading situations. Maybe you become passable at a language after a certain period of time living amongst a giving population but only for as long as you spend downtime in an area with a high population of speakers.

So unless you have adventure league restrictions you should be able to get a relavant background ability of some sort.

[Laserlight]

OH nevermind, I guess you can't make a background that gets a universal trade language

You mean, like Common?

[iTreeby]

You mean, like Common?
Like common, except works for races that don't speek common but do have spoken language perhaps.

[Particle_Man]

Not sure a background should give the abilities of a 13th level monk or 10th level diviner wizard though.

Hmmm, looks like an Empyrean speaks all languages. Neat trick. I assume that doesn’t include Druidic.

[Naanomi]

Hmmm, looks like an Empyrean speaks all languages. Neat trick. I assume that doesn’t include Druidic.
Treants speak Druidic, so a Ranger with racial enemy: Plant should be able to as well

[JackPhoenix]

Like common, except works for races that don't speek common but do have spoken language perhaps.

What makes you think that creatures that can't be bothered to learn common would bother to learn different "universal trade language"?

[PhantomSoul]

Like common, except works for races that don't speek common but do have spoken language perhaps.

(If this were to be a thing you wanted, which isn't in the OP so it might be later musing and not the goal...)
Are you homebrew-adding that language to all creatures/races? If so and you're effectively just making another common[1], then you could just give that alternative common a name and you're set. Or it might be easier to broaden what "common" is, and add that to all creatures with a language. (If it's so universal, it seems odd for only one background to be granting it, when basically all creatures/races probably know it.) It might be useful to start from what the desired fiction is and work back to that, but the more widespread the language would be, the more you'd expect everyone or a large proportion of people to have it without a specific (mechanical) background... like for common.


[1] Which is fine -- for my world common is just the historically local pidgin and isn't actually universal, so the other continent on the map has a different common.

[iTreeby]

What makes you think that creatures that can't be bothered to learn common would bother to learn different "universal trade language"?

Look at the anthropologist feature. It's basically more powerful than the ability I proposed.

[PhantomSoul]

Look at the anthropologist feature. It's basically more powerful than the ability I proposed.

For people to be able to look at it without presupposing them having the specific non-core book:


Feature: Adept Linguist
You can communicate with humanoids who don’t speak any language you know. You must observe the humanoids interacting with one another for at least 1 day, after which you learn a handful of important words, expressions, and gestures—enough to communicate on a rudimentary level.


This one seems more limited (and circumscribed) than what you appear to be suggesting, but maybe it's that I'm not seeing/remembering you giving background features for your idea, and maybe in your mind you've got details/restrictions I'm not seeing. There's the one post with a series of alternatives, but I'm not seeing a post where you suggest the feature you have in mind, which is probably the required step to be able to compare features and decide potency.

[JackPhoenix]

Look at the anthropologist feature. It's basically more powerful than the ability I proposed.

It has nothing to do with your proposal. It doesn't matter what languages you speak if the creature you want to talk with doesn't also speak it. Knowledge of "universal trade language" won't help you talk to creature that only knows its own racial language. Unless "universal trade language" consists of pointing at the thing you want to buy and then counting the coins on your fingers, which doesn't really lend itself to any complex communication.

[Nagog]

Not really, each only gets two languages/tools/instruments/games

A few subclasses get some languages... Dragon and Tempest Sorcerer; Knowledge Cleric


Okay, that was needlessly rude.

Naanomi correctly pointed out that backgrounds grant up to two languages, and no published backgrounds use their background feature to break this rule (i.e., Hermit doesn't grant Druidic, Criminal doesn't grant Thieves' Cant).

Sure, you could push for a custom background feature that grants you a language, but don't mistake Naanomi pointing out that your solution doesn't exist within the rules of the game for her saying that houserules don't exist.

Also, Common is the closest there is to a universal trade language, and I'm not sure what you think a translation ability would be other than learning the language you need to translate.


I believe they were saying they could make a custom background that has more languages as a background feature. Naanomi simply stating "No that isn't allowed to be in your custom homebrew background" was pointlessly rude as well. They could have instead stated "Most RAW backgrounds include 2 languages or other proficiencies" rather than piss on their parade and claim that they aren't allowed to do something with their homebrew.

As for the actual issue this thread is for, I believe the Monk class feature has already been mentioned, but another house rule I've seen used is that if you have the Linguist feat, you can learn additional languages (past what the feat offers) equal to your Int modifier. This grants you up to 8 languages with a single feat, if you have maxed Int. Considering the impact languages actually have in play, I feel this house rule makes the Linguist feat more appealing without making it overpowered. I'd place it's utility alongside things like Magic Initiate and Prodigy. Useful, but not constantly.

[Naanomi]

I would argue that background features have never (yet, in either official backgrounds or AL approved non-book backgrounds) granted more skills than the 2/2, including languages; and the rules on custom backgrounds also point to two languages... and of course a GM can customize a background to do whatever they like, because they can customize any part of the game however they like... but there is nothing published that indicates ‘speaking more languages’ in the formal sense the rules uses that concept (which with a very few exceptions tend to be very social/setting benefits and few mechanical benefits)

If someone asked how to get more spells on their Spell Book, I wouldn’t recommend them asking their GM for a ‘wizard college graduate’ background to add them, even if I could imagine a scenario where such a thing happened... there just isn’t anything present in the rules that guide us to thinking that way (beyond the ‘GMs can do what they want’ stuff that... is GM dependent in a way that doesn’t lend itself well to discussion)

[iTreeby]

What languages the npcs use is entirely dm fiat to begin with. Gaining abilities like the forest gnomes ability to speak with small animals or the previously mentioned anthropologist ability are perhaps more useful than actually having an additional "language", I suppose telepathic communication is possibly the best quasi-language. But yes, If you only care about how many languages you can fluently speak read and write then, you can only pick up two from a background.

I'm not suggesting that you make a background feature that gives more than two languages but you can definitely get a feature that more closely relates to communication than the sage background feature.

[Naanomi]

If the stated goal is ‘communicate with anything’ than magic of some sort is the best solution... too many fringe languages out there even with just published material to master them all... but the goal was ‘accumulate languages known’

[iTreeby]

If the stated goal is ‘communicate with anything’ than magic of some sort is the best solution... too many fringe languages out there even with just published material to master them all... but the goal was ‘accumulate languages known’

I guess communication with npcs is just a secondary benifit of having a language. How presumptuous of me to assume that the OP wanted to use the languages to communicate in a game. Obviously this thread is pure whiteroom theory crafting and my supposition regarding backgrounds was out of line.

[JumboWheat01]

A Half-elf Druid/Rogue/Knowledge Cleric with Sage (or similar) background and linguist would give you Common + Elven + Druidic + Thieves Cant + Eight languages of your choice.

At that point, you're prolly better off just being someone who can cast Tongues or similar spells. Or being an Elf with 700ish years of life to learn languages through slow training.

[Amechra]

This list doesn't cover stuff like Tongue of the Sun and Moon or Tongues, which let you speak to anything with a language. It also doesn't cover stuff like Speak With Animals and similar effects. Special mention goes to GOO Warlocks, who can use their telepathy to communicate with any creature with one or more languages - cool. but not what we're looking for.

Backgrounds
• The following backgrounds give one bonus language: Archaeologist, Far Traveler, Guild Artisan, Haunted One, Hermit, Inheritor, Noble, and Outlander.
• The following backgrounds give two bonus languages: Acolyte, City Watch, Cloistered Scholar, Courtier, Guild Merchant, and Sage.
• The Anthropologist background gives you two bonus languages (and that handy "tourist speech" trick²)

Classes
• Rogue 1 and Druid 1 both give unique languages.
• Ranger 1¹ and Fighter (Samurai) 3 give you a bonus language.
• Sorcerer (Draconic) 1 gives you Draconic.
• Sorcerer (Divine Soul) 1 gives you Celestial.
• Cleric (Knowledge) 1 and Rogue (Mastermind) 3 give you two bonus languages.
• Sorcerer (Storm) 1 gives you Primordial (lets you speak Auran, Aquan, Ignan, and Terran), for a whopping four languages.

Feats
• The Linguist feat gives you three bonus languages.
• The Prodigy feat gives you a bonus language (human, half-elf, and half-orc only)

Races
To save time, I'm only listing races that don't start off with two languages.
• Warforged only speak Common, apparently. Poor Warforged.
• Aarakocra start with Common, Aarakocra, and Auran.
• Firbolg start with Common, Elvish, and Giant.
• Sea Elves start with Common, Elvish, and Aquan.
• Yuan-Ti start with Common, Abyssal, and Draconic.
• Half Elves and High Elves both start with Common, Elvish, and a third language of their choice.
• Kalashtar start with Common, Quori, and a third language of their choice.
• Changelings start with Common and two other languages of their choice.
• Genasi and Tritons start with Common and Primordial, meaning they effectively start with five languages.

So it looks like we have two answers for really pushing the number of languages you know. If we assume that you can't just pick up Primordial as a free language pick, your best bet is a Variant Human Anthropologist Storm Sorcerer 1/Mastermind Rogue 4 with the Linguist and Prodigy feats, who effectively knows 13 languages (Common, Auran, Aquan, Ignan, Terran, Thieves Cant, and 7 others).

If you can pick it up as one of your free picks, we want a Half-Elf Anthropologist Knowledge Cleric 1/Mastermind Rogue 8 with Linguist and Prodigy, who sits at 15 languages (Common, Auran, Aquan, Elvish, Ignan, Terran, Thieves Cant, and 8 others).

Am I missing anything?



Oh, right, you can learn a new language as a downtime activity (costs 250gp and a boatload of time), making all of the above completely pointless. :smallbiggrin:

¹ It's not a fully free choice, but with some finagling you can use it to get almost any language.
² Make someone understand you by speaking slowly and loudly. It always works!³
³ It really doesn't.

[JumboWheat01]

Okay, fifteen languages without the help of spells or similar things is pretty darn impressive.

[Beleriphon]

If you can pick it up as one of your free picks, we want a Half-Elf Anthropologist Knowledge Cleric 1/Mastermind Rogue 8 with Linguist and Prodigy, who sits at 15 languages (Common, Auran, Aquan, Elvish, Ignan, Terran, Thieves Cant, and 8 others).

Am I missing anything?

I'm not actually sure there are more than 15 languages in PHB. Playing in Forgotten Realms, gets you nearly fifty human languages though.

[Amechra]

Okay, fifteen languages without the help of spells or similar things is pretty darn impressive.

For once, it's a record that compares favorably to what most people can do in the real world - there are people who can speak way more, but they're incredibly rare. The average person caps out at 6 languages.

Turns out you're way better at languages than you think you are.

---

As a side note, I'm kinda bugged that you can't "half-know" languages in D&D - for example, I can sorta read French and Italian thanks to knowing Spanish and (a little bit of) Latin. Wouldn't it be neat if your Dwarf could puzzle out text written in Orc (which uses the same alphabet as Dwarvish)?

[Particle_Man]

I'm not actually sure there are more than 15 languages in PHB. Playing in Forgotten Realms, gets you nearly fifty human languages though.

The MM supplies more, like modron, slaadi, and gith.

[Amechra]

I'm not actually sure there are more than 15 languages in PHB. Playing in Forgotten Realms, gets you nearly fifty human languages though.

Clearly you use at least one of your slots to take Giant Elk.

Best language.

[Maelynn]

I'm not actually sure there are more than 15 languages in PHB. Playing in Forgotten Realms, gets you nearly fifty human languages though.

In the standard PHB there's 18 languages (8 standard, 8 exotic, 2 restricted). Some subraces have their own language (Drow), but this doesn't seem to be available for PCs - not even those who play a Drow. And in general, monster languages (gnoll, slaadi, grell, etc) aren't available either, since they're spoken only by the monsters of that race and aren't taught to others. A DM could of course decide to rule differently and allow PCs to pick up the sub- and monster languages, but it's their decision and not something freely available to the player.

Standard:

Common
Dwarvish
Elvish
Giant
Gnomish
Goblin
Halfling
Orc

Exotic:

Abyssal
Celestial
Draconic
Deep Speech
Infernal
Primordial
Sylvan
Undercommon

Restricted:

Druidic
Thieves' Cant

----------

Mordenkainen:

Gith

Elemental Evil:

Aarakocra

Swordcoast:

Various Human Languages based on ethnicity/nation:

Arkaiun = Dambrathan
Bedine = Midani
Calimsh!te = Alzhedo
Chondathan = Chondathan
Damaran = Damaran
Ffolk = Waelan
Gur = Guran
Halruaan = Halruaan
Illuskan = Illuskan
Imaskari = Roushoum
Mulan = Chessentan, Mulhorandi, Untheric, or Thayan
Nar = Damaran
Rashemi = Rashemi
Shaaran = Shaaran
Shou = Shou
Tethyrian = Chondathan
Tuigan = Tuigan
Turami = Turmic
Ulutiun = Uluik

Eberron:

Quori
Riedran

Ravnica:

Kraul
Loxodon
Merfolk
Minotaur
Sphinx
Vedalken

[Particle_Man]

Clearly you use at least one of your slots to take Giant Elk.

Best language.

It certainly puts a new perspective on the poem “‘Twas the Night Before Christmas” in that language.

[Laserlight]

As a side note, I'm kinda bugged that you can't "half-know" languages in D&D - for example, I can sorta read French and Italian thanks to knowing Spanish and (a little bit of) Latin. Wouldn't it be neat if your Dwarf could puzzle out text written in Orc (which uses the same alphabet as Dwarvish)?

It bugs me too. I read French enough to get around in Paris, but I only understand a little spoken French.

On the other hand, it would be easy enough to retrofit a language skill tree into the game. Each language you get from background actually gives you X points. You spend points to buy Speak, Hear, Read, and Write in each language. Points would start at "recognize it / speak a few basic words slowly" up to "compose literature using native idioms and structure".

[Amechra]

It bugs me too. I read French enough to get around in Paris, but I only understand a little spoken French.

On the other hand, it would be easy enough to retrofit a language skill tree into the game. Each language you get from background actually gives you X points. You spend points to buy Speak, Hear, Read, and Write in each language. Points would start at "recognize it / speak a few basic words slowly" up to "compose literature using native idioms and structure".

It could be interesting if you tied backgrounds into that - like, a Sage and a Courtier might both know two extra languages, but the Courtier is fluent in them for the purposes of talking with people, while the Sage knows them because they read through dusty tomes. Like how in the real world studying French in school and learning it on the streets of Paris would give you different, overlapping fluencies in the language.

[Laserlight]

In one campaign I ran, a character spoke "dockside gutter French" as her native language, and was marginally fluent in standard French. All the other characters spoke English, which made party communication tricky.
The paladin spoke French, but he usually felt that listening to her French was a venial sin.

[jjordan]

It bugs me too. I read French enough to get around in Paris, but I only understand a little spoken French.

On the other hand, it would be easy enough to retrofit a language skill tree into the game. Each language you get from background actually gives you X points. You spend points to buy Speak, Hear, Read, and Write in each language. Points would start at "recognize it / speak a few basic words slowly" up to "compose literature using native idioms and structure".Rolemaster dealt with the issue by discriminating between written and spoken knowledge of a language and assigning levels to each. In much the same way the Defense Language Institute grades language proficiency. A language tree would be nice in such a situation. I think most people just don't want to track that much information or see a value in doing so. How much orcish do you need to speak to kill the orcs? :)

[Naanomi]

Monster Languages include...

Blink Dog (MM)
Bullywug (MM)
Giant Eagle (MM)
Giant Elk (MM)
Giant Owl (MM)
Gnoll (MM)
Grell (MM)
Grung (VGtM)
Hook Horror (MM)
Kruthik (MToF)
Modron (MM)
Otyugh (MM)
Sahuagin (MM)
Slaad (MM)
Sphinx (MM)
Thri-kreen (MM)
Tlincalli (VGtM)
Troglodyte (MM)
Umber Hulk (MM)
Vegepygmy (VGtM)
Winter Wolf (MM)
Worg (MM)
Yeti (MM)

Attuning yourself to the Book of Vile Darkness also lets you speak ‘dark speech ‘

[Laserlight]

Rolemaster dealt with the issue by discriminating between written and spoken knowledge of a language and assigning levels to each. In much the same way the Defense Language Institute grades language proficiency. A language tree would be nice in such a situation. I think most people just don't want to track that much information or see a value in doing so. How much orcish do you need to speak to kill the orcs? :)

Ah, but if you want to explain to the orcs that you're the Special Troubleshooters that the Master requested, and one of them should take you to the Master while the rest stay on watch here at the outpost....then you might need to be fluent. (My character was a very persuasive swashbuckler. It was a bit weird, starting with the boss fight and working our way out...but it was fun)

[Waterdeep Merch]

I let anyone who knows a language with a related alphabet attempt to translate what they hear/read by making an Intelligence + Proficiency ability check against a DC of 10 for common phrases, 15 for everyday speech, and 20 for scholarly/complex debates/works. Yes, this does allow bards specifically to get the gist of things regardless of languages. I consider that a feature, not a bug.

After all, it's a language 'proficiency'. Might as well have it match the rest of the system!

[Maelynn]

I let anyone who knows a language with a related alphabet attempt to translate what they hear/read by making an Intelligence + Proficiency ability check against a DC of 10 for common phrases, 15 for everyday speech, and 20 for scholarly/complex debates/works. Yes, this does allow bards specifically to get the gist of things regardless of languages. I consider that a feature, not a bug.

After all, it's a language 'proficiency'. Might as well have it match the rest of the system!

I've done a similar thing, just the other way around.

I had a chest with a single word written on it in Netherese. The PC knew Draconic (uses the same script) and casts Comprehend Languages. I gave her 3 possible translations of the word, since there was no context that would allow her to determine the correct meaning. :smallamused:

[Waterdeep Merch]

I've done a similar thing, just the other way around.

I had a chest with a single word written on it in Netherese. The PC knew Draconic (uses the same script) and casts Comprehend Languages. I gave her 3 possible translations of the word, since there was no context that would allow her to determine the correct meaning. :smallamused:
That is hilarious. That should probably be a pretty common problem with anything using dwarvish script, since it's a runic alphabet and keeps to short words. Never thought about it.