Strahd Von Zarovich Seducing my PC

[NoxHunter]

Hey guys, just asking for advice.
Currently my party and I are resting in the Jade Temple after visiting Strahd's Castle and my Divination Wizard succesfully landing the killing blow on the Lich Khazan and claiming his staff of power as mine.
While meditaiting (Im a high elf so no need for sleep) Strahd appears only to me telling me he didn't bring me to Barovia to be a play thing but to test me since he is in search for a new powerful General, claiming I've shown my strengh and potential killing a powerful linch many years older and with more knowlege than the current version of me.
He offers me possesion of the Jade Temple's library and transforming me into a Lich to have the time to actually acquiere all possible knowlege if I help him in the final encounter, bassically betray my party and voluntarily join forces with Strahd, he wants me to have this power so I as his new general lich find a way to return Strahd's kingdom to Faerum, this will obviously lead to a possible new homebrew campaing.

Now, I know Strahd is not to be trusted but that's just the real life me, my Wizard is not sure about it also he is hungry for knowlege so the offer is very tempting to him, is literally a pact with the devil. This information was not given to me in the table, it was a phone call from my DM, so my party has no idea and If I betray them will actually be a surprise and a great plot twist but also may anger my party and cause real life conflict, so any comments on how to handle it?

[Waterdeep Merch]

Don't say anything about it to the party. Do subtle things to aid Strahd without revealing yourself, or act overly friendly to keep the party's trust. Then play out a troubled conscience as the big confrontation starts looming. Agree to betray the party, start taking some actions, but! You can't bring yourself to do it. You switch back in the nick of time to save the party.

I'm shocked this specific trope essentially never gets used by players, only NPC's. It's dripping with angst.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hey guys, just asking for advice.
Currently my party and I are resting in the Jade Temple after visiting Strahd's Castle and my Divination Wizard succesfully landing the killing blow on the Lich Khazan and claiming his staff of power as mine.
While meditaiting (Im a high elf so no need for sleep) Strahd appears only to me telling me he didn't bring me to Barovia to be a play thing but to test me since he is in search for a new powerful General, claiming I've shown my strengh and potential killing a powerful linch many years older and with more knowlege than the current version of me.
He offers me possesion of the Jade Temple's library and transforming me into a Lich to have the time to actually acquiere all possible knowlege if I help him in the final encounter, bassically betray my party and voluntarily join forces with Strahd, he wants me to have this power so I as his new general lich find a way to return Strahd's kingdom to Faerum, this will obviously lead to a possible new homebrew campaing.

Now, I know Strahd is not to be trusted but that's just the real life me, my Wizard is not sure about it also he is hungry for knowlege so the offer is very tempting to him, is literally a pact with the devil. This information was not given to me in the table, it was a phone call from my DM, so my party has no idea and If I betray them will actually be a surprise and a great plot twist but also may anger my party and cause real life conflict, so any comments on how to handle it?

You got three options:

Tell him to shove it.
Join the Dark Side.
Be a double agent (Join him, then BACKSTAB THE JERK)


If you're going with Option 2 or 3, talk to your DM about your concerns. If I were the DM, I'd have the player be demanded to fulfill specific requests that help your new Master, ones that seem darksided from the perspective of your allies.

See, players like surprises, but they don't like jumpscares. There's a difference. You can be surprised that the boulder you're running from is an illusion. You don't want to be jumpscared by a trapdoor trap you wouldn't have seen coming. Players need to be able to interact with their fates and their surroundings, and that includes things like your descent into darkness. So give them hints. When everyone's investigating part of a haunted mansion, you wander off to collect a relic on behalf of Strahd. Or maybe you refuse to attack key enemies. You do a number of things that appear...suspicious.

You want your reveal to be an "Ah HAH" moment, not a "Wait, really?" moment.

[truemane]

I would tread carefully here. How well this all works depends a lot on the players at your table. If you're the kind of group where some conflict and some PvP and some inter-PC tension is fun and good times, then it could go well. If they're not that kind of group, then it could very well cause long-lasting problems no matter how you handle it.

I, for example, don't enjoy tabletop games where the PC's are working at cross-purposes. Nothing against them or the people that enjoy them, life's a rich mosaic, but I don't play games like that in person. I am, however, all the way into those kinds of stories when everyone knows about them and opts in to playing along. I have friends who are the opposite. So a lot depends on the people.

Just remember that you don't go with 'what my character would do.' You make the choices, not your character. Go with the option that makes the better story, the more interesting experience, the one you think your group will make the most of.

[Man_Over_Game]

I would tread carefully here. How well this all works depends a lot on the players at your table. If you're the kind of group where some conflict and some PvP and some inter-PC tension is fun and good times, then it could go well. If they're not that kind of group, then it could very well cause long-lasting problems no matter how you handle it.

I, for example, don't enjoy tabletop games where the PC's are working at cross-purposes. Nothing against them or the people that enjoy them, life's a rich mosaic, but I don't play games like that in person. I am, however, all the way into those kinds of stories when everyone knows about them and opts in to playing along. I have friends who are the opposite. So a lot depends on the people.

Just remember that you don't go with 'what my character would do.' You make the choices, not your character. Go with the option that makes the better story, the more interesting experience, the one you think your group will make the most of.

To be fair, though, this is Curse of Strahd. If you haven't cycled out the characters in your roster at least 3 times, you're playing it wrong.

[NoxHunter]

You got three options:

Tell him to shove it.
Join the Dark Side.
Be a double agent (Join him, then BACKSTAB THE JERK)


If you're going with Option 2 or 3, talk to your DM about your concerns. If I were the DM, I'd have the player be demanded to fulfill specific requests that help your new Master, ones that seem darksided from the perspective of your allies.

See, players like surprises, but they don't like jumpscares. There's a difference. You can be surprised that the boulder you're running from is an illusion. You don't want to be jumpscared by a trapdoor trap you wouldn't have seen coming. Players need to be able to interact with their fates and their surroundings, and that includes things like your descent into darkness. So give them hints. When everyone's investigating part of a haunted mansion, you wander off to collect a relic on behalf of Strahd. Or maybe you refuse to attack key enemies. You do a number of things that appear...suspicious.

You want your reveal to be an "Ah HAH" moment, not a "Wait, really?" moment.

I was actually thinking option 2, Strahd dones't want me to reply to him and dont make it obvious, he needs me to keep doing my thing and help my party, the only thing he has asked so far to show that I will join him is that when we encounter his heart I do not attack it, kill or hold undead from attaking my party its fine as long as I personally don't harm the heart and if possible provoque accidents so my party miss their attacks or maybe even the ocasional AoE damage with some "accidental" damage to other pcs.

[NoxHunter]

Don't say anything about it to the party. Do subtle things to aid Strahd without revealing yourself, or act overly friendly to keep the party's trust. Then play out a troubled conscience as the big confrontation starts looming. Agree to betray the party, start taking some actions, but! You can't bring yourself to do it. You switch back in the nick of time to save the party.

I'm shocked this specific trope essentially never gets used by players, only NPC's. It's dripping with angst.

Yeah, Im not saying word. But would be giving hints of possible betrayal, the question is, if you were a PC in this campaing would take personally the fact that your party memeber joins the BBEG?

[Man_Over_Game]

I was actually thinking option 2, Strahd dones't want me to reply to him and dont make it obvious, he needs me to keep doing my thing and help my party, the only thing he has asked so far to show that I will join him is that when we encounter his heart I do not attack it, kill or hold undead from attaking my party its fine as long as I personally don't harm the heart and if possible provoque accidents so my party miss their attacks or maybe even the ocasional AoE damage with some "accidental" damage to other pcs.

The problem with that is that then the other players generally won't have any interaction with this kind of event.

Say you had an NPC with you who was helping you get to Strahd, and at the very last second, decides to turn around and stab your Cleric in the back.

Would it have been better if the NPC gave small hints of his treachery throughout the campaign, or that the NPC did less against the players in order to keep his true agenda safe?

Most people would actually say the first of the two is more fun to play with. The fact is, the game isn't about you. It's about a group of people who want to enjoy a game together. And that might mean betrayal, but that also means that their decisions should matter too.

Yes, playing it subtle will mean that you're not acting out against the players as much, but it also means that the other players aren't allowed to pick up on what's going on, interact with your relationship with Strahd, or pull you back into the light.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From another perspective:

You walk into a building, someone runs out screaming that a bomb is going to blow up in 5 minutes.

You walk into a building. The DM starts counting down the bomb, of which you're not aware of, that blows up in 30 minutes.

Which is more fun at a table?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A good rule of thumb for DMs to determine when really bad things happen to players: They need to deserve it.

And there's two options for determining what constitutes someone "deserving" punishment:

Playing poorly accidentally (DM threw 5 clues at the players, informing them how powerful the lich was, and they didn't investigate any of them)
Making educated, bad decisions (DM told the players how powerful that lich was after piecing together the clues, and they decided to fight it anyway)


Of course, you can make up more reasons, but generally it falls into one of those two slots.

As of right now, your betrayal fits neither of these criteria, as they'd not have the tools needed to recognize and stop your actions, and it wasn't because of something that the party chose to do to you.

[NoxHunter]

I would tread carefully here. How well this all works depends a lot on the players at your table. If you're the kind of group where some conflict and some PvP and some inter-PC tension is fun and good times, then it could go well. If they're not that kind of group, then it could very well cause long-lasting problems no matter how you handle it.

I, for example, don't enjoy tabletop games where the PC's are working at cross-purposes. Nothing against them or the people that enjoy them, life's a rich mosaic, but I don't play games like that in person. I am, however, all the way into those kinds of stories when everyone knows about them and opts in to playing along. I have friends who are the opposite. So a lot depends on the people.

Just remember that you don't go with 'what my character would do.' You make the choices, not your character. Go with the option that makes the better story, the more interesting experience, the one you think your group will make the most of.

Thanks for the advice, well my party has some ocasional tension betwen pcs, plus theres a vengance paladin who doesnt care harming his party if he gets to kill what he wants to kill. But there are other player that losing take it personal, srahd already killed the party when we try to ambush him we were revived by the Deva in barovia as a thanks for a favor we did for him, but 2 players were really md when they died so im sure at least those 2 player wont take kindly the betrayal, by the way our party is of 7 players, we are a big group.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Hey guys, just asking for advice.
Currently my party and I are resting in the Jade Temple after visiting Strahd's Castle and my Divination Wizard succesfully landing the killing blow on the Lich Khazan and claiming his staff of power as mine.
While meditaiting (Im a high elf so no need for sleep) Strahd appears only to me telling me he didn't bring me to Barovia to be a play thing but to test me since he is in search for a new powerful General, claiming I've shown my strengh and potential killing a powerful linch many years older and with more knowlege than the current version of me.
He offers me possesion of the Jade Temple's library and transforming me into a Lich to have the time to actually acquiere all possible knowlege if I help him in the final encounter, bassically betray my party and voluntarily join forces with Strahd, he wants me to have this power so I as his new general lich find a way to return Strahd's kingdom to Faerum, this will obviously lead to a possible new homebrew campaing.

Now, I know Strahd is not to be trusted but that's just the real life me, my Wizard is not sure about it also he is hungry for knowlege so the offer is very tempting to him, is literally a pact with the devil. This information was not given to me in the table, it was a phone call from my DM, so my party has no idea and If I betray them will actually be a surprise and a great plot twist but also may anger my party and cause real life conflict, so any comments on how to handle it?

You never know if Strahd is fixing to double cross you or what. Strahd does seem to have a long term plan and all.

[NoxHunter]

The problem with that is that then the other players generally won't have any interaction with this kind of event.

Say you had an NPC with you who was helping you get to Strahd, and at the very last second, decides to turn around and stab your Cleric in the back.

Would it have been better if the NPC gave small hints of his treachery throughout the campaign, or that the NPC did less against the players in order to keep his true agenda safe?

Most people would actually say the first of the two is more fun to play with. The fact is, the game isn't about you. It's about a group of people who want to enjoy a game together. And that might mean betrayal, but that also means that their decisions should matter too.

Yes, playing it subtle will mean that you're not acting out against the players as much, but it also means that the other players aren't allowed to pick up on what's going on, interact with your relationship with Strahd, or pull you back into the light.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From another perspective:

You walk into a building, someone runs out screaming that a bomb is going to blow up in 5 minutes.

You walk into a building. The DM starts counting down the bomb, of which you're not aware of, that blows up in 30 minutes.

Which is more fun at a table?

You make a very interesting point, and to be honest theres no garantee that strahd keeps his promises maybe strahd and myself end up killing the party and he just turns to me and kills me too, also theres no garantee that I am the only party member strahd reached to, he may made the same offer to our vengance paladin (knowing the paladin player he would take the offer right away lol) And strahd's plan is just harm us from within, which I like that too, I play interested in a great story and this offer makes me think it would make a great one.

[Man_Over_Game]

You make a very interesting point, and to be honest theres no garantee that strahd keeps his promises maybe strahd and myself end up killing the party and he just turns to me and kills me too, also theres no garantee that I am the only party member strahd reached to, he may made the same offer to our vengance paladin (knowing the paladin player he would take the offer right away lol) And strahd's plan is just harm us from within, which I like that too, I play interested in a great story and this offer makes me think it would make a great one.

Sure, and I can't really blame you. You're just playing the game. Generally speaking, a Player should be expected to take every option he's allowed to take.

More, though, this should be information for the DM. It shouldn't be your duty to reveal your secrets to other players at the table, especially since they're of the DM's creation in the first place.

So either your DM has a plan and you trust him to do well with that plan, or he should consider some of the mentions on this thread. From the sound of things, though, it seems like your DM has it covered, as we've only heard things from your perspective.

For example, your betrayal might not be so surprising if literally everyone was given a bargain for power. A well-known Pikachu meme comes to mind.

[Nagog]

Is it possible to eventually betray Strahd? Use the power and knowledge he gives you against him. All in all, I applaud your DM for this twist. If you feel your character would betray the party in search of knowledge, go for it. I find betrayal in the party to be a wonderful way to improve the narrative, and if your character still has ties and trusts the party, perhaps he would try to enlist other party members to help him as well. Could be quite fun to split the party against each other rather than just one individual betraying the rest. If you think the DM would be OK with it, perhaps enlist these characters outside of game like the DM did you.

[Man_Over_Game]

Is it possible to eventually betray Strahd? Use the power and knowledge he gives you against him. All in all, I applaud your DM for this twist. If you feel your character would betray the party in search of knowledge, go for it. I find betrayal in the party to be a wonderful way to improve the narrative, and if your character still has ties and trusts the party, perhaps he would try to enlist other party members to help him as well. Could be quite fun to split the party against each other rather than just one individual betraying the rest. If you think the DM would be OK with it, perhaps enlist these characters outside of game like the DM did you.

Strahd is incredibly paranoid and resourceful. You aren't his first rodeo, and he knows that you'd need a group in order to take him on. The only way I could ever see someone betray Strahd is if an entire group was able to convince him, and REALLY convince him, that they're all on his side, and then trust each other to turn on him.

I'm talking, Super Dark Edgelord of the Vengeance Paladin levels of commitment. If a whole party of dark paladins show up, pledge to be his four horsemen, murdered several groups of would-be heroes and sought out several relics for Strahd and personally handed them to him rather than using them against him, I think that'd be enough for "betrayal" to be accomplished.

You need him to be surprised by your commitment, to the point where he believes you're STUPIDLY loyal, not just circumstancially so. Where your best chance to take him was when you all had relics in your hands, and you decided to throw away your best chance to overthrow him, and he believes that you're either too stupid or too weak to worry about.

Anything less than that is simply Strahd's Contingency Plan #27. That is, he's already accounted for that.

[NoxHunter]

Sure, and I can't really blame you. You're just playing the game. Generally speaking, a Player should be expected to take every option he's allowed to take.

More, though, this should be information for the DM. It shouldn't be your duty to reveal your secrets to other players at the table, especially since they're of the DM's creation in the first place.

So either your DM has a plan and you trust him to do well with that plan, or he should consider some of the mentions on this thread. From the sound of things, though, it seems like your DM has it covered, as we've only heard things from your perspective.

For example, your betrayal might not be so surprising if literally everyone was given a bargain for power. A well-known Pikachu meme comes to mind.

Correct, I only speak through my perspective and I'm overthinking it since I trust the DM has already all covered. Im just a sucker for good plot and plot twist so this may be the reason of my overthinking.

[Pelle]

Something like this happened when we (my group) were young. One player was secretly a traitor, agreed on with the DM. And the party wasn't given a chance to discover it and was easily wiped. Very anticlimatic, and the whole campaign felt like a waste, having played under false pretenses, though it wasn’t that long. Your group may feel different though.

Accepting the deal with Strahd sounds fun to me with either these two options:
- turn the character into an NPC, and make a new one instead (probably not a good option if it wants to keep up with the party)
- or play secretly just like a DM, with the goal of having your character fail. Drop lots of clues and make sure the other players will understand that he is a traitor, and has a good chance to take him down. If they never discover, or are killed because of it, you have messed up.

[Man_Over_Game]

Something like this happened when we (my group) were young. One player was secretly a traitor, agreed on with the DM. And the party wasn't given a chance to discover it and was easily wiped. Very anticlimatic, and the whole campaign felt like a waste, having played under false pretenses, though it wasn’t that long. Your group may feel different though.

Accepting the deal with Strahd sounds fun to me with either these two options:
- turn the character into an NPC, and make a new one instead (probably not a good option if it wants to keep up with the party)
- or play secretly just like a DM, with the goal of having your character fail. Drop lots of clues and make sure the other players will understand that he is a traitor, and has a good chance to take him down. If they never discover, or are killed because of it, you have messed up.

I don't think the first one would work out.

"So guys, I decided to write up a new character. But don't worry, my old one will still be around. Why? Oh, no reason."

[Maelynn]

A lot of the responses seem to focus on how the DM should handle things. Since you're not the DM, I'm going to go at this from a player POV.


This information was not given to me in the table, it was a phone call from my DM, so my party has no idea and If I betray them will actually be a surprise and a great plot twist but also may anger my party and cause real life conflict, so any comments on how to handle it?
---
Strahd dones't want me to reply to him and dont make it obvious
---
the question is, if you were a PC in this campaing would take personally the fact that your party memeber joins the BBEG?
---
there are other player that losing take it personal [...] 2 players were really md when they died so im sure at least those 2 player wont take kindly the betrayal
---
he may made the same offer to our vengance paladin (knowing the paladin player he would take the offer right away lol
---
I play interested in a great story and this offer makes me think it would make a great one.

If I single out the lines above, then it seems that doing this behind the party's back with no clues to warn them is very likely going to create a conflict. On the other hand, you say that the Paladin would be likely to instantly accept a similar deal. Do you not think the reaction to him would be the same? Or is it more logical in his case, because of the way he plays his character? If it's the latter, then you could go down a similar path and drop your own hints about wanting power - even something as small as a remark that "boy, that Lich we killed did get me thinking... living forever really would give me the option to gain even more knowledge. And power. I mean, I know it's evil, but... just imagine..."

You really like the plot twist behind it, and that's understandable. Question is, are you willing to risk some of your friends getting mad at you? Are they even your friends? It could be a gathering at your local FLGS, in which case I can imagine it would matter less than if they were people you care for.

What's also important, is this bit:


this will obviously lead to a possible new homebrew campaing.

If this really is going to be the prelude to a new campaign with a new setting, then how do you want your current party to enter it? Do you want them to survive, or can they just roll up new characters? Do you want your own character as a part of it, or are you satisfied with rolling up a new character while your current one gets turned into a BBEG for the party to face at a later time?

My suggestion would be to have a chat with the DM and voice your concern. Say that you like the idea, but worry about people getting mad irl. Perhaps the DM can reassure you by making it very clear to any protesting player that they were behind it and it's their fault, not yours. Perhaps they'll agree to make it a bit more obvious than they initially wanted you to (which raised a wee bit of concern here with me, if a DM actually wants you to be that secretive about betrayal). Or maybe the DM really did make the same offer to every single player, in which case it's going to be one hell of a plot twist.

[Man_Over_Game]

Or maybe the DM really did make the same offer to every single player, in which case it's going to be one hell of a plot twist.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

[NoxHunter]

Is it possible to eventually betray Strahd? Use the power and knowledge he gives you against him. All in all, I applaud your DM for this twist. If you feel your character would betray the party in search of knowledge, go for it. I find betrayal in the party to be a wonderful way to improve the narrative, and if your character still has ties and trusts the party, perhaps he would try to enlist other party members to help him as well. Could be quite fun to split the party against each other rather than just one individual betraying the rest. If you think the DM would be OK with it, perhaps enlist these characters outside of game like the DM did you.

The problem here is a need to aid Strahd to kill the party in order for him to fullfil his part of the contract. So if I get to become a Lich and acquire this knowlege my party would be long dead, my betrayal and the results of it is the endgame, the end of the story in this campaing, The DM narrates the results and book closed. Now if this leads to a homebrew camping where my PC Lich now NPC actually finds a way to move strahd's kingdom to faerum and he secretly arms and helps a new party to kill strahd once and for all, thinking that his betrayal was because he knew the only way to kill strahd was in faerum and he did whatever it took including killing his friends to achive this log term goal.... Oh boy, in ya face vampire lord!

[Man_Over_Game]

Knowing Strahd, he'd offer infinite power and knowledge to every person and demand that the cost was the death of your party.


Scenario 1: Everyone declines. Strahd ramps up his own defenses, and it's a straightforward fight with the difficulty cranked up to 11. Not the worst-case scenario, but pretty darn close, since it means Strahd knows everything that's going to happen.
Scenario 2: Everyone agrees to a bargain. Strahd laughs and says that the deal of the bargain still stands. The last one standing is the one worthy of his notice, the team fights itself, and by that point, the lone person won't stand a chance against Strahd for any act of betrayal.
Scenario 3: Some people agree to the bargain and some don't. Strahd has his followers join him in combat as he murders those who refuse to bend their knee. Now that the party is weakened, refer to Scenario 2.


The best-case scenario I can see is Scenario 2, but everyone betrays Strahd at the same time. It's the one scenario that he'd least expect, and the one where he has the fewest resources/preparation on his side. It's very risky, though, since the plan breaks down as soon as one person decides to side with Strahd.

[NoxHunter]

A lot of the responses seem to focus on how the DM should handle things. Since you're not the DM, I'm going to go at this from a player POV.



If I single out the lines above, then it seems that doing this behind the party's back with no clues to warn them is very likely going to create a conflict. On the other hand, you say that the Paladin would be likely to instantly accept a similar deal. Do you not think the reaction to him would be the same? Or is it more logical in his case, because of the way he plays his character? If it's the latter, then you could go down a similar path and drop your own hints about wanting power - even something as small as a remark that "boy, that Lich we killed did get me thinking... living forever really would give me the option to gain even more knowledge. And power. I mean, I know it's evil, but... just imagine..."

You really like the plot twist behind it, and that's understandable. Question is, are you willing to risk some of your friends getting mad at you? Are they even your friends? It could be a gathering at your local FLGS, in which case I can imagine it would matter less than if they were people you care for.

What's also important, is this bit:



If this really is going to be the prelude to a new campaign with a new setting, then how do you want your current party to enter it? Do you want them to survive, or can they just roll up new characters? Do you want your own character as a part of it, or are you satisfied with rolling up a new character while your current one gets turned into a BBEG for the party to face at a later time?

My suggestion would be to have a chat with the DM and voice your concern. Say that you like the idea, but worry about people getting mad irl. Perhaps the DM can reassure you by making it very clear to any protesting player that they were behind it and it's their fault, not yours. Perhaps they'll agree to make it a bit more obvious than they initially wanted you to (which raised a wee bit of concern here with me, if a DM actually wants you to be that secretive about betrayal). Or maybe the DM really did make the same offer to every single player, in which case it's going to be one hell of a plot twist.

Thank you for the attention to detail, to respond some of your comments:
1.The point is not telling them directly, but some hints can be given.
2. As a wizard when we killed the Lich I actually said that living that long could make any wizard powerful (I suspect this gave our DM the idea)
3. They are actually close friends, they all love this kind of story but those 2 guys I mentioned they just hate losing
4. If this leads to a new campaing I wont mind my PC become and NPC and be a BBEG
5. Im trying the chat with my DM, we will be chating later tonight, but I posted here because I wanted to know opinions from people outside "our bubble"

[NoxHunter]

Knowing Strahd, he'd offer infinite power and knowledge to every person and demand that the cost was the death of your party.


Scenario 1: Everyone declines. Strahd ramps up his own defenses, and it's a straightforward fight with the difficulty cranked up to 11. Not the worst-case scenario, but pretty darn close, since it means Strahd knows everything that's going to happen.
Scenario 2: Everyone agrees to a bargain. Strahd laughs and says that the deal of the bargain still stands. The last one standing is the one worthy of his notice, the team fights itself, and by that point, the lone person won't stand a chance against Strahd for any act of betrayal.
Scenario 3: Some people agree to the bargain and some don't. Strahd has his followers join him in combat as he murders those who refuse to bend their knee. Now that the party is weakened, refer to Scenario 2.


The best-case scenario I can see is Scenario 2, but everyone betrays Strahd at the same time. It's the one scenario that he'd least expect, and the one where he has the fewest resources/preparation on his side. It's very risky, though, since the plan breaks down as soon as one person decides to side with Strahd.

Im actually thinking of a plan B, fearing Strahd obviously wont keep his word, So I was thinking of aiding strahd in the fight with some debuffs and stuff but not stoping any damage to him and in case strahd is victorious but weak just end it with a power world kill or any other ace up my sleeve, I forgot to mention the DM adapted the caping to end at level 20, we are currently at level 17.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Yeah, Im not saying word. But would be giving hints of possible betrayal, the question is, if you were a PC in this campaing would take personally the fact that your party memeber joins the BBEG?

It would entirely depend on how the player did it. If they hammed it up and ultimately sided with the party, I'd chalk that up to great roleplaying. If they end up seriously harming or inhibiting the party, however, it would depend on if I was in a PVP game or not. If it's not, I'd be very annoyed at the breech in trust.

[Nagog]

Strahd is incredibly paranoid and resourceful. You aren't his first rodeo, and he knows that you'd need a group in order to take him on. The only way I could ever see someone betray Strahd is if an entire group was able to convince him, and REALLY convince him, that they're all on his side, and then trust each other to turn on him.

I'm talking, Super Dark Edgelord of the Vengeance Paladin levels of commitment. If a whole party of dark paladins show up, pledge to be his four horsemen, murdered several groups of would-be heroes and sought out several relics for Strahd and personally handed them to him rather than using them against him, I think that'd be enough for "betrayal" to be accomplished.

You need him to be surprised by your commitment, to the point where he believes you're STUPIDLY loyal, not just circumstancially so. Where your best chance to take him was when you all had relics in your hands, and you decided to throw away your best chance to overthrow him, and he believes that you're either too stupid or too weak to worry about.

Anything less than that is simply Strahd's Contingency Plan #27. That is, he's already accounted for that.


Something like this happened when we (my group) were young. One player was secretly a traitor, agreed on with the DM. And the party wasn't given a chance to discover it and was easily wiped. Very anticlimatic, and the whole campaign felt like a waste, having played under false pretenses, though it wasn’t that long. Your group may feel different though.

Accepting the deal with Strahd sounds fun to me with either these two options:
- turn the character into an NPC, and make a new one instead (probably not a good option if it wants to keep up with the party)
- or play secretly just like a DM, with the goal of having your character fail. Drop lots of clues and make sure the other players will understand that he is a traitor, and has a good chance to take him down. If they never discover, or are killed because of it, you have messed up.


Knowing Strahd, he'd offer infinite power and knowledge to every person and demand that the cost was the death of your party.


Scenario 1: Everyone declines. Strahd ramps up his own defenses, and it's a straightforward fight with the difficulty cranked up to 11. Not the worst-case scenario, but pretty darn close, since it means Strahd knows everything that's going to happen.
Scenario 2: Everyone agrees to a bargain. Strahd laughs and says that the deal of the bargain still stands. The last one standing is the one worthy of his notice, the team fights itself, and by that point, the lone person won't stand a chance against Strahd for any act of betrayal.
Scenario 3: Some people agree to the bargain and some don't. Strahd has his followers join him in combat as he murders those who refuse to bend their knee. Now that the party is weakened, refer to Scenario 2.


The best-case scenario I can see is Scenario 2, but everyone betrays Strahd at the same time. It's the one scenario that he'd least expect, and the one where he has the fewest resources/preparation on his side. It's very risky, though, since the plan breaks down as soon as one person decides to side with Strahd.


This is something more akin to what I mean by betraying him. I have a friend who Looooves playing shady characters, to the point that everybody in the group jokes about her characters betraying the party. When it eventually happens, everybody is chill with it because out of character we kinda expected it. It doesn't make the betrayal any less fun or any less impactful, but it is a great way to encourage roleplaying within the group. As long as the party sees you're acting shady, and you have a backup character just in case, as the way I've usually seen it play out is the BBEG orders the traitor to join them in battle, the remaining party members defeat BBEG and Traitor, perhaps killing the Traitor, perhaps offering forgiveness (but not forgetfulness), and the BBEG escapes to plot and scheme some more.

[Fable Wright]

So, I sit at a 13-person Curse of Strahd table. Yes, that is a silly number for the DM to coordinate. Yes, that number is coincidence; it started as three people.

The DM has had Strahd openly bribe Warlock players (primarily) to assassinate party members. At this point, the DM has taken control of three character sheets; there have been several inter-party kills; and at least one near-TPK.

It's at its most fun when the betrayal is out in the open out of character, but the players don't know about it in-character. People can take reasonable, in-character precautions; they begin to play it like a horror game, where going off alone means that the traitor can find and stab you. It's actually at the most thrilling when the DM takes the character sheet, runs it like a horror encounter, while the PC is waiting for a chance for his new sheet to be introduced.

Betraying the party, rolling up a new character? Good fun.
Secret OOC betrayal? How could you.

[Tanarii]

I was a player forced into this situation by DM dictate once. He'd written all our characters, and mine was a Drow Assasssin cursed to be lawful good. During the session we all got separated, and I was "cured" by an enemy priest, reverting my alignment back to CE. Being young and stupid, I happily went along with the DM/NOC's plan to have me betray the party during the final confrontation. This resulted in a TPK. No one was happy, including the DM. Not sure what his endgame plan was there.

If I was in your situation, no way I'd make a choice, given it is a choice, to betray the party successfully. Especially not because "that's what my character would do". You can choose what your character would do. Don't do something that's going to screw up the game for everyone. Choose differently.

For example, you can certainly choose to get your character killed or booted by the party by revealing the betrayal in a non-dangerous situation, and then reroll a new character. You get all the satisfaction of having roleplayed your character making a poor choice, and don't screw up the party in the process.

[Safety Sword]

Yeah, Im not saying word. But would be giving hints of possible betrayal, the question is, if you were a PC in this campaing would take personally the fact that your party memeber joins the BBEG?

Yes. My characters would probably take it very personally. I would kill you first.

As for me, I'd love it and probably be annoyed I hadn't thought of it first :smallamused:

[Unoriginal]

Posting on this subforum again in spite of my better judgement, but whatever, I have important info:

Strahd is totally lying to your character. Even if he *did* have access to the lichification ritual (he doesn't unless your DM decided to change things), neither he nor your PCs would be powerful enough casters to manage to do it. And even if you did turn into a Lich, neither you nor Stradh are powerful enough to cast the Imprisonment spell Liches need to feed on mortals' souls, so you'd starve into a Demilich very very quickly.

[NoxHunter]

Posting on this subforum again in spite of my better judgement, but whatever, I have important info:

Strahd is totally lying to your character. Even if he *did* have access to the lichification ritual (he doesn't unless your DM decided to change things), neither he nor your PCs would be powerful enough casters to manage to do it. And even if you did turn into a Lich, neither you nor Stradh are powerful enough to cast the Imprisonment spell Liches need to feed on mortals' souls, so you'd starve into a Demilich very very quickly.

I undertand your point, but I mentioned in another comment that the DM adapted this capaing to end at level 20 because we wanted his players to experience for the first time a level 20 character, right now we are at level 17 and I do have acces to imprisonment. I know Strahd is lying im being seduced by the plot this may give, if I betray the party I know for a fact the vengance paladin and the hexblade warlock in the group are going to hunt me down succesfully in the encounter, Im prepare for that and probably thats Strahd plan for us to harm or kill each other.

[Man_Over_Game]

Strahd is totally lying to your character. Even if he *did* have access to the lichification ritual (he doesn't unless your DM decided to change things), neither he nor your PCs would be powerful enough casters to manage to do it. And even if you did turn into a Lich, neither you nor Stradh are powerful enough to cast the Imprisonment spell Liches need to feed on mortals' souls, so you'd starve into a Demilich very very quickly.

Technically, he didn't lie. He didn't specify what kind of Lich.

[NoxHunter]

I was a player forced into this situation by DM dictate once. He'd written all our characters, and mine was a Drow Assasssin cursed to be lawful good. During the session we all got separated, and I was "cured" by an enemy priest, reverting my alignment back to CE. Being young and stupid, I happily went along with the DM/NOC's plan to have me betray the party during the final confrontation. This resulted in a TPK. No one was happy, including the DM. Not sure what his endgame plan was there.

If I was in your situation, no way I'd make a choice, given it is a choice, to betray the party successfully. Especially not because "that's what my character would do". You can choose what your character would do. Don't do something that's going to screw up the game for everyone. Choose differently.

For example, you can certainly choose to get your character killed or booted by the party by revealing the betrayal in a non-dangerous situation, and then reroll a new character. You get all the satisfaction of having roleplayed your character making a poor choice, and don't screw up the party in the process.

I plan to give hints of it, by not attaking key enemies or by causing some non-lethal accidents, I trust the wise grave cleric on our party will notice something fishy, plus everytime im more and more convinced to betray strahd, as in double agent thing, making him belive his bribe worked and then back stab, plus I was thinking of using imprisionment spell (chaining) and use my portent (im a divination wizard) to hold the vampire lord while the party smash him... Is it possible? the spells stays until dispelled and it says the target doesnt need to breathe, eat or drink and it doesnt age but it does not say anything about not taking damage. Isn't it too cheesy tho?

[NoxHunter]

Technically, he didn't lie. He didn't specify what kind of Lich.

Yup, lt's a pact with the devil after all.

[1Pirate]

Strahd is totally lying to your character.
This.

Even if Strahd does have the means to give you Lichdom or whatever, there’s no way he’s going to make good on his promise. If you’re even remotely a threat to him now, he’s not going to let you have more power. Only way he lets you live forever is by turning you into a Strahd Zombie.

I doubt the “double agent” plan would work. He’d make sure he was always in a position to screw you before you could screw him, even if you thought otherwise(hell, if I were the DM, I’d have you playing double agent a part of his plan).