Internal Crisis

[Allistar]

I'm really not sure what to do here. I've been Dming for upwards of 3 years now, but I think I've finally hit that point where I get unsure about everything I've ever done. This has happened a couple of times before, but this time it really hit me hard.

Out of the 9 campaigns I've run everyone has said they've been having fun, references get thrown around here and there, but when I look back I just feel empty. My worldbuilding is incomplete, my games are improv or spur of the moment, I can't immerse my players, my campaigns peter out, and so much more. I know that I can do better because I have done better in the past, but now it feels like I can't do anything that hasn't been done before and done in a better way. What can I bring to the table when things like Critical Role, or the Unexpecables exist. What can I do that things like The Witcher, or Goblin Slayer, or any other piece of media has done leaps and bounds better than I ever could. How can I do anything that could even attempt to match that. I feel like I've degraded, that my games are terrible, and that I should just quit the hobby entirely. 3 years I've wasted and I feel awful about all but 1 campaign, 3 years I have tried and failed to give my players anything that wasn't just a meme. I've wanted to reach that next level and for the last year and a half I think I've wasted my time, and that I shouldn't waste any more.

So how do you do it? What keeps you going? What is your light at the end of the tunnel? Why do you DM?

[nickl_2000]

Okay, some things I will say on here.


Your players said they had fun, that and you having fun is pretty much all that matters. Don't compare yourself to critical roll and others, play your game and your players game and go on from there.
If you are running into a road block as a DM, take a break from the hobby or take a break from DMing. Let others be in charge for awhile and spent a year being a single character. There is nothing wrong
This is most important, I may be reading things into your message that aren't there, but I read depression in your message. If you are feeling down about life and depressed you need to talk to someone real.
Get help from a doctor or councilor to help with mental problems. There is no shame in it, in fact it can be really good for you.

[Kintar]

Have realistic expectations.

I can't tell from your post if you're just a regular Joe running a game for your friends, or if you actually have lofty goals of trying to turn the game into some sort of profession. You cite professional actors games, who not only have the skills of a paid (voice) actors, but the financial backing by such places as witch, geek and sundry, dwarvenforge, etc. that afford them the ability to focus on putting out an entertaining product for the masses.

If your goal is the latter, well all I can say is continue to hone your craft. Likely, however, you are just a regular Joe like 99% of the rest of us, and your only goal should be that you're having fun playing the game, and that you are enjoying getting together with your friends, and that they are enjoying themselves.

It sounds, based on your description, that your friends have enjoyed what you've run. Keep in mind, different groups like different things. Some groups do like to play all original Homebrew thought up content, others like commercial campaigns. Some actually like to play a game that basically rips off popular media so they feel like they are "Sam and Dean" or Indiana Jones or whatever.

Don't be afraid to run a campaign that's pre-written. You can also run a pre-written with your own improvements. Or, maybe you're just experiencing a bit of DM fatigue, and a break to be a player for a bit may do you some good.

[SpikeFightwicky]

[...]I think I've finally hit that point where I get unsure about everything I've ever done.[...]

Would you be able to elaborate on this? I've been DMing at a certain capacity for longer than I care to think (almost 30 years... though I started young :smallsigh:) and I've never identified a specific "point" or crisis where I started second-guessing myself. Is there anything else going on outside of D&D that might be clouding your memories of DM these last 3 years? It's natural to feel this while running the game (at least, I hope it is! Otherwise I'm in trouble :smallbiggrin:), though upon reflection if you feel none of it was worth it, especially when the players are enjoying themselves, some other thing in your life might be affecting your point of view. At the end of the day, what do you want to get out of this? Are your players happy (you said they were)? Does their happiness give you satisfaction in your DMing? It probably should. If not, what's missing?

You mention Critical Role, or epic video games as a comparison... Look at these IMDB pages:
Critical Role (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4834232/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast)
The Witcher 3 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2993508/fullcredits?ref_=ttco_sa_1)

Now, compare to your D&D table. The credits for your game are:
You as DM
Each of your players (3-5players?)
None of you are getting paid for this, and you have no budget. I feel that you're being too hard on yourself (Witcher 3 has 17 people with writing credits!!! Each one paid industry salaries to craft their stories. No one can compete with that).

All that aside, you mention that "[your] games are improv or spur of the moment". My own opinion is that you need a balance if you want a good campaign. As Kintar mentioned, take a look at the "Tales From the Yawning Portal" adventure book. Everything's mapped out, all the dungeon rooms have purpose and background and details that the players will likely never know. How many players traipse through the Sunless Citadel without ever knowing the structure's history? If they don't, it doesn't matter. If they're curious and investigate, you have the details to give them. I ran a 3 year campaign where the only thing I knew for sure was what encounters were going to happen, and I even made up the dungeon map on the fly. It worked, and the players never suspected. However, I could have added so much detail and immersion. When I read the 5th edition treatment of Sunless Citadel (and really, any of the 5th edition adventures), I realized how much I could be adding by taking the time to fill out my own dungeons ahead of time. All it takes is time. (though the reality is that this won't work for everyone) Plan everything out, then be ready to improv when (not if :smallbiggrin:) the players go the route you never intended that they take.

All that said, what do you want out of your DMing experience that you aren't currently getting? What (if anything) might be going on outside of D&D that might be affecting your enjoyment of the game?

Sorry if I sound preachy or long-winded in my response. It's not my intention if it comes off that way!

[SirGraystone]

Ah the curse of Critical Role, so many look at Matt Mercer style of play as goal to reach but he would be the first to tell you to find your own style. Mercer has been at it a lot more time then 3 years and most important is not his world building, it's what his players build with the blocks he gave them. Not all players looks for the same thing in a game, some are happy to just kill monsters and loots them. Some will roleplay among themselves for half an hour with little help from the DM.

But the most important thing you said was that your players are having fun. That mean you are doing fine as a DM, you are too harsh on yourself. Let me put this that way if you play baseball with your friends, everyones is having fun but you dont hit as well as a professional player would think you are bad at baseball?

Maybe you just need a break, DM burning themselves out is a thing, ask another player if they to try DMing an adventure for a few weeks so you can see the other side of the screen. The most important thing is not the worldbuilding it's to have fun.

[Segev]

My advice would be to either take a break (ask one of the players in your games to DM, perhaps), or to pick up a module and run it. Prepare by reading it thoroughly, and thinking about how you'll tweak it for your players.

Heck, I'm running Tomb of Annihilation right now because I caught one of the groups you mention (I think it's Acquisitions Inc.) doing their first session of it, in costume, at a convention, on a stage. So you know the guys to whom you're comparing yourself run prepared modules. (I was inspired by the dino races, and thought my friends would love those. I was quite surprised by how little interest they took in them in game. But they're enjoying it nonetheless.)

While improv is an important skill, almost no professional actors, writers, artists, or performers of any sort do things purely on improv. Those that do typically aren't doing something that's "the next level," the way you're suggesting you want to. Robin Williams, perhaps one of the greatest improvisational voice actors and comedians in history, did thousands upon thousands of takes for the things that we know and love him for as iconic, "next level" stuff. Don't get me wrong: he's reputed to keep people in stitches through all those takes. But what's funny in the moment isn't what makes it "next level." In this, as in much art, it's what you take out that finally makes the masterpiece. And "taking it out" is both emotionally hard, and time-consuming.

Again, though, improv is important. It is what allows those who've prepared to the hilt to take the moment their plan hits the players and run with it when the players do something unexpected. Prep is knowing your world and setting thoroughly, and improv is never not involved when playing because you always have to improvise within the boundaries and structures you've established. You're never on-script as a DM, after all. So cherish and celebrate your ability to improvise, while honing your preparation skills. This is another reason to try a prepared module. You won't have no prep of your own to do, but a lot of the framework is done for you. Much of the prep there is organizational and ... er ... studying. So you know the material backwards and forwards. The organizational prep is things like transcribing stat blocks (particularly any that are "like some creature but with these changes") to notes you can have at your fingertips without having to flip through the MM for 4 different monsters every round. Or, in my case, carefully scaling professionally-done maps of dungeons so they're 1-inch-per-square when printed out, and then cutting the printouts so I can use the individually-cut-out rooms as things to just lay down on the battlemat when the PCs enter them. :smalleek:

But first, take a break. Ask somebody else to run a campaign, so you can play. But don't take too long of one; start up a new game, using a preplanned module that you've read and found inspiring, to get back on your feet.

[Tawmis]

Okay, some things I will say on here.


Your players said they had fun, that and you having fun is pretty much all that matters. Don't compare yourself to critical roll and others, play your game and your players game and go on from there.
If you are running into a road block as a DM, take a break from the hobby or take a break from DMing. Let others be in charge for awhile and spent a year being a single character. There is nothing wrong
This is most important, I may be reading things into your message that aren't there, but I read depression in your message. If you are feeling down about life and depressed you need to talk to someone real.
Get help from a doctor or councilor to help with mental problems. There is no shame in it, in fact it can be really good for you.


^ Pretty much all of this. Seriously.

The only thing I'd add (that others have said, so I am pretty much just emphasizing)... When you look at things like Critical Role and Matt Mercer and that whole bit - you need to understand that they're also being sponsored. So they have these elaborate tables, they have these elaborate dungeon looking rooms, they have these incredible elaborate sets, they have this elaborate amazing technology... This is all stuff that you, as a normal DM - like me and the hundreds of others on here who sit behind that DM screen will not have. So we do with what we have. Some of us might have a nice set. Some of us might have a cool table. Some of us might even have a game room. But we don't have a sponsor shoving money down our pockets to put on the "best show possible."

I currently DM for one game where it's at a friend's house. We sit at her dining table. Every once in awhile I throw down a map. But other than that? It's just friends gathering, eating food, and playing D&D.

The important thing is - not only are your players saying they're having fun - but they're also using references to the game? That means you're creating wonderful memories and they're not just "saying" they're having fun.

It is natural for most creative people to have self-doubt that devours us viciously like some internal disease... But look at your audience. Watch them as you DM. Are they laughing? Having a good time? Then there is the reward. Not everyone gets DEEP into the story. I literally have an ENTIRE site I made for my homebrew world that has the history of the gods, history of the world, maps, a "Monster Manual" that has general descriptions of monsters (and how they came to be in my world) - the whole thing - all there for my players to read. I promise you if I asked them anything from that site, I doubt ANY of them would know. So they may not be immersed in this world I have created for them - but when I DM for them, they do have a great time, sacrificing a Saturday to sit with me while I weave adventures for them to walk through and shape my world.

[willdaBEAST]

I totally get it and relate, but like others have mentioned you need to make sure your expectations allign with reality.

When comparing a campaign to something like Critical Role, you need to remember they don’t only have more resources, writers, etc, they also have full buy-in from all the players. There’s a vested interest from everyone involved to put on as exciting a show as possible. Not everyone who plays at your table is going to have that commitment and unless you explicitly share that same drive, it’s unreasonable to expect it.

Basically, it’s not all on you to produce a memorable campaign, your players need to be just as engaged and invested. Another way to look at it is there are countless ways a campaign can fall apart and very few in which it’s something the players remember for the rest of their lives.

I work in the film industry and think a lot about all the movies that have a world-class director, amazing writers, actors, crew, etc, but are still absolutely terrible.

[Sigreid]

Sounds like you should consider not watching a professional game production if you're going to compare yourself to it.

Edit: much like if I play football for fun with my friends I shouldn't compare my performance with what I see in an NFL game.

[Allistar]

Thank you for all of your concerns and advice. My mental health is fine outside of the game (or so I believe), but lately for one reason or another self doubt hit me like a ton of bricks. I think it's more so the fact that I realized that my playgroup and I have had a bit of a shift. I think we're finally at the point where "You are going down a path that I cannot follow" might be a valid description.

We had all talked and I said I wanted to do more player driven games. This would get more and more difficult as time went on since I had to juggle college, work, and home life. That's also the reason most of my stuff was spur of the moment. I still had things prepared, and I still had an outline of a plan, but how it was going to happen was completely blank.

I decided a good place to start was with drawing a map (even though my art skills are lacking) and populating a few things and expanding where they showed interest. Shame that they never decided to interact with it at all even though the campaign we were in at the time was a pirate themed one. The campaign died soon afterwords. Welp, at least I'll have the areas laid out in case I want to run local adventures in them (spoiler alert, I never got to use them). Well whatever, what's a few month's work down the drain, I'll just come up with some new concepts (except that's really hard for me). I tend to want to do my own unique thing with the races/economies/interworkings of my worlds unlike anything I had ever read about or seen before. Needless to say, this process took forever and a day since being wholly original is extremely difficult. This process is even more difficult when you have such amazing things like the witcher and all the aforementioned things that have seeped into the hobby as a whole. Eventually I just took a step back, and now I can't bring myself to touch it since I've already written myself into a corner. Eventually I just dropped it, and I'm really not sure If I want to go back or not. I've run dry on ideas and now I'm not sure I could come up with anything new no matter how hard I try.

This all got me thinking about how nothing I did ever truly got to the players. Every week I had to recap everything, they would forget why they were on the adventures or what they were doing, and they have this unnatural 6th sense about somehow avoiding/ignoring the NPCs and lazer focusing the things I didn't have time to think about. Needless to say, I get a bit fed up with this since on the rare occasion that I get free time I want to write and make these "stunning tales" for them to experience, but when they don't give a damn about what's happening it makes it really difficult to get passionate about running the next session. This my friends is what I mean when I'm talking about "next level", the kind of play where both sides are equally into every aspect of what's going on, but that's a fantasy for most of us. So I turn to the things that do show this kind of energy and excitement, Critical Role, The Unexpectables, all of these amazing things that I will never be anything like.

The sad part is this group once had that energy, but somewhere along the line it petered out and so did the campaign that sparked it in the first place. That was the one campaign I was actually proud of, and it got cut short due to my scheduling issues....

All of this self doubt and frustration welled for a bit and now we're here.

[MagneticKitty]

I mostly dm because I want things in a world that don't exist in dnd. What if I want lycans who don't follow dnd's absurd logic (because all wolves are evil and all bears are good... logic!) , or a race of bat people, or monsters that don't exist.. no one else will make that world for me. So I gotta make my own. Most of the races I want to play are not pc races. I want to play a dragon, a lycan, a sphinx... And you just can't. Unless you dm.

Also, you're presumably not a famous author or voice actor whose job it is to write dnd things, you have a life, and you and your players need to realize that. If your group is dragging try a new online one. New players can often spark some excitement. Or ask your players what they want and provide that. Some players what 100 layers of dungeon, some want story, some want to relax and not care about choice ..

[Sigreid]

A break can be good. Keep contact with your group and you can start again when you're longing for it. You also might try an entirely different game in an entirely different setting and genre fir a while if you want to keep the social group together.

[Allistar]

A break can be good. Keep contact with your group and you can start again when you're longing for it. You also might try an entirely different game in an entirely different setting and genre fir a while if you want to keep the social group together.

I suppose that's another thing that kind of bugged me. I didn't want to start over from scratch because that would be time consuming and I didn't want to try out pathfinder because it seemed way too complicated. I suppose the only thing we haven't tried is a shift in genre, but I don't exactly know how well the 5e format would apply to sci-fi or dark fantasy (the two that have been a bit in my mind as of late).

[Aprender]

10 Try your best.
20 Recognize that you are not perfect.
30 Forgive yourself for not being perfect.
40 Goto 10

One of the downsides to a world where we can see amazing people doing awesome things so easily is that we forget about the concept of opportunity cost. Think about all of the things you do to keep your home in order. Regular job, cutting the grass, taking the wife out to dinner, changing diapers, etc. Someone who is allowed to focus solely on putting together a campaign for other professional players does not have those same worries. *so don't compare yourself to them*

If you and you're players are having a good time, then you are doing it right. Details really don't matter. If you aren't having fun, take a break. You've earned it. You know who's awesome? You're awesome...


But not perfect and that is Ok.

[Sigreid]

I suppose that's another thing that kind of bugged me. I didn't want to start over from scratch because that would be time consuming and I didn't want to try out pathfinder because it seemed way too complicated. I suppose the only thing we haven't tried is a shift in genre, but I don't exactly know how well the 5e format would apply to sci-fi or dark fantasy (the two that have been a bit in my mind as of late).

I don't know what your finances are like, but I was really thinking of a different game all together. Some sci-fi or horror game maybe.

Maybe ask if one of your players wants to take a crack at the other side of the screen.

[Kintar]

We don't have to be perfect as DMs, and the goal is to have fun, not to provide the ultimate roleplay experience possible. I don't want to start a war on or against critical or the like, but always keep in mind that for those DMs/players, the one thing they all have, that we don't have at our games in the real world, is a vested interest for everyone to cooperate and be on the same page to buy into the story and perform it in an entertaining fashion. These guys and gals get paid to do this, whether directly or indirectly through selling merch, future voice acting gigs (pillars of eternity and it's sequel), conventions etc. So, unlike your players who have lives outside of DND, responsibilities, and simply differing levels of appreciation for this hobby, the actors are always going to appear to be more plugged in to their DMs game, their livelihood depends on it.

I know in my game, it's been going on for 3-4 years, at once a month game days. I have one player who sometimes didn't seem to know his class (barbarian) abilities and I worried that after a couple of years of this, maybe he wasn't learning it because he didn't care much about the game. Come to find out, he had/was battling cancer, and at times, was playing while receiving chemo (he dials into our game because he's in a different state). He later told me out of the blue that our games were one thing he looks forward to because it gives him a chance to "kick somethings *ss".

Point being, expectations. You'll never have a home game as good as a professional made for audience entertainment production. Enjoy those for what they are and enjoy your home game for your people and the memories it makes.

[Demonslayer666]

We rotate DMs so we each get a break. It gives me plenty of time to prepare and reflect on what I want to do. I agree with Segev, run a prepared adventure so it has tangible goals and an eventual stopping point. One of our biggest complaints as players was that games just putter out, and don't have a set goal. It's very unfulfilling and we would get to about level 7 or so and the game would just stop. Lately (the last several years) we have vowed to run campaigns to a defined end, and running prepared adventures has worked quite well.

[OctaviOz]

I decided a good place to start was with drawing a map (even though my art skills are lacking) and populating a few things and expanding where they showed interest. Shame that they never decided to interact with it at all even though the campaign we were in at the time was a pirate themed one. The campaign died soon afterwords. Welp, at least I'll have the areas laid out in case I want to run local adventures in them (spoiler alert, I never got to use them). Well whatever, what's a few month's work down the drain, I'll just come up with some new concepts (except that's really hard for me). I tend to want to do my own unique thing with the races/economies/interworkings of my worlds unlike anything I had ever read about or seen before. Needless to say, this process took forever and a day since being wholly original is extremely difficult. This process is even more difficult when you have such amazing things like the witcher and all the aforementioned things that have seeped into the hobby as a whole. Eventually I just took a step back, and now I can't bring myself to touch it since I've already written myself into a corner. Eventually I just dropped it, and I'm really not sure If I want to go back or not. I've run dry on ideas and now I'm not sure I could come up with anything new no matter how hard I try.

This all got me thinking about how nothing I did ever truly got to the players. Every week I had to recap everything, they would forget why they were on the adventures or what they were doing, and they have this unnatural 6th sense about somehow avoiding/ignoring the NPCs and lazer focusing the things I didn't have time to think about. Needless to say, I get a bit fed up with this since on the rare occasion that I get free time I want to write and make these "stunning tales" for them to experience, but when they don't give a damn about what's happening it makes it really difficult to get passionate about running the next session. This my friends is what I mean when I'm talking about "next level", the kind of play where both sides are equally into every aspect of what's going on, but that's a fantasy for most of us. So I turn to the things that do show this kind of energy and excitement, Critical Role, The Unexpectables, all of these amazing things that I will never be anything like.


From what you've said here it sounds like your expectations and your players expectations are quite different. You have put a whole lot of time, effort and energy into creating something unique and special and are then getting frustrated when your players go in a different direction and focus on something different. In the group I DM there are those that are invested and come to each session prepared and onthers that can barely remember what dice to role after a year of playing. My role as DM is not to dictate how they should play the game, but to enable fun and enjoable moments for everyone around the table - incuding myself.

I would suggest taking a short break fromm DMing, maybe one of your players can step up and you can just play for a while. This doesn't mean all your work has gone to waste as it sounds like it could be re-purposed for many more cmapaigns at some point down the track.

Most importantly when DMing or Paying, make sure everyone has a good idea of expectations. Are you going for a heavily invested, RP-heavy campaign or something more beer-and-pretzels? If some people don't want to play the way you want to DM it might be worth starting a new campaign with those that want that particular Game-Style.

[bobofwestgate]

I'm really not sure what to do here. I've been Dming for upwards of 3 years now, but I think I've finally hit that point where I get unsure about everything I've ever done. This has happened a couple of times before, but this time it really hit me hard.

Out of the 9 campaigns I've run everyone has said they've been having fun, references get thrown around here and there, but when I look back I just feel empty. My worldbuilding is incomplete, my games are improv or spur of the moment, I can't immerse my players, my campaigns peter out, and so much more. I know that I can do better because I have done better in the past, but now it feels like I can't do anything that hasn't been done before and done in a better way. What can I bring to the table when things like Critical Role, or the Unexpecables exist. What can I do that things like The Witcher, or Goblin Slayer, or any other piece of media has done leaps and bounds better than I ever could. How can I do anything that could even attempt to match that. I feel like I've degraded, that my games are terrible, and that I should just quit the hobby entirely. 3 years I've wasted and I feel awful about all but 1 campaign, 3 years I have tried and failed to give my players anything that wasn't just a meme. I've wanted to reach that next level and for the last year and a half I think I've wasted my time, and that I shouldn't waste any more.

So how do you do it? What keeps you going? What is your light at the end of the tunnel? Why do you DM?

You really can't compare yourself to the big game's out there like Critical Role. Matt Mercer is pretty much a professional DM. In addition him and all his players are seasoned improv artists and successful voice acters. Pretty much all of them have each, hundreds of acting roles credited to them in various cartoons/anime's/video games on IMDB

[Sparky McDibben]

So how do you do it? What keeps you going? What is your light at the end of the tunnel? Why do you DM?

Playing in someone else's game. If you can't do that, take a break and go soak up some cool ****. Read a great book, watch a fantastic film, or even go for a cool hike! Get out there and get inspired by some awesome stuff without the pressure of having to prep a game. Find something amazing that you want to put in your game by just living. That's how I do it, but of course, your mileage may vary.

[Sigreid]

Just want to add one more thing about comparing yourself to critical role. Remember that that is a group of professional entertainers performing for an audience. It's really hard to say how much they are enjoying their own game since the reason they are there is to make D&D look awesome and enticing and entertaining for the audience. It's entirely possible that your players are enjoying your campaign more than those players are enjoying that campaign which when you get right down to it is their JOB.