Ninja with Read Magic 5e?

[GuestEleven]

I'm working on building a shadow ninja. I was thinking 11 levels of monk taking Way of Shadow and 9 levels in rogue taking Assassin. This would give me a pretty good array of ninja skills, fast movement, decent damage I imagine, and some small illusion tricks.

One of my biggest wants is the ability to use 'ninja' scrolls {Scrubbed}, just buying or having a wizard craft the scrolls for me. I think Blur, Mirror Image, Shadow Blade, and some other ones would be pretty fun and helpful. My big question is if just taking the Way of Shadow would qualify me for using scrolls even with a DC check? And if not then what about Magic Initiate? If neither of those work by RAW I could work it out with the DM. Or just take 2 levels in wizard.

Thanks for any help, and I welcome any other suggestions for the build.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm working on building a shadow ninja. I was thinking 11 levels of monk taking Way of Shadow and 9 levels in rogue taking Assassin. This would give me a pretty good array of ninja skills, fast movement, decent damage I imagine, and some small illusion tricks.

One of my biggest wants is the ability to use 'ninja' scrolls {Scrubbed post, scrubbed quote}, just buying or having a wizard craft the scrolls for me. I think Blur, Mirror Image, Shadow Blade, and some other ones would be pretty fun and helpful. My big question is if just taking the Way of Shadow would qualify me for using scrolls even with a DC check? And if not then what about Magic Initiate? If neither of those work by RAW I could work it out with the DM. Or just take 2 levels in wizard.

Thanks for any help, and I welcome any other suggestions for the build.

Honestly, I'd switch out Assassin for Arcane Trickster. The Assassin features are either weak or situational to the extreme (getting off Assassinate is really rare IMX), and AT would give you exactly what you want. You could natively use those scrolls and even cast some of them yourself at higher levels.

[GuestEleven]

Honestly, I'd switch out Assassin for Arcane Trickster. The Assassin features are either weak or situational to the extreme (getting off Assassinate is really rare IMX), and AT would give you exactly what you want. You could natively use those scrolls and even cast some of them yourself at higher levels.

I can see what you're saying. I guess realistically in most combat scenarios I wouldn't get a lot of mileage out of Assassinate unless my DM sends me on actual assassination missions. The second level from Wizard taking the Illusion Discipline would be pretty nice since I could spam Minor Illusion constantly.

[Aprender]

Assassin is awesome in a campaign where it's just you and the DM. You can go all stealthy, pop out of the shadows and murderize some fool.

When your main char trait almost relies on leaving your party behind and playing 1 on 1 with your DM while they check their phone for updates on their social media, it is less engaging. After the first few times the other players are bored, a good DM will stop offering you the opportunities to shine. And since your hopping out of the bushes when your team is already engaged doesn't grant the surprised condition to the opponents (see other thread), you main feature will likely lanquish unused.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I can see what you're saying. I guess realistically in most combat scenarios I wouldn't get a lot of mileage out of Assassinate unless my DM sends me on actual assassination missions. The second level from Wizard taking the Illusion Discipline would be pretty nice since I could spam Minor Illusion constantly.

You can pick up Minor Illusion as a cantrip from AT without a dip at all. You're already giving up quite a lot--at least one ASI, for example.

Heck, other than the explicit magic, Shadow Monk makes a pretty darn good ninja already. There's an argument that taking Magic Initiate (wizard) is enough to be able to use wizard scrolls, but you'd have to roll to see if they succeed (Intelligence vs DC 10+spell level IIRC) because you can't cast them naturally with your (non-existent) spell slots. But you'd have to do that anyway with only 2 levels in wizard, if they're above 1st level.

[Ninja_Prawn]

My big question is if just taking the Way of Shadow would qualify me for using scrolls even with a DC check? And if not then what about Magic Initiate? If neither of those work by RAW I could work it out with the DM. Or just take 2 levels in wizard.

By a strict reading of the RAW, I'd have to say no, but I'd expect most DMs to allow it in practice.

The key wording is:

If the spell if on your class' spell list
...
If the spell is... of a higher level than you can normally cast
A monk (even a shadow monk) doesn't have a spell list, and there is no particular level of spells that they can normally cast. The clear implication is that you have to have the Spellcasting class feature to use spell scrolls.

What you could do is re-fluff your Shadow Arts abilities as being cast from paper talismans. That should be fine.

[darknite]

I like the Arcane Trickster choice over Assassin. The monk side already emphasizes combat and if you didn't want to use actual magic the Assassin choice would be okay but since you do want to be a magic ninja, Arcane Trickster would fit the bill, instead.

[GuestEleven]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. It is great help.

[GuestEleven]

I think I like giving unaware enemies disadvantage on saves against my Illusions while I'm hidden. That could be pretty massive.

[Aprender]

Thief is an underappreciated sub-class. If you go to 13 levels in rogue as a thief, you can use any magic item whether it was intended for you or not. Having a climbing speed in the right campaign setting can be more useful than an extra 10 ft of movement speed. The extra sneak attack damage certainly feels extra stabby stabby (kind of like being an assassin).

The above could also be a reflection of finding monks underwhelming (I know, I know. It's just a personal bias)

[Willie the Duck]

I like the Arcane Trickster choice over Assassin. The monk side already emphasizes combat and if you didn't want to use actual magic the Assassin choice would be okay but since you do want to be a magic ninja, Arcane Trickster would fit the bill, instead.


Thief is an underappreciated sub-class. If you go to 13 levels in rogue as a thief, you can use any magic item whether it was intended for you or not.

I think this is where I land. Sneaky type who can cast spells and sneaky type who can use scrolls and the like (despite not being a caster) are the deliberate points of these two subclasses. If your conception of ninja leans towards these concepts, these are the subclasses that should be brought to bear.

[Man_Over_Game]

The thing about your build is, you don't want to deviate much from Monk. Due to the fact that your Ki points are based on Monk levels, and you regain your Ki points on a Short Rest, Monk dramatically grows in power the more levels you take into it.

level 10 Monk + 2 Short Rests = 30 Ki points per day.

Level 15 Monk + 2 Short Rests = 45 Ki Points per day.

As a result, it's probably best to make a small investment into something that enhances your shadow/assassin skills. Something like Gloomstalker comes to mind, as it means you'll have Advantage on the first attack you make in a turn, which also provides +1d8 damage due to Dread Assault. It'll also increase your Darkvision to something fierce.

If you want to cast spells from scrolls and such, you could look into something like Ritual Caster.

You could also go a completely roundabout route with Warlock, as they can cast spells, read any rituals from a specific invocation, see in magical darkness with another invocation, cast Shadow Blade as often as they need to, and have a bunch of other tricks up their sleeves.

[Talionis]

Thief is an underappreciated sub-class. If you go to 13 levels in rogue as a thief, you can use any magic item whether it was intended for you or not. Having a climbing speed in the right campaign setting can be more useful than an extra 10 ft of movement speed. The extra sneak attack damage certainly feels extra stabby stabby (kind of like being an assassin).

The above could also be a reflection of finding monks underwhelming (I know, I know. It's just a personal bias)

This was my thought immediately too. Use Magic Item is exactly what you are describing.

I also agree the combination of Monk and Thief makes you a ridiculous jumper.

Much of what you want Assassin for seems to me to be things that can be replicated with Expertise in infiltration skills. Damage will be fine without Assassinate.

When you have Extra Attack and Sneak Attack you don’t necessarily need to spend Ki points every round so having the best reservoir of Ki points isn’t truly necessary. Stunning people is great control.

Totally out of the blue I will also let you know that I built a Four Elements Monk spy type character and used Gaseous Form instead of teleporting. It was different and unexpected and worked well.

[tieren]

It seems counterintuitive but consider dropping rogue for a few levels of bladesinger.

Just have enough int to multiclass and use all your slots on absorb elements, shield, mirror image, blur, blink, etc...

Your 'spell book' can be an ancient scroll you carry around in a scroll case.