Racial Feat as a carrot

[Whiskeyjack8044]

I think for my next campaign I'll tell my players that they can pick any race but if they pick Human, Half-elf, Half-orc, Dwarf, Halfling, or Gnome they can gain their racial feat at level 1. If this fair? Would you hate this sort of manipulation at the table?

[DarkKnightJin]

Either give everyone a (racial) feat at 1st level, or nobody gets it. And you're the DM.
If you don't want (player) races other than those you've picked, just say it up front.
You can do that, you know.

[Jerrykhor]

That's really unfair. You can try that, but don't be surprised if your players roll elves/half-elves and expect a free Elven Accuracy.

If you want to encourage the 'common' races, just say that in your setting, the non-common races are discriminated against in some way.

[darknite]

I wouldn't add a mechanical advantage carrot. Let the players choose who and what they want to play. You can encourage them in certain directions but I'd make the incentive story-based.

[Contrast]

If you want to encourage the 'common' races, just say that in your setting, the non-common races are discriminated against in some way.

In my experience mentioning a race like that is an almost guaranteed way for someone to ask to play one.

[SodaQueen]

In my experience mentioning a race like that is an almost guaranteed way for someone to ask to play one.That's true; it's a great RP angle to take.

I'd just disallow any race you don't want the players to take. And if you want racial feats used just let everybody take one at level 1.

I love non-combat fluffier feats and I wanted to incentivize them so I allowed every player to take one for free at level 1. Stuff like Actor and UA feats like Gourmand. It was a big hit and the players got some good mileage with the extra utility.

[Maelynn]

I think for my next campaign I'll tell my players that they can pick any race but if they pick Human, Half-elf, Half-orc, Dwarf, Halfling, or Gnome they can gain their racial feat at level 1. If this fair? Would you hate this sort of manipulation at the table?

To give straight-up (and rather blunt) answers to the direct questions: no, it's not fair and yes, I hate that kind of manipulation.

The fact that you call it manipulation already suggests that deep down you feel the same way. Either give all races the same benefit, or flat out tell them you want a campaign with only the mentioned races. You're the DM, you get to decide what races/classes are out of reach.

[LibraryOgre]

If you're thinking other kinds of carrots, you might also go with something a bit less permanent.

Give all starting characters of your preferred races an extra 50 gold at character creation (adjusted for actual starting level). It can represent their greater station within society, and the fact that they don't have as many hurdles to overcome as someone else.

It's a great boost, but it will wear off after a few adventures..

[dragoeniex]

Out of curiosity, are you wanting to discourage dragonborn and elves as well as the more exotic races? If so, why? Mechanical pet peeves, not races you see gelling well with your setting, or...?

[MagneticKitty]

Those are the races I least want to play. I want a character that looks fantasy. Not a human with pointy ears, short human, or bearded human. XD

So I'd be mad.

[Bjarkmundur]

I have been offered to join "Dwarf-only" campaigns or "a Drow campaign".

The catch is usually that the adventure is finite. Go ahead and offer your players a 5-level campagin from level x to y with a limited selection of races.
I'm guessing you're using this carrot to discourage drows, dragonborns, tieflings etc, more than anything else?

You could do a WoW Horde vs. Allience type thing, where this story happens in the "Kingdom of Glory", which constists only of your selected races. All other races are "the bad guys" and have pledge alligence to Sauro.. I mean, a tiefling cleric of asmodeus.

I did something else for my campaign. I created a limited races list, with some text, and added a "planetouched" psuedo-race as a placeholder for the fantastic races. You can flavor it as pretty much anything you want, but I don't have to include rich history or an entire society of that race in my campaign. You are touched by the Nine Hells? Cool, just don't tell anybody, and no you don't look like a demon, you just have innate abilities. Think fiendish Aasimar. This way you give your players what they want, without having to deal with the whole packages that comes with a monster-race.

I think carrotting is bad in your case, since the players will immediately know what you're doing and not appreciate it. Using the "I am creating the story, and I get to pick the setting and create world" is expected of the DM, so use that instead.


Races
The following races are the ones that are common in my setting. By default, no other races are present in the towns and cities of the world. This, however, does not necessarily mean they don't exist entirely. If you want to play a different race, talk to your DM about that race's place and history in the world, and the general disposition of the world's factions towards it. Racial ability score increases have been removed from races and are instead included in the ability score section of this document.

Common Races


Human
Dwarf
Elf
Half-elf
Halfling
Half-Orc


Planetouched
You never know who's blood and heritage trace back to fiends, celestials or elementals. You can only hope that they can keep their innate abilities in check.
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision
Languages: Common, 1 other
1 Damage Resistance
1 Non-damaging Cantrip
Choose one at Level 3:

Protector (http://gdnd.wikidot.com/race:aasimar)
Scourge (http://gdnd.wikidot.com/race:aasimar)
Fallen (http://gdnd.wikidot.com/race:aasimar)
Racial Spells: You gain a spell at 3rd and 5th level that can each be cast once per day as if cast with a 2nd level spell slot.

[OverLordOcelot]

It's obviously unfair, the same way 'if you play X, you get this extra Y bonus' is unfair. Unlike some other posters I don't see anything wrong with doing it, but the extra feat is going to skew your campaign heavily towards the races you give it to, and will alienate players who either don't want to play those races or don't like that level of 'force'. I personally would not do this, as it messes with game balance and probably stirs up resentment - I would rather just outright say 'these X races are the options for PCs in this campaign/world'.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

I'm gonna push back on this a little bit. I don't have a problem banning certain races but that's not what I want to do in this case.

I don't want to say "Hey most the people here are X so you have to play as X." I want to say "Yeah most people here are Human so if you play as a human I'll be able to better connect you to the setting. I know that's kinda boring so I'll let you have the racial feat. Otherwise feel free to play as a Firbolg or whatever."

None of the Racial feats are super powerful and most of them can only be used once per short rest. Elven Accuracy sounds powerful on paper but in play it rarely makes a difference. If you have advantage making an attack you are proficient with you usually hit with out even needing to roll that 3rd die. All it really does is give you a better chance to crit. Can you honestly say that any of the PHB races with racial feats are more powerful than the Volo and MToF PC races?

The time slot for the game got bumped up and I actually ran it before I had a chance to confer with you folks. No one was upset and everything went fine. I don't want to sound like I don't respect y'alls opinion, but in this case I think there might have been some pessimism lol.

As an aside I have to tell y'all about my Half-Orc PC's epic moment. He was fighting a Homebrew Scarecrow when he was KOed by an unfortunate Nat 20. Being an Orc he was instead reduced to 1 hitpoint and because of Orcish Fury he got to make a melee attack, and again with Orcish Fury he was able to roll an extra damage die.

"As you blow strikes you in the head you begin to fall and fade. You go down on one knee but you know if you fall you won't be able to protect your friends. In one last act of defiance you lash out with your long-sword, eyes closed wait for the monster to finish you. But the blow never comes and when you open your eyes you see that in your desperation you split the creature in two, killing it." The thing had only had 2 HP when he hit it, so the extra damage didn't really matter but he didn't know that. It was the stand out moment of the game.

No point to that story other than it was a cool moment and I wanted to talk about it.

[suplee215]

I'm gonna push back on this a little bit. I don't have a problem banning certain races but that's not what I want to do in this case.

I don't want to say "Hey most the people here are X so you have to play as X." I want to say "Yeah most people here are Human so if you play as a human I'll be able to better connect you to the setting. I know that's kinda boring so I'll let you have the racial feat. Otherwise feel free to play as a Firbolg or whatever."

None of the Racial feats are super powerful and most of them can only be used once per short rest. Elven Accuracy sounds powerful on paper but in play it rarely makes a difference. If you have advantage making an attack you are proficient with you usually hit with out even needing to roll that 3rd die. All it really does is give you a better chance to crit. Can you honestly say that any of the PHB races with racial feats are more powerful than the Volo and MToF PC races?

The time slot for the game got bumped up and I actually ran it before I had a chance to confer with you folks. No one was upset and everything went fine. I don't want to sound like I don't respect y'alls opinion, but in this case I think there might have been some pessimism lol.

As an aside I have to tell y'all about my Half-Orc PC's epic moment. He was fighting a Homebrew Scarecrow when he was KOed by an unfortunate Nat 20. Being an Orc he was instead reduced to 1 hitpoint and because of Orcish Fury he got to make a melee attack, and again with Orcish Fury he was able to roll an extra damage die.

"As you blow strikes you in the head you begin to fall and fade. You go down on one knee but you know if you fall you won't be able to protect your friends. In one last act of defiance you lash out with your long-sword, eyes closed wait for the monster to finish you. But the blow never comes and when you open your eyes you see that in your desperation you split the creature in two, killing it." The thing had only had 2 HP when he hit it, so the extra damage didn't really matter but he didn't know that. It was the stand out moment of the game.

No point to that story other than it was a cool moment and I wanted to talk about it.
You just showed how powerful the racial feats are. I honesty do not think that the volo classes are especially powerful compared to those you mentioned, especially Human (assuming variant), Half-Elf, and Dwarf. Those 3 are top tier and half-orc isn't a slouch. That said, if your party enjoyed and you enjoyed it what random people say on the internet doesn't matter. Personally I would have handled it by having the people who are less common in the setting has less help and aid from NPCs and such. A dwarf's artisan guild is much easier to access than a dragon born's as there are no dragon born in the nation for example. I do think that this website is going to automatically go "you're giving advantages to book that are a very limited resource that only shows up 5 times over 20 levels".

[False God]

I'm gonna push back on this a little bit. I don't have a problem banning certain races but that's not what I want to do in this case.

I don't want to say "Hey most the people here are X so you have to play as X." I want to say "Yeah most people here are Human so if you play as a human I'll be able to better connect you to the setting. I know that's kinda boring so I'll let you have the racial feat. Otherwise feel free to play as a Firbolg or whatever."

Why not leave that up to the player? You tell them about the setting. They create the connection. Everyone who makes a cohesive connection to the setting gets a racial feat at level 1. Everyone who doesn't, doesn't.

It's typically easier to work in the base races because well...they're the base races. That doesn't mean a base race connection to the setting will be better or meaningful, you might just be a farmer, or a guard, or a merchant, or a thief, nothing spectacular, much like 99% of real humans.

But I'd leave that task up to the players. They should be the ones bearing the burden of creating a character with a meaningful connection to the setting, and I guarantee you that the connection they create will be more valuable to them than whatever connection you create for them.

[DeadMech]

Why not just let your players play what they want? How is a wood elf or a high elf in the party such a detriment to the game that you feel the need to soft ban them?

And if you absolutely have to have your setting be somewhere where such and such does not exist or at least does not adventure why not just refluff the races that don't fit into some other race or racial variant that does so that players can still make a character that they would enjoy. Whether that be mechanically, ascetically, social position... whatever it was that drew them to that race to begin with.

If rangers and druids exist then the kinds of environments wood elves flourished in probably do too. Maybe the people in your setting who did are just humans but culturally and to some level even physiologically would have adapted to that environment. Maybe they aren't long eared and maybe they aren't the descendants of demigods tinged of the feywild but they would still have pretty good reason to be aware of their surroundings, prepared to defend themselves, and generally in touch with the ecosystem in which they depend.

Frankly I don't buy into the idea that you can't trust your players to make characters that fit. Two reasons.

1: Try it and they might pleasantly surprise you
2: Even if they don't it's dnd, not a new york times best sellers novel. There was a better than 50% chance someone was going to name their character something incredibly stupid or cringy or show up with no idea what their backstory was regardless.

Yes those reasons fall on completely opposite sides of the spectrum of player creativity but well... players tend to fall in a wide range of creativity.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

It's not impossible, I could make a generic high fantasy setting where everyone has an elf as a neighbor and a cousin that's a genasi, but then none of PCs are special. Conversely If they are all super fantastical in a more mundane then every single person is going to have their mind blown to be talking to a Tabaxi or DragonBorn or worse, every time the Tiefling shows up she has to roll persuasion checks to not be burned at the stake. If my player wants to be a Tiefling, I want that to matter, I want NPCs to react to that, but this isn't a Novel and I have other PCs who are also playing. If every session is about the Genasi trying to avoid wizards that want to harvest his magical organs, that's not fair to the Human and the Halfling at the table.

They reason I want to incentivise certain choices is because no matter what they choose, that choice will matter. What's the point of being a Centaur if no one cares you are a Centaur, but if everyone is making a big deal about you being a Centaur how do you get anything done?

We are playing in a homebrew world, and I want to tie the players to the world. If my player wants to be a Human noble, I'm going to ask a few question about their family, mine their Backstory for insight, then I'm going to create an entire history for this family, how they became noble, how the people see them, what are their holdings etc. I can't do the same with a Loxodon. If a village is being threatened by an orc horde, the stakes are that much higher if your childhood best friend is the Elderman of that village, but if you are an Aarokacra why should you give a damn? Again I could come up with something hand wavy or a contrivance, but it wouldn't be as organic or immersive.

Elves are the only race that I outright ban, and even then I let them play any elf race, they are just reskined as a half elf. So for example if a player wanted to be a High Elf, they would have all the stats and abilities mechanically of a High Elf(except the trance, for lore reasons), but in game thematically they are a Half Elf.

I'm not a hard ass Dm who cares more about his setting than his players. If you had a player that wanted to be a Ranger whose favored terrain was Forest would you not forewarn him that your campaign was going to take place in a desert? This is my way of encouraging players to choose races that NPCs will be able to deal with.

[Maelynn]

I don't think any of us here would have an issue with a DM making a specific setting and making it so that certain species will have a hard time fitting in. I think most of us have an issue with the way you go about it. You asked if it would be manipulative - yes, it is. I hate being manipulated into playing a certain race by realising that certain races get boons that others don't. I'd much rather be outright told, look I want you to play specific races because of reasons x and y. Would you please pick such a race?

Reread the part of your previous comment below, and see it from a player's POV. The way you're explaining it to us sounds quite reasonable, and if I were in your campaign then I'd be more than willing to go with your preferred races. Why? Because I appreciate you being open about it, and also because I would really like for you to weave in my PC's backstory and to make my position in the world a meaningful one.

Don't manipulate me. Don't dangle a carrot in the hope I go the direction you want. Just be honest with me. And I think the same might work for your players. Why don't you give them the below explanation and see how they react?


We are playing in a homebrew world, and I want to tie the players to the world. If my player wants to be a Human noble, I'm going to ask a few question about their family, mine their Backstory for insight, then I'm going to create an entire history for this family, how they became noble, how the people see them, what are their holdings etc. I can't do the same with a Loxodon. If a village is being threatened by an orc horde, the stakes are that much higher if your childhood best friend is the Elderman of that village, but if you are an Aarokacra why should you give a damn? Again I could come up with something hand wavy or a contrivance, but it wouldn't be as organic or immersive.

...

I'm not a hard ass Dm who cares more about his setting than his players. If you had a player that wanted to be a Ranger whose favored terrain was Forest would you not forewarn him that your campaign was going to take place in a desert? This is my way of encouraging players to choose races that NPCs will be able to deal with.

[DeadMech]

The PC's aren't the first tieflings (or whatever else) to exist in the world and they won't be the last. Some people in a setting are going to have encountered them before, some of them may not have. It doesn't have to be "Roll a persuasion check to avoid being killed on sight" with every community they come to.

Some places like small remote rural villages... yeah play up the fantasy racism, go ahead. These people probably haven't seen more than a couple miles from the mudhut they were born in and turnips fields they will die in (or was that the other way around). The only connection they have to the outside world is probably a merchant who comes through once a year to buy their crops or the King's taxman. They probably don't like anyone who's an unfamiliar outsider and it'll go much much worse if they have for some reason had one member of an unusual species visit once in the past and actually live up to the nasty reputation some race possess.

A major trade and shipping capitol on the coast. Influential people there either go to exotic places and meet exotic people or said exotic people come to them all the time. They're likely to a bit less overtly dangerous to a PC just because of their race.

There is a reason my favored setting to begin any adventure is a cosmopolitan mediterranean style trade hub. It becomes infinitely easier to justify anything and everything. You want to play X? Go ahead. I want you all to go to Y. There is a boat that'll take you at most a week's walk away from there. You're looking for Z? It's probably around here somewhere if you have the gold or the right connections.

Also depending how much you move the party around the world at some point even the most novel things wear off. Sure the Centaur or the half minotaur or whoever turned heads initially. But after a community has been saved from existential threats by someone they are probably willing to give just about anyone a fair shake and the attention can be redistributed.

As for connections I fail to see the issue. A tabaxi walks into town one day. People are at first bewildered. Maybe fearful. But he's friendly, or at the very least says he's not looking for trouble. Everyone thought he was weird at first but he quickly became friends with the elders, children, and gossips of the town because of his love of trading stories. Then one day screams are heard. Kobolds attacked farmer Jeremy's family. Our plucky taxbaxi hero comes running to help his new found friends, stumbling into three or so other people who rose to the occasion setting out to right this wrong.

Nine months after a strange but charming man came and left town a tiefling baby was found on the doorstep of the local nunnery. Her appearance was disturbing to the holy women there. The mother superior when told wasn't happy at this arrival, knowing of tales of the fiendish pact that doomed a far away King's subjects to this cursed blood but the woman who found him couldn't allow an innocent life to end so cruelly so she left the church and raised the child as her daughter. Despite the whispers behind her back growing up and the other children being pulled away from her by their parents, she grew up righteous thanks to the devout teachings of her adoptive mother. When tragedy struck she thought nothing of lending a hand to those in need even if they had previously shunned her.

No one living had seen a dwarf in these parts. This fellow was alien to the townsfolk, short and stout as well as boisterous and unimaginably hairy. People had heard of his kind but weren't they supposed to live in the foothills and mountains, living in palatial fortresses carved from the very earth? Was he an exile? A criminal thrown out of his home? A rebellious son cast out from him family? No he bellowed with laughter. He was a prospector. Sure the mountain was once rich but you can't mine the same vien of gold forever. And even if you could a simple mushroom farmer's son would never amount to anything there. He set out to find a new claim. A place with untapped wealth, a place where he would be his own king and establish a new home for any dwarves who would follow him. He had spend the last year exploring the surrounding valley, panning for gold in the rivers and tributaries. Sticking his nose into every nook and cranny bathed in the shadow of overhead earth. He was a regular at the bar so when Jeremy's son ran in for help he was there. Maybe our dwarven friend leapt to action because Jeremy's potato's made a nice vodka, maybe it was because kobolds had a good nose for buried gemstones.

There. 3 backstories for why 3 different non-humans responded to the call to adventure in a human town. All of them written in less than an hour. With even the slightest bit more effort you could explain how they'd all previously met one another at some point or the other previously.

The Dwarf came around the Tieflings house past the outskirts of town while looking for a fissure or cave to spelunk. The Tabaxi spotted the Dwarf while he was sharing gossip at the bar and curiosity made him come over the pester the prospector. The Tabaxi heard the rumors of a the mysterious handsome stranger's affair with the blacksmith's daughter who then proceeded to "visit her aunt next town over over winter" and through his snooping learned of the nun who left the convent was raising an unusual orphan alone in a hut in the woods.

[OracleofWuffing]

:smallfrown: I was expecting this to involve a story about a world inhabited by vegetables and other agricultural produce.

The honesty behind the decision is what makes the most difference. The game isn't always supposed to be players versus DM, it'll flow better if there's a mutual understanding. Hypothetically, if a player has a really cool reason for a character with a possibly annoying quirk, would you rather the player talk to you about the reason and how the quirk can be handled, or just have the player show up ready to run through with it?

On the other hand, an alternative would be to offer a different kind of benefit to races that don't get their racial bonuses with this method. I'm not well-versed enough in 5e to know of a comparable bonus, but "Everyone gets something" usually sounds better than "Someone gets something."

[suplee215]

The biggest issue I have is those feats do make a huge difference. An half-elf with elven accuracy has an easier time building their character. A level 6 samuri range half-elf champion can have elven accuracy, sharpshooter, and crossbow expert to make 4 attacks with advantage for 4d10+40+18 damage. This build usually takes to level 8 if not longer as you try to up your dex (getting elven accuracy early helps that at least on turns you use fighting spirit). The Half-Orc is the go to grappler now as he can take prodigy at level 1. THe human can now take 2 feats and make their build so far ahead of others. The variant human is the go to "I want to make a feat heavy concept, guess I need this" build and you are giving that benefit some races. I just think you are undervaluing those feats.

[Mercurias]

I plan on banning the Variant Human and allowing the UA humans at my table when I get a game going. Honestly I’m just tired of seeing Variant Humans. The UA humans aren’t perfectly balanced, but frankly I’m just tired of seeing Variant Humans.

[OverLordOcelot]

None of the Racial feats are super powerful and most of them can only be used once per short rest. Elven Accuracy sounds powerful on paper but in play it rarely makes a difference. If you have advantage making an attack you are proficient with you usually hit with out even needing to roll that 3rd die. All it really does is give you a better chance to crit. Can you honestly say that any of the PHB races with racial feats are more powerful than the Volo and MToF PC races?

I'd pick PHB races with an extra feat (even if the feat is restricted) over the supplement races pretty much every time, especially if Yuan-Ti are going to be hunted down if found out. I will say that PHB races without a bonus feat are equal or better than the added races other than one or two badly balanced ones (and yuan-ti probably has huge RP drawbacks), so they're certainly going to pull ahead with the bonus, especially half-orc barbarians and variant humans in general. Elven accuracy is powerful enough to decide racial choices for people even when it's not free, it's extremely good on a crit-fishing build. It makes a difference pretty much constantly in combat. Prodigy lets any of the races that get it become an expert grappler without having to multiclass into bard or rogue, which is quite strong. And neither of those is once per rest.

[Nagog]

How would the human work with Varient Humans? would VHumans get 2 feats if one is racially locked?

In some ways I can see the appeal to this, as some races like Dragonborn and Tiefling have some really great racial features, while Humans have, well, stat bonuses. So while I could see some of these feats becoming alternate racal features, just giving them to players who play humans may come across as unfair or biased. Half-Elves, elves, and Dwarves I think already have their niche and respective bonuses, and Dragonborn are powerful enough for a race as they are.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

Elven accuracy is powerful enough to decide racial choices for people even when it's not free, it's extremely good on a crit-fishing build. It makes a difference pretty much constantly in combat. Prodigy lets any of the races that get it become an expert grappler without having to multiclass into bard or rogue, which is quite strong. And neither of those is once per rest.

That's a good point about Prodigy but it's another case of paper vs play. Unless players want to make their whole concept around grappling it's not going to be much of an issue, and if they DO want to build their whole character around it I don't want them to have to dip just to do it. Really the only class that realizes grappling's true potential is the monk class, and monks aren't always very strong so that is somewhat mitigated(though if the player asked I'd probably let them get away with a Dexterity (Athletics) check since their body is basically a finesse weapon lol). I'd give the player opportunities to do cool things when they are grappling, but if I needed to I could plan an encounter around it. If he is famous for locking down enemies in battle, people are going to start preparing for that. I normally put my expertise into mental abilities or stealth. You really don't want to fail Stealth or Deception checks.

As for Elven Accuracy, I love that feat. It isn't really that much more effective than regular ole' advantage, but it feels so satisfying to roll all those dice, and at the end of the day satisfaction at the table is all that matters.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as argumentative, text doesn't convey tone very well.

[False God]

It's not impossible, I could make a generic high fantasy setting where everyone has an elf as a neighbor and a cousin that's a genasi, but then none of PCs are special. Conversely If they are all super fantastical in a more mundane then every single person is going to have their mind blown to be talking to a Tabaxi or DragonBorn or worse, every time the Tiefling shows up she has to roll persuasion checks to not be burned at the stake. If my player wants to be a Tiefling, I want that to matter, I want NPCs to react to that, but this isn't a Novel and I have other PCs who are also playing. If every session is about the Genasi trying to avoid wizards that want to harvest his magical organs, that's not fair to the Human and the Halfling at the table.
I feel like this is a rather sarcastic reply to other rather earnest attempts to be helpful. You don't have to create a generic mundane kitchen-sink world to be inclusive of a variety of races. It's a FANTASY world after all, and you yourself said these races exist, only they're exceedingly rare or uncommon. That doesn't mean they have to have whole empires. All of the Dragonborn in the world could simply be a few tribes consttituting 1-5k people in some distant mountaints. Now and then, one or two wander the world and they're the PCs.


They reason I want to incentivise certain choices is because no matter what they choose, that choice will matter. What's the point of being a Centaur if no one cares you are a Centaur, but if everyone is making a big deal about you being a Centaur how do you get anything done?
Again, this is wholly in the hands of the players, not you. A player will decide if their choices and connections matter to them. A player IME will be less likely to care about any connections you make for them.

If "being a centuar" means "getting a lot of attention" and you wonder how they'll get stuff done, again leave that up to the players. They'll figure it out.


We are playing in a homebrew world, and I want to tie the players to the world. If my player wants to be a Human noble, I'm going to ask a few question about their family, mine their Backstory for insight, then I'm going to create an entire history for this family, how they became noble, how the people see them, what are their holdings etc
If you're going to create their entire history for them, why do you have players?


I can't do the same with a Loxodon.
Why? All you've said is that you "can't" but haven't really given any reasons why other than IMO, you don't want to. Okay, fair you don't want to. Then just ban the race. Or ya know, if someone creates a Loxodon Noble, lets see...

They're the son of a rather business-minded Loxodon who left their nomadic tribe in a chance encounter with some human traders. Their mind for business and their excellent memory (because an elephant never forgets) led them to become something of a merchant prince, quickly using their wealth to involve themselves in politics. The PC, picking up some of the rather nomadic vibes of their species and being like, the 5th child of their household, sets off for adventure!

There, like, 30 seconds of work.


If a village is being threatened by an orc horde, the stakes are that much higher if your childhood best friend is the Elderman of that village, but if you are an Aarokacra why should you give a damn?
Last I checked, you didn't need to be the same race to be childhood friends with someone. Your Aarokacra was found as a child, and adopted by a rather bird-loving family in town, eventually the town overcame your strange appearance and welcomed you as one of their own!


Again I could come up with something hand wavy or a contrivance, but it wouldn't be as organic or immersive.
Big fat, in your opinion right there. Which is again why you ought to leave this stuff up to the players. Let them create connections as deep or as shallow as they want. Don't force your ideas down on their characters. IME, they will not take it well.


Elves are the only race that I outright ban, and even then I let them play any elf race, they are just reskined as a half elf. So for example if a player wanted to be a High Elf, they would have all the stats and abilities mechanically of a High Elf(except the trance, for lore reasons), but in game thematically they are a Half Elf.
A mommy elf and a daddy human make a helf-elf. So uh, why are you kosher will Loxodon (even if you're not really but won't ban it) but not elves? This is so far, the least sensical thing I've seen.


I'm not a hard ass Dm who cares more about his setting than his players. If you had a player that wanted to be a Ranger whose favored terrain was Forest would you not forewarn him that your campaign was going to take place in a desert? This is my way of encouraging players to choose races that NPCs will be able to deal with.
Well, it certainly sounds the opposite of that. And your final line here sounds more like "I don't want to deal with your character's weirdness, so I'm just gonna take that out via NPCs who won't work with you."

So yeah, just ban the races you don't want people to play. Obviously you're willing to ban races otherwise you wouldn't ban elves. But it's also clear you REALLY don't want anyone to play anything outside the basics. There's nothing wrong with that, just be honest about it.

[Nagog]

It's not impossible, I could make a generic high fantasy setting where everyone has an elf as a neighbor and a cousin that's a genasi, but then none of PCs are special. Conversely If they are all super fantastical in a more mundane then every single person is going to have their mind blown to be talking to a Tabaxi or DragonBorn or worse, every time the Tiefling shows up she has to roll persuasion checks to not be burned at the stake. If my player wants to be a Tiefling, I want that to matter, I want NPCs to react to that, but this isn't a Novel and I have other PCs who are also playing. If every session is about the Genasi trying to avoid wizards that want to harvest his magical organs, that's not fair to the Human and the Halfling at the table.

They reason I want to incentivise certain choices is because no matter what they choose, that choice will matter. What's the point of being a Centaur if no one cares you are a Centaur, but if everyone is making a big deal about you being a Centaur how do you get anything done?

We are playing in a homebrew world, and I want to tie the players to the world. If my player wants to be a Human noble, I'm going to ask a few question about their family, mine their Backstory for insight, then I'm going to create an entire history for this family, how they became noble, how the people see them, what are their holdings etc. I can't do the same with a Loxodon. If a village is being threatened by an orc horde, the stakes are that much higher if your childhood best friend is the Elderman of that village, but if you are an Aarokacra why should you give a damn? Again I could come up with something hand wavy or a contrivance, but it wouldn't be as organic or immersive.

Elves are the only race that I outright ban, and even then I let them play any elf race, they are just reskined as a half elf. So for example if a player wanted to be a High Elf, they would have all the stats and abilities mechanically of a High Elf(except the trance, for lore reasons), but in game thematically they are a Half Elf.

I'm not a hard ass Dm who cares more about his setting than his players. If you had a player that wanted to be a Ranger whose favored terrain was Forest would you not forewarn him that your campaign was going to take place in a desert? This is my way of encouraging players to choose races that NPCs will be able to deal with.

From the sounds of it, the issue isn't that those players are choosing an uncommon race, it's that you're relying far too heavily on race to determine interaction and role play. If this is a fantasy medieval setting (as most D&D campaigns are), people aren't going to give a crap about what race you are. In a harsh and dangerous world like these, a persons ability to accomplish tasks and overcome obstacles is far more important than whether or not their ears are pointy or they have a tail. Racism is born of ignorance and fear of the unknown and inexperience with coping with new things. In a world where things like Goblins, Magic, Dragons, Divine Intervention, and the like are uncommon at best, society should be able to handle people of other races.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

@FalseGod I think a little more context is required that I should have provided earlier. All my players are new. Everyone that plays with me is learning how to play, most of them only know D&D from stranger things. I am very involved with their character creation but I don't write there backstory for them. It's like an interview, I ask them a bunch questions and their answers become cannon. I care about their characters (sometimes more than they do).

Yes they could fall on the old Y raised by X trope but that's suuuuper cheesy. What's the point of being an Aarokacra if you are just acting like a human with wings? And again if that's what the player wants I'll let them do it I'm just giving them some incentives if they play the "boring" races.

Your Loxodon idea reminds me of an Arcan Trickster Minotaur PC that I had, the back alleys were his Labyrinth and his ability to memorize patterns helped him learn spells. His adventuring career began when the local lord offered him a pardon in return for rendering a "simple" service.

The Elves are banned because of story reasons. They and the rest of the fey are basically aliens from another realm. They are secretly at fault for a few of the world's woes such as the creation of the
Goblinoids. Their activities and motivations are largely unknown to the mundane races. One Human nation (Fantasy Not-France) in particular has a monopoly on trade with elves and they guard that monopoly jealously. But again you can have all the stuff that elves have, your just story wise a half-elf.

Again I didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, I think text is making all of us sound a little more disrespectful than we mean. I think if you guys were at the table then you would see this is not an issue at all. The free feat isn't THAT big and juicy as a carrot. Dwarven Fortitude isn't going to convince anyone that wants to fly right off the bat not to be an Aarokacra.

Remember, I've already done this and it was fine. The Wood elf druid was fine with being half elven, the half-orc fighter was already going to be a half-orc, and The Human Rogue picked Human over Goblin for the extra skills. Then we all drank beer, ate chips, and played a fun game that will probably end up becoming a full on campaign.

[Nagog]

@FalseGod I think a little more context is required that I should have provided earlier. All my players are new. Everyone that plays with me is learning how to play, most of them only know D&D from stranger things. I am very involved with their character creation but I don't write there backstory for them. It's like an interview, I ask them a bunch questions and their answers become cannon. I care about their characters (sometimes more than they do).

Yes they could fall on the old Y raised by X trope but that's suuuuper cheesy. What's the point of being an Aarokacra if you are just acting like a human with wings? And again if that's what the player wants I'll let them do it I'm just giving them some incentives if they play the "boring" races.

Your Loxodon idea reminds me of an Arcan Trickster Minotaur PC that I had, the back alleys were his Labyrinth and his ability to memorize patterns helped him learn spells. His adventuring career began when the local lord offered him a pardon in return for rendering a "simple" service.

The Elves are banned because of story reasons. They and the rest of the fey are basically aliens from another realm. They are secretly at fault for a few of the world's woes such as the creation of the
Goblinoids. Their activities and motivations are largely unknown to the mundane races. One Human nation (Fantasy Not-France) in particular has a monopoly on trade with elves and they guard that monopoly jealously. But again you can have all the stuff that elves have, your just story wise a half-elf.

Again I didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, I think text is making all of us sound a little more disrespectful than we mean. I think if you guys were at the table then you would see this is not an issue at all. The free feat isn't THAT big and juicy as a carrot. Dwarven Fortitude isn't going to convince anyone that wants to fly right off the bat not to be an Aarokacra.

Remember, I've already done this and it was fine. The Wood elf druid was fine with being half elven, the half-orc fighter was already going to be a half-orc, and The Human Rogue picked Human over Goblin for the extra skills. Then we all drank beer, ate chips, and played a fun game that will probably end up becoming a full on campaign.

Then it all sounds good. I personally allow for starting feats no matter what race they player decides to take, and haven't seen really any terrible balancing issues with it. It may be seen as favoritism towards these regular races over the fantasy ones, but if that's how you decide to run your game, have at it.

[False God]

@FalseGod I think a little more context is required that I should have provided earlier. All my players are new. Everyone that plays with me is learning how to play, most of them only know D&D from stranger things. I am very involved with their character creation but I don't write there backstory for them. It's like an interview, I ask them a bunch questions and their answers become cannon. I care about their characters (sometimes more than they do).

Yes they could fall on the old Y raised by X trope but that's suuuuper cheesy. What's the point of being an Aarokacra if you are just acting like a human with wings? And again if that's what the player wants I'll let them do it I'm just giving them some incentives if they play the "boring" races.
If they're all new and all raised on stuff like Stranger Things, I'd argue that sticking to the base races and sticking to the "tropes" would be a better approach.


Your Loxodon idea reminds me of an Arcan Trickster Minotaur PC that I had, the back alleys were his Labyrinth and his ability to memorize patterns helped him learn spells. His adventuring career began when the local lord offered him a pardon in return for rendering a "simple" service.
See, not hard at all to work in loxodon.


The Elves are banned because of story reasons. They and the rest of the fey are basically aliens from another realm. They are secretly at fault for a few of the world's woes such as the creation of the
Goblinoids. Their activities and motivations are largely unknown to the mundane races. One Human nation (Fantasy Not-France) in particular has a monopoly on trade with elves and they guard that monopoly jealously. But again you can have all the stuff that elves have, your just story wise a half-elf.
But they apparently still like to bone the humans on a regular basis. Or are half-elves more like tieflings and are true-breeding, ie: two half elves make a half-elf, and a half-elf woman and a human male make a half-elf? Otherwise you've got some weird lore problems going on here where these strange alien races that can't be played still somehow like to form relationships with humans and get jiggy.


Again I didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, I think text is making all of us sound a little more disrespectful than we mean. I think if you guys were at the table then you would see this is not an issue at all. The free feat isn't THAT big and juicy as a carrot. Dwarven Fortitude isn't going to convince anyone that wants to fly right off the bat not to be an Aarokacra.

Remember, I've already done this and it was fine. The Wood elf druid was fine with being half elven, the half-orc fighter was already going to be a half-orc, and The Human Rogue picked Human over Goblin for the extra skills. Then we all drank beer, ate chips, and played a fun game that will probably end up becoming a full on campaign.
Well, if it's not an issue and the table is already cool with it, then I suppose you answered your first question "is this fair?" your players certainly seem to think so and that matters.

So I'll answer the second question and say I absolutely can't stand this kind of manipulation.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

But they apparently still like to bone the humans on a regular basis. Or are half-elves more like tieflings and are true-breeding, ie: two half elves make a half-elf, and a half-elf woman and a human male make a half-elf? Otherwise you've got some weird lore problems going on here where these strange alien races that can't be played still somehow like to form relationships with humans and get jiggy.

No it doesn't happen very often but the genetics are strong. So maybe someone boned an elf 1,000 years ago then the offspring had 5 kids and those kids had 5 kids so on and so forth. Elves are extremely mutable that's why there are so many types. Their "magical DNA" is able to adapt to allow breeding with other races. Pinching a bit from standard lore, there are a finite number of elven souls that are reincarnated. When an elf goes into the trance the see their past lives. Half-elves don't go into the trance so many Elves believe they are soulless, and so are reluctant to bring them into the world out of pity.

[SVamp]

None of the Racial feats are super powerful and most of them can only be used once per short rest. Elven Accuracy sounds powerful on paper but in play it rarely makes a difference. If you have advantage making an attack you are proficient with you usually hit with out even needing to roll that 3rd die. All it really does is give you a better chance to crit. Can you honestly say that any of the PHB races with racial feats are more powerful than the Volo and MToF PC

Ok... So I think I’ll roll either an elven gloom stalker ranger 5/Assassin X, with starting 18 dex & elven accuracy from point buy, and sharpshooter at lvl 4. Can’t see any way it’d be OP or anything, 9 tries to roll a crit at lvl 5 during the first round, and then applying sneak attack bonus, or a half-elf hexblade sorlock with 20 cha by lvl 4 and 3x to hit with each blast. Fun times :smalltongue:

Incidentally elven accuracy changes a 50ish to hit into an high 80ish, which is amazing with sharp shooter +10 damage or GWM (hexblade GWM), and sorcadins crit fishing for smites.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

Incidentally elven accuracy changes a 50ish to hit into an high 80ish, which is amazing with sharp shooter +10 damage or GWM (hexblade GWM), and sorcadins crit fishing for smites.

I promise it's not as powerful as it sound. Let's set a DC of 16. Give yourself a +5 (+3 added to a +2 proficiency) to rolls. Roll three d20s. Make a note of how many dice would have met the DC. Repeat 5 times. Now look at your notes. On how many rolls did only 1 die meet the DC?

The AC of the average opponent will go up as the players level up, but to will the players To-Hit. The real strength of the feat is that it gives you one more chance to crit per attack, but it doesn't really do that much to help you hit. You were probably already going to hit just with advantage.

As for the crazy builds, I don't allow multi Classing until level 6. This is because my players are all super new and I want them to really know what they are doing before they try to make a complex build. They are allowed to switch classes or subclasses though, if they aren't enjoying the one they picked initially.

[Bigmouth]

Seems odd to me that so few people limit race selection. I've been playing D&D off and on for nearly 40 years now and I've played at a lot of tables and a lot of them, if not a majority of them have had some sort of race restriction, all the way back to 1st Ed and people banning elves because of their multiclass options.

Is everyone on these boards playing in worlds where all the different settings co-mingle? Warforged, Loxodon, and Verdan automatically exist in every game world the moment that they were written into existence for specific game settings? Personally, if a race's description is filled with setting specific information (like the 3 I mentioned specifically) I'm not a fan of assuming they are an available character option. Technically, I'm not a fan of assuming anything about any game's character options. Always ask. Every game, every DM has the right to restrict, ban, alter any options IMO. If you really want a Warforged when the DM has restricted them, it is okay to ask to see if there is a way to work one in but not okay to expect that you can play one.

Can't say that I've seen the bribery option before (beyond the fact that often classes/races are broken so the game itself is 'bribing' you to play/not play certain things). As apparently one of the few people on this thread that thinks banning races is completely fine, I don't really have a problem with bribes at a table populated by non-optomizers. (which sounds like the case for the OP). Everyone will get some candy, they probably would have played your preferred races anyway if asked...but getting extra goodies is always fun.