Arameus
2007-10-09, 04:00 PM
'Versus' threads are a popular pastime on message boards, mos notably on ones like GitP in which many of the posters have broad media experience. However, I have rarely witnessed a more inherently-flawed premise put through such rigorous use. In a word, Versus threads are divisive. In two words, they are terminally interminable. In three words, they're just sorta dumb.
Versus threads are, for the four of you on the Internet who don't know, a hypothetical struggle, usually to the death, between two forces. Sometimes, albeit rarely, more forces are added or the conflict centers around a MacGuffin or the acquisition thereof, but the premise and execution aren't affected by this even a little bit.
Ideally, in a Versus thread, supporters of either side would state their cases and initiate a dialog on the respective strengths and weaknesses of the competitors, which would eventually culminate with an overwhelming majority being swayed to one side, and a victor declared, with no further debate necessary unless some heretofore-unseen point is suddenly realized that would alter the outcome.
In reality, Versus threads don't work in this way for three reasons.
First, Versus threads almost always involve massive incongruities between sides that make their conflict almost entirely inscrutable. The reasons for this is that comparable sides are often already known to have fought (UNSC versus Covenant), are simply not interesting enough (Goomba versus Koopa), or simply don't have the appeal or novelty that cross-universe conflicts have.
This leads to ridiculous match-ups whose fights range from extremely-theoretical (Protoss versus Borg) to damnedly-near inscrutable (Three Marios versus Sephiroth). The massive incongruities are what naturally lead to our second problem.
Whereas the first problem derives form the nature of the conflict, the second derives from the nature of the conflict as it affects the people arguing for one side or the other. In an incongruous matchup, the discussion of supremacy will often involve side discussions that are either far beyond the ken of the contestants or are simply impossible to determine. In the former case, we may have high-school physics students articulating the finer points of warp drive and quantum mechanics, as will inevitable come up in a conflict involving space warfare. On the other hand, there may simply be a divide to egregious to address conclusively: How in the world can three Marios and Sephiroth possibly fight? When hit, do the Marios shrink down to their little selves, which assumes they start already powered-up? or do they have life gauges like in Mario 64? And what happens when they hit Sephiroth? Does he lose hit points, or does he stagger back and blink, becoming invincible for a short time? Can he transform, or cast status effects on the Marios? Does the universe merely collapse when they touch?
Naturally, the difficulties present in either case make the argument moot. No one is qualified to make a valid conjecture about either! Although, if there are any Cal-Tech graduates here with doctorates in Quantum Physics, feel free to feed me some crow. This inevitably becomes a spiral of discussing the same things endlessly, and never coming to any solid conclusions.
Third is a problem found within the debater himself: the simple impulse to win. There is no referee standing by taking score to arbitrate the winner or the loser. No one cares, at least not by the third page or so, whether or not their side or the other has made a valid point, or even if a valid point can be made. They will simply extol the virtues of their side until the cows come home. After a time, the thread is no longer about Protoss versus Romulans; it's about Protoss Fans versus Romulan Fans, and neither side will ever back down because the arguing is only occurring for the sake of itself, so that the debaters' very fanhood may be revealed to all.
The simple fact is that once a Versus thread has begun, it will not end until it arguing any longer merely becomes distasteful to the partakers. This, of course, happens almost by necessity when incongruity is present, but is in its most obvious format when the outcome is easily decidable and the roundabout nature of the arguments isn't nearly quite so mitigated.
The solution to all of this, however, is very simple: a simple realization of the true purpose of Versus threads. A Versus thread is not about who could beat whom, it's about which side is more totally frickin' awesome. Because, admittedly, the laws of media declare that whoever is more totally frickin' awesome will win anyway. It's a popularity contest, plain and simple. It's why the 300 Spartans would have staunch supporters even if the opposition was the mighty Covenant, regardless of the knowledge that the 300 didn't even win their actual battles.
To put it simply, the only way to have a working Versus thread is to install a poll and be done with it. No discussion, no diner points of warp-drive mechanics, no deciding on whether or not to use HP. Just the barest, purest purpose of the Versus thread at work, fandom versus fandom, with an actual winner determinable for once. Granted, it still wouldn't prove anything; the supporters of the losing side aren't going to be swayed by the results, but would they have, anyway? Of course not. At least this way someone has a chance to gloat.
That's about all I have to say about it right now, but- wait, what? WHAT? What does he mean, 'the Protoss shields are inferior?!' Oh, I'm off to teach this nooblet a lesson, just you wait and see! Yes, I am actually an incurable participant in Versus threads. What, are you surprised? PROTOSS OWN YOU!
Versus threads are, for the four of you on the Internet who don't know, a hypothetical struggle, usually to the death, between two forces. Sometimes, albeit rarely, more forces are added or the conflict centers around a MacGuffin or the acquisition thereof, but the premise and execution aren't affected by this even a little bit.
Ideally, in a Versus thread, supporters of either side would state their cases and initiate a dialog on the respective strengths and weaknesses of the competitors, which would eventually culminate with an overwhelming majority being swayed to one side, and a victor declared, with no further debate necessary unless some heretofore-unseen point is suddenly realized that would alter the outcome.
In reality, Versus threads don't work in this way for three reasons.
First, Versus threads almost always involve massive incongruities between sides that make their conflict almost entirely inscrutable. The reasons for this is that comparable sides are often already known to have fought (UNSC versus Covenant), are simply not interesting enough (Goomba versus Koopa), or simply don't have the appeal or novelty that cross-universe conflicts have.
This leads to ridiculous match-ups whose fights range from extremely-theoretical (Protoss versus Borg) to damnedly-near inscrutable (Three Marios versus Sephiroth). The massive incongruities are what naturally lead to our second problem.
Whereas the first problem derives form the nature of the conflict, the second derives from the nature of the conflict as it affects the people arguing for one side or the other. In an incongruous matchup, the discussion of supremacy will often involve side discussions that are either far beyond the ken of the contestants or are simply impossible to determine. In the former case, we may have high-school physics students articulating the finer points of warp drive and quantum mechanics, as will inevitable come up in a conflict involving space warfare. On the other hand, there may simply be a divide to egregious to address conclusively: How in the world can three Marios and Sephiroth possibly fight? When hit, do the Marios shrink down to their little selves, which assumes they start already powered-up? or do they have life gauges like in Mario 64? And what happens when they hit Sephiroth? Does he lose hit points, or does he stagger back and blink, becoming invincible for a short time? Can he transform, or cast status effects on the Marios? Does the universe merely collapse when they touch?
Naturally, the difficulties present in either case make the argument moot. No one is qualified to make a valid conjecture about either! Although, if there are any Cal-Tech graduates here with doctorates in Quantum Physics, feel free to feed me some crow. This inevitably becomes a spiral of discussing the same things endlessly, and never coming to any solid conclusions.
Third is a problem found within the debater himself: the simple impulse to win. There is no referee standing by taking score to arbitrate the winner or the loser. No one cares, at least not by the third page or so, whether or not their side or the other has made a valid point, or even if a valid point can be made. They will simply extol the virtues of their side until the cows come home. After a time, the thread is no longer about Protoss versus Romulans; it's about Protoss Fans versus Romulan Fans, and neither side will ever back down because the arguing is only occurring for the sake of itself, so that the debaters' very fanhood may be revealed to all.
The simple fact is that once a Versus thread has begun, it will not end until it arguing any longer merely becomes distasteful to the partakers. This, of course, happens almost by necessity when incongruity is present, but is in its most obvious format when the outcome is easily decidable and the roundabout nature of the arguments isn't nearly quite so mitigated.
The solution to all of this, however, is very simple: a simple realization of the true purpose of Versus threads. A Versus thread is not about who could beat whom, it's about which side is more totally frickin' awesome. Because, admittedly, the laws of media declare that whoever is more totally frickin' awesome will win anyway. It's a popularity contest, plain and simple. It's why the 300 Spartans would have staunch supporters even if the opposition was the mighty Covenant, regardless of the knowledge that the 300 didn't even win their actual battles.
To put it simply, the only way to have a working Versus thread is to install a poll and be done with it. No discussion, no diner points of warp-drive mechanics, no deciding on whether or not to use HP. Just the barest, purest purpose of the Versus thread at work, fandom versus fandom, with an actual winner determinable for once. Granted, it still wouldn't prove anything; the supporters of the losing side aren't going to be swayed by the results, but would they have, anyway? Of course not. At least this way someone has a chance to gloat.
That's about all I have to say about it right now, but- wait, what? WHAT? What does he mean, 'the Protoss shields are inferior?!' Oh, I'm off to teach this nooblet a lesson, just you wait and see! Yes, I am actually an incurable participant in Versus threads. What, are you surprised? PROTOSS OWN YOU!