So, What Does The Druid Actually Do?

[Allistar]

Just the other day I had a cool Idea for a warforged druid (dunno why, but I thought it would be neat). This would have been my second time ever looking at the druid class, the first time years ago being a moon druid that didn't really use spells that often.

Upon looking at their spells I notice that they're a lot more generalist/Jack of all trades than I remember. They have some battlefield control, some heals, some damage, some utility, and some support. That combined with their wild shape left me really puzzled as to how they would play. Are they a tank, or a support? What about a controller or healer? Am I missing the potential for a spell damage druid?

What is a druid's job and how do they accomplish it?
(also how does this translate for a druid with circle of the lands)

[Contrast]

You are correct - they are generalists. Combined with knowing all their spells and being able to prepare what they want, they will generally be doing some mix of utility, battlefield control or support with the option of being able to dish out damage when needed.

I would say they were generally worse at damage than wizards and clerics but gain access to some specific utility and control/support options which are very powerful. Spells like Conjure Animals provide a beautiful mix of potential utility, control, support and damage :smallbiggrin:

[Corpsecandle717]

Druids, especially Moon, do pretty much everything. They're not the best at any role, but they're pretty good at every role. The really amazing part about them is that they can fill any role as needed, without much preparation. There were several times that I started a fight as DPR, then had to swap to help healing in the middle of melee, then swap to tank/support in the middle of combat. Making sure to invest in at least one feat that helps keep your concentration is always a good idea.

Also read this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545558-5e-Druid-Handbook-Dreams-Land-Moon-and-Shepherd&highlight=hymer

[CaptAl]

I would say that druids do whatever is needed. Their strengths lie in control, support, and summoning though. Specific subclasses can boost those roles, or add others.

Damage from druids tend to be mediocre. Not that a druid can't lay some hurt down, it's just not their strength. More of an endurance fight with lots of damage over time stuff whilst doing other things to irritate the opponents.

[Sparky McDibben]

The Circle of Land druid is essentially the "wizard" druid. They are a support/controller caster with a few strong utility features (Wild Shape, Land's Stride, etc) and the ability to get some spell slots back on a short rest. Unlike wizards, though, druids know all of their spells, so if you can take a long rest and get some good intel, you're the party toolbox.

[tieren]

As others have said the main use of the land druid is support and control.

When you look at a spell like flaming sphere for example, don't focus on how much damage you can do with it. Think of it in terms of area denial and control. Yes you could ram it into someone for some hp damage or you could park it in the doorway to stop the reinforcements from coming in.

Do you have a grappler in your party or a warlock that likes to knock people back? Look at spike growth. Not because you are going to do much with it, but because it will support the party do its thing better.

Compare the third level power spells. For a blaster you are looking at fireball, for an enchanter illusionist it may be hypnotic pattern, but for a druid it is plant growth. Plant growth has a massive area, automatically slows creatures to 1/4 their movement speed with no save, and is entirely customizable by the caster to be party friendly. I had an NPC druid use it against a party and the melee fighters whined for days about not being able to rush up and save the party scout and having no defense or recourse to avoid the effect.

[airless_wing]

To me, the Druid (especially land, with their expanded prepared spells) are Swiss army knives: they have so many tools at their disposal for any situation. There are few stealth activities that aren't made trivial with pass without trace, or by wild shaping into a tiny spider. For combat, crowd control and support should be the bread & butter: Faerie Fire, Entangle, Spike Growth, Plant Growth, and even Conjure Animals are all great tools for a wide variety of situations. Most of their utilize spells are fantastic: have everyone in your party/escort mission carry a particular berry/seed, and you can always find them with Locate Plants. Beast Messenger is a ritual that allows for safe long distance communication, and I've broken at least one encounter by using Speak with Plants at the right time.

There have been encounters where my druid has been able to lock down all the opponents and the team has remained unscathed; other times I could use Conjure Animals to herd enemies into compromising positions, all while those summons ate damage that otherwise would've hit the team, then dropped a Spike Growth once the summons died so that the enemies were trapped with restricted, damaging movement.

(Land) Druids are not blasters; they are highly versatile, with a wide variety of in-and-out of combat options. Many of their combat spells target a variety fo saving throws as well, so you can pick an opponents weakness to exploit it.

Druids are utility; unless you pick odd spells to prepare, you'll NEVER run out of options for useful things to do.

[LibraryOgre]

And Moon Druids tend to be tanks. Between the covering HP for the animal form, and the ability to burn spell slots to heal, a Moon Druid can just keep taking it.

[Ninja_Prawn]

As others have said the main use of the land druid is support and control.

Yeah. I think that the people saying that druids are jacks-of-all-trades are missing quite how good they are at battlefield control. All of the best spells for shaping the terrain and managing the flow of a battle are on the druid list, and they have the best minionmancy of any class. The only other class that comes close is wizards, and they're nowhere near as durable as druids when the going gets tough.

I recently had one encounter that was theoretically balanced (if 'deadly') for the party, but the party consists of 2/5 pacifists with almost no combat effectiveness and they had a gaggle of vulnerable NPCs to protect, which complicated matters. Things could have gone very badly, but the druid really brought his A game. He orchestrated the whole combat from the sidelines, and basically won it singlehandedly. A masterclass in druidry.

[Vogie]

Upon looking at their spells I notice that they're a lot more generalist/Jack of all trades than I remember. They have some battlefield control, some heals, some damage, some utility, and some support. That combined with their wild shape left me really puzzled as to how they would play. Are they a tank, or a support? What about a controller or healer? Am I missing the potential for a spell damage druid?

What is a druid's job and how do they accomplish it?
(also how does this translate for a druid with circle of the lands)

It's similar to a Bard - largely a support character with their various subclasses focuses in various styles of their abilities.

Their spellcasting is the definition of middling - Their main ranged cantrip is Produce Flame, a d8, and Shillelagh, which turns clubs & staves into d8+Wis weapons. Their higher level spells are gated largely by concentration, but are decently powerful. They can heal, but most of that power is via Healing Spirit, which is mostly powerful out of combat.
Wild shape is largely a utility, similar to a Wizard's Familiar or Transmutation Stone. Sneaking into places as rats & spiders, shifting into badger form for a burrow speed, becoming a wolf for advantage on Perception, shifting into a warhorse for a land speed of 60ft, Ape for grapple bonuses, or giant centipede/spider for blindsight, et cetera. This upgrades into swim and fly speed forms as you go

Land Druids act the most like Wizards as a Controller/Blasters, although it largely varies based on the selected domain.
Dreams Druids are the support subclass, keeping your party alive and safe
Shepherd Druids are a fairly unique playstyle based on moveable auras and summoning spells, creating a minion-mancer
Moon Druids weaponize the Wild shaping aspect, allowing the Druid to act as a melee brawler in animal forms. Combat Wild Shape allows the Druid to heal himself without shifting back & forth, and the various concentration spells can be maintained - Such as fighting in bear form, but with Barkskin running.
Spore Druids are their Gish option, similar to a Hexblade Warlock, allowing the Druid to actively weave their magic in between melee attacks, and gain the most benefit from their items.

[Nhym]

I never see nearly enough love for the Shepherd Druid. 8x summoning anything is insane, and they really can do anything like the moon druid and while the moon druid has to drop in and out of wild shape to do different things, the shepherd druid is still a full caster while his summons are out. The only thing they really can't do well is burst damage.

[Daithi]

I'd say the two main tactics are using wild shape at lower levels to serve as a tank. At mid to higher levels it is summoning animals to cause foes to waste attacks on the animals/fey and to provide advantage to melee allies also attacking those foes. Then as others have said, to provide general support as required. (They can make really good thieves.)

[Fable Wright]

As people have been saying, a Druid does basically everything. Jack of all trades, master of two (Battlefield Control, Minions).

That said, that's only a broad picture. What does a Druid do at each tier, to be most effective?

Tier 1: Goodberry is a spell on your list, and can heal for up to 24 hours after you cast it. The night before you go into a dungeon, cast Goodberry with all your unexpended spell slots before you go to sleep. If you used no spells on your day off, you now have somewhere between 20 (at level 1) and 70 (at level 4) out of combat heals to provide your team.

In combat, if you get the drop on a dangerous group of enemies, you use Entangle or Spike Growth to neutralize them; or if a fight has already devolved into an unorganized melee, support your friends with Thunderwave or Moonbeam (or Heat Metal, but I never seem to have the preparations left over for it...)

Out of combat, you can handle quite a lot of useful niches; Speak With Animals is one of the best information-gathering spells of the level, along with Beast Senses in a pinch. For long-range scouting, Animal Messenger on a bird in a cage, followed up by Beast Sense on the bird and then opening the cage, gets you a long-range scout with no risk to the party at all.

For stealth, you can turn into a spider and sneak around; or you can use Pass Without Trace to let the whole party move unseen.

If you're a Moon Druid, I guess you could also turn into the strongest melee combatant in the game at this level? That's cool too, I guess.

Tier 2: Your staple spells are probably Conjure Animals, Speak With Plants and Plant Growth. Conjure Animals has excellent out of combat and in-combat utility. A pack of eight wolves can deal more damage in one turn than a Fireball to a single target, all attacking at advantage, and offering allies the benefits of a Prone foe. As well as this, you can use their nose for sniffing out enemies; use them as sentries or scouts, with a loud howl as an alert; and any hit they take is a hit your party doesn't. Plant Growth is like an Entangle that doesn't offer a save; and Speak With Plants essentially makes all enemies half as fast as your party. Combine all three for complete battlefield mastery!

As before, you can dominate some encounters before they begin with Entangle and Spike Growth, but now things are opening up. You've got a lot more spells available to support the party with rituals and Pass Without Trace. Starting at 4th level, you can get access to Polymorph, which can be used to turn an ally at the brink of going down into a full-sized Giant Ape. You also get Conjure Woodland Beings, which you can use to summon two Dryads and get 60 HP worth of Goodberries, plus Barkskin and Pass Without Trace and Speak With Animals for an hour (plus a Charm effect), Entangles, and so on. You could also summon Quicklings, which are summons with excellent ranged capacity and make for excellent scouts and thieves.

On paper you could technically summon pixies, I guess. Don't.

Moon Druids also around this point begin getting some excellent battlefield control options; turning into a Giant Scorpion for grappling zones can be quite useful. In general, by this point, Wild Shape is more for soaking damage and attention than doing damage.

For all other Druids, your Wild Shape is now big enough that you can taxi 1-2 party members around through unusual terrain like ice, rock walls, air, or water; you can extract your own venom; there's a lot of stuff you can do.

For Land druids (who have the extra preparations), one of my favorite spells this level is Water Walk. Combined with Control Water, you can bury your foes under a 20' wall of water while staying high and dry; or traverse Transmute Rock created mud to decimate enemies trapped by the effect. Remember that water is the deadliest thing in D&D, and it's under your control.

Tier 3: You are now a spellcasting battery. With Conjure Fey at level 7, you can Planar Bind Korred or Bheur Hags; the former can have their own summons; do excellent single-target ranged damage; and tie foes up with their hair and Irresistible Dance; the latter have access to Cone of Cold thrice per day, plus more casts of Wall of Ice and Ice Storm; and Hold Person at will; and early access to Control Weather. Conjurer Wizards cry with envy, that their Elemental Myrmidons just aren't in the same league.

If you speak with your DM, you may be able to summon three Sea Hags just before combat and get them into a coven within a minute or two. Having access to an 11th level Wizard with three actions per turn, on demand, is no small boon. Even if the save DCs are really bad at this level.

You're also the only caster to have Bones of the Earth, which is a non-Concentration Wall of Stone. At higher levels, access to Antipathy/Sympathy and Animal Shapes give you a broader role than a master of some Planar Bound summons.

At this level, Wild Shape has lost most of its luster; some of its biggest utility is Moon Druids' Elemental Forms, where they get even better movement modes and a few utility effects.

Remember to burn your unused slots on Goodberries! Slots of 4th level or higher can become Dryads to summon 60 HP per slot for your next day, and slots of 1st-3rd level chip into the pool. With as many summons as you're likely to have, the healing really adds up!

Tier 4: Two things have changed.

First, you have Shapechange.

Second, you have non-Concentration flight via Wildshape, and you can cast spells with it now.

A combination of shapechanging into a dragon, plus several Cones of Cold thrown out by your Planar Bound Bheur Hag Coven, should make short work of most enemies.

Oh, and at level 20 you get immunity to counterspell, a repleneshing HP buffer on demand (that scales absurdly with Moon Druid), and the general lulz of being able to be a normal bird to any non-Truesight eyes while raising absolute hell via concentration spells... and no one being any the wiser.

[Chronos]

Quoth Ninja_Prawn:

All of the best spells for shaping the terrain and managing the flow of a battle are on the druid list
Hm, I never actually noticed before that Mirage Arcane is on the druid list, but double-checking just now, it looks like you're right. I had thought that they only got the weaker Hallucinatory Terrain.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Hm, I never actually noticed before that Mirage Arcane is on the druid list, but double-checking just now, it looks like you're right. I had thought that they only got the weaker Hallucinatory Terrain.

Yup. Along with storm of vengeance, tsunami, earthquake, control weather, antipathy/sympathy, whirlwind, reverse gravity, fire storm, wall of thorns, move earth, bones of the earth, wall of stone, transmute rock, maelstrom, control winds, wall of fire, stone shape, ice storm, grasping vine, control water, wind wall, sleet storm, plant growth, call lightning, spike growth, hold person, gust of wind, flaming sphere, watery sphere, earthbind, longstrider, jump, earth tremor, fog cloud, shape water, mold earth, thorn whip, gust, freedom of movement, wind walk, water walk... It's a staggering suite of spells for controlling where both friend and foe are able to go, at any given level. And that's before you even consider how good summons are for controlling the battlefield!

And you know all of them automatically, unlike a ranger or wizard!!

[Mercurias]

What is a druid's job and how do they accomplish it?

Druids are versatile casters that are able to:
-Heal and buff allies effectively
-Control and debuff enemies effectively
-Use their Wild Shape feature for both stealth/espionage and combat.

Druids have Medium Armor Proficiency and the ability to use shields, which makes them sturdier than the average Wizard without Mage Armor. Druids cannot wear metal, however, so you’ll have to talk to your DM about finding or making chiton/animal scale/ironwood armor instead (unless they just waive the restriction).

Druids have the Pass Without a Trace Spell, which, along with their animal forms, makes them strong contenders for being the stealthiest caster in general (in specific, Bladesinger Wizards and Trickster Clerics can be pretty stealthy too).

Druids, particularly Shepherd Druids, are probably the strongest Summoners/Minionmancers in the game. Their summon spells are much quicker to cast than a Wizard’s, and unlike a Wizard’s Demon-Summoning spells they also won’t have the potential of your minion turning on you.

The biggest weakness of a Druid is in their ability to deal straight damage. In exchange for their healing and control, they lack the blasting ability of a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock. Their weapon attacks and proficiencies are likewise pretty unimpressive, overall. They can be fairly solid resourceless damage dealers with the right cantrips, but choose your cantrips wisely, because they don’t get many of them compared to other casters.

Another weakness for Druids is that many of their best spells are concentration-based, possibly more than any other caster. It’s a good idea to keep this in mind when planning your spell list, since you can easily bloat it full of really nice concentration spells that can only run one at a time and have limited uses for your action.

Feats like Resilient (Con) and/or Warcaster, which improve a Druid’s ability to pass concentration checks, are highly recommended. Other strong contenders for Druid Feats include Magic Initiate (for either Cleric damaging cantrips or Wizard utility cantrips and Shield), Ritual Caster (Wizard), or grappling feats if you’re playing a Moon Druid and want to wrestle people as a Bear or Earth Elemental.




(also how does this translate for a druid with circle of the lands)

Land Druids are the Druids who love casting spells so much that they get extra domain spells, recover spell slots on a short rest like Wizards, and get an extra cantrip. It’s my opinion that they’re probably the most versatile Druid Circle, but in exchange for that versatility they don’t get the Moon Druid’s more effective Wildshaping in combat, Dream Druid’s support abilities, or Shepherd Druid’s extra-powerful summons.

When determining which Land you specifically want for your character, I’d look over the spell lists for spells that Druids don’t normally have access to, like Grassland Druids getting Haste, Underdark Druids getting Greater Invisibility, or Mountain Druids getting Lightning Bolt.

[Tanarii]

The way I see Druids:
- Like Clerics and Bards, the primary purpose is buff/debuff/heals. (What 4e called a Leader.)
- Like Clerics, they're tough defense full casters, although they do it with wildshape HP soak. (Yes, even non-Moon. Moon just does it better.)
- And then they have a solid splash of offensive elemental/nature themed spells to round them out.

[Nagog]

I've found that for druids, their identity is usually set by their subclass. Moon Druids tend to be tanky, with their tanking generally being a combo of the Barbarian's large HP pool and the Monk's mobility and versatility. Land druids are focused on their spellcasting, becoming essentially Wizards with slightly more variety of skills at the cost of a different, less impactful spell list. Dream Druids have a bit of a unique role that requires a bit more planning and RP setup to use their skills, but without that they tend to be general spellcasters. Spores Druids seem to be more combat and control (Potential for Minionmancy with Animate Dead and Fungal Infestation), however I haven't yet used one or seen one in play, so that's conjecture.

[Skylivedk]

I'd argue that the Shepherd Druid is both one of the best summoners AND healers in the game. Unicorn spirit at level 10 can easily heal +40 hp with a Healing Word. Insane value. They have tons of spell battery summons. Either op or borderline op IMO

[DarkKnightJin]

I'd say the two main tactics are using wild shape at lower levels to serve as a tank. At mid to higher levels it is summoning animals to cause foes to waste attacks on the animals/fey and to provide advantage to melee allies also attacking those foes. Then as others have said, to provide general support as required. (They can make really good thieves.)

The Kobold Moon Druid (Urchin background) that I played in a one-shot would agree. +7 on Stealth, Sleight of Hand, and Thieves' Tools. Before any spells or Wild Shape comes into it.
Add the well-placed and well-timed Spike Growth in one fight, that brought 8 out of 14 reinforcements down quite a bit on their way into the battle area, and the Moonbeam that was turned onto the 'microwave' for the Barbarian and Fighter to yeet the enemies into.
The 2ft tall scaly rat was the MVP that session by sheer Damage over Time he put out.

[Kyutaru]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned but Druids are also sort of elemental warriors. They have the necessary grit for frontline activity while being able to summon replacement weapons. Control Water lets them command pools to attack the enemy for 10 minutes, Flame Blade lets them summon fire to attack the enemy for 10 minutes, Call Lightning lets them summon lightning bolts to attack the enemy for 10 minutes, and similar storms and long duration spells let them exchange future actions for a magical attack. Despite dealing damage, these are more like buff spells that give them new ways of attacking that are much stronger than a spear stab and can take advantage of vulnerabilities or overcome resistances.

Similar to Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, they can easily mix magic and melee with more of a focus on the magic part and commanding a variety of elements or plants.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned but Druids are also sort of elemental warriors.

At a guess, I'd say the reason it hasn't been mentioned yet is because 'elemental warrior' is not a metagame role in 5e. Hardly any monsters have elemental weaknesses, so the elemental schtick ends up being more for flavour than anything concrete.

It's kind of a shame, but what can you do? It's just the way this game is.

[sambojin]

"Free spell slots" and control. And summons, that can DPR, or become a behemoth hour long restrain-on-hit/prone/blind+paralyze/utility thingo. And spell batteries. And other stuff. So much stuff in summons.... And being better at some things classes "do", while not being tied down to doing just that, even on any particular encounter, let alone day. Oh, and they have a few nice dips too.

But basically it comes down to free spell slots and super control. Long and strong, but not freakishly broken like wizards or anything (only joking. Druids are pretty busted).

Moon gets its spell slots from wildshape. They do restrain-on-hit, or blind/paralyze, or reaction/knockback. Their damage isn't great after tier 1-2, and you honestly only want to tank and spank when necessary. You apply conditions (sometimes from range) in wildshape while your summons or spells do the real damage. Or put even more conditions on more enemies. When the summons are gone, you're still able to put something horrible on an enemy, for hours afterwards, just by attacking. Spell-slot worthy stuff/conditions. Their dip is War Cleric 1 or 2. It gets pretty amazing with bonus-attack-chances or +10 to-hit on important occasions. But even bless is amazing for restrain-on-hit or high-DC proning.
(or you could dip Monk 1, if you really want to tank for some reason. But War is incredible for what you get out of it. You're a full-caster that *can* tank, that doesn't mean you should. You have nearly unlimited condition generation to think about, not DPR for and against).
In some respects, Moon is like having two sets of concentration. Lots of, better than Sorcerors. Round 1, use a control spell, first concentration done. Round 2, wildshape into a condition generator form and attack, giving you your second "lvl1-3 spell concentration'y effect" in progress. Keep attacking, but try not to tank. Not your job, you're a full caster, with two sets of concentration effects going. They can take the first one off you by hitting you, but they have to hit you a lot to get rid of the second constantly retargetted one. Don't let them do either if you can manage it.

Lands get free spell slots from Natural Recovery. Just like a Wizard. And a bit of versatility through an open spell list, little wildshape (still get large flying at 8), and bonus known spells. Their dip is Divination Wizard 2, just to make those spells stick. It may eventually become some sort of Artificer dip instead though.

Shepherds get free spell slots from totems and summon HP. You keep people up better, heal better, have a definite advantage giver, and your summons last longer and can damage anything. It's better than it sounds, but probably not quite as good as a well played Moon or Land. Don't really need a dip. They're really very good, and nothing stands out as amazeballs to make them OP. I guess you could dip Life Cleric 1, if you wanted to go into silly realms of healing.

Spores get them from, ummm, spores? It's kind of like having PAM or a few extra pips of False Life and Ice Dagger each short rest. Oh, you get little wildshape too, if that doesn't sound very good. It kinda isn't. But they use each other up as well, so you don't get a lot. Their dip is, ummm, fighter? Maybe?

So, yeah. Generalists with free spell slots, an in-built incredibly handy "spell" in wildshape, and their actual spells last a fair while. Somewhere between clerics and warlocks, but specifically worse at damage, while being kind of awesome at everything else (including making your party DPR way higher than whatever damage you could do yourself anyway). Except spore druid. Don't worry about them.

Or dreams. Never played one. Can't comment.


(oh, and never worry about not being able to do single target, instant damage as a druid. Stuff like summoned Jaculi make that an idiotic argument. 4x 4d6+2 damage, 60' attack range, repeatable, at +4 to-hit with advantage is fine (about equivalent to +7/+8 to-hit), large target so body-blocks everything as a damage sponge and gives you cover. Get snakey on your summons, and maybe octopussy and spidery too. Make it your thing. They rock. Essentially your version of scorching ray, but with damage and shielding. Wolves are nothing compared to lumps of damage or blindsight or restrain-on-hit, especially when one cast might keep springing or climbing or restricting or slurping around for a while. Snakesies and spiders and octopi, oh my!).

[Zuras]

The thing about Druids is they are Shapeshifters, both literally and figuratively. Moon Druids are probably the most effectve class in higher level Adventurers League play when dealing with oddly constructed parties. They can tank, heal, provide crowd control, or even drop AoEs if needed. They can’t tank like a bear barbarian or dump AoEs like an Evoker Wizard, but they can do it well enough to cover a party’s weaknesses.

In Tier 3, my moon Druid has been the tank in a party of 3 Rogues and a Monk, the Healer/Controller in a Fighter/Rogue/Monk party, and the primary AoE caster in a party where a Bard was the other full caster. Really, the only thing a Druid can’t do is generate nova damage.

[Tanarii]

The thing about Druids is they are Shapeshifters, both literally and figuratively.
Yeah, I've found that Druid players who do the best, and often seem to have the most fun, are the ones that embrace this concept. They're all magic using shape shifters, regardless of their subclass focus. Some players of 'caster' druids almost seem to forget that's a major aspect of the class.

[ImperiousLeader]

How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?

[sithlordnergal]

How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?

They can clog up the game if you are not used to running large groups. A quick and easy way to run things is have the summons all go at the same time on a single initative roll, and have the player on a timer.

By the time their turn rolls around the player needs to know what those summons are gonna do, where they'll go, and who they'll attack. Depending on the DM, the player may want to have a dice roller app or a bunch of dice ready to go

[samcifer]

They can clog up the game if you are not used to running large groups. A quick and easy way to run things is have the summons all go at the same time on a single initative roll, and have the player on a timer.

By the time their turn rolls around the player needs to know what those summons are gonna do, where they'll go, and who they'll attack. Depending on the DM, the player may want to have a dice roller app or a bunch of dice ready to go

In my group, any minions share their controller's turn and act after the controller's pc does.

[Tanarii]

How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?
They can clog up the battlefield for sure. But RAW the Druid issues a command to the creatures. Unlike Animate Dead, they don't necessarily control the specifics. Lots of DMs allow that, but it's not required by the spell. You can also enforce that speaking only happens on the PCs turn if you so choose, which is what the PHB says for speaking, despite that being fairly commonly ignored.

As a DM, I'm certainly used to controlling large groups of the same creature that all act on the same initiative (albeit as unique turns) and executing their turns quickly. Especially when they're executing (by necessity) fairly simple orders.

If a DM opts to let Conjured Animals be explicitly controlled by the player and execute complex maneuvers, it can slow things down a fair amount if they're not used to it. OTOH if they issue a command out loud, and then quickly execute based on that, players can get used to it pretty quick.

[Skylivedk]

How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?

My groups require the Summoning players to prepare relevant stat sheets in advance of sessions and commands before turns. Often the groups are bundled up as well (4 wolves acting as a pack) meaning it feels more like one creep with multi attack than 4 turns.

[Vogie]

In my group, any minions share their controller's turn and act after the controller's pc does.

We do that too. With the exception of Familiars, which act just before the PC.

[NaughtyTiger]

I never see nearly enough love for the Shepherd Druid. 8x summoning anything is insane, and they really can do anything like the moon druid and while the moon druid has to drop in and out of wild shape to do different things, the shepherd druid is still a full caster while his summons are out. The only thing they really can't do well is burst damage.

As a player, Shepherd is amazing...

As a DM, I have no love for summoning 8x anything, but at least they are 1shot and done...
As a DM, I hate Shepherd cuz they can make their 8x anything live much longer.
slows combat, hogs attention, and outshines brawlers...



How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?

i make folks use mob rules and/or average damage..

[Zuras]

How have players/DMs managed the sheer number of creatures a Druid can add to the battlefield? Do they clog up the game?

The summons can totally clog up the game, or be a non-issue if the player is very organized or has an dice roller app.

When I DM, I normally let the player choose summons, but if their turns are slow, they are encouraged to either prep to get faster or stick with the two CR 1 summons rather than 8 Cr 1/4.

The worst offenders are velociraptors and Giant badgers. I don’t mind multi-attack, but multiattack with two different damage dice seems to completely befuddle some players. Similarly, anything requiring a poison save can bog things down.

The key point is not allowing complex tactics for the summons-they just swarm enemies unless it’s a set-piece battle where the whole party had a chance to plan an ambush or something.

[Man_Over_Game]

i make folks use mob rules and/or average damage..

Good advice.

Ask yourself: Do your monsters clog up the game? Of course not, you find ways of making monsters more efficient to act in combat to ensure things move quickly.

Summoning spells slow down the game because a lot of tables have the player control the summons. The fact is, DMs are efficient in combat, and summoned creatures generally shouldn't act much different than allied monsters. Put the summons in the control of the DM, and it won't matter if you have 1 or 8 additional creatures on the field.

[NaughtyTiger]

Ask yourself: Do your monsters clog up the game? Of course not, you find ways of making monsters more efficient to act in combat to ensure things move quickly.

they kind of do... combat is much faster with 1 really big guy vs 12 small guys...

[Man_Over_Game]

they kind of do... combat is much faster with 1 really big guy vs 12 small guys...

Sure, but that's comparing 1 to 12.

I could also compare 1 to 4, and the 1 would still be much faster.

However, if you compare 4 to 12, I've found that they generally maintain similar speed. You reach a certain point, and it doesn't matter how many monsters there are. Introduce enough enemies and you get a "group", or a "swarm", and you shorthand some of the rules to make it stay fun.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Put the summons in the control of the DM

Isn't that the RAW anyway?

My only experience of summons is in play-by-post, which is so slow to begin with that you don't notice any difference! :smalltongue: I mean, it's a lot easier to copy-paste dice rolls as well, so you can make hundreds of attacks at once fairly easily.

[Man_Over_Game]

Isn't that the RAW anyway?

RAW, "skill checks" refer to the ability score first, then the proficiency(ies) are added based on what's relevant. So you could theoretically find medicinal herbs using Medicine, Survival, or Nature, depending on the scenario.

But people still end up defaulting to how every other edition had it, because habits, and few people actually read that part of the book.

Just because it's RAW doesn't mean that it's what actually happens.

[Vogie]

they kind of do... combat is much faster with 1 really big guy vs 12 small guys...

The only problem with it is that you still have to track their individual stats. You may run 8 wolves as 2 packs of 4 wolves each, but if you deal damage using an attack roll, you're only shooting one wolf at a time.

I mean, you could alter the stats to use swarm rules - set the summoned creatures in pairs, then use swarm rules (double damage at full health, "half" or normal damage at half life, due to one of the summons dying). So, for 8 summons, you could have 4 "wolf swarms" that are acting.

[NaughtyTiger]

The only problem with it is that you still have to track their individual stats. You may run 8 wolves as 2 packs of 4 wolves each, but if you deal damage using an attack roll, you're only shooting one wolf at a time.

I mean, you could alter the stats to use swarm rules - set the summoned creatures in pairs, then use swarm rules (double damage at full health, "half" or normal damage at half life, due to one of the summons dying). So, for 8 summons, you could have 4 "wolf swarms" that are acting.

wolf has 11 hit points. 90% of attacks at level 3+ will deal more than 11 points of damage... so all i track is full, wounded, dead per wolf. (shepherd screws that up)

swarm rules is a good idea, too. but 4 swarms of wolves still make 4 attacks...

i use mobs to reduce the number of rolls. mob is 0 rolls... just look at the chart... it takes 5 wolves to hit AC 17... that is 1 hit for 8 wolves, average damage.
some players push back cuz it is underwhelming.

[Fable Wright]

wolf has 11 hit points. 90% of attacks at level 3+ will deal more than 11 points of damage... so all i track is full, wounded, dead per wolf. (shepherd screws that up)

swarm rules is a good idea, too. but 4 swarms of wolves still make 4 attacks...

i use mobs to reduce the number of rolls. mob is 0 rolls... just look at the chart... it takes 5 wolves to hit AC 17... that is 1 hit for 8 wolves, average damage.
some players push back cuz it is underwhelming.

Wolves with pack tactics hit AC 17 64% of the time and force saves vs prone. At least add 5 to the wolves' attack bonus to account for the advantage.

[nickl_2000]

I'm currently playing a level 12 moon druid/ level 4 hunter ranger/ level 1 light cleric.

The answer is whatever the heck I want. I can blast, melee, control, heal, and buff.... And can change every long rest due to prepared spells. Honestly Druids are the Swiss army knife of the d&d world. They are not as good as the focused classes, but they are decent at everything.

[NaughtyTiger]

Wolves with pack tactics hit AC 17 64% of the time and force saves vs prone. At least add 5 to the wolves' attack bonus to account for the advantage.

totally agree, i wasn't paying attention.

[sithlordnergal]

Isn't that the RAW anyway?


I mean, it is RAW...but most DMs I know let the players control the summons because its easier on the dm.

[NaughtyTiger]

I mean, it is RAW...but most DMs I know let the players control the summons because its easier on the dm.

what page is that stated?

[sithlordnergal]

what page is that stated?

I wanna say its part of the spell itself. "They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don't issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from Hostile creatures, but otherwise take no Actions. The DM has the creatures' Statistics."

So they'll obey a command you give them, but since the DM is supposed to technically have their statistics, the DM is the best suited to control how they follow those commands.

[Mikaleus]

I’m currently playing a Water genasi Druid. Sometimes we have a full group sometimes we have only 2 or 3 players (out of 6).

My DM and I worked conjure animals like this.

* I can pick the summons - we’re using the coastal and underwater tables from xanathars with the addition of relevant marine creatures from ghostmarsh.

* combat application
Full group - restrict summons to CR2 and 1.
Half or lesser- summon more lower CR critters (or I just can choose whatever number I feel is relevant at the time).

* outside of combat I can use the spell however I want - scouting, transport etc.

I figure if there’s 4 players including myself, and I summoned 8 critters, I’d give a critter to each of the other players so they can have a dice roll.

As for the OP topic, yeah druids are very versatile and many posts have identified the strengths of a druids versatility.

Mostly my Druid is applying faerie Fire, healing word and primal savagery in combat. We were given starting gold and I was allowed to make organic spiked armor (from scag) and I’m sitting at a fairly high AC for a Druid.

[Tanarii]

Isn't that the RAW anyway?

RAW just says the character issues verbal commands as no action. It doesn't say who executes the conjured creatures' turns after that. The only thing of note here is technically (per the PHB) speaking is on your turn.

[NaughtyTiger]

I wanna say its part of the spell itself. "They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don't issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from Hostile creatures, but otherwise take no Actions. The DM has the creatures' Statistics."

So they'll obey a command you give them, but since the DM is supposed to technically have their statistics, the DM is the best suited to control how they follow those commands.

so not RAW... :)

[Nhym]

As a player, Shepherd is amazing...

As a DM, I have no love for summoning 8x anything, but at least they are 1shot and done...
As a DM, I hate Shepherd cuz they can make their 8x anything live much longer.
slows combat, hogs attention, and outshines brawlers...


I'd say that entirely depends on the player. In my experience, the player who is texting half the time is much more of a time drain. Shepherd druids just take a TON of preparation to be run efficiently, but if you prepare well enough turns can go by VERY quickly. You just need to know EXACTLY what your summons are going to do before your turn. I use a dice roller app for the attack rolls to be near instantaneous, default damage per hit is just a quick multiplication and for HP and spells (for fey) I have a whiteboard with all the summons numbered and HP listed where I can easily and quickly track hp changes for individual summons. That only gets faster if you bundle groups. All that being said, HP tracking is just as fast as any player with the whiteboard and a full round of damage from summons is easily less than 10 seconds in rush-mode.

Also to reference "hogs attention, and outshines brawlers...", you choose what your summons do. If that is starting to be an issue literally just have only a few summons attack and the rest either use the Help action on your party to make them even better. That way your summons still contribute well to combat and you are giving advantage to your brawlers to shine even more.

[Arkhios]

All classes are more or less vague about their intended roles, and honestly, that's a good thing.

One of the things I really hate in MMORPGs (when compared to TTRPGs) is that they pigeon-hole each playable class into specific roles in a party. In MMO context, I understand why it's done, but not when people assume that TTRPGs definitely must work the same way, for some reason, while they most certainly do not.

Yes, druids are "generalists", which means they can do anything. Just, figure out the way you want to play a druid, and you're ready to play.

Don't worry about whether it's the intended or most "optimal" way. If it's fun to you, it's all you need.

[Allistar]

One of the things I really hate in MMORPGs (when compared to TTRPGs) is that they pigeon-hole each playable class into specific roles in a party. In MMO context, I understand why it's done, but not when people assume that TTRPGs definitely must work the same way, for some reason, while they most certainly do not.

Oh for sure, but you can't deny that it certainly helps when a class has a role outlined for itself. They fill a role in the party mechanics wise, and then the player can come up with whatever RP concept they want. The mechanics feed RP and the RP will feed into game interaction, which will feed into more mechanics being used, feeding into more RP, etc. That's at least how it's been in our playgroup.

Clerics have been the healers since literally forever, but I remember playing a war cleric not too long ago that was basically a paladin, but with better spells. I was still the party "healer" but I was able to stand my ground with the fighter. Not really optimal, but the theme was there and I decided to have fun with it.

I do really like the analogy though of the druid being a shapechanger in more ways than one. Their role can change in a matter of minutes (like the weather here in Texas). The more I think about it in that context it helps me better understand the idea of what makes a druid a druid.

Also, thank's everyone for all of the advice and discussion it's been really helpful