Single save

[paladinn]

Hello all,

The OSR game Swords & Wizardry uses a "single save" mechanic. Instead of having saves against wands or poison, like OD&D or B/X, or will, reflex and fortitude, like 3.x, there is one saving throw value modified by whatever conditions apply. Has anyone played with such a save system? Is it any simpler than 5e's system? W/could it be adapted to work in 5e?

Gratzi!

[Kyutaru]

It's actually the same as 5e's system.

There's a single saving throw done by rolling a d20. You modify it according to the type. So a save against intelligence uses your intelligence modifier. A save against poison uses your anti-poison dwarven racial bonus. Whatever the save is, you're rolling a d20, adding your proficiency bonus, and adding your modifiers.

[MoiMagnus]

Hello all,

The OSR game Swords & Wizardry uses a "single save" mechanic. Instead of having saves against wands or poison, like OD&D or B/X, or will, reflex and fortitude, like 3.x, there is one saving throw value modified by whatever conditions apply. Has anyone played with such a save system? Is it any simpler than 5e's system? W/could it be adapted to work in 5e?

Gratzi!

5e save system is quite easy.
You roll a d20 (or 2 if advantages or disadvantage)
You add your proficiency bonus if you are trained against that kind of effect.
You add the bonus of your ability which is the most adequate to the test.

This is significantly simpler than a system where the roll is modified by "whatever conditions apply" with different specific bonuses each time, which depending on the situation are cumulative or not.
You don't even need to remember which ability affect which save type, they all have their own save.
You don't have to argue if your martial training give you a bonus to this kind of save or not, since you only have 6 training, one per ability.

One simplification you could do is to reduce the number of abilities.
You could without too many problems have only 5, 4, 3 or even 2 abilities (mental and physic).
Though it might unbalance feats, but if you're trying to simplify the game, you probably don't want to play with feats.

At some point, if you feel like 5e is too complex mechanically, maybe you should go towards games that don't even try to have technical optimizations, and are fully narrative-based. You don't seems to be searching for a system which is "easier to use", but more for a system "less technical". Narrative-based RPG usually play better than "5e where you remove stuff".

[Bjarkmundur]

I haven't tried it, no, but I would love such a system, especially in a more modular game system. I usually get suckered into "ERMAGERD COOL FEATURES" instead of boosting my base stats xD

[paladinn]

5e save system is quite easy.
You roll a d20 (or 2 if advantages or disadvantage)
You add your proficiency bonus if you are trained against that kind of effect.
You add the bonus of your ability which is the most adequate to the test.

This is significantly simpler than a system where the roll is modified by "whatever conditions apply" with different specific bonuses each time, which depending on the situation are cumulative or not.
You don't even need to remember which ability affect which save type, they all have their own save.
You don't have to argue if your martial training give you a bonus to this kind of save or not, since you only have 6 training, one per ability.

One simplification you could do is to reduce the number of abilities.
You could without too many problems have only 5, 4, 3 or even 2 abilities (mental and physic).
Though it might unbalance feats, but if you're trying to simplify the game, you probably don't want to play with feats.

At some point, if you feel like 5e is too complex mechanically, maybe you should go towards games that don't even try to have technical optimizations, and are fully narrative-based. You don't seems to be searching for a system which is "easier to use", but more for a system "less technical". Narrative-based RPG usually play better than "5e where you remove stuff".

Don't get me wrong.. I love how 5e plays. And I like the bonuses for each attribute. I'm working on an OSR/5e mashup and want to get the best of all worlds, and wanted some opinions. Preferably from all sides.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think 3e got the saves right-- you resist effects with willpower, physical power, or speed. 5e has a bit too much granularity, I'd argue. (You can see that in the lack of Str and, especially, Int and Cha saves).

I'm not sure what "a single save modified by conditions" translates too. If it's purely external stuff, maybe-- that puts all the math on the DM's side, keeping it simpler for the players, but... It seems like way too many conditions would be based on the player's build, and THAT'S not something a dm should have to keep track of.

[Tanarii]

If you want old school, you need multiple saves (preferably 5) with fixed TNs with none getting a bonus from anything other than possibly Wisdom.