Archetypal Dragon Slayer

[GreyBlack]

A question for y'all. Kinda going over my old books and came across the old Dragon Slayer prestige class and it kinda got me thinking. If you were to build a Dragon Slayer in 5e, how would you build it?

Some rules:

First, we're talking about a build up take down larger creatures single handedly. Sure, it could deal with crowds but it really shines when attacking something big.

Second, these should not be primary spellcasters. Some spellcasting is fine, but anything over about half casting is probably not what we're looking for. These should be the archetypal Knight in Shining Armor who saves the princess from the dragon, or Bard, who laid low Smaug with a single arrow.

If there's any other rules you can think of, please spit it out. These are just some general guidelines so someone doesn't submit Wizard 20 and call it an archetypal dragon slayer.

[CheddarChampion]

Barbarian would be my #1 pick. To me a dragon hunter is a musclebound warrior with a big sword that prefers agility over heavy armor.
Standard totem barbarian build with GWM and crit fishing. Maybe 3 levels in fighter for improved crit or maneuvers.

Other than that, a Hunter/Assassin could be good. Favored enemy is thematic (at minimum), giant killer + sneak attack, evasion, cunning action... Take the mobile feat and be a wood elf to try and kite, maybe try hiding after taking potshots, do whatever you can to avoid direct conflict while whittling down your foe.

[Raxxius]

Paladin.

Knight in shining armour FFS.

:smalltongue:

[Fable Wright]

The archetypal dragonslayer has some skills, but primarily gets his kills by hiding in a ditch and ambushing the dragon when the poor thing is least expecting it. He may or may not have also made a deal with a magic sword that grants him a kingdom.

Battlemaster 11/Gloomstalker 5/Assassin 3/Hexblade 1. ASIs: Elvish Accuracy, Sharpshooter.

The Buildup:

Wait in hiding with Advantage and +27 Stealth from Pass Without Trace. Use Hexblade's Curse when you see the dragon; it should be undetectable, as it has no components.

The Round:

Bonus action: Stack Hunter's Mark onto the dragon, and then make attack/Action Surge Attack with triple advantage and Sharpshooter.

In each attack routine, you have four attacks. The first deals 4d8+2d6+21 damage (avg 46); the rest deal 2d8+2d6+21 damage (avg 37). If all hit, that's 157 damage; since you action surge, that's 314; plus an additional 10d10 from battlemaster maneuvers and 2d6 from Sneak Attack (62 total) to make your total average RAW 374 damage. Against AC 22 with stealth and a +8 to hit with triple advantage, you have a 72.5375% chance to deal normal damage and no extra damage from crits (which all your attacks are, because Assassin).

Thus, your total average damage in an ambush round is 271.3 damage. Definitely not enough to kill the wyrm... BUT! If you can get a Dragonslayer charm applied to that bow (which is admittedly not strictly RAW), since you are an archetypal dragonslayer who seeks every advantage he can get, you deal an extra 6d6 damage per hit—or 48d6 total, which is 168 => 121.8 extra damage.

Brings you up to 393 average damage in one ambush round against your chosen dragon to slay; an ancient Blue or Red might survive your volleys, but little else will.

(Great Weapon Master changes the damage to 2d8+6d6+21 damage (avg 51) / 6d6+21 damage (avg 42) for the full routine's RAW to go up to 409 (since sneak attack is out), but the accuracy goes to 57.8%, and your damage down to 235 before dragonslayer.)

(Without Sharpshooter, damage goes to 294 RAW with 168 dragonslayer and 93.6% accuracy, your damage goes up to 432.4 average, which still barely misses out on Ancient Blue.)



Battlemaster 11/Gloomstalker 3/Assassin 3/Paladin 3. ASIs: Elvish Accuracy (Dex-> 18) (Fighter 4) Sharpshooter (F6), Dex -> 20 (F8), Charisma stays at initial score of 15.

Attack routine is as above, save for Stealth being +17; the pre-buff rounds involve invoking Sacred Weapon; and instead of casting Hunter's Mark, we use a very expensive scroll of Holy Weapon.

First attack deals 8d8+15 damage (avg 51); later ones do 6d8+15 (avg 42). Our average with Sharpshooter, etc. goes up to 416 with a 83.3% chance to hit; add 168 dragonslayer, and your damage goes to 487 average after chance to hit is taken into account. That's an Ancient Blue down. The red is beyond our grasp, so far as I can tell... unless you rolled for stats, and got lucky.

With +5 Charisma and +5 Dexterity, your raw damage goes up to 584; with Sacred Weapon adding +5 on top of your archery shenanigans instead of +2, your accuracy is 93.6%. Together, your average damage is 546/turn with the Dragonslayer Bow. JUST enough to take out an Ancient Red in your ambush. And since this is the magical land with perfect rolled stats, we could maybe squeeze some Wood Elf Magic in there to get your ambush Stealth to +27.

[Mercurias]

Most of the popular stories of dragon slayers involve a Maguffin, like a magic sword, or a hero’s birthright which lays the dragon low.

When considering how one would fight an ancient, flying, scaled, fire-breathing monster the size of a castle WITHOUT a Maguffin, my mind wanders to a clever archer or trap maker who uses wits, preparation, and courage to do the job.

A Hunter Ranger 5/Scout Rogue X works well for the concept of a nimble sniper peppering a drake with arrows while staying new one step ahead of its darting eyes.

A straight-classed Artillerist Artificer can probably work well also.

[Mitsu]

PAM Sentinel Vengeance Paladin would fit right in. Single target loaded - VoE, Hunter's Mark, Haste. Add to it Pegasus from Find Greater Steed + Haste + 10 feet reach weapon and Pegasus hasted speed (I think it was like 240 feet per turn with Haste) + Sentinel and PAM extra OA attack to make dragon fall from sky when his speed is reduced to 0 aaaand...

You have perfect Dragon Slayer for both ground battle and sky battle.

Another one would be Sorcadin with all it's spells and extra smite slots + quicken BB or (if you prefer range killer) Elf Samurai Archer/Gloom Stalker/Assassin (11/3/3 or 12/3/3 at least) for super Nova damage from afar (max longbow range is no joke) though it's not solo slayer like Paladin or Sorcadin.

Another one would be... Wizard or Bard with Force Cage -> Sickening Radiance combo. Easy, though long kill vs dragon.

[suplee215]

Paladin oath of the ancients would be able to just shrug off the dragon's breath.

[JackPhoenix]

Paladin oath of the ancients would be able to just shrug off the dragon's breath.

Not any better than any other paladin. It's not a spell, so Aura of Warding wouldn't apply.

[Makorel]

I would go Cavalier Fighter. Max Strength and Con, at least 16 Dex with Resilience: Dexterity and Shield Master to defend against dragon's breath. Lucky too if it can fit somewhere. The Cavalier runs down the Dragon on horseback, throwing javelins or firing arrows at it and attempts to knock it down with Ferocious Charger. Once down the Cavalier dismounts their horse and instructs it to move to a safe distance and then goes in and attacks with weapon and shield. If the dragon tries to leave it gets stopped by Hold the Line. If it tries to fire breath, Shield Mastery. If it gets attacks through then Warding Maneuver reduces the damage. If the dragon gets away by burning the Cavalier's reaction then the Cavalier calls their horse and chases it down again. Rinse and repeat until dead.

Alternatively, Battle Master Fighter with Sentinel. Battle Master gets access to Precision Attack which can make sure those opportunity attacks go through, but loses access to Ferocious Charger. Ferocious Charger is interesting in that it is a martial ability that can knock down a flying creature regardless of size and it's at will to boot but the Fighter only gets it at 15th level. Then again the Fighter would probably need to at least be that strong to take down a dragon alone. Without this ability the Battle Master Fighter can't afford to let the dragon get away and so they won't be using their reaction for shield mastery to allow the Dragon opportunity to escape. As such the Battle Master foregoes a shield in favor of a Greatsword and related great weapon perks.

[suplee215]

Not any better than any other paladin. It's not a spell, so Aura of Warding wouldn't apply.

Ah ok I thought it was something akin to "resistance to spells and other magical abilities". Guess not.

[DeadMech]

The one thing I most want from a dragon fighting knight in shining armor is the ability to use a shield to block the effects of breath weapons for yourself or a creature you are protecting.

[Nhorianscum]

(Greater)Mark of making Assasin rouge 20?

Slayer arrow + Whatever is coated on the slayer arrow + SA + death strike + autocrit?

That's something like 100 dice. It's dead now.

It's more of a "big game hunter" than a knight in shining armor admittedly.

As a solo build with fabricate the obtuse crafting rules become manageable and we just never fight not big things.

Edit: For a purely archetypal dragonslayer... ride of the valkyries paladin.

[Damon_Tor]

The one thing I most want from a dragon fighting knight in shining armor is the ability to use a shield to block the effects of breath weapons for yourself or a creature you are protecting.

The shield master feat does this very well.

I think the best bet for this challenge would be a battlesmith artificer mixed with a battlemaster fighter built as a handcrossbow archer. Artificer infusions mean you can always have the right armor to resist whatever breath weapons you need to, and you can use both a handcrossbow and a shield at the same time. Battlemaster fighter gives you the ability to shoot dragons out of the sky by knocking them prone.

[JackPhoenix]

Ah ok I thought it was something akin to "resistance to spells and other magical abilities". Guess not.

Even if it was, dragon's breath isn't explicitly magical. See SAC's definition of what counts as magical.... it even talks about dragon's breath.

However, OotA grants Protection from Energy as one of its spells (so does OoV), so it's still helpful.

[suplee215]

Even if it was, dragon's breath isn't explicitly magical. See SAC's definition of what counts as magical.... it even talks about dragon's breath.

However, OotA grants Protection from Energy as one of its spells (so does OoV), so it's still helpful.

That is getting big into a semantic argument and RAW vs RAI vs Rule 0. Personally I'll rule dragon breath is magical for that purpose as a DM.

[Nagog]

I'd go Paladin for heavy single target damage or perhaps a Monk. I've heard of Monks being capable of insane levels of damage to a single target per round, similar to the Paladin, the difference being quality vs. quantity. A Monk has the capacity to hit a ton of times and deal great damage per hit, while a Paladin can hit once and smite the dragon straight to it's maker, depending on the slot used.

As for the paladin look, I believe there was a Catholic saint who was told to have slain a dragon, but his name escapes me right now.

[Benny89]

In straight 1v1 scenario it's hard to go better than Sorcadin or Hexsorcadin. They are born boss destroyers.

[Fable Wright]

I'd go Paladin for heavy single target damage or perhaps a Monk. I've heard of Monks being capable of insane levels of damage to a single target per round, similar to the Paladin, the difference being quality vs. quantity. A Monk has the capacity to hit a ton of times and deal great damage per hit, while a Paladin can hit once and smite the dragon straight to it's maker, depending on the slot used.

Monks are great at low levels, fall off at high levels.


As for the paladin look, I believe there was a Catholic saint who was told to have slain a dragon, but his name escapes me right now.

St. George killed a dragon, and St. Martha tamed one (which was subsequently stoned to death by villagers).

[Damon_Tor]

Even if it was, dragon's breath isn't explicitly magical. See SAC's definition of what counts as magical.... it even talks about dragon's breath.

However, OotA grants Protection from Energy as one of its spells (so does OoV), so it's still helpful.

That's why Shield Mastery is helpful: it explicitly works on "effects" or "harmful effects" that require a dex save. So assuming there are no other targets for the dragon's breath besides yourself, your shield gives you +2 to your save and no damage on a success. Yes, you'll also want a dex save proficiency and 20+ dex. But even with all that, we're still looking at a +13 dex save against a DC 24 check, so you'll still take damage half the time. So yeah, you need some way to mitigate the damage when it hits you, preferably in a way that isn't a limited resource (absorb elements doesn't do well here).

A full-blooded artificer gets +6 to all his saves at level 20, so maybe there's your best bet. A level 20 artificer with 20 Dex, a Cloak of Protection, Ring of Protection, Shield Mastery and Resilient (Dex) with automatic half cover from his turrets will be looking at a dex save of +23 (EDIT: Actually +25 because Shield Mastery gives you +4 due to the magic shield). And he can give himself whatever resistance he needs with his armor infusion.

Now we can address the physical damage: He's really only got to worry about the Dragon getting into melee and trashing him hand to hand. But of course the artificer also has real nice AC. An Enhanced Defense infusion on his shield gets him +2, add in the Ring and Cloak for another +2. Make him an artillarist for +5 from Shield. Let's go ahead and have him cast Haste on himself for another +2 (he'll use his Spell Storing Item to cast Arcane Weapon, freeing up his concentration). And there's the half cover from the turrets, So he'll have 32 AC, and the dragon hits on a 15+.

[Nagog]

Monks are great at low levels, fall off at high levels.



St. George killed a dragon, and St. Martha tamed one (which was subsequently stoned to death by villagers).

True, so it depends on the level/type of dragon you're up against.


Oh hot dang XD Poor Martha. Got arguably the best Animal Companion ever, only to have the DM immediately regret it and revoke it XD


... Jokes like this are probably a good part of the reason I'm going to hell. Oh well, at least folks there may laugh with me

[GreyBlack]

True, so it depends on the level/type of dragon you're up against.


Oh hot dang XD Poor Martha. Got arguably the best Animal Companion ever, only to have the DM immediately regret it and revoke it XD


... Jokes like this are probably a good part of the reason I'm going to hell. Oh well, at least folks there may laugh with me

I rented a party bus if you want a ride.

That said, I'm loving these builds! Awesome to see everyone!

[JackPhoenix]

That's why Shield Mastery is helpful: it explicitly works on "effects" or "harmful effects" that require a dex save. So assuming there are no other targets for the dragon's breath besides yourself, your shield gives you +2 to your save and no damage on a success. Yes, you'll also want a dex save proficiency and 20+ dex. But even with all that, we're still looking at a +13 dex save against a DC 24 check, so you'll still take damage half the time. So yeah, you need some way to mitigate the damage when it hits you, preferably in a way that isn't a limited resource (absorb elements doesn't do well here).

The second benefit is pretty bad and won't help you against a dragon. There's only a few effects that offer Dex save and target only single creature: Sacred Flame, Disintegrate, and that's about it. Dragon's breath targets area, not creatures, so it doesn't matter how much people are affected. Third benefit still works.

[Damon_Tor]

The second benefit is pretty bad and won't help you against a dragon. There's only a few effects that offer Dex save and target only single creature: Sacred Flame, Disintegrate, and that's about it. Dragon's breath targets area, not creatures, so it doesn't matter how much people are affected. Third benefit still works.


"If you aren’t incapacitated, you can add your shield’s AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you."

The feat doesn't have the same wording as Twinned Spell, which requires the spell only be capable or targeting a single creature. Shield Mastery applies as long as you are the only target, regardless of how many targets the effect might theoretically be able to effect. Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/897533173059305472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E897533173059305472&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2017%2F1 0%2F18%2Fdoes-the-2nd-pt-of-shield-master-function-against-spells-that-can-only-target-1-creature%2F) backs me up on that, for whatever that's worth.

And one thing I hadn't considered is that the bonus isn't just +2, it's whatever the shield bonus to AC is, which for a magic shield includes whatever "+X" it's got. So our max level artificer actually has a dex save of +25.

[JackPhoenix]

"If you aren’t incapacitated, you can add your shield’s AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you."

The feat doesn't have the same wording as Twinned Spell, which requires the spell only be capable or targeting a single creature. Shield Mastery applies as long as you are the only target, regardless of how many targets the effect might theoretically be able to effect. Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/897533173059305472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E897533173059305472&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2017%2F1 0%2F18%2Fdoes-the-2nd-pt-of-shield-master-function-against-spells-that-can-only-target-1-creature%2F) backs me up on that, for whatever that's worth.

And one thing I hadn't considered is that the bonus isn't just +2, it's whatever the shield bonus to AC is, which for a magic shield includes whatever "+X" it's got. So our max level artificer actually has a dex save of +25.

Dragon's breath targets an area, not creature. 2nd point would help against Acid Splash if you're the only one affected, as it targets creature(s), but not against AoE effects. Crawford never addressed that part of the question.

[Warlush]

... Jokes like this are probably a good part of the reason I'm going to hell. Oh well, at least folks there may laugh with me

"You go to heaven for the climate, you go to Hell for the company."-Mark Twain

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, why not just go Revised Ranger Hunter?

Fighting Style: Archery. Ranged attacks are more sustainable than melee,, works better with stealth, and more effective in solo play.

Favored Enemy: Humanoid. You might not easily track a dragon, but you can track its cult of Kobolds.

Favored Greater Enemy: Dragons

Hunter's Prey: Colossus Slayer (Deal extra damage when hitting creatures past the first turn). Great for big nasties who you hit multiple times in combat, without having to be in melee combat like Giant Killer.

Defensive Tactics: Steel Will. Dragons emit a fear aura that you now are resistant against.

Multiattack: Volley. You'll eventually need to deal with those kobolds, as dragons rarely fight alone unless they are overly confident.

Hunter's Defense: Evasion. Dragons like to use breath attacks, so it'd be good to have a backup plan for when your Dex save fails.



You have a 1d10 hit die (good for solo), you can get Stealth as a skill (also great for solo), and you might even have the Sharpshooter feat (stay well out of range of the Dragon's attacks, as well as dramatically increasing your damage output).

A good strategy to get rid of a dragon's hoard of minions is to attack from Stealth with Volley and Sharpshooter. Total, that's -3 to hit on each creature with Advantage, but +10 damage to each creature hit, up to 600 feet away.