Dnd 3.5 looking for spell that work with a high caster level

[Dragconixs]

I'm building a rouge 4 sorcerer 7 spellwarp sniper 5 arcane trickster 3. 7 sorcerer levels so I can get all the dragonblood sorcerer benefits. Is there any spells that a sorcerer gets that is good with high caster levels other then wings of flurry.

[Miss Disaster]

Skin of the Steel Dragon (Abjuration 5th Level Sorc/Wiz spell)

... from Champions of Valor book

-----

Doesn't have a cap to CL ... and Sorcerers get a bonus that Wizards don't!

[Particle_Man]

Dispel Magic

Greater Dispel Magic

Dismissal

Banishment

[KillianHawkeye]

Disintegrate?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Per the Rules Compendium p42 regarding precision damage such as sneak attack:

A form of attack that enables an attacker to make
multiple attacks during an action other than a
full-round action... allows precision damage to
be applied only to the first attack in the group.

A spontaneous caster such as a Sorcerer who uses a metamagic feat with a spell increases the spell's casting time to a full-round action. So a Scorching Ray with any metamagic feat (Split Ray, Invisible Spell, Twin Spell, etc.) will deal sneak attack damage on every attack. So take any metamagic feat (Heighten if you'll be taking the Acidic Splatter reserve feat), Invisible Spell, Split Ray, Twin Spell, Arcane Thesis: Scorching Ray, and get a Lesser Rod of Empower. Maybe include Practical Metamagic for Twin or Split Ray, and/or Energy Substitution for cold or some other damage type in case you have fire-immune opponents.

At a caster level of 11th, your Scorching Ray with Invisible Spell and Split Ray takes a 2nd level spell slot and fires four rays, each for 4d6 plus sneak attack. Throw on Twin Spell and the Lesser Rod of Empower and Energy Substitution, and it's only a 3rd level spell slot (2nd with Practical Metamagic once) and makes eight rays, each of which deals 4d6 plus sneak attack which is increased by 50%. Sneak attack improves the spell's damage (a variable numeric effect) and that entire effect (the spell's damage) is improved by Empower Spell.

You should be able to use Reserves of Strength to get at least one more ray out of Scorching Ray, if not more. That's two more if you're using Twin Spell, or a 25% increase in damage.

Also, why not go Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 8 to start out? You get the same BAB but better spellcasting that way, and Penetrating Strike is at Rogue 3 so you shouldn't really miss out on anything.

[Dragconixs]

Per the Rules Compendium p42 regarding precision damage such as sneak attack:


A spontaneous caster such as a Sorcerer who uses a metamagic feat with a spell increases the spell's casting time to a full-round action. So a Scorching Ray with any metamagic feat (Split Ray, Invisible Spell, Twin Spell, etc.) will deal sneak attack damage on every attack. So take any metamagic feat (Heighten if you'll be taking the Acidic Splatter reserve feat), Invisible Spell, Split Ray, Twin Spell, Arcane Thesis: Scorching Ray, and get a Lesser Rod of Empower. Maybe include Practical Metamagic for Twin or Split Ray, and/or Energy Substitution for cold or some other damage type in case you have fire-immune opponents.

At a caster level of 11th, your Scorching Ray with Invisible Spell and Split Ray takes a 2nd level spell slot and fires four rays, each for 4d6 plus sneak attack. Throw on Twin Spell and the Lesser Rod of Empower and Energy Substitution, and it's only a 3rd level spell slot (2nd with Practical Metamagic once) and makes eight rays, each of which deals 4d6 plus sneak attack which is increased by 50%. Sneak attack improves the spell's damage (a variable numeric effect) and that entire effect (the spell's damage) is improved by Empower Spell.

You should be able to use Reserves of Strength to get at least one more ray out of Scorching Ray, if not more. That's two more if you're using Twin Spell, or a 25% increase in damage.

Also, why not go Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 8 to start out? You get the same BAB but better spellcasting that way, and Penetrating Strike is at Rogue 3 so you shouldn't really miss out on anything.

This game is my second game every so I'm going with what my gm recommended. My gm compared metamagic with sorcerers to pulling teeth. Is it truly that bad to pull off

[Eldariel]

Metamagic is incredibly good on spontaneous casters since they can use it spontaneously (thus you just pick what you wanna do and go from there). The casting time increase is a pain but there's a feat, Rapid Metamagic, which negates it and PHBII has a Sorcerer ACF that negates it 3+Int times per day (better than nothing) in exchange for a familiar. Now, 4 levels of Rogue on a caster build means you'll never see some of the truly best options (Maw of Chaos and Gate come to mind). I'd just go Rogue 1/Sorc 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarp Sniper 5. The Dragonblood subs aren't that good to lose 3 levels of class features. Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage. You should pick Practiced Spellcaster [Complete Arcane] to ensure you have maxed caster level, particularly if you're doing this caster level buffing. Such a build has much better casting, more skills, all the sneak attack, etc.

[Dragconixs]

Metamagic is incredibly good on spontaneous casters since they can use it spontaneously (thus you just pick what you wanna do and go from there). The casting time increase is a pain but there's a feat, Rapid Metamagic, which negates it and PHBII has a Sorcerer ACF that negates it 3+Int times per day (better than nothing) in exchange for a familiar. Now, 4 levels of Rogue on a caster build means you'll never see some of the truly best options (Maw of Chaos and Gate come to mind). I'd just go Rogue 1/Sorc 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarp Sniper 5. The Dragonblood subs aren't that good to lose 3 levels of class features. Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage. You should pick Practiced Spellcaster [Complete Arcane] to ensure you have maxed caster level, particularly if you're doing this caster level buffing. Such a build has much better casting, more skills, all the sneak attack, etc.

So should I drop the dragonblood after level 1 since I still want the dragonic feats

[Eldariel]

So should I drop the dragonblood after level 1 since I still want the dragonic feats

Level 4 Dragonblood Sorcerer Sub is good. No reason not to take it. Take all you can; they cost you little.

[Dragconixs]

Level 4 Dragonblood Sorcerer Sub is good. No reason not to take it. Take all you can; they cost you little.

After level 4 sorcerer would it be a good idea to go into unseen seer or just keep going to level 7

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Start out Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 4. For the Sorcerer 4 dragonblood substitution level, I'd pick Nerveskitter for your spell-like ability and keep it at that forever. That only costs you a 1st and 2nd level spell slot, and a 1st level spell known, and you'll be wanting to cast that every encounter anyway.

Definitely go the metamagic route, especially with the dragonblood subtype since you can take Practical Metamagic. Granted you'll also need Practiced Spellcaster, and you'll need higher level spell slots before your metamagic feats will actually be useful. In the early levels you'll probably want to use spells for crowd control and use a shortbow to deal damage, definitely pick up Craven if possible as it becomes a significant bonus (that's improved by Empower Spell).

What level are you starting at?

[Dragconixs]

Start out Rogue 3/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 4. For the Sorcerer 4 dragonblood substitution level, I'd pick Nerveskitter for your spell-like ability and keep it at that forever. That only costs you a 1st and 2nd level spell slot, and a 1st level spell known, and you'll be wanting to cast that every encounter anyway.

Definitely go the metamagic route, especially with the dragonblood subtype since you can take Practical Metamagic. Granted you'll also need Practiced Spellcaster, and you'll need higher level spell slots before your metamagic feats will actually be useful. In the early levels you'll probably want to use spells for crowd control and use a shortbow to deal damage, definitely pick up Craven if possible as it becomes a significant bonus (that's improved by Empower Spell).

What level are you starting at?

Right now I'm 4th lvl rouge

[Asmotherion]

I'm building a rouge 4 sorcerer 7 spellwarp sniper 5 arcane trickster 3. 7 sorcerer levels so I can get all the dragonblood sorcerer benefits. Is there any spells that a sorcerer gets that is good with high caster levels other then wings of flurry.

Reserves of strength technically can give you your full caster level+3 on any spell (if the DM goes strictly RAW).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Right now I'm 4th lvl rouge

See if you can use the guidelines in PH2 chapter 8 to retrain that fourth Rogue level into a Sorcerer level.

[Eldariel]

See if you can use the guidelines in PH2 chapter 8 to retrain that fourth Rogue level into a Sorcerer level.

Why would you ever get 3 levels of Rogue for this build?

[Asmotherion]

Why would you ever get 3 levels of Rogue for this build?

To become a moderately good make up artist? :P

sorry couldn't resist.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Why would you ever get 3 levels of Rogue for this build?

You need Rogue 3 for either Death's Ruin or Penetrating Strike, depending on which is preferred. I'll agree that more Rogue makes for a worse build, but he already has four levels in it. Retraining 75% of your current class levels can be difficult to get a DM to go along with.

[Eldariel]

You need Rogue 3 for either Death's Ruin or Penetrating Strike, depending on which is preferred. I'll agree that more Rogue makes for a worse build, but he already has four levels in it. Retraining 75% of your current class levels can be difficult to get a DM to go along with.

If he's going for spell-based damage, Penetrating Strike is useless and Death's Ruin is marginal when Gravestrike (Wand or Advanced Learning) exists. Those are only relevant for a martial/gish (mostly melee) Sneak Attack build. 100% not worth two levels of casting in either case.

[Dragconixs]

Right now I'm 4th lvl rouge

The 4th lvl rouge is for uncanny dodge

[Eldariel]

The 4th lvl rouge is for uncanny dodge

It's really not worth it compared to the spellcasting you're losing. Every level in every class gives you skills and Base Attack Bonus, but only casting class levels give you spellcasting advancement. As such, whenever you're multiclassing between the two, you should take the majority of your levels in the spellcasting class since they grant you whatever the other class does while also granting you full advancement in their unique shtick (which also happens to be really good!). If you want to be a spellcaster, you absolutely need to maximize the number of spell levels you have. Casting 1st level spells on level 7 (as would happen with Rogue 4/Sorcerer 3) is just really painful (Grease, Silent Image, Wall of Smoke, Nerveskitter and Ray of Enfeeblement are good, but Haste, Slow, Glitterdust, Web, etc. are largely better) and mostly makes you basically a Rogue with only 2d6 Sneak Attack and only 62 base skill points.

Spellcasting is multiplicative: every additional level in a spellcasting class gives you more spells known, more spells per day and puts you one level closer to higher level spells. And higher level spells are really good! Every additional level is largely better than the previous one. Thus, unless you start on level 20, you should maximize your spellcasting levels (and if you do start at level 20+, you should ensure you have 9th level spells).

[MisterKaws]

The 4th lvl rouge is for uncanny dodge

Get two wands: one for Primal Hunter and one for Primal Instinct. You're a Rogue; you should have enough ranks in UMD to work them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get two wands: one for Primal Hunter and one for Primal Instinct. You're a Rogue; you should have enough ranks in UMD to work them.

Primal Hunter/Instinct/Senses/Speed are on the Sorcerer spell list, so he could just cast them every day, or even get them on a custom Runestaff since a 1/day buff isn't really worth a spell known.

[Dragconixs]

Primal Hunter/Instinct/Senses/Speed are on the Sorcerer spell list, so he could just cast them every day, or even get them on a custom Runestaff since a 1/day buff isn't really worth a spell known.

How munch would that runestaff cost?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

How munch would that runestaff cost?

Custom Runestaff price calculations are on MIC p224:

To set the price of a runestaff, multiply the level of the highest-level spell
in the runestaff by itself, then by 400 gp. For each additional spell in the
runestaff, square that spell's level and multiply by 200 gp. Add the values
together to find the final price of the runestaff. If a spell can be used less
than three times per day, reduce the gp multiplier for that spell by 100 per
use below three (or 50 per use below three, for spells after the first).

Primal Hunter is 2nd, Primal Instinct is 3rd, Primal Senses is 4th, Primal Speed is 6th.

A given spell is priced at (level squared) x 200 gp for 3/day, (level squared) x 150 gp for 2/day, or (level square) x 100 gp for 1/day, but double that for the highest level spell on the runestaff.

So with just 1/day of Primal Hunter (400) and Primal Instinct (900 but highest level) it's 2,200 gp.

Add Primal Senses (1600 but now highest level) and it's 4,500 gp (+2,300 gp to upgrade the previous one).

Add Primal Speed (3600 but now highest level) and it's 10,100 gp (+5,600 gp to upgrade from the previous one).