Who works at a temple?

[Bjarkmundur]

In all seriousness, no one introduces themselves as "warlock" or "sorcerer" or "rogue", people don't identify with HOW they do things, but WHAT they do. "I'm a spell-caster" or "I'm a swordsman" or "I'm an archer" are much more likely phrases.

This got me thinking, what about temples and clerics? What are the positions of a temple? Do they categorize themselves as cleric initiate, cleric assistant, cleric supervisor, arch-cleric etc, or are are there more... elegant English words one could use to describe the hierarchy?

[Nagog]

Typically there are terms to different jobs in a temple, dependant on religion and rigidity of the religion's heirarchy. For example, titles like Bishop, Deacon, Priest, Father/Mother, etc. for most Christian religions

[J-H]

Yeah, just look at some existing hierarchies and copy them.

[gkathellar]

In addition, it's likely that a lot of temple staff aren't clerics at all, but rather a combination of lay followers practicing their professions, and possibly other types of initiate. Clerics are very specifically warrior-priests, and it's probably safe to imagine denominations where they're not the only sworn followers, or perhaps not even the majority.

[Bjarkmundur]

So they are specifically trained/hired/serving as warrior priests.
I'd love to hear from someone who's ready any of the books, regarding how all of this works through a temple. I'm just having a really hard time picturing it. I get that most of the time the temple is simply a place of worship, with priests and various artisans doing all kinds of jobs, but where do clerics fit in? Is it most common that clerics aren't associated with a temple at all, and just wake up one day as 1st level clerics?

[False God]

Most of the IRL terms would be pretty accurate. Though a "cleric" is a member of the "clergy" (see also: clerk) and is a legit term within a religious institution.

[kenposan]

I have a couple temples that have recurring roles. I kept it simple:

High Priest/ess: person in charge
Priest/ess: other clergy
Acolytes: noobies. they also do all grunt work because it builds character.
And a receptionist who seems to be everywhere at once.

And one temple has a library so there is a librarian or two.

[MrStabby]

I have a couple temples that have recurring roles. I kept it simple:

High Priest/ess: person in charge
Priest/ess: other clergy
Acolytes: noobies. they also do all grunt work because it builds character.
And a receptionist who seems to be everywhere at once.

And one temple has a library so there is a librarian or two.

I have this but also some more specialist roles as needed:

Choristers - as bards if needed
those that mind the reliquary
Historians
Theoloists
Messengers/emissaries
Guards
Gardner
Preachers/missionaries

[PhoenixPhyre]

This got me thinking, what about temples and clerics? What are the positions of a temple? Do they categorize themselves as cleric initiate, cleric assistant, cleric supervisor, arch-cleric etc, or are are there more... elegant English words one could use to describe the hierarchy?

This strongly depends on the setting and on the religion.

Here are a few from my setting:
The Church of the Seasons is the major religious organization of the Council Lands. It prioritizes the worship of the four seasonal gods, while still allowing a role for the other 12. It maintains the Temple of the Four in Kaelthia, as well as many other temples and shrines throughout the nation.

The Temple of the Four is led by the Arch-Prelacy, a council of the high priests of the four seasonal gods. Each one has a separate title. For example, Melara's High Priestess is formally known as "The Hand of Mercy" (which is both a title and a name), while Tor Elan's High Priest is the Sun's Fist (also both title and name). The high priests of the other gods have secondary roles.

Beneath them are the Prelates--these are responsible for the day-to-day operations of the temple--and the Archbishopric (the group of leaders responsible for the other temples, churches, and shrines). These stand at the same rank.

Below them are the priests (most of whom have a patron god but who serve all four). Few of these are actually clerics (in the game sense)--they have some powers gifted by the gods but don't get to switch out spells or all that jazz.

Initiates are priests-in-training.

Acolytes are the lay workers and make up the bulk of the "clergy" in most areas. A more rural temple might have a priest with some acolytes drawn from the local populace.

Clerics, proper, stand outside the ecclesiastical hierarchy to a degree. They effectively have special commissions and particular tasks that don't involve standing around in temples much. Even the High Priests are not usually clerics. Mechanically, the Hand of Mercy casts spells like about a level 11 cleric (but with more restricted access, basically domain-adjacent spells only) but has no weapon or armor proficiencies and can summon an avatar (at a cost) of her goddess.

Clerics often belong to religious orders, along with paladins, and other devout folk. Each of these has their own, internal hierarchy. The Sun's Fist is the head of the Order of Solar Radiance, which is also the core of the nation's military.

The dragonborn (and some of the orcs) of the Remnant Dynasty worship the same gods very differently. They have clan-level "patron deities" (lares major and minor) and "antagonist deities" (lares inimicii). Each clan has a Dydaskalos, a priest/teacher who oversees the ritual life of the clan. Major clans will have multiple Dydaskalos, but they don't really have a formal hierarchy. Each Dydaskalos has apprentices and helper acolytes.

[Zetakya]

In any large temple complex there will be a vast army of cleaners, washerwomen, bookkeepers, administrators, flunkies and general hangers on.

[Trask]

In eastern literature, the various posts and positions within a buddhist temple are often translated as "priest, deacon, prelate, bishop" etc so I think those are fine to use as a general hierarchy of station.

I find that names are the most important thing to nail down for actual play, stuff like workers or slaves is mundane and while it might be important to recognize theyre there, whats really going to make individual temples stand out are the people and their fancy robes and titles.

You can use words like Hierophant, Brahmin, Magi, Godi, Shaman, Witch Doctor and any other terms you can find that evoke a feel and style you want and just play with them. Use words that arent traditionally related to religion at all, mix and match,

High Lord Prelate
Most Azure Brahman
Wise and Exalted Masters

My preferences tend towards the baroque and ostentatious, but you can just as easily evoke a quiter, simpler feel by having the priests only insist on being referred to as Mr. or Mrs. or just "Priest".

Its all preference, just dont be afraid to rip off historical things and blend things together and make quirky additions, thats how it feels unique.

[JackPhoenix]

So they are specifically trained/hired/serving as warrior priests.
I'd love to hear from someone who's ready any of the books, regarding how all of this works through a temple. I'm just having a really hard time picturing it. I get that most of the time the temple is simply a place of worship, with priests and various artisans doing all kinds of jobs, but where do clerics fit in? Is it most common that clerics aren't associated with a temple at all, and just wake up one day as 1st level clerics?

Clerics are basically saints. They are the gods' chosen going around doing miracles. As someone on the forums said, you don't become a cleric by believing in god, you become a cleric by the god believing in you. Note that NPC divine spellcasters are not necessarily clerics.

I would say it depends a lot on the gods: more lawful gods would pick people from the existing church hierarchy to become clerics, while more chaotic gods are more likely to pick random people who fit their portfolio... or maybe even some that don't, just for fun.

[Particle_Man]

Mrs. Cake

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Evadne_Cake

[Bjarkmundur]

Clerics are basically saints. They are the gods' chosen going around doing miracles. As someone on the forums said, you don't become a cleric by believing in god, you become a cleric by the god believing in you. Note that NPC divine spellcasters are not necessarily clerics.

Wow, so clerics actually ARE clerics, opposed to rogues are sometimes pirates or assassins or cat burglars etc.

I'm working with a player to piece together her Cleric character. Does it make sense to keep it open ended? Like, she has been chosen, but it has yet to be revealed what her 'higher calling' is? I posted my questions yesterday before reading official material. Seems I didn't have to look long to find what I was looking for:


Not every acolyte or officiant at a temple or shrine is a cleric. Some priests are called to a simple life of temple service, carrying out their gods’ will through prayer and sacrifice, not by magic and strength of arms. In some cities, priesthood amounts to a political office, viewed as a stepping stone to higher positions of authority and involving no communion with a god at all. True clerics are rare in most hierarchies.


When a cleric takes up an adventuring life, it is usually because his or her god demands it. Pursuing the goals of the gods often involves braving dangers beyond the walls of civilization, smiting evil or seeking holy relics in ancient tombs. Many clerics are also expected to protect their deities’ worshipers, which can mean fighting rampaging orcs, negotiating peace between warring nations, or sealing a portal that would allow a demon prince to enter the world.


Most adventuring clerics maintain some connection to established temples and orders of their faiths. A temple might ask for a cleric’s aid, or a high priest might be in a position to demand it. -dndbeyond


Clerics being 'chosen' really changes the general feel of the character. I mean, don't you think there is some animosity or jealousy between devoted priests and clerics. You've been serving your whole life but somehow DAVE get's chosen to get superpowers and go on a quest for your diety?

[Kyutaru]

Who Works at the Temple of the Holy Order of McGuffin

The All-Father, High Priest of McGuffin
- The Holy Warriors of McGuffin
-- Paladins training to serve as McGuffin's enforcers
-- Clerics training to survive McGuffin's holy missions
-- Monks training to protect the temple of McGuffin
-- Fighters training to be McGuffin's crusade soldiers
- The Officio Assassinorum of McGuffin
-- Rogues practicing stealth, searching for vitals, and breaking into houses to spy for McGuffin and eliminate heretics discretely
- The Blessed Accountants of McGuffin
-- Stingy math geeks counting McGuffin's donations from last week
- The Janitors of McGuffin
-- Clean up the holy ****
--- Not allowed off on the weekends
---- Mostly non-human refuges from another faith
- The Vestal Virgins of McGuffins
-- Sorcerers busy mastering all the Charm spells to seduce the politicians for McGuffin
- The Stable Boy of McGuffin
-- Low lvl Ranger who keeps the horses fed for McGuffin's holy warriors

[Tanarii]

What's the Cleric's Background?

If she's an Acolyte, she probably has or had a position in the temple hierarchy. Otherwise, probably not, although she may have been a lay person or temple guard prior to being chosen. Or maybe she was just an independent devout worshipper.

Edit: and yes, it's possible or even likely that the temple heriarchies might be jealous of independent clerics chosen by their gods and granted divine powers.

[Bjarkmundur]

Kyutaru, that should be official materia. Five stars!


What's the Cleric's Background?

If she's an Acolyte, she probably has or had a position in the temple hierarchy. Otherwise, probably not, although she may have been a lay person or temple guard prior to being chosen. Or maybe she was just an independent devout worshipper.

This is interesting. She chose Aasimar, and her first idea was to hide her powers by going to 'cleric school'. People can't tell if you have innate celestial powers when the entire class can cast thaumaturgy. So apart from the "whatever works creative freedom it's a cooperative storytelling game and all that", this backstory doesn't really hold up. I mean, there's no real reason to hide her heritage, seeing how anyone can be chosen as a holy warrior.

Coupled with the fact that a cleric doesn't need to be associated with a temple at all, this is a good thing.

Cleric -> Chosen by a diety -> doesn't need to know why -> doesn't have to be part of an organization = a lot of creative freedom for a backstory

[DeadMech]

An example of of cleric might be a figure like Joan of Arc. Someone who their god choose for a mission. Who received directly a mission and/or blessing. But not automatically someone attached to the church hierarchy.

Where as you should feel free to look into the organization of real world churches to see what sorta of positions exist.

Starting at the grassroots you probably have volunteers. People who organize public events and bakesales, youth groups, missionaries or relief workers. People working in charities. Ordinary people, believers, who perform a variety of functions because there are tasks that the church needs done and people willing to do so without having to be part of the internal hierarchies and whom the church may not be able to compensate with pay or position. Maybe they want to help out but have other obligations. Maybe they are interested in a path into serving more directly and joining the clergy. And this might be a more modern thing

Then you may depending on the local conditions you might have skilled labour that is hired by a church to perform some functions but who also aren't part of the hierarchies. People providing the services needed for the local church to perform it's functions. A carpenter or other similar professions or at least a handyman who maintains the buildings if the particular religion makes use of structures. A groundskeeper perhaps who keep the land the church is build on in order. A candle maker providing the candles used in services or other professions making things that are regularly used in quantities large enough to justify having them permanently contracted. Perhaps gravediggers or florists or a seamstress. Maybe cooks and janitors.

Then we get into people who are part of the church hierarchies and they may vary between religions but also different location within the same religion that serve different functions. Places of worship for a local population, places of worship for pilgrimages that exist in specific places important to the religion, outreach and works locations like schools or orphanages or shelters, or hospitals.

And we haven't even gotten into organizational structures. Political people or councils who organize the efforts of entire regions or states religious assets. If it's a world spanning organization then layers above that as well, perhaps continental organization and world organization and maybe even beyond that planar organizations since this is DnD. The people supporting all these structures might have wildly different jobs and purposes. Scholars, scribes, clerks, messengers, couriers, tithe and alm collectors,

They probably have an investigative branch because all these Joan of Arc types appear all the time and you have to know who's a charlatan, who's a heretic, who's mentally ill, who's the real deal. Your inquisitors who might be classed characters, maybe even divinely magic characters or npc substitutes.

You might have a branch of people in a dnd setting who are effectively the world health organization, CDC, or Doctors without borders. Divinely magic people who respond to the outbreaks of disease or conflict in an organized fashion traveling where ever is deemed most urgent.

Then we might have church military or security forces. Your paladins and crusaders. Your honour guards protecting important people, or locations, or relics. maybe even a sort of police.

Oh and of course the deities, pantheons, planar beings who serve them. Whom may or may not be directly or indirectly controlling the whole shebang.

Probably forgetting a great deal of potential areas to explore. And it's all of course coming from a particular perspective. How much of this you need or want is up to you. If you and your table don't care about the intricacies beyond a point then don't worry about it.

[TripleD]

An example of of cleric might be a figure like Joan of Arc. Someone who their god choose for a mission. Who received directly a mission and/or blessing. But not automatically someone attached to the church hierarchy.


I also think a Jonah inspired cleric could be fun.

“You are my chosen! I have granted you the powers to fulfill the mission I have laid at your feet.”

“..... um, yeah, I think I’m gonna say ‘no’ to that.”

*Runs like hell. Divine hijinks follow*

[PhoenixPhyre]

I also think a Jonah inspired cleric could be fun.

“You are my chosen! I have granted you the powers to fulfill the mission I have laid at your feet.”

“..... um, yeah, I think I’m gonna say ‘no’ to that.”

*Runs like hell. Divine hijinks follow*

I had an idea similar to that:

Dwarven orphan, raised by gnomes as a jeweler (Guild Artisan background). One day he's chosen by a gnomish god (I forget who, right now, but Nature domain). He refuses. That would involve going outside, among people. He's comfortable right here, thank you very much.

Problems ensue. He finally accepts his position after his shop gets burnt down by cultists[1], but grudgingly. He'd be "team mom" and a dedicated adventurer, but also continually arguing with his deity, trying to find workarounds, alternate routes, etc. Things that don't involve getting hands dirty. More banter than anything though.

[1] the character was for a PotA game, but I ended up playing a different one instead.

[ImproperJustice]

Another spin on it, as someone who has worked IRL with church leadership:

Clerics are kinds like Missionaries in Western Orthodox churches.

They have all the power and authority of a priest / priestess but are also charged with going forth and engaging in public works and spreading the message.
I think they would be welcome at most temples and could even lead services for a time, but then there would be an expectation for them to move on shortly there after.
I equate them to the Christian disciples in ACTS that went around establishing churches, showing signs / wonders/ miracles etc... when needed and then moving on.

In the same way a Cleric goes forth to do the works of their deity, leaves a legacy, and then moves on.

The day to day stuff at the temple will be handled by priests, ministers, guards, laborers, and lay people.
Which means an every day priest may have different spell casting abilities or domain powers than a Cleric since they preside over an established flock.

Maybe that helps?

[Tanarii]

[COLOR=#000000]
This is interesting. She chose Aasimar, and her first idea was to hide her powers by going to 'cleric school'. People can't tell if you have innate celestial powers when the entire class can cast thaumaturgy. So apart from the "whatever works creative freedom it's a cooperative storytelling game and all that", this backstory doesn't really hold up. I mean, there's no real reason to hide her heritage, seeing how anyone can be chosen as a holy warrior.

Coupled with the fact that a cleric doesn't need to be associated with a temple at all, this is a good thing.

Cleric -> Chosen by a diety -> doesn't need to know why -> doesn't have to be part of an organization = a lot of creative freedom for a backstory
I think you misunderstood my question. What's her Background, capital B and selected as part of the character creation process. Not backstory.

The only Background that explicitly is part of a temple hierarchy is the Acolyte. And possibly: Soldier as a Temple Guard, although those would quite likely be Fighter Acolytes in some or even most hierarchies; or Hermit as part of a religious Monastary or Fringe Cultist Sect. All the others would be laypeople.

Or have you created custom Backgrounds for your setting, or introduced on from other non-PHB sources?

[Vogie]

Lots of people work at a temple, and clerics may not be among them.

It also depends on the deity - You could have a Forge Cleric of Gond, for example, or someone with a guild artisan background, and work with the temple alongside acolytes. An Artificer Acolyte of Gond may also work in the temple.

Anyone with an Entertainer background who worships Lliira could work in her temple, as well as Bards, Clerics, and Acolytes. That wouldn't make sense for Gond, but makes perfect sense for Lliira.

Matt Colville's Priest is an excellent novel about a cleric who is an Arrogate, which is an cleric who follows his deity but who was removed from the priesthood for the purpose of being allowed to acting specifically outside the church... as they're often needed to do things the church cannot condone.

[Sigreid]

Given the way religions tend to work in D&D it could very well be that priest/priestess refers to those without divine power who minister to and teach the congregation and organize events to benefit the community while cleric specifically refers to those blessed with the holy power of their god who are typically given greater assignments than the priests. In addition to the priests and clerics there would likely be grounds keepers, librarians, clerks, cooks, wine stewards, guards, and any number of things depending on the size and power of that particular church.