Hide Life

[Tor the Fallen]

There's a 3.0 level 8 or 9 spell called Hide Life that's in the 3.0 splat book for mages. It's an instantaneous spell, where you spend a few xp, then put your life force in either a pinky toe or finger, and cut it off with a pure silver sickle.

This makes it so you can't die from damage- you just keep accruing negative hp. If your finger is destroyed, your life moves back into your body, and if you're above -10hp, you're fine.

Anyone know about this/if it's still 3.5 legit?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'm not sure if it has recieved an official update, but even if it hasn't hide life is still legit. The 3.5 revision never invalidated any of the old material. Some of it may need some changes to bring it into line with new rules, though. See the "Why a Revision" sidebar within the first few pages of the PHB, DMG, or MM for details.

Hide life doesn't appear to have anything that contradicts 3.5 rules, so it should be useable pretty much as-is.

EDIT: Okay, I just caught the reference to partial actions. If you change "partial action" to "standard action," that should be all the updating it needs.

[Fax Celestis]

WTF is this? "Phylactery Lite"?

[sikyon]

Wasn't this in a novel that I read as a kid... Taaran or something?

Edit: Found it as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Prydain

I guess D&D just stole this right off of the books...

[The_Werebear]

WTF is this? "Phylactery Lite"?

Phylactery with no +4 level adjustment.

Keep in mind, they can still reduce you to dust and scatter you with that spell up. Heal that.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Big drawback is that if reduced to -10 hp or lower, while you may still live, you can no longer be healed. So if the spell ends—say because you blundered into an antimagic field—you'd die right away.

[mostlyharmful]

No, you don't. hence phylactery lite. You just accrue LOTS of negative hp which take blooody ages to heal without a ring of regen or clerics or anything. once you put your little toe into stasis it's all clear sailing. This is essentially the cool bits of lich without any of that LA+4 rubbish, plus you get to keep you con bonus.:smallcool:

edit: you don't die because the spell is on the toe NOT you. and the toe is in a stronghold hundreds of miles away guarded by big scarey-ass golems.

[Shas aia Toriia]

No. Nothing important is ever hidden in the Forsaken Citadel, guarded by the Eternity Dragons, with hundreds of magical traps and guardians. It is in a swiss bank.

[Balkash]

No. Nothing important is ever hidden in the Forsaken Citadel, guarded by the Eternity Dragons, with hundreds of magical traps and guardians. It is in a swiss bank.

lol

actually i think the safest place for a toe would be in a big graveyard, a couple metres down. that way if anyone found it, it wouldnt seem out of place. as well, no graverobber is gonna just grab a toe. they'd rather have the whole body laying 2 feet over there. might need to cast gentle repose or something though...

[Shas aia Toriia]

No, I'm not joking. Those places scream "Hey, Adventurers!!! Come here! There is something in here that is important. Even if it doesn't seem important, it will be eventually!!!"

[Shhalahr Windrider]

No, you don't. hence phylactery lite. You just accrue LOTS of negative hp which take blooody ages to heal without a ring of regen or clerics or anything.
From the spell: "If you would otherwise be dead, you cannot beefit from healing and simply fall dead if the spell is ended." (emphasis mine)

However, the antimagic field part is incorrect. I wrote that thinking the spell was permanent. It's actually Instantaneous. But there are other ways to break the spell. The most obvious is to destroy the body part hiding the life force as outlined in the spell description. Depending on how you read it, something like break enchantment could also work.


edit: you don't die because the spell is on the toe NOT you. and the toe is in a stronghold hundreds of miles away guarded by big scarey-ass golems.
The spell has a personal range and a target of "You." It does not have a target of "One severed appendage" or anythign similar. The magic affects all of you.


actually i think the safest place for a toe would be in a big graveyard, a couple metres down. that way if anyone found it, it wouldnt seem out of place. as well, no graverobber is gonna just grab a toe. they'd rather have the whole body laying 2 feet over there. might need to cast gentle repose or something though...
Read a ghost story once that involved a person that dug up a toe in his back yard and made soup out of it. With crazy people like that, you can never be sure how safe it would be.

[Raolin_Fenix]

I think in 3.5, if you end up with negative lethal damage equal to your maximum positive HP, your corpse is destroyed. So you probably still wouldn't die from the spell, but you would be rendered useless for anything short of a True Resurrection spell.

[Guy_Whozevl]

If you want to hide the toe, just be a race with fire immunity. Then lock up the toe in a fireproof box and chuck it in a volcano. Problem solved. Just make it as inconspicuous as possible.

[Jothki]

No. Nothing important is ever hidden in the Forsaken Citadel, guarded by the Eternity Dragons, with hundreds of magical traps and guardians. It is in a swiss bank.

Recent popular literature suggests that that might not be the best of ideas.

[Jack Mann]

Wasn't this in a novel that I read as a kid... Taaran or something?

Edit: Found it as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Prydain

I guess D&D just stole this right off of the books...

On the one hand, I want to applaud you on your excellent taste in fantasy literature. The Chronicles of Prydain are a wonderful series, and the world is poorer now that Lloyd Alexander has died.

On the other hand, you need some manner of smacking about for your woeful ignorance in the field of mythology and folklore. The idea of placing your lifeforce into a single part of yourself (or even outside of yourself) is a stock concept of fairy tales, myths, and religions the world over. I've personally seen it in Irish, Slavic, and Native American stories. I am afraid that it was not invented by Lloyd Alexander, but was adapted by him into his story (as he adapted many Welsh myths into the series). To say that Dungeons and Dragons has stolen the idea from him is unlikely, as it predates both by hundreds (if not thousands) of years. One may as well argue that they stole the idea of unicorns from Peter Beagle.


I think in 3.5, if you end up with negative lethal damage equal to your maximum positive HP, your corpse is destroyed. So you probably still wouldn't die from the spell, but you would be rendered useless for anything short of a True Resurrection spell.

I must have missed that rule. Do you have a source?

[Raolin_Fenix]

I must have missed that rule. Do you have a source?

Nope!

So don't believe a word of it immediately. I have no idea where I heard it. In fact, I could just be remembering the part of ship-to-ship combat in futuristic campaigns, where your ship is disabled at negative HP and only actually explodes if its negative equals its maximum positive. I get confused a lot, which is why I add the "I think" clause to a lot of what I say. :P

[Jack Mann]

Sounds like a house rule.

I can see getting damaged to such an extent that raise dead doesn't work, but really, no matter how hard you get hit with a sword, there should be enough left for resurrection. Even a shock trooper/leap attack/lion totem barbarian getting multiple critical hits with a greataxe doesn't atomize the body. Puree, maybe.

[SleepingOrange]

The Swiss bank idea is one I use in relation to my ACTUAL liches. (PC liches no less. Go non-evil rules in the Libris Mortis!) I make the phylactery from a mildly useful item; a +2 ring of protection, a minor-to-medium wondrous item, some-thing like that. Some-thing nice that's unlikely to be destroyed, but not fantastic enough for some-one powerful enough to take down my lich to keep. He'll sell, it, and a week later, GUESS WHO?

[slexlollar89]

This spell could be very problematic though, as a PC (maybe a paladin or cleric) could just cast the spell on his pinky finger, remove it, and say... give it to a church or shrine as a "holy relic" despit the numerous protests of the other party members and the bad gut feeling of the DM, then proceed to win fame, fortune, women, men, and glory because he is immortal.

Yeah... the fame and women I could handle, but I had a problem with all the men after about ten years.

[The_Werebear]

Sounds like a house rule.

I can see getting damaged to such an extent that raise dead doesn't work, but really, no matter how hard you get hit with a sword, there should be enough left for resurrection. Even a shock trooper/leap attack/lion totem barbarian getting multiple critical hits with a greataxe doesn't atomize the body. Puree, maybe.

Heh. I actually, probably would rule that all that is left is a pile of random gore spread across a good 40 square feet. Still, I wonder what would happen with that spell. Would you slowly gather hitpoints at the normal rate? I remember this spell, but not the specifics, and I don't see any reason why you wouldn't slowly pull together, as you aren't really dead.

Besides, this spell still leaves you vulnerable to imprisonment, baleful polymorph, dominate person (really bad, as you can't get anything for resisting actions that could cause your death because you really can't die), and other forms of incapacitation.

[Kaelik]

Heh. I actually, probably would rule that all that is left is a pile of random gore spread across a good 40 square feet. Still, I wonder what would happen with that spell. Would you slowly gather hitpoints at the normal rate? I remember this spell, but not the specifics, and I don't see any reason why you wouldn't slowly pull together, as you aren't really dead.

Besides, this spell still leaves you vulnerable to imprisonment, baleful polymorph, dominate person (really bad, as you can't get anything for resisting actions that could cause your death because you really can't die), and other forms of incapacitation.

Technically it only seems to matter for HP damage. So every single Death Effect, including the coup de grace and massive damage, would still kill you.

[Jack Mann]

Heh. I actually, probably would rule that all that is left is a pile of random gore spread across a good 40 square feet.

Yes, but that gore is still sufficient for resurrection, if not raise dead. I mean, even disintegration allows for resurrection.

[0oo0]

Does the spell say anything about aging effects? If not, add another way for the toe-less wonder to die.

[Nowhere Girl]

Heh. I actually, probably would rule that all that is left is a pile of random gore spread across a good 40 square feet. Still, I wonder what would happen with that spell. Would you slowly gather hitpoints at the normal rate? I remember this spell, but not the specifics, and I don't see any reason why you wouldn't slowly pull together, as you aren't really dead.

Besides, this spell still leaves you vulnerable to imprisonment, baleful polymorph, dominate person (really bad, as you can't get anything for resisting actions that could cause your death because you really can't die), and other forms of incapacitation.

That just made me think of an angle I'm not sure anyone else considered:

If you're really not dead, despite being a pile of random gore ... are you at all conscious still? If so, do your nerves work?

It's one thing to be injured in battle -- your adrenaline's probably working overtime, and even if you still feel the pain, you're distracted by the immediate survival-related concerns. Later, you have healing to look forward to, and in a world like your typical D&D place, you may be getting medical care far superior to even the best modern hospitals.

But what if you're unable to die and unable to heal? Unless the spell also takes away the pain of your injuries, just how much can you take? How long before the sheer, unceasing agony drives you mad?

[SleepingOrange]

If your head is separate from your body, your nerves probably couldn't transmit signals to your brain; they'd be firing like crazy, but as the saying goes, 'they're knocking but no-body's home'.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Technically it only seems to matter for HP damage. So every single Death Effect, including the coup de grace and massive damage, would still kill you.
So far no revised version has come up, so I'm still working off of Tome and Blood, and according to that, it works on almost any effect that would kill you:


"If damage or a spell effect would usually render you disabled, dying, or dead, you ignor the usual effects. Instead, you are staggered (only able to take partial actions a single standard action per round.)" (revision mine)

So, no, you survive death effects just fine.

[The_Werebear]

So... How, I wonder, are you taking standard actions when you fail your save against Disintigrate and are a pile of floating dust motes. Heh, I can imagine that, actually.

You hit the evil wizard with the mighty green ray of Disintigrate. With a shriek, he collapses into a small pile of dust and charred possessions....Which slowly starts to inch away from you, threatening to get revenge just as soon as he has fingers again.

[Tor the Fallen]

So, after the frenzied shock trooper reduces you to -1000 hp, what would be a quick way to get back to life? 3.0 heal? Ring of regeneration? Shapechange into a troll?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

So, after the frenzied shock trooper reduces you to -1000 hp, what would be a quick way to get back to life?
As I pointed out above, in such a case you would not normally be alive and, therefore, would not be able to heal at all. Your only real option is to get a cleric, destroy your body part (ending the spell and killing you), and have the cleric raise you.

[The_Werebear]

I read through the spell. I'm not seeing it the way you are. I think nonmagical return of hitpoints still counts. Also, I think you are only staggered, despite 1,000 damage. Meaning, you just keep walking until the spell ends. All that damage means nothing except you are staggered rather than dead.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I read through the spell. I'm not seeing it the way you are. I think nonmagical return of hitpoints still counts.
Even in 3.0, the rules were generally clear when they referred to a distinction between natural and magical healing. There is no such distinction being drawn in the text of hide life. So it must be referring to healing in general—magical, natural, or otherwise.


Also, I think you are only staggered, despite 1,000 damage.
That is correct. But being staggered is a huge penalty. It would do well to remove such a condition.

[OneWinged4ngel]

WTF is this? "Phylactery Lite"?

Kinda. It's basically just one more of the myriad ways that the *supposedly* squishy Wizards are actually way harder to kill than the *supposedly* hard targets.

As for somewhat similar things in 3.5, there's a 3.5 spell which is only 4th level for Clerics called "Delay Death." It's cast as an immediate action ranged target spell, and makes the target immune to death by hit point damage for (IIRC) 1 round / level. I included it in my healin' guide.