Healing the Undead

[Hish]

What options does an undead have for healing? HP is covered by Inflict spells and Harm, but healing is much more broad than that.

Restoration can target undead, so that covers ability drain and damage. Revive Undead can restore them to unlife after they're destroyed, but it has to be used soon after death. Are there any better long term options?

I can't find a replacement for Regenerate. I imagine undead lose body parts more often than living creatures (a result of feeling no pain, never bleeding out, and never getting infected after an amputation).

[Venger]

What options does an undead have for healing? HP is covered by Inflict spells and Harm, but healing is much more broad than that.

Restoration can target undead, so that covers ability drain and damage. Revive Undead can restore them to unlife after they're destroyed, but it has to be used soon after death. Are there any better long term options?

I can't find a replacement for Regenerate. I imagine undead lose body parts more often than living creatures (a result of feeling no pain, never bleeding out, and never getting infected after an amputation).
undead are immune to almost all the other statuses that healing spells undo. what specifically is it you need aside from regenerate?

there really aren't very many effects in the game that sever body parts . how often is your gm having npcs carve steaks off you after you're incapacitated?

[Silva Stormrage]

Spark of Life makes it targetable by healing spells. Use that in conjunction with regeneration should work (Not sure if it does by RAW but it seems like RAI that should work).

[Venger]

Spark of Life makes it targetable by healing spells. Use that in conjunction with regeneration should work (Not sure if it does by RAW but it seems like RAI that should work).

No it doesn't. It flips off its immunities, but doesn't change the creature's type and doesn't make it susceptible to healing spells as a rule. positive energy, in fact, still harms it while it's under the effect of spark of life.

[Silva Stormrage]

No it doesn't. It flips off its immunities, but doesn't change the creature's type and doesn't make it susceptible to healing spells as a rule. positive energy, in fact, still harms it while it's under the effect of spark of life.

I just checked the spell compendium. It explicitly states that both negative energy and positive energy heal the undead creature under spark of life's effect.

"While it is under the effect of this spell, both negative energy (such as inflict spells) and positive energy (such as cure spells) heal damage to the undead creature, rather than damaging it.

An undead creature affected by this spell retains all of its other traits."

This only resolves around hit point damage so regenerate's restoring limb property doesn't apply RAW but I think thats an issue fixed by reasonable reading of RAI.

[Hish]

there really aren't very many effects in the game that sever body parts . how often is your gm having npcs carve steaks off you after you're incapacitated?

I'm the DM, this is more for worldbuilding than anything else. I'm going to put together a necropolis and I'm trying to figure out what accommodations the clerics would need to make to heal undead residents. I want replacements for all the main healing spells to be available.

Spark of Life + Regenerate seems like a reasonable ruling.

[Venger]

I just checked the spell compendium. It explicitly states that both negative energy and positive energy heal the undead creature under spark of life's effect.

"While it is under the effect of this spell, both negative energy (such as inflict spells) and positive energy (such as cure spells) heal damage to the undead creature, rather than damaging it.

An undead creature affected by this spell retains all of its other traits."

This only resolves around hit point damage so regenerate's restoring limb property doesn't apply RAW but I think thats an issue fixed by reasonable reading of RAI.
Right, I'm aware. We were just discussing positive energy.


I'm the DM, this is more for worldbuilding than anything else. I'm going to put together a necropolis and I'm trying to figure out what accommodations the clerics would need to make to heal undead residents. I want replacements for all the main healing spells to be available.

Spark of Life + Regenerate seems like a reasonable ruling.
Well, if you're the dm, you can just eliminate the clause about those spells only working on the living.

[Oberron]

Fast healing works for undead and black sand heals them 1d4 a round

[InvisibleBison]

I'm the DM, this is more for worldbuilding than anything else. I'm going to put together a necropolis and I'm trying to figure out what accommodations the clerics would need to make to heal undead residents. I want replacements for all the main healing spells to be available.

A civilization of undead would presumably have researched custom spells to fill whatever needs the standard spells cannot.

[MisterKaws]

I'm reasonably certain undead can be revived via True Resurrection, but that's expensive as hell, so not a long term solution.

Maybe make a custom version of Resurrection that only targets corpses of intelligent undead with class levels? Reviving creatures with racial HD only usually leads to massive silliness.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Ironically enough, tossing the undead onto the positive energy plane heals them. They're actually safer on the plane than living creatures are, since there's no chance of them asploding.

[Venger]

Ironically enough, tossing the undead onto the positive energy plane heals them. They're actually safer on the plane than living creatures are, since there's no chance of them asploding.

Yes. This is because there's no general rule that positive energy actually hurts undead. It's just something tacked on to every other effect that channels positive energy.

[enderlord99]

Right, I'm aware. We were just discussing positive energy.

...Which heals them while under the spell effect (according to the first line) but which you claimed doesn't.

[The Viscount]

Replacing lost limbs is a bizarrely rare effect, but you can do it, albeit slowly, with a dukar hand coral.

[Heliomance]

Spark of Life makes it targetable by healing spells. Use that in conjunction with regeneration should work (Not sure if it does by RAW but it seems like RAI that should work).

Alas not - Spark of Life doesn't do anything about targetting restrictions, it just overrides the clause on Cure Light Wounds that says it deals damage to undead. Regenerate sadly has Target: Living creature touched, so undead are not valid targets even with Spark of Life.

Honestly for restoring undead creatures' limbs, you're probably best off with a needle and thread. Or maybe Flesh to Stone -> Make Whole -> Stone to Flesh?


I'm reasonably certain undead can be revived via True Resurrection, but that's expensive as hell, so not a long term solution.

Maybe make a custom version of Resurrection that only targets corpses of intelligent undead with class levels? Reviving creatures with racial HD only usually leads to massive silliness.

True Res raises the living creature the undead used to be, it doesn't restore them to unlife.

[Silva Stormrage]

Alas not - Spark of Life doesn't do anything about targetting restrictions, it just overrides the clause on Cure Light Wounds that says it deals damage to undead. Regenerate sadly has Target: Living creature touched, so undead are not valid targets even with Spark of Life.

Honestly for restoring undead creatures' limbs, you're probably best off with a needle and thread. Or maybe Flesh to Stone -> Make Whole -> Stone to Flesh?



True Res raises the living creature the undead used to be, it doesn't restore them to unlife.

I know, or at least Venger brought it up earlier in the thread but the OP seems to be fine with houseruling it. It seems like something that should work RAI or at least not be much of a stretch to houserule if you prefer not to homebrew up an entirely new "Regenerate Undead" spell.

I mean Miracle would also work in a pinch but that seems a bit overkill.

[Venger]

I know, or at least Venger brought it up earlier in the thread but the OP seems to be fine with houseruling it. It seems like something that should work RAI or at least not be much of a stretch to houserule if you prefer not to homebrew up an entirely new "Regenerate Undead" spell.

I mean Miracle would also work in a pinch but that seems a bit overkill.

Yeah that works or, as the Viscount said, it can be done very cheaply with dukar hand coral.

[Zombimode]

My current Eberron character got killed and arose as a Custom Corpse Creature (lost Con, gained undead immunities, all past and future HD are d12; no other qualities and no LA, a fair deal in my book).

To get arround the healing issue I took a level of Dread Necromancer. The Charnel Touch ability provides an unlimited but slow means of healing for the undead.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

My current Eberron character got killed and arose as a Custom Corpse Creature (lost Con, gained undead immunities, all past and future HD are d12; no other qualities and no LA, a fair deal in my book).So you're living up to your user-name, then.


To get arround the healing issue I took a level of Dread Necromancer. The Charnel Touch ability provides an unlimited but slow means of healing for the undead.Fill your shoes up with some black sand, from Sandstorm, for some cheap fast healing. Maybe inject some into your thoracic cavity.

It's too bad you can't get the benefits of the Corpsecrafter feats and having been animated on unhallowed ground...

[MisterKaws]

Alas not - Spark of Life doesn't do anything about targetting restrictions, it just overrides the clause on Cure Light Wounds that says it deals damage to undead. Regenerate sadly has Target: Living creature touched, so undead are not valid targets even with Spark of Life.

Honestly for restoring undead creatures' limbs, you're probably best off with a needle and thread. Or maybe Flesh to Stone -> Make Whole -> Stone to Flesh?



True Res raises the living creature the undead used to be, it doesn't restore them to unlife.

Well, then. Guess we're restricted to making everyone liches then.


My current Eberron character got killed and arose as a Custom Corpse Creature (lost Con, gained undead immunities, all past and future HD are d12; no other qualities and no LA, a fair deal in my book).

To get arround the healing issue I took a level of Dread Necromancer. The Charnel Touch ability provides an unlimited but slow means of healing for the undead.

Isn't that just a Necropolitan without all the stuff that makes Necropolitans playable?

[Silva Stormrage]

Isn't that just a Necropolitan without all the stuff that makes NEcropolitans playable?

Due to the "If it doesn't have a entry in the template description it doesn't modify that attribute" rule Bone and Corpse creature are LA + 0. They are pretty much strictly superior to Necropolitain due to 1) Not having to go through a ritual that costs you a level and 2) Having stat boosts to NA and ability scores and other various bonuses.

Also it's much easier to get corpse crafter bonuses counted as they can be created with the spell Create Undead. It is somewhat cheesy/not intended for those templates to be playable but RAW they totally are. It was probably an oversight since I think LA rules were basically just introduced by the time BoVD rolled around.

Edit: Aaaannnnd I misread the quote. It's apparently a "Custom" corpse creature which removes the bonuses that corpse creature gets, nvm. The only remaining bonus is probably the easily affected by corpse crafter feats.

[rrwoods]

there's no chance of them asploding.

Wait why not?

EDIT: never mind I see it; the explode effect allows a fort save (and doesn’t work on objects) so undead are immune to it.

[Zombimode]

Isn't that just a Necropolitan without all the stuff that makes Necropolitans playable?

Well, Necropolitans get +2 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. controll undead and "natural healing", at the cost of "pseudo" LA +1.

I would rather not get the piddly boni and retain the level (especially since we are not really playing with Exp, so losing a level could very likely mean that it is gone for good).

[MisterKaws]

Well, Necropolitans get +2 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. controll undead and "natural healing", at the cost of "pseudo" LA +1.

I would rather not get the piddly boni and retain the level (especially since we are not really playing with Exp, so losing a level could very likely mean that it is gone for good).

On that case, the problem is with your house-rules, not the template. On a normal game with XP, the negative level quickly compensates, and sometimes even rebounds past the rest of the party, because of how XP is distributed.

[Venger]

Due to the "If it doesn't have a entry in the template description it doesn't modify that attribute" rule Bone and Corpse creature are LA + 0. They are pretty much strictly superior to Necropolitain due to 1) Not having to go through a ritual that costs you a level and 2) Having stat boosts to NA and ability scores and other various bonuses.

Also it's much easier to get corpse crafter bonuses counted as they can be created with the spell Create Undead. It is somewhat cheesy/not intended for those templates to be playable but RAW they totally are. It was probably an oversight since I think LA rules were basically just introduced by the time BoVD rolled around.

Edit: Aaaannnnd I misread the quote. It's apparently a "Custom" corpse creature which removes the bonuses that corpse creature gets, nvm. The only remaining bonus is probably the easily affected by corpse crafter feats.
It also presumably added in an LA for corpse creature even if it's 0, since there isn't one printed in bovd.

Well, Necropolitans get +2 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. controll undead and "natural healing", at the cost of "pseudo" LA +1.

I would rather not get the piddly boni and retain the level (especially since we are not really playing with Exp, so losing a level could very likely mean that it is gone for good).
That's weird. Does your gm just do ad hoc?


On that case, the problem is with your house-rules, not the template. On a normal game with XP, the negative level quickly compensates, and sometimes even rebounds past the rest of the party, because of how XP is distributed.
Yeah, you'll rubberband past the party because you'll gain xp more quickly than them for that level and then eventually more or less even out.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

boniThat's skeletons.

[Zombimode]

On that case, the problem is with your house-rules, not the template. On a normal game with XP, the negative level quickly compensates, and sometimes even rebounds past the rest of the party, because of how XP is distributed.

Well, it all depends on the context and the group :smallsmile:
Level-up-when-the-DM-feels-like-it is not that uncommon and it seems to work out for many groups. It's not my prefered way of doing things, but I can definitely see the merits. And it fits my DM's style, so I don't mind. We even have an artificer in the party! But I can also see how that would be a problem for other groups.

For the "basic undead" race my character is now: well, I didn't actually lost all that much from my old race. It's big selling points where the Aberration type and a free and scaling symbiont. The Aberration type got replaced by the in most cases more powerful undead type. By RAW I should have lost my symbionts as well as the ability to host them at all, but since symbionts are such a big element in both my build and my character's identity and conflicts we just hand-waved that so that my character still has all his symbionts. All in all, I lost some hit-points, my invested point-buy-points in con, and my awesome aberration type for Alter Self, but gained the ridiculously strong undead immunities.
All in all, although unplanned (by the DM) and unexpected, I really welcome this change :smallsmile:

But again, I can see how this would not go well in other groups.

[rrwoods]

My DM runs a “level up when the DM feels like it” style game, and we handle LA fairly. We figure out what XP he wants to give out to the modal party level to get the desired effect (level up, get halfway, whatever) and then reverse engineer what XP the other members of the party get.