Arcane archer pathfinder?

[Mrark]

Hi everyone. I like the arcane archer class, and I am starting a new pathfinder group, starting al level 1. Could you give me any advice about how to optimise it? Like which classes, abilities, feats are best to take and when, and similiar. Thank you!

[Kurald Galain]

I recommend playing a Magus with the Eldritch Archer archetype. You don't need any prestige classing and your abilities all come on-line at level 1 or 2 at the latest.

[Eldariel]

Let's see now. Arcane Archer is at its best with high level spells. As per usual, Wizard is the best option. Ranger is a nice class for martial stuff: good skills, Ranger Wands, all sorts of nice minor bonuses and little in terms of wasted stuff.

Barbarian and Slayer are other two decent options. If you go Slayer, you want two levels for Slayer Talent to get to the combat maneuver option. Otherwise Martial 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer 3. Instead of Eldritch Knight 3 you can also go Hell Knight Signifer 4, but that's more feat intensive (though saves you 2 feats in Prestigious Spellcaster and its prereq). Now you have a choice to make. Eldritch Knight +7 saves you spellcasting levels. This gives you a lot of feats to work with.

Arcane Archer +7 would instead give you some extremely restricted abilities. Honestly, the 2 best AA class features are on levels 1-3. The only other ability of note is Aligned Arrows but that's 6 more levels (and two more feats on Prestigious Spellcaster) for one ability. You can, still, just go down Arcane Archer too without feeling too bad though. You still cast 9th level spells and have 18ish BAB so you'll be fine. By far the best ability of Arcane Archer is Imbue Arrow though, and to make the most of it, you need as high level spells as possible.

[StreamOfTheSky]

You'll want to lose as few CL as possible, and play as a primary caster w/ some cool new tricks, pretty much entirely the Imbue Arrow. So it requires BAB +6, but I'd only drop at most 1 level in a martial class before entering and just...wait a while. Fighter 1 / Wizard or Sorc 10 being the simplest.
Or...since it's a better class to advance in anyway... Do something like Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 3 (or Ftr 1 / Sorc 6 / EK 2). Either route loses you only 2 CL prior to AA.
How far you go into AA comes down to how many lost CL you can offset with traits or backgrounds or whatever... I think there was at least a trait to offset 2 lost CL and some background thing to offset another 1 or 2? You'll either want to go to level 4 (lose 1 more CL) or level 8 at most (2 more lost CL). Once you hit your breakout point, go back to Eldritch Knight or the primary caster class, depending on how you entered.

For tricks....look for area spells with hilarious new uses with Imbue Arrow. My two top picks are Emergency Force Sphere (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/emergency-force-sphere/) (immediate action, trap a foe at best or at least block line of effect to ruin his spell/attack) and Antimagic Field (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/antimagic-field/) (just in general hoses casters and wild shapers, plus shuts down melee foes' magical flight so you can shoot them from the air w/ impunity; also could just shoot the party fighter w/ it so he can give antimagic hugs).
This is why I say to lose as few CL as possible. Not specifically because of a strict optimization sense of "it's never worth losing a CL!" so much as...a lot of the nicest tricks consume mid to high level spell slots...

[Psyren]

I'll second Eldariel's suggestion if all you want to do is shoot arrows and cast spells; I'll break it down a bit further below.

Play Eldritch Archer if you:

- Want to combine archery and spellcasting seamlessly
- Be a spellcasting archer much earlier in your career
- Want to primarily be a martial class that deals heavy damage and has some tricks up their sleeve
- Expect the campaign to run 12 levels or less

Play Arcane Archer if you want to:

- Be a primary caster for your group who just happens to use a bow
- Break targeting restrictions for various area spells, particularly emanations
- Don't mind just being a (slightly weaker) wizard for most of your career
- Want to (eventually) get +16 BAB and 9th-level spells
- Expect the campaign to run 13 levels or more
- Prestigious Spellcaster (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster/) (PrS) and Eldritch Knight are available to you

A good AA build (with PrS) is Ranger 1/Wiz 5/EK 3/AA 7/EK +4 - this will get you +17 BAB (4 attacks base) and 18 CL for 9ths, which you can boost to your full 20 CL via Magical Knack. But you won't really start to be an arcane archer until level 10, and you won't get that 4th attack until ECL 19.

If PrS is not allowed, instead go with Rgr 1/Wiz 5/EK 3/AA 4/EK +7. You lose Phase Arrow here but get +17 BAB and 17 CL to still have 9ths.

[StSword]

Waiting four more levels before you can get in on the arcane archer fun seems inconvenient.

If your DM lets third party material, Purple Duck Games produced "prestige archetypes," variant classes that combine base classes with prestige classes so one can effectively play a prestige class from level one.

So here's a link (http://hastur.net/wiki/Arcane_Archer_(Apath)) to the write up for the class so you can check it out, if you're interested, combining the magus class with the arcane archer prestige class.

[Azoth]

If you can somehow convince your DM to allow the mage guild rules from Inner Sea Magic, you can make a very sickening Arcane Archer build. Don't count on it though, as not too many DMs do.


Half Elf Brawler1/Weapon Master Fighter4/Transmuter Wizard2/Arcane Archer3/Eldritch Knight10.

The Mage Guild Rules will give you back 3 levels of Wizard Spellcasting, so if you take Prestigious Spellcaster you end up with 19BAB and Wizard 17 casting by level 20.

The build basically takes the traditional "Iron Caster" build and expands it into a full blown Gish.

It also has the ability to gain any three combat feats you need for a fight between Martial Flexibility, Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training, and Paragon Surge. You may (table variance is a thing) even be able to swap the feat from Paragon Surge with the feat Emergency Attunement.

Being a Transmuter Wizard is solely for the goal of getting a pair of Annihilation Spectacles. These 25K beauties allow you to spontaneously swap any prepared Transmutation spell you have prepared with a different one you know.

The end result of the above build is a character that very rarely doesn't have a solution to a problem in one round or less, even if it was a problem that they were not prepared for or expecting that day.

[Kurald Galain]

The build basically takes the traditional "Iron Caster" build and expands it into a full blown Gish.
Why on earth would an actual caster, including a gish, need the iron caster's pseudo-spells?

[Azoth]

Why on earth would an actual caster, including a gish, need the iron caster's pseudo-spells?

It doesn't need the pseudo-spells. The build was designed by expanding upon the Iron Caster's ability to be very flexible by grabbing what it needed in that moment whether it was a feat or utility SLA.

That is why the build can temporarily attain up to three feats, and change out it's prepared spells on the fly. It is meant to be able to competently adapt to changing situations in and out of combat without needing to either have the party wait for it to prepare a previously left open spell slot, or wait until the next day when they prepare new spells.

That is why I did not advise or mention using any of it's abilities to grab Item Mastery for an SLA, but considering Item Mastery can give you an extra casting of Dimension Door or Fly, or even let your Wizard pop off Lesser Restoration or Breath of Life in a pinch, it is not a useless option to have up your sleeve.

[upho]

It doesn't need the pseudo-spells. The build was designed by expanding upon the Iron Caster's ability to be very flexible by grabbing what it needed in that moment whether it was a feat or utility SLA.

That is why the build can temporarily attain up to three feats, and change out it's prepared spells on the fly. It is meant to be able to competently adapt to changing situations in and out of combat without needing to either have the party wait for it to prepare a previously left open spell slot, or wait until the next day when they prepare new spells.From an optimization POV, I have to say I'm also very skeptical about this even when not using these abilities in Iron Caster style for Item Mastery feats. Sure, the ability to add a combat feat during one combat/day, and another one plus a regular feat before combat 1/day can be nice. But the only important question is how nice these benefits are for an AA type of build in comparison to what such a build can gain from spending the same amount of resources on other stuff (mostly class levels in this case). And the truth remains that while an Iron Caster can make for a very good fighter build, it's still a fighter and thus unfortunately still pretty lame in comparison to what many other classes can offer, especially for a primary caster build like an AA.

IME, before high levels more than 90% of a typical PC's uses of martial flexibility (and/or similar) simply add the exact same feats as the previous use did, because feats - especially combat feats - are typically highly build-dependent components. That is, the ability to swap out two or three of these highly build-dependent components before/during one or two combats per day isn't much of an advantage unless perhaps if you also get to change other closely related components (like ability scores, the type of weapon(s) wielded and magic weapon special abilities, and often also things like race and companion/cohort/familiar/eidolon/mount options). So IME these kinds of abilities mostly provide a highly superficial versatility until/unless you get to add entire feat chains at once, and you can do so several times per day with only very minor/unimportant action expenditure. In other words, until these abilities can add chains like the 5+ feats to take you all the way from say Improved Bull Rush to Demonic Slaughter, or from IUS to Crashing Wave Fist, at the cost of a free (or maybe swift) action, these abilities would often be far more valuable if they simply provided say additional boring static fighter bonus feats which can be easily retrained at level-ups.

And for most ranged builds, these abilities unfortunately add significantly less, since ranged builds tend to come with one single ridiculously long branching feat chain pretty much set, and adding other feats instead of more of those planned feats is very rarely going to be a smart move. In addition, a majority of ranged feats are found in the categories labeled "traps" and "awesome/must-have", so who cares about being able to get say Ranged Trip or Shot On the Run when the benefits are so awful using them is virtually never going to help win fights more effectively than simply full attacking for max hp damage as usual? Of course you're going to use martial flex to get Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Clustered Shots, Improved Precise Shot or whichever other "awesome/must-have" ranged feats are next in the chain you're getting permanently ASAP.

One exception to this is Iron Casters, and that's primarily because they don't actually use martial flex to get different feats, but to get different spells.


That is why I did not advise or mention using any of it's abilities to grab Item Mastery for an SLA, but considering Item Mastery can give you an extra casting of Dimension Door or Fly, or even let your Wizard pop off Lesser Restoration or Breath of Life in a pinch, it is not a useless option to have up your sleeve.Most casters will get far more out of getting additional and earlier primary casting progression and/or less feat investments to achieve the maximum progression rate. (Probably also from replacing a fighter level or two with a MoMS monk for carefree Ascetic Style + Versatile Design weapon mod shenanigans.)

@ OP: Are you set on using a bow specifically, or would you be interested in another ranged projectile weapon? Especially the EA magus can be absolutely amazing with firearms, and even a rare few types of crossbow builds(!) can be made much stronger damage dealers than bow builds.

Also, if Path of War (and/or to some extent psionics) are included in your game, there are numerous stronger build combos for a ranged gish than one involving Paizo-only fighter levels or EK or AA PrC levels, such as Hawkguard (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/classes/warder/warder-archetypes/hawkguard/) warder and Bladecaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster/) PrC levels (for example focusing on Tempest Gale (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/tempest-gale-maneuvers/) and/or Solar Wind (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/solar-wind-maneuvers/) maneuvers) on top of magus or wizard levels.

[Firebug]

I think the Arrowsong Minstrel (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Arrowsong%2 0Minstrel) archetype of the Bard class fills a lot of the same feel as an Arcane Archer from level 1, albeit a bit more of a support caster.

You also get Precise Shot for free at level 2 (actually pseudo improved) and you do count your Bard level as your BAB for qualifying for feats and Prestige classes so you could pick up Arcane Archer at level 7 as a 6-list caster. A Bloodrager could also enter at level 7, but only has up to 4th level spells.

You do get Sorcerer/Wizard spells added to your list, and typically you would want to keep them limited to single target touch spells, however if you do take 2 levels of Arcane Archer you can use any of the Evocation spells you added to your list.

[StSword]

Well the floating feats thing the utility really depends on what stuff is available in the campaign.

Combat feats give you access to path of war maneuvers and stances (although a DM would probably require one to ready their maneuvers), spheres of might talents, and the toys from Necromancers' Books of Martial Action, as well as regular combat feats and item mastery feats.

I was just having that very thought about the floating feat Esoteric Knights (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/esoteric-knight/) get.

[upho]

Well the floating feats thing the utility really depends on what stuff is available in the campaign.

Combat feats give you access to path of war maneuvers and stances (although a DM would probably require one to ready their maneuvers),Yes, readying is the issue with using these abilities for Martial Training (and Advanced Study for things other than stances). The Contender brawler (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Contender)'s martial flex is the only such ability which makes adding maneuvers possible in practice. (Paragon surge may at least theoretically work from CL 11+ (and/or extended) in those rare situations when you can actually choose to enter combat just after you've finished readying your newly gained maneuvers.)


spheres of might talents, and the toys from Necromancers' Books of Martial Action, as well as regular combat feats and item mastery feats.I think SoM talents could be one of the very few feat types - along with teamwork feats you can share with others (due to short chains) - which can improve combat versatility so much via a single feat that it may actually be better to get through these abilities than simply getting the "next feat in the chain I've already built for and getting permanently ASAP".


I was just having that very thought about the floating feat Esoteric Knights (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/esoteric-knight/) get.Hmm... Seems better than martial flex in games with suitably powerful combat feats difficult/impossible to make good use of during a duration of minutes (like Martial Training), but otherwise it's probably worse because it only swaps one single feat.

AFAIK, truly powerful "ad-hoc training/retraining" versatility is only granted by ML 13+ psychic reformation (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/p/psychic-reformation/), and unfortunately I'm pretty certain it's also OP in more games than any other psionic power.

[StSword]

Hmm... Seems better than martial flex in games with suitably powerful combat feats difficult/impossible to make good use of during a duration of minutes (like Martial Training), but otherwise it's probably worse because it only swaps one single feat.

Well since it's a gish prestige class I was thinking about combining it with the fighter versatility trick, and wondering the viability of an occultist/fighter/esoteric knight with implement mastery. Esoteric Knight doesn't advance mental focus or weapon training so it's not ideal, but might be worthwhile. Shrugs

But unless the OP plays in a game that has flexible prestige class requirements ala Alternate Paths: Prestige Classes it won't be too useful for an arcane archer character.

Although Little Red Goblin Games really preached to the choir with that book in my case, I've been the "And why would a psionic archer or a shadow archer be the end of the freaking world exactly?" type since dnd 3.0.

So my response to a book that advised "Well if a character doesn't technically qualify but it makes sense storywise, go for it" was "Yes, finally, thank you."