Sorcerers and material spell components.

[Sindal]

Hi all

So I've just been thinking. There was a massive discussion on spell points not long ago and I'm not going into that.

What I wanna know is: how comfortable are people with dropping material costs for spells for sorcerers if it has no cost. (Would still need one for M that have a gold cost)

I'm honestly of two minds and both sides have a logical argument.

On one side, sorcerers are supposed to be made of magic. Wild mages are so magical that it goes haywire and the others have completely affected bodies like dragon scales and being partially made of shadow. They should reasonably be able to become the catalyst instead of needing one.

Obviously this helps them in that technically you can never disarm a sorcerer and take away his notes or his wand. Itd all natual

On the other side,
The argument that material components help the sorcerer channel their energy is also valid. Without the components the magic is too raw and untamed.

This is how it currently is interpreted and there isnt really anything wrong with it.

The only reason I bring it up is because I sont think people really check your components. Most dms assume you have your wand or whatever anyway so in 90% of campaigns this change won't actually matter.

How do people feel about it?

[bendking]

Is there a point to this change mechanically? Because I can't see one. I mean, if you can take away a Sorcerer's Arcane Focus/Materials you can probably just as well restrain him.

[Damon_Tor]

Hi all

So I've just been thinking. There was a massive discussion on spell points not long ago and I'm not going into that.

What I wanna know is: how comfortable are people with dropping material costs for spells for sorcerers if it has no cost. (Would still need one for M that have a gold cost)

I'm honestly of two minds and both sides have a logical argument.

On one side, sorcerers are supposed to be made of magic. Wild mages are so magical that it goes haywire and the others have completely affected bodies like dragon scales and being partially made of shadow. They should reasonably be able to become the catalyst instead of needing one.

Obviously this helps them in that technically you can never disarm a sorcerer and take away his notes or his wand. Itd all natual

On the other side,
The argument that material components help the sorcerer channel their energy is also valid. Without the components the magic is too raw and untamed.

This is how it currently is interpreted and there isnt really anything wrong with it.

The only reason I bring it up is because I sont think people really check your components. Most dms assume you have your wand or whatever anyway so in 90% of campaigns this change won't actually matter.

How do people feel about it?

I've been playing in a game where a sorcerer is using a homebrew origin where their first level ability is to ignore material components. Spells which usually consume expensive components instead eat hit dice: when casting such a spell, the sorcerer rolls her hit dice one at a time, adding her con modifier to the result. The result is multiplied by ten and deducted from the cost of the spell. If she runs out of hit dice before the spell is paid for it eats her current HP instead, paying 10 gold for every hitpoint consumed.

I think it works pretty well.

[Vogie]

In my games, the sorcerer doesn't need a wand - their "Spellcasting focus" feature is replaced with:


Eschew Focus
Unlike other spellcasters, you are not required to use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your sorcerer spells, nor must you use any material components of a value less than 1gp.

So far, it hasn't really changed much of anything.

I posted my revision of the sorcerer HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592791-Sorcerer-Revisited-PEACH).

[Talsin]

Hi all

So I've just been thinking. There was a massive discussion on spell points not long ago and I'm not going into that.

What I wanna know is: how comfortable are people with dropping material costs for spells for sorcerers if it has no cost. (Would still need one for M that have a gold cost)

I'm honestly of two minds and both sides have a logical argument.

On one side, sorcerers are supposed to be made of magic. Wild mages are so magical that it goes haywire and the others have completely affected bodies like dragon scales and being partially made of shadow. They should reasonably be able to become the catalyst instead of needing one.

Obviously this helps them in that technically you can never disarm a sorcerer and take away his notes or his wand. Itd all natual

On the other side,
The argument that material components help the sorcerer channel their energy is also valid. Without the components the magic is too raw and untamed.

This is how it currently is interpreted and there isnt really anything wrong with it.

The only reason I bring it up is because I sont think people really check your components. Most dms assume you have your wand or whatever anyway so in 90% of campaigns this change won't actually matter.

How do people feel about it?

If we map this after the older editions, it would be eschewing components up to 1gp in value would be ignored.
The main mechanical difference I can see with this, is that your sorcerer has their hands free to do other things. Granted, they needed a hand to do somatic components, but it frees up a hand.
I don't see this being particularly game-breaking in any way. By the time you get spells that might be able to abuse this mechanic, it has become beneficial to carry a focus - a magically enhanced one giving bonuses to attack or DC or ignoring cover, specifically. With that interpretation, the Sorc is still able to tap the un-tamed magic within, but later with a focus can channel their energy in a more potent form.

[bendking]

If we map this after the older editions, it would be eschewing components up to 1gp in value would be ignored.
The main mechanical difference I can see with this, is that your sorcerer has their hands free to do other things. Granted, they needed a hand to do somatic components, but it frees up a hand.
I don't see this being particularly game-breaking in any way. By the time you get spells that might be able to abuse this mechanic, it has become beneficial to carry a focus - a magically enhanced one giving bonuses to attack or DC or ignoring cover, specifically. With that interpretation, the Sorc is still able to tap the un-tamed magic within, but later with a focus can channel their energy in a more potent form.

I mean, if anything, it buffs Sorcerer MC's, which don't need buffing.

[Talsin]

I mean, if anything, it buffs Sorcerer MC's, which don't need buffing.

It certainly would benefit them early on, but do you think they would continue to skip over Warcaster? How much of a buff are we talking about? Most of the SorcMC I've seen use a components pouch with an open hand (or using a 2-handed weapon) because they still require somatic components.

[Dr. Cliché]

To me it seems like a nice ribbon for the class.

[Kyutaru]

Part of the reason of having these things is to prevent spellcasting in various ways. Taking away their wand, binding their hands, or gagging them are common ways of disabling casters that D&D adopted in the form of the three components.

Even Harry Potter needs his wand most of the time. It focuses his power and lets him control it. He may call himself a wizard but he doesn't prepare spells in advance.

[Naanomi]

It makes Subtle Spell stronger

You can make a passable Sorcerer spell list that has no spells with any material components... lots of teleportation, psychic damage, some telekinesis

I could see it as a half-feat with some other benefit as well (for any class)

[Damon_Tor]

Part of the reason of having these things is to prevent spellcasting in various ways. Taking away their wand, binding their hands, or gagging them are common ways of disabling casters that D&D adopted in the form of the three components.

Even Harry Potter needs his wand most of the time. It focuses his power and lets him control it. He may call himself a wizard but he doesn't prepare spells in advance.

Wizards in Harry Potter would be called Sorcerers in D&D; yhey're born with their power. Yes, they have to learn to control it, but Sorcerers in D&D start out at level 1 too.

[Tanarii]

Depends how many S&B sorcerers (or MC sorcerers) you think you'll see as a result.