Eldritch Knight Variant Human build advice

[Mwhawk2]

All,

Looking for some suggestions on how to set my abilities and feat choices for a new character. My intent is to make an Eldritch Knight, variant human character. I am hoping to pattern him a bit after the historical knight El CID (sort of). I’d like to give him two rapiers (or longswords) but I’m not sure if choosing the dual wield fighting style is going to be more advantageous than sword and board (with dueling) might be. I intend to take Magic Initiate as my racial feat with booming blade, the light cantrip and Find familiar as my spell. I want this character to be a warrior who apprenticed with an order of monster hunters who taught him to tap into his magic abilities to aid him in battle. I plan to use find familiar a lot as I like the idea of him having an owl companion. I am just unsure of whether to build him dexterity based or strength. My campaign starts next month and I pretty sure we are going with Point buy. I know STR/DEX and INT and CONS are all important, but does anyone have any experience with this subclass or any advice to help me maximize his skills, abilities and RP options? Never played a Fighter or a mage, so I am curious about how this may pan out. Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can drop INT and take spells that doesn't use attacks or saves.
(For example:Shadow blade, Shield, absorb elements)

Booming Blade don't use your int anyway.
I think it is better to take find familiar with ritual caster if you take int.

Dualwielding is not good as sword and board but still playable, do it if you want but know that you will do more with sword and board (if you feel to weak).

If you all play suboptimal you won't even feel it, if you all play highly optimize you may feel it. See what your friends do and choose.

With pointbuy you can choose 3 times 15 and 3 times 8 for you stats so 3 stats is not so bad.

I will take BB with spell sniper for the option of versatility but it means delaying the build(it is not a big difference in my opinion so go either ways).

RP has nothing to do with your class, just don't ask the barbarian mage about his class, you may end up crushed by a big force hand or a hand with big force.


Do you have more information like:
Roll in the party.
Party composition.
Starting level.
Plans for the build at higher levels.
The highest level you will get to.

[Dork_Forge]

All,

Looking for some suggestions on how to set my abilities and feat choices for a new character. My intent is to make an Eldritch Knight, variant human character. I am hoping to pattern him a bit after the historical knight El CID (sort of). I’d like to give him two rapiers (or longswords) but I’m not sure if choosing the dual wield fighting style is going to be more advantageous than sword and board (with dueling) might be. I intend to take Magic Initiate as my racial feat with booming blade, the light cantrip and Find familiar as my spell. I want this character to be a warrior who apprenticed with an order of monster hunters who taught him to tap into his magic abilities to aid him in battle. I plan to use find familiar a lot as I like the idea of him having an owl companion. I am just unsure of whether to build him dexterity based or strength. My campaign starts next month and I pretty sure we are going with Point buy. I know STR/DEX and INT and CONS are all important, but does anyone have any experience with this subclass or any advice to help me maximize his skills, abilities and RP options? Never played a Fighter or a mage, so I am curious about how this may pan out. Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

Just so you're aware Two Weapon Fighting and the melee cantrips don't mix as you need to take the attack action to allow you to make the bonus action attack, sword and board (Dueling) with Booming Blade works great.

When it comes to Str vs Dex I always fall on the Dex side of things (just admitting some bias here) as it meshes with too many things and Str so little. As you're going either TWF or sword and board one of the biggest draws for Str builds (two handed/heavy weapons) is out of the running just leaving Heavy Armor as the reason to pump an otherwise underused stat. At this point it depends on what mental picture you have of this guy, if he's a knight then is full plate essential to your character image? Can that image still be achieved by Half Plate?

My suggestion would break down to point buy stats (after racial bumps) of: 8 16 16 13 10 10, you don't need Str and dumping it won't hurt you realistically if you just have proficieny in Athletics. Go Sword and Board with a rapier (dueling), using your Familiar for both scouting and advantage and Booming Blade until level 5. Levels 5 and 6 switch to regular Extra attack unless you want to lock down a mobile or flighty enemy and switch back to BB when you get War Magic at 7th level. Put your first ASI into Dex and when it comes to the 2nd and 3rd play it by ear, if you're getting hit too much/having to cast Shield too much then take Medium Armour Master at 6th and max Dex at 8th (or reverse that if you find your AC okay for the campaign and your party role).

Something to remember as you are a sinlge classed Fighter and will get access to a lot of ASIs, you can take Ritual Caster to add a little more of a magical theme and utility to your character.

[napoleon_in_rag]

All,

Looking for some suggestions on how to set my abilities and feat choices for a new character. My intent is to make an Eldritch Knight, variant human character. I am hoping to pattern him a bit after the historical knight El CID (sort of). I’d like to give him two rapiers (or longswords) but I’m not sure if choosing the dual wield fighting style is going to be more advantageous than sword and board (with dueling) might be. I intend to take Magic Initiate as my racial feat with booming blade, the light cantrip and Find familiar as my spell. I want this character to be a warrior who apprenticed with an order of monster hunters who taught him to tap into his magic abilities to aid him in battle. I plan to use find familiar a lot as I like the idea of him having an owl companion. I am just unsure of whether to build him dexterity based or strength. My campaign starts next month and I pretty sure we are going with Point buy. I know STR/DEX and INT and CONS are all important, but does anyone have any experience with this subclass or any advice to help me maximize his skills, abilities and RP options? Never played a Fighter or a mage, so I am curious about how this may pan out. Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

If you are playing RAW, you need the Warcaster Feat to cast a spell with a Somatic component with both hands full. So dual wielding or sword and board is out unless you drop a weapon as your free environment interaction and then use your bonus action to regain the weapon if you have weapon bond on it. And if you use bonus action to return the the weapon, you can't use your bonus action to attack when dual wielding.

If I remember correctly, Sage Advice stated that this does not apply to two handed weapons because you need two hands to attack but only one to hold on to the weapon. So I suggest wielding a halberd or glaive and take Polearm Master, this give you Reach, a 1d4 bonus attack, and a reaction attack any time an enemy comes within 10 feet of you.

As an Eldritch Knight, you really don't need to carry a shield in one hand, as long as you save your 1st level slots to cast the shield spell. Sage Advice has stated that you get to see the enemy attack roll before deciding to use your reacting to cast the shield spell.


As far as abilities go, I would Place your highest score in STR/DEX depending on the build, second highest in CON, and third highest in INT. I have a friend who plays an EK with a higher WIS than INT and just chooses spells were the casting stat isn't a factor but I think that limits your spell choices too much.

[Nagog]

If you are playing RAW, you need the Warcaster Feat to cast a spell with a Somatic component with both hands full. So dual wielding or sword and board is out unless you drop a weapon as your free environment interaction and then use your bonus action to regain the weapon if you have weapon bond on it. And if you use bonus action to return the the weapon, you can't use your bonus action to attack when dual wielding.

If I remember correctly, Sage Advice stated that this does not apply to two handed weapons because you need two hands to attack but only one to hold on to the weapon. So I suggest wielding a halberd or glaive and take Polearm Master, this give you Reach, a 1d4 bonus attack, and a reaction attack any time an enemy comes within 10 feet of you.

As an Eldritch Knight, you really don't need to carry a shield in one hand, as long as you save your 1st level slots to cast the shield spell. Sage Advice has stated that you get to see the enemy attack roll before deciding to use your reacting to cast the shield spell.


As far as abilities go, I would Place your highest score in STR/DEX depending on the build, second highest in CON, and third highest in INT. I have a friend who plays an EK with a higher WIS than INT and just chooses spells were the casting stat isn't a factor but I think that limits your spell choices too much.

I like the sound of that Polearm Master build. I'd combine it with Sentinel later, as your 10 ft AoO can stop an enemy in their tracks at that range, then you're free to blast them will a spell of your choice without disadvantage or AoO from them.

[Grimmnist]

All,

Looking for some suggestions on how to set my abilities and feat choices for a new character. My intent is to make an Eldritch Knight, variant human character. I am hoping to pattern him a bit after the historical knight El CID (sort of). I’d like to give him two rapiers (or longswords) but I’m not sure if choosing the dual wield fighting style is going to be more advantageous than sword and board (with dueling) might be. I intend to take Magic Initiate as my racial feat with booming blade, the light cantrip and Find familiar as my spell. I want this character to be a warrior who apprenticed with an order of monster hunters who taught him to tap into his magic abilities to aid him in battle. I plan to use find familiar a lot as I like the idea of him having an owl companion. I am just unsure of whether to build him dexterity based or strength. My campaign starts next month and I pretty sure we are going with Point buy. I know STR/DEX and INT and CONS are all important, but does anyone have any experience with this subclass or any advice to help me maximize his skills, abilities and RP options? Never played a Fighter or a mage, so I am curious about how this may pan out. Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

I probably wouldn't take Magic Initiate for your feat since you can get all those spells as soon as you reach level 3, and as an EK there aren't that many spells you want to add to your spell list. If you're planning to wield two rapiers you would need the Dual Wielder feat (otherwise you can only dual wield light weapons like short swords), it is true that attack cantrips like booming blade don't play nice with dual wielding so that might be a reason against using it. IMO the best EK feat is Warcaster, which lets you cast with your hands full, keep your concentration more easily, and lets you cast a cantrip instead of an attack of opportunity (especially nuts with booming blade). Other good options are the classic Pole Arm Master, Great Weapon Master or, Sentinel.

In terms of Str vs Dex both are good so it really depends on your party. If you don't have any other high Strength characters you should fill that role, same for Dex. Strength is generally higher damage and it gives you some cool options like grappling in combat, even though there is only one skill attached to it (Athletics) I think that skill comes up more than any of the Dex skills. Dex gives more ranged options, especially useful since you can switch weapons using either your free action to draw one or your bonus action to summon a bound weapon. Whichever you choose I would start with 16 (15 +1) in Str or Dex, prioritize Con second, and finally Int.

[Mwhawk2]

Ok, thank you all. Working on my backstory and hoping to finalize my build options. so if I go sword and board, The warcaster feat is a must and it sounds like dual wield is not an option (as I’d like to be able to take full advantage of the EK spellcasting options). If I opt for great sword mastery, is warcaster still as important? Also, what am is missing about Magic initiate for this build? It seems like a great option as it gives access to additional cantrips and spells (though I know it doesn’t add to my spell slots). A friend suggested Ritual caster over MI, but I’m not sure why it’s a better option (other than it doesn’t burn additional spell slots?)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Ok, thank you all. Working on my backstory and hoping to finalize my build options. so if I go sword and board, The warcaster feat is a must and it sounds like dual wield is not an option (as I’d like to be able to take full advantage of the EK spellcasting options). If I opt for great sword mastery, is warcaster still as important? Also, what am is missing about Magic initiate for this build? It seems like a great option as it gives access to additional cantrips and spells (though I know it doesn’t add to my spell slots). A friend suggested Ritual caster over MI, but I’m not sure why it’s a better option (other than it doesn’t burn additional spell slots?)

Ritual caster gives you more options.
That is all.

War caster is always nice.
With a 2 handed weapon you wont need it for casting spells with S components as you can always free one hand.

A free hand give you the ability to cast more spells then war caster


A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.

[Mitsu]

I would go with 11 EK/9 Wizard and focus on using Shadow Blade.

I don't have build break down but I you can write PM to @LudicSavant as he was once explaining that build in detail.

[Reevh]

I would go with 11 EK/9 Wizard and focus on using Shadow Blade.

I don't have build break down but I you can write PM to @LudicSavant as he was once explaining that build in detail.

Seems like you'd be giving up a lot since you won't be able to concentrate on any of the other lovely concentration buffs you might want, such as Blur or Protection from Evil and Good or later Haste. Plus, if you do get hit, there's a reasonable chance you lose your shadow blade. You only get the blade for 1 minute per 2nd level spell slot, and can't benefit from Great Weapon Master. Finally, you give up up to 2 of your extra attacks. What's the benefit?

[Grimmnist]

Also, what am is missing about Magic initiate for this build? It seems like a great option as it gives access to additional cantrips and spells (though I know it doesn’t add to my spell slots). A friend suggested Ritual caster over MI, but I’m not sure why it’s a better option (other than it doesn’t burn additional spell slots?)

It's not that Magic Initiate is bad, it's that other feats are probably better. Feats are hard to get (though fighter does get more than anyone else) so you want your feats to be impactful. This issue with Magic Initiate is that it doesn't give you anything you won't already be able to get, extra spells and Cantrips are nice but as an EK there really aren't that many spells or Cantrips you care about knowing. Basically at level 3 this feat will allow you to have the 3rd and 4th best Cantrips and the 4th best spell (since you get 2 cantrips and 3 spells from EK already).

Ritual Caster is probably a bit better, as you said it doesn't burn the spell slot, you'll probably be burning your slots pretty quick since you only have 2 so being able to resummon your Familiar even when out is pretty good. It also lets you copy some spell scrolls, adding to your spell list over time.

All that being said if you want more Cantrips, more Spells, Ritual Casting, and the ability to copy spell scrolls... a single level dip in Wizard will do all of that (plus more spell slots)! Multiclassing is tricky since it slows your progression on your main class, if this is something you want to pursue I'd recommend taking the Wizard level at level 2 (to get more spells as fast as possible) or level 6 (to get extra attack as fast as possible).

[Mitsu]

Seems like you'd be giving up a lot since you won't be able to concentrate on any of the other lovely concentration buffs you might want, such as Blur or Protection from Evil and Good or later Haste. Plus, if you do get hit, there's a reasonable chance you lose your shadow blade. You only get the blade for 1 minute per 2nd level spell slot, and can't benefit from Great Weapon Master. Finally, you give up up to 2 of your extra attacks. What's the benefit?

Fighters have prof in CON saves + you should always take War Caster on EK. Plus you have heavy armor and shield + Shield Spell if needed. Believe me it's really really hard to break conc on lower tiers. On level 7 (when shadow blade comes) this guy would have +3 proficiency, +3 from 16 CON probably and +4 from advantage from war caster. That is +10 to conc, which is auto pass on damage lower than 20. Plus his AC with shield. Enough.

GWM is hardly necessary for EK. Also at higher levels a 4d8 or 5d8 Shadow Blade with all fighter attacks + action surge + AC is a lot.

If I wanted to build GWM Fighter I would go for Battlemaster.

[LudicSavant]

Hm? Someone summoned me? http://i.imgur.com/C5JJfzc.png


can't benefit from Great Weapon Master.


What's the benefit?

A proper Shadow Blade EK build can actually outdamage typical GWM builds, and get to wield a shield (and the Shield spell) while they're at it. It's one of the things that can get up into "kill dragons before they can act" ranges if you know what you're doing. You basically upcast it for a large number of dice per attack, with triple advantage from Elven Accuracy (meaning you almost never miss, and crit nearly 3x as often), and go to town. Great option in any campaign where magic weapons are scarce.

Incidentally, EK 12 / any full caster 8 will have the same spell slots as EK 11 / full caster 9 (but FC9 would let you know actual 5th level spells, instead of just upcasting). Also, you'd get Shadow Blade at level 8, not 7 (because your spell choices are school-restricted except at certain levels).


Plus, if you do get hit, there's a reasonable chance you lose your shadow blade.

First, breaking your Concentration isn't all that easy. Your AC will be exceptionally high, and you'll have Con proficiency and Advantage on Concentration saves from War Caster. If you went War Wizard, you can throw a +4 to any save on top of that too, plus Lucky and Indomitable for a couple more rerolls if you need it. Yes, all those things stack.

Second, you will kill a lot of things before they can hit you anyways, since you will have an extremely high initiative (The EK/GS/DC or EK/WW versions have +13 init or more), high stealth, and high damage. By contrast standard Str-based GWM builds have a tendency to lose surprise and initiative, which basically means they're at -2 turns relative to someone who got those things.

Third, the very worst case scenario is that you can just recast Shadow Blade as a bonus action.


Haste.

It's funny you mention Haste, which carries a far greater risk from broken Concentration than Shadow Blade does. It takes a precious Action to cast, and if you lose it, you lose an entire turn. And then would have to use another entire Action to recast it.


Finally, you give up up to 2 of your extra attacks.

I presume you're talking about the Fighter capstone. This difference will only factor at exactly level 20, and your output will still be competitive with the extra attacks on account of the benefits you got from multiclassing (accelerated casting progression, etc).

[Evaar]

And if the full caster you chose is a Sorcerer, you can quick cast one of the SCAG cantrips and get your 4th melee attack well before you'd get it as a pure fighter - plus the bonus cantrip damage to boot.

[Reevh]

Hm? Someone summoned me? http://i.imgur.com/C5JJfzc.png





A proper Shadow Blade EK build can actually outdamage typical GWM builds, and get to wield a shield (and the Shield spell) while they're at it. It's one of the things that can get up into "kill dragons before they can act" ranges if you know what you're doing. You basically upcast it for a large number of dice per attack, with triple advantage from Elven Accuracy (meaning you almost never miss, and crit nearly 3x as often), and go to town. Great option in any campaign where magic weapons are scarce.

Incidentally, EK 12 / any full caster 8 will have the same spell slots as EK 11 / full caster 9 (but FC9 would let you know actual 5th level spells, instead of just upcasting). Also, you'd get Shadow Blade at level 8, not 7 (because your spell choices are school-restricted except at certain levels).



First, breaking your Concentration isn't all that easy. Your AC will be exceptionally high, and you'll have Con proficiency and Advantage on Concentration saves from War Caster. If you went War Wizard, you can throw a +4 to any save on top of that too, plus Lucky and Indomitable for a couple more rerolls if you need it. Yes, all those things stack.

Second, you will kill a lot of things before they can hit you anyways, since you will have an extremely high initiative (The EK/GS/DC or EK/WW versions have +13 init or more), high stealth, and high damage. By contrast standard Str-based GWM builds have a tendency to lose surprise and initiative, which basically means they're at -2 turns relative to someone who got those things.

Third, the very worst case scenario is that you can just recast Shadow Blade as a bonus action.



It's funny you mention Haste, which carries a far greater risk from broken Concentration than Shadow Blade does. It takes a precious Action to cast, and if you lose it, you lose an entire turn. And then would have to use another entire Action to recast it.



I presume you're talking about the Fighter capstone. This difference will only factor at exactly level 20, and your output will still be competitive with the extra attacks on account of the benefits you got from multiclassing (accelerated casting progression, etc).

OK, I'm generally sold on the idea from an optimization standpoint, and it would be nice to have a bit more in the way of spell slots and spell choice. My DM and the other players at my table would likely view it as powergamey cheese, though. Moreover, I've already started the campaign as a human, so Elven Accuracy is out (and we're playing our campaign without that feat).

I actually did a Shadow Blade build with a 9 Arcane Trickster / 2 Hexblade in a previous campaign and it was very much a case of "go solo that Adult Dracolich at level 11." 29% chance to crit on every attack with a rogue is pretty OP. He also had a shield (because hexblade) and the shield spell, and I'd gotten to 22 DEX with a lucky pull from a deck of many things, and +2 studded leather, so my AC was 22 before the Shield spell. Unfortunately, we stopped playing that campaign after a player meltdown right as my character was coming into his power.