The A-Men Team

[jaappleton]

First, some background:

An animator makes JoCat crested the ‘Crap Guide to D&D’ video series, and in his Cleric video, he stated:

“You can make a party full of purely priests, call it the A-Men, and bust down Tiamat’s door demanding her lunch money.”

Obviously a slight exaggeration.

.....but not entirely a bad idea.

So, to theory craft, between 5 players, all either Clerics or Paladins (GET OUTTA HERE DIVINE SOUL, YOU’RE STILL ARCANE AND YOU DON’T WORSHIP DEITYSAMA) what’s the best party they can come up with?

I’m almost toying with the idea of pure Clerics just spamming Spirit Guardians and taking the Dodge action. :smalltongue:

If interested you can see the video here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y84OYRwzZU8

[BloodSnake'sCha]

There is an argument that Spirit Guardians will not stack as it is the same spell.


From the PHB:

Range
The target of a spell must be within the spell's range. For a spell like magic missile, the target is a creature. For a spell like fireball, the target is the point in space where the ball of fire erupts.

Most spells have ranges expressed in feet. Some spells can target only a creature (including you) that you touch.

Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.

Spells that create cones or lines of effect that originate from you also have a range of self, indicating that the origin point of the spell's effect must be you (see “Areas of Effect” later in the this chapter).

Once a spell is cast, its effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell's description says otherwise.


Areas of Effect


Spells such as burning hands and cone of cold cover an area, allowing them to affect multiple creatures at once.

A spell's description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell's energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.

Spirit Guardians have a range of self so you are the only target but it effect all the creatures in the area(that you didn't choose not to be effected).


Combining Magical Effects
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.

One can say that because you are the only target of the spell it works multiple time.

One can say that because only the most potent effect applied that you get to roll damage multiple time and take the highest and/or that the target throw multiple saves and use the lowest.

One can say that only the highest level Spirit Guardians will work in an overlap.

Because the most recent effect applies you can move each cleric in his turn so the enemies will get out of the spell range and in again so each turn other Spirit Guardians is the most recent.


That is the problem I see.
You need to check the DM's rulling.

[LudicSavant]

Spirit Guardians have a range of self so you are the only target

Worth noting that every creature that makes a saving throw against your Spirit Guardians is also considered a target (which is why you can't share Spirit Guardians to a Find Steed, incidentally).

[Amechra]

Assuming no multiclassing... War / Knowledge / Arcana / Life.

I think the only other class you can really do this with is the Bard. That party would be Swords (or Valor, if you prefer) / Whispers / Lore / Glamour.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Worth noting that every creature that makes a saving throw against your Spirit Guardians is also considered a target (which is why you can't share Spirit Guardians to a Find Steed, incidentally).

If you read it it only says they are effected creatures, not target.
This is a hole in the rules that needs GM rulling.
Fireball for example call them targets, Spirit Guardians don't.

We can argue for ages but we both right and wrong as there is no clear answer.

That is why I showed all the arguments I know about and didn't choose one.

I wanted to show the OP that there is an argument, that is all. What you or I think don't matter as only the DM in his table get to rule.

[LudicSavant]

If you read it it only says they are effected creatures, not target. Those terms are not mutually exclusive.

Per the general spell rules in the PHB, creatures that make saving throws against a spell effect are targets of that spell effect. It's an easy rule to miss, but it's there.


Fireball for example call them targets, Spirit Guardians don't.

Note that Fireball just says "A target takes 8d6 damage." Fireball doesn't say "the creatures making saving throws are targets" because you're supposed to already know that.

If you feel it is ambiguous, you're in luck, because this is something that the devs have commented extensively on throughout 5e's run. The first comment here provides a convenient summary. (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5ozpwj/jeremy_crawford_on_targeting_spells/)

[Chronos]

The movement speed being halved in the area of Spirit Guardians won't stack. But damage always stacks. Nobody would ever claim that you can't be damaged by two Fireballs, because that would be nonsensical. Just like you can be damaged by two Fireballs, you can be damaged by two Spirit Guardians.

And what about zealot barbarians, are they allowed? They definitely worship their gods, and in fact, their fluff is more about god-worship than paladins are.

[RulesJD]

The movement speed being halved in the area of Spirit Guardians won't stack. But damage always stacks. Nobody would ever claim that you can't be damaged by two Fireballs, because that would be nonsensical. Just like you can be damaged by two Fireballs, you can be damaged by two Spirit Guardians.

And what about zealot barbarians, are they allowed? They definitely worship their gods, and in fact, their fluff is more about god-worship than paladins are.

That's where you're wrong bucko. Nope. Only damage from the stronger of the SG fields.



As for my choice:
1. Gotta have Tempest Cleric for those big booms.
2. Life Cleric for the insane healing.
3. Arcana Cleric to pick up some nasty Wizard spells later on.
and finally, the current most powerful Cleric subclass
4. Grave Domain. Because screw you here's Vulnerability to an up-casted Inflict Wounds. GG BBEG.

Swap Arcana Cleric with Trickery Cleric (for PwT + DDoor + Polymorph) if you aren't going to level 17+.

Life Cleric takes Magic Initiate for Goodberries. Grave or Tempest take Magic Initiate for Find Familiar.

[KorvinStarmast]

So, to theory craft, between 5 players, all either Clerics or Paladins {snip shouting at divine souls) what’s the best party they can come up with?

1. Tempest Cleric (I'll suggest dwarf, but it does not matter).
2. Life Cleric (Suggest vHuman, Magic Initiate, Druid with goodberry, guidance, and shillelagh)
3. Arcana Cleric (Any race will do)
4. Trickery Cleric (A race with a dex bonus) go with Criminal background.
5. Paladin, Oath of the Ancients (Half elf or vHuman)

The Paladin novas now and again, and at higher levels provides some protection with save boosts.
You want Paladin to do either Defensive, Duelling, or Protection Fighting style to help clerics keep concentration up. Sword and Board.

Arcana Cleric brings a few Wizard spells to the show.
Trickery Cleric for solving a few of those nagging social problems.
Life Cleric for the boosts to life and the fine goodberry cheese at lower levels. You are never gonna go hungry, ever.
Tempest Cleric: Well, BOOM! It's just fun. And Fog Cloud to cover those "heck, let's back away with no OA" situations.

We get in each fight:

One bless bot
One offensive spell as needed
Two Melee attacker, or toll the dead, or sacred flame or whatever ...
Now and again a Hold Perspm so that others crit the enemy.
Healing word on call as needed.

Whose turn is it to put up Spirit Guardians?
Whose turn is it to use Spiritual Weapon?

Turn Freaking Undead amped up to 11.

And Paladin Nova to taste.

Aaaaaaaaaand, at level 10, Four Divine Intervention chances in those really weird situations where all you can ask as a part is WTF???

[Aaron Underhand]

The one party that doesn't need the Healer feat!

I think the arcana cleric needs ritual caster wizard though, familiar and lth at 5th will justify the feat.

[Talsin]

1: Arcane Frontliner with SCAG cantrips.
2: Forge Frontliner with Weapons.
3: War Frontliner with Weapons.
4: Death caster focus with Toll the Dead
5: Light caster of cantrips & bringer of "Oh Hey, there's my target over there!".

I can't see this ending poorly at all!

[Misterwhisper]

5 Warforged envoy forge clerics.

All will have a shield and a spear.

That is 21 ac at level 1.

23 at level six.

[Chronos]

Quoth RulesJD:

That's where you're wrong bucko. Nope. Only damage from the stronger of the SG fields.
Cool, so if I'm hit by a Fireball once, I never have to worry about fireballs again? It's the same effect, after all.

[RulesJD]

Cool, so if I'm hit by a Fireball once, I never have to worry about fireballs again? It's the same effect, after all.

{Scrubbed}