Spellcasting Houserules

[Baron Corm]

I feel the following houserules make logical sense and make a spellcaster unable to handle certain situations. Like a melee fighter against a flying creature or a rogue against an undead, the main class feature of the spellcaster should simply not work against certain things.

The idea is to nerf spells so that they become more equivalent in power level to something like sneak attack. They are still better than sneak attack, which is why spellcasters still don't get anything like trapfinding or a better base attack bonus.

Interestingly, I find that houserule 4 also helps balance sorcerers out (maybe?), as they can Heighten any spell on the fly if needed.

Please send feedback :smallsmile:

1. Ranged touch attack spells with no saves no longer require a ranged touch attack, but do require a Reflex save.

2. Spells which require a Reflex save have a DC of (10 + spell level + Dexterity modifier). Spells which require Fortitude, Will, or no save keep their DCs.

3. Spells which require Fortitude, Will, or no saving throw can only be used if the target is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC or is willing. This does not apply to spells which require a touch attack.

4. Spell resistance no longer exists. Instead, creatures with spell resistance are immune to spells up to a spell level equal to (their old spell resistance value - 11)/2. They can lower their spell immunity as normal. Creatures specifically named in a given spell have their spell immunity ignored by that spell (e.g. extraplanar creatures and banishment or undead and undeath to death).

[Vaynor]

1. Ranged touch attack spells with no saves no longer require a ranged touch attack, but do require a Reflex save.

2. Spells which require a Reflex save have a DC of (10 + spell level + Dexterity modifier). Spells which require Fortitude, Will, or no save keep their DCs.

3. Spells which require Fortitude, Will, or no saving throw can only be used if the target is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC or is willing. This does not apply to spells which require a melee touch attack.

4. Spell resistance no longer exists. Instead, creatures with spell resistance are immune to spells up to a spell level equal to (their old spell resistance value - 11)/2. They can lower their spell immunity as normal.

1. Dexterity is already factored into the AC for the touch attack, so what is the point of changing it?

2+3. These don't make much sense to me.

4. Make sure to add that the immunity only applies to spells that grant spell resistance normally.

[Tallis]

I think #3 is a bit much. Makes a hold person or similar spell pretty pointless too.
The rest I'm fairly neutral about.

[Hazkali]

I see how they'd make spellcasting more like Sneak Attack, but by the looks of things these are overly so.

(1) Is a legitimate way of toning down ray spells, however in the end I don't think it'll make a vast amount of difference. The reason for this is that most of the "broken" spellcasters such as the Wizard use the poor BAB, and since as Vaynor stated, the Dex of the target is included in its AC, it all becomes a much of a muchness. In fact, it makes ray spells weaker at dealing with high-level challenges.

(2) is an interesting idea, but I'd have to try it out before I could comment more.

(3) is just ridiculous, in my eyes. The archtype of the mage includes, nay, is based around, casting spells in combat! Whilst I vaguely get the reason for Will-saved spells (in that being off your guard will lower your mental as well as physical defences) that could be better served by giving a circumstance penalty on the defending creature's Will Save, as opposed to this rule. As for applying this rule to fortitude saving throws, what's the intention? As written, a character "on alert" could walk straight through Cloudkill unhindered, or take a Lich's Disintegrate spell without batting an eyelid!

(4), if anything, makes the monster too strong. Take a hypothetical creature with spell resistance 21. A 10th level character has a 50% chance of losing a spell (rolling a 1-10 on their caster level check). That is, the character will lose half of all their spells to this creature's resistance, whatever level spells he casts. Therefore, assuming averages, a spellcaster (let's take a Wizard) could cast 2/2/2/1/1/1 spells at that creature. Under your system, the creature is immune to spells of level 5 or below- i.e. ALL of the Caster's spells. Not only is the Caster useless in that encounter (bad for the player), it also means the remaining 3 characters are left to deal with the whole challenge. If you re-evaluated it to (SR-11)/3, that would give immunity to 3rd level spells in this instance, so -/-/-/-/3/2. However this means the Caster would be popping off all of his high-level spells, which again, could be unbalancing, but this time the other way.

[Baron Corm]

(1) Is a legitimate way of toning down ray spells, however in the end I don't think it'll make a vast amount of difference. The reason for this is that most of the "broken" spellcasters such as the Wizard use the poor BAB, and since as Vaynor stated, the Dex of the target is included in its AC, it all becomes a much of a muchness. In fact, it makes ray spells weaker at dealing with high-level challenges.

The point is that a ray spell which offers no save has only a ranged touch attack standing between the creature and its death/uselessness. Taking dragons as our example, they get huge natural armor bonuses, but no matter their HD, their Dexterity remains 10. However, the Reflex saves of creatures increases with HD. This makes a huge difference when using (previously) broken ray spells against powerful creatures; you can't do it in one turn. Neither can any other class.


is just ridiculous, in my eyes. The archtype of the mage includes, nay, is based around, casting spells in combat! Whilst I vaguely get the reason for Will-saved spells (in that being off your guard will lower your mental as well as physical defences) that could be better served by giving a circumstance penalty on the defending creature's Will Save, as opposed to this rule. As for applying this rule to fortitude saving throws, what's the intention? As written, a character "on alert" could walk straight through Cloudkill unhindered, or take a Lich's Disintegrate spell without batting an eyelid!

Disintegrate wouldn't be included in any of the first three rules because it offers a ranged touch attack and a save. I don't think I wrote that down though, heh. Cloudkill doesn't make sense under this system, but it's one of few I believe. Those few spells could have notes saying they can be used as normal.

The idea was that even if you aren't offering a Reflex save or making a touch attack, you still have to aim the spell. Therefore, all of your energy must be concentrated on the spell, and the target has to be practically still for you to hit it.

You can still cast spells in combat, but if it's not a Reflex save spell you have to deny your target its Dex to AC. Rogues deal with it all the time. If you don't like the idea of a sneaky mage, you should definitely have played an evoker instead.


if anything, makes the monster too strong. Take a hypothetical creature with spell resistance 21. A 10th level character has a 50% chance of losing a spell (rolling a 1-10 on their caster level check). That is, the character will lose half of all their spells to this creature's resistance, whatever level spells he casts. Therefore, assuming averages, a spellcaster (let's take a Wizard) could cast 2/2/2/1/1/1 spells at that creature. Under your system, the creature is immune to spells of level 5 or below- i.e. ALL of the Caster's spells. Not only is the Caster useless in that encounter (bad for the player), it also means the remaining 3 characters are left to deal with the whole challenge. If you re-evaluated it to (SR-11)/3, that would give immunity to 3rd level spells in this instance, so -/-/-/-/3/2. However this means the Caster would be popping off all of his high-level spells, which again, could be unbalancing, but this time the other way.

This is how rogues feel against undead. Though, I should have mentioned, spells which target a specific group also ignore their spell resistance. For example, banishment always ignores the spell immunity of extraplanar creatures, and undeath to death always ignores the spell immunity of undead creatures. So the caster could still be useful in the battle if he comes prepared; and if not, spend your time buffing yourself or your party members. You're still useful!

Hopefully this answered everyone else's questions too.