Am I doing this right? Lvl 7 Magus 23d6+2 (46 on a crit)

[Drache64]

Hello everyone, I am playing with Magus build at level 7 with 23,500 gp limit.

Am I doing this right? Lvl 7 Magus 23d6+2 (46 on a crit)

Level 7 Magus
Rapier +2 with Spell Storing and Keen
Traits: Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp
Magus Arcana Empowered Spell
Feat: Intensified Spell

Going all out on a full round attack:
1st Attack:
Base: Rapier 1d6+0 (+2 Enchantment) (-2 Strength Mod)
Spend 1 Arcane Pool point gain +2: 2d6+2 Flaming
Expend Stored Spell from Rapier: Empowered Shocking Grasp (Intensified) +10d6
Use Spell Combat: Empowered Shocking Grasp (Intensified) +10d6
total: 23d6+2 with crit 15-20x2

2nd Attack:
Base: Rapier 1d6+0 (+2 Enchantment) (-2 Strength Mod)
Spent 1 Arcane Pool point gain +2: 2d6+2 Flaming
Total: 3d6+2 with crit 15-20x2

Does this seem correct?

[Crake]

I think you got the empowered part wrong, it's not (1.5*7=10[.5])d6, it's (7d6)*1.5, so your damage should be 3d6+2(rapier plus flaming) + 14d6*1.5

It's worth noting that the spell storing spell won't be multiplied on a crit I don't believe, and neither will the flaming damage, so your crit damage would be 2d6+4 (rapier) +1d6 (Flaming) +7d6*1.5(spell storing) +14d6*1.5 (shocking grasp crit)

[Elkad]

I refer to a CL10 Empowered Fireball as 15d6, even if I don't actually roll it that way. An empowered shocking grasp (non Intensified) is 7.5d6. In his case it's 10.5d6 twice, for 21d6. Because it's easier to ballpark the damage concisely.
Especially when you are stacking a bunch of different damages.

One more thing. Looks like he's using his +2 bonus from Arcane Pool to add Flaming twice. Not sure that's legal. But Flaming+Shocking would be, so same damage (discounting multiple resistances on the target).

Anyway, two 1st level slots to burst 24d6(+22d6 on a 15-20 crit) at the beginning of combat (twice a day) is cool, but it's hardly game-breaking.

[Drache64]

Thanks everyone! So it looks like I'm on the right track as long as I keep in mind fundamentals like spells don't crit (rookie mistake lol I knew that!!)

But you guys are losing me on the empower math.

Only intensified my shocking grasp does 7d6 (CL7),

Then Empowered increases everything by half.
Half of 7 is 3.5 and then you have to round down so 3.

7+3=10d6

But you guys are saying:
Multiply 7 by 1.5 to get 10.5 but you still have to round down so it's 10.

What's the difference?? You both corrected me and so I'm sure I'm missing something obvious and valuable I just don't see it yet.

Are you saying that on a crit I apply empower after the x2 multiplication? 7*2=14*1.5=21 instead of 7*1.5=10.5 round down to 10*2=20. So if I do the order of operations wrong I miss a d6?

(Noteing though spells don't crit here)

[Firebug]

Does this seem correct?TLDR: No.
+4 weapon by level 7? Sure... 32k on a single item when you say the gold limit is 23.5k.
Unless you meant that it starts out at a +1 Spell Storing Keen Rapier(~18k), and you are spending the 1 Arcane Pool on an additional +1 and Flaming and the 2d6+2(which should be 1d6+?* +1d6 fire) is your total damage with the melee attack?
?* Because you state "-2 str mod" so it should be +0 with a +2 weapon.

Anyway, two 1st level slots to burst 24d6(+22d6 on a 15-20 crit) at the beginning of combat (twice a day) is cool, but it's hardly game-breaking. Assuming that the OP has both traits that reduce the metamagic cost on Shocking Grasp, its 2 level 2 slots (empowered +2, intensified +1). If not, level 4 spells which he wouldn't have access to at level 7 and arguably couldn't put into the spell storing.

Assuming your strength really is at 6-7 (hence the -2 mod) it should be:
Swift: Arcane Pool: +1 Flaming
Full Round Action: Declare Spell Combat: Cast Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp
Free Attack from Spell Strike 1d6+0 +1d6 Fire (on critical 2d6+0 +1d6 fire) +7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5)
Free action Spell Storing sword casts* Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp for 7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5, which may not even apply since its not clear if you inherit the triggering attack roll)
*This will get some argument. As written the weapon casts the spell, not the wielder so its unclear if any of the caster's feats/etc apply per the Items as Spells FAQ (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n9y), which could mean that the CL is actually 12, not 7 so 10d6*1.5... but that is also a 4th level spell(since it doesn't get your traits) so can't be put into the weapon. Or even if Intensified/Empowered can even be applied since those are feats. Like I said, lots of argument.
Attack from BAB: 1d6+0 +1d6 Fire (on critical 2d6+0 +1d6 fire), if the Spell Strike missed and this attack hits, move the Shocking Grasp damage here.
All told, assuming you hit both attacks and don't crit: 2d6+0 physical(DR applies twice) +2d6 fire(Resist applies twice) + 14d6*1.5(Resist applies twice) average damage: 87.5
If both crit(and spell storing doesn't inherit the attack roll, but uses your other statistics): 4d6+0 physical(DR applies twice) +2d6 fire(Resist applies twice) + 21d6*1.5(Resist applies twice) average damage: 131.25
For reference "46d6+4" averages 165.


Thanks everyone! So it looks like I'm on the right track as long as I keep in mind fundamentals like spells don't crit (rookie mistake lol I knew that!!)Spells do crit, if they deal damage and have an attack roll. Spell Storing doesn't get an attack roll, so it can't crit.

But you guys are losing me on the empower math. I think the part you are missing is that you roll the damage (+modifiers, see sorcerer bloodlines/medium archmage/etc) first, then multiply it by 50%. So lets say you roll 7d6 and get 26. It was empowered so you increase the final number by 50% so 39. If you had crit, you would have rolled 14d6 and lets say you rolled well and got 60 damage and then empowered brings it to 90. It is only "tricky" when you both Maximize and Empower the same spell. In practice its the same if you have even numbers of dice, but when you have odd numbers (or static damage like sorcerer) it gets messy as you noted. 7d6 empowered using the roll first method averages 36.75, but using the 1.5*# of dice round down (for 10d6) averages 35.

[Drache64]

TLDR: No.
+4 weapon by level 7?

....

Assuming your strength really is at 6-7 (hence the -2 mod) it should be:
Swift: Arcane Pool: +1 Flaming
Full Round Action: Declare Spell Combat: Cast Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp
Free Attack from Spell Strike 1d6+0 +1d6 Fire (on critical 2d6+0 +1d6 fire) +7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5)
Free action Spell Storing sword casts* Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp for 7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5, which may not even apply since its not clear if you inherit the triggering attack roll)

...

Spells do crit, if they deal damage and have an attack roll. Spell Storing doesn't get an attack roll, so it can't crit.

Thank you for the in depth response!

3 things I've picked out above:

1. It's a +2 weapon. At level 5 (this one is 7) the Magus can do the following:
"At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: dancing, flaming, flaming burst, frost, icy burst, keen, shock, shocking burst, speed, or vorpal. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's base price modifier (see the Magic Weapon Special Ability Descriptions). These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added."

So due to lack of sleep last night I just said flaming, it'd be actually flaming + icy or any combination of options for +2 and 2d6 damage. So yes at level 7 a Magus can turn his +2 weapon into a +4 weapon barring I understand the class correctly.

I just didn't want you to think I bought a +4 weapon from the shop.

2. Swift: Arcane Pool: +2 Flaming + icy
Full Round Action: Declare Spell Combat: Cast Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp
Free Attack from Spell Strike 1d6+2 +1d6 Fire +1d6 ice (on critical 2d6+4 +1d6 fire + 1d6 icy) +7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5)
Free action Spell Storing sword casts* Empowered Intensified Shocking Grasp for 7d6*1.5 (on critical 14d6*1.5, which may not even apply since its not clear if you inherit the triggering attack roll)

I edited a few corrections above, but yeah it looks like the biggest difference was my DM/when I DM we double the dice on a crit not the damage, this is probably just one of those house rules that crept in since I started playing until now. Silly me.

3. Thank you for the clarification! I have never seen any rules for the order of operations like that. Where can I reference those??

[StevenC21]

How are you getting Epic feats at level 7?!

[Drache64]

How are you getting Epic feats at level 7?!

Please explain what you mean.

Combat casting is a general feat
Intensified spell is a metamagic feat
Elemental spell is a metamagic feat
Extra arcane pool is a general feat
Magical lineage is a trait

Everything else is a class skill....

So to answer your question: I am not

[Firebug]

Thank you for the in depth response!

3 things I've picked out above:

1. It's a +2 weapon
...
I just didn't want you to think I bought a +4 weapon from the shop.
So your weapon is not Keen or Spell Storing then? Keen doesn't make the weapon +1, it costs a +1. So a +2 Keen Spell Storing is priced as a +4 weapon. The weapon has to be at least a +1 before you can add other special abilities so you must have a minimum of a +1 Keen Spell Storing and using your Arcane Pool to add Flaming and Frost... Not +2 and Flaming and Frost. With Arcane Pool, you can get those special properties (Flaming, Icy) at the cost of +1 each, so you could do +1 Flaming or +0 Flaming & Frost, not +2 Flaming Frost. At level 9 you can add up to +3 of things, but at your current level only +2.
For 2: just to clarify, what is your strength?

3. Thank you for the clarification! I have never seen any rules for the order of operations like that. Where can I reference those??As far as order of operations, I don't remember exactly, but as for the static damage being multiplied I'll refer you to this FAQ (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o71). It explicitly calls out increasing the 2d8 from Cure Moderate and the +1/level portion.

I missed that you said that the Empowered is coming from your Magus Arcana... which is 1/day and doesn't increase the spell level. So... only one of those Shocking Grasps is empowered.
Which feat is epic? Intensified Spell? This is Pathfinder it merely increases the max cap of dice by 5, in 3.5 its epic which basically maximizes and then doubles the spell for the cost of 7 spell levels. Intensify in Pathfinder is more like 1/2 of Enhance Spell (which is also epic 3.5) but at +1 spell level instead of +4.

[StevenC21]

I didn't know this was Pathfinder. You might want to add the proper tag.

Yes, I was referring to Intensify Spell.

[Drache64]

With Arcane Pool, you can get those special properties (Flaming, Icy) at the cost of +1 each, so you could do +1 Flaming or +0 Flaming & Frost, not +2 Flaming Frost. At level 9 you can add up to +3 of things, but at your current level only +2.

Thank you for teaching me, this is an area I have no expertise in, except when I DM and just add weapon properties willy-nilly lol.

So I was paying gold for a Rapier with +2 worth of effects, I could do +1 Spell Storing a total of +2 effects?

So with Arcane Pool my Rapier can be: 1d6-1+1d6 Flaming+1d6 Frost for 3d6 per hit with crit 18-20x2 (No keen) (1 arcane pool point lasts 1 minute)


For 2: just to clarify, what is your strength?
7


I missed that you said that the Empowered is coming from your Magus Arcana... which is 1/day and doesn't increase the spell level. So... only one of those Shocking Grasps is empowered.
If I understand correctly though I can store an empowered spell in the sword then days later when I get into combat I can use empowered in combat then release the empowered spell I stored days ago. Am I correct?

(barring people arguing about whather you can do that or not, I am pretty sure my DM is of the opinion you can do that)

[Drache64]

I didn't know this was Pathfinder. You might want to add the proper tag.

Yes, I was referring to Intensify Spell.

Sorry I didn't know 3.5 had a Magus so I thought it was obvious.

[Firebug]

Thank you for teaching me, this is an area I have no expertise in, except when I DM and just add weapon properties willy-nilly lol.
So I was paying gold for a Rapier with +2 worth of effects, I could do +1 Spell Storing a total of +2 effects?
So with Arcane Pool my Rapier can be: 1d6-1+1d6 Flaming+1d6 Frost for 3d6 per hit with crit 18-20x2 (No keen) (1 arcane pool point lasts 1 minute)Yes, though its 3d6-1 (of various damage types)
If I understand correctly though I can store an empowered spell in the sword then days later when I get into combat I can use empowered in combat then release the empowered spell I stored days ago. Am I correct?
(barring people arguing about whather you can do that or not, I am pretty sure my DM is of the opinion you can do that)Yes, if your GM allows you to store it you could make use of it in a burst.
I was asking about the Strength because of the static damage, but I think we resolved that as a misunderstanding about how weapons are priced.