Getting Summoning Spells for a Sorcerer?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was just wondering if there way anyway to add some summoning spells to the Sorcerer list? I was reading over a Shepherd druid guide, and I was wondering if this was possible as that would be kind of awesome :).

All I can see in my limited search, is the Ravnica guide backgrounds provide some of these spells. I included them below with a rating system of 1 to 3.

1) The Gruul background adds Conjure Animals.
2) The Izzet background adds both Conjure Minor Elementals & Conjure Elemental.
3) The Selesnya Background Conjure Minor Elementals, Animal Friendship, & Awaken (not exactly a summon but close to it...)

[Corran]

Divine soul so that you can pick summoning spells from the cleric's list. Animate objects is a sorcerer spell already. Finger of death could act kind like a summoning spell if you combine it with downtime. Wish at late game.

[Citadel97501]

Divine soul so that you can pick summoning spells from the cleric's list. Animate objects is a sorcerer spell already. Finger of death could act kind like a summoning spell if you combine it with downtime. Wish at late game.

Interesting ideas, although I don't see much for summoning in the Cleric list besides the Planar Binding and Gate. Animate Object is pretty solid though although being a 5th level spell it hurts a bit.

[Nhorianscum]

Hello all, I was just wondering if there way anyway to add some summoning spells to the Sorcerer list? I was reading over a Shepherd druid guide, and I was wondering if this was possible as that would be kind of awesome :).

All I can see in my limited search, is the Ravnica guide backgrounds provide some of these spells. I included them below with a rating system of 1 to 3.

1) The Gruul background adds Conjure Animals.
2) The Izzet background adds both Conjure Minor Elementals & Conjure Elemental.
3) The Selesnya Background Conjure Minor Elementals, Animal Friendship, & Awaken (not exactly a summon but close to it...)

Guildpact: Slesnya or Izzet.

Done.

Alternately DS can planar bind all the things which is sorta crazy in tier 3.

[Corran]

Interesting ideas, although I don't see much for summoning in the Cleric list besides the Planar Binding and Gate. Animate Object is pretty solid though although being a 5th level spell it hurts a bit.
There's also planar ally (6) and conjure celestial (7) (btw notice that planar binding does not actually summon anything, so you will have to wait for some levels before you can combine it with a summoning spell; or you can combine it with a summoning spell an ally is casting). Though you get them late enough for what you seem to want. Animate dead (3) is the earliest you get.

Infestation (0) could be considered as summoning of sorts I guess. I mean, it's summoning actually, though I wouldn't be sure if that's what you've got in mind.

[Vogie]

Dust Devil is a level 2 pseudo-summon from Elemental Evil Supplement that sorcerers share with druids. It acts similar to a Spiritual Weapon (or Artificer minion), directed by your bonus actions, while also potentially creating obscurement depending on the terrain.

[Teaguethebean]

Dust Devil is a level 2 pseudo-summon from Elemental Evil Supplement that sorcerers share with druids. It acts similar to a Spiritual Weapon (or Artificer minion), directed by your bonus actions, while also potentially creating obscurement depending on the terrain.

Except dustdevil is just terrible don't take it on any character

[8wGremlin]

Except dustdevil is just terrible don't take it on any character
Care to explain your opinion?

[RulesJD]

Care to explain your opinion?

I mean generally because Flaming Sphere is a spell that exists. For what it does (some small damage + obscuring), it doesn't do it nearly as well as other spells that use concentration. It's also Str save based which most enemies will at least be somewhat descent at.

[8wGremlin]

I mean generally because Flaming Sphere is a spell that exists. For what it does (some small damage + obscuring), it doesn't do it nearly as well as other spells that use concentration. It's also Str save based which most enemies will at least be somewhat descent at.
Thanks you.

You don’t think the heavy obscurity makes it a better control spell, that also does damage success or fail?

[Nagog]

I hadn't thought about it before, but it kinda makes sense that Sorcerers don't get summon spells naturally due to their proficiency in Con saves. Depending on how badly you want them, you may want to multiclass for it, or find a homebrew Conjuration-based bloodline that your DM will need to approve.

[RulesJD]

Thanks you.

You don’t think the heavy obscurity makes it a better control spell, that also does damage success or fail?

Better than Flaming Sphere's pseudo control via movement or damage? Technically yes but not nearly enough to justify it. If I'm going for heavy obscurity, I'll just use Fog Cloud/Darkness.

[Vogie]

Better than Flaming Sphere's pseudo control via movement or damage? Technically yes but not nearly enough to justify it. If I'm going for heavy obscurity, I'll just use Fog Cloud/Darkness.

Well, you can't. Both Fog Cloud/Darkness AND Flaming Sphere use concentration, so you'd have to pick which you want.

If you want both (without being a Warlock), you're left with... Dust Devil. You've pretty much cemented that if anyone ever needs AOE Obscurity WHILE ALSO needing a damage spell with a single slot, use Dust Devil. It'll do slightly less damage (1d8 vs 2d6, with half damage on save) until higher levels, as they both scale by a single damage die per spell level. They both have equally bad damage types (bludgeoning & fire), and have interesting effects (10 ft push vs illumination/ignition).

Dust Devil also has half the radius of Fog Cloud, which sounds like a downside, but actually makes it better if you're not in a giant field, as you are also blinding the rest of your party when you set it off on a street or dungeon room.

[Segev]

Other than the notion that Sorcerers have a limited repertoir of spells, and thus automatically "specialize" if you focus on learning spells of a particular type, what makes a Sorcerer stand out as a class that could do cool things with summoning?

If anything, I'd look more to the Bard for the "limited spells, so anything they know is a focus" purpose, and use the bard's buffing prowess on the conjured minions.

[RulesJD]

Well, you can't. Both Fog Cloud/Darkness AND Flaming Sphere use concentration, so you'd have to pick which you want.

If you want both (without being a Warlock), you're left with... Dust Devil. You've pretty much cemented that if anyone ever needs AOE Obscurity WHILE ALSO needing a damage spell with a single slot, use Dust Devil. It'll do slightly less damage (1d8 vs 2d6, with half damage on save) until higher levels, as they both scale by a single damage die per spell level. They both have equally bad damage types (bludgeoning & fire), and have interesting effects (10 ft push vs illumination/ignition).

Dust Devil also has half the radius of Fog Cloud, which sounds like a downside, but actually makes it better if you're not in a giant field, as you are also blinding the rest of your party when you set it off on a street or dungeon room.

Except no. Literally no scenario in all my gaming in 5e has that come up. You either want one or the other, not both. Yes Dust Devil does both, but only sort of and in a significantly worse way.

Damage: FS wins by a metric mile. You can't bash DD into a creature, you can with FS. Immediately that is putting it above.

Obscurity: DD needs very specific circumstances to even get the obscurity, and even then it barely lasts for a round. I can't imagine the scenario where I would take that over FC/Darkness.


Yes some spells are useless because another spell does the same thing + more. DD is not one of those spells. It is significantly worse at both things it does, to the point where I would simply take one of the better options (Damage or Obscurity) and then find a different way to do the other.

[Teaguethebean]

Also dust devil damages enemies at the end of their turns and in my experience a monster doesn't like staying next to a circle of ouch.

[InspectorG]

I mean generally because Flaming Sphere is a spell that exists. For what it does (some small damage + obscuring), it doesn't do it nearly as well as other spells that use concentration. It's also Str save based which most enemies will at least be somewhat descent at.

At lower levels, or vs Minions, DD offers some nice control.

It can occupy a caster or archer further down the field. Gaines value if you pair it with Ray of Frost.
Said Caster or Archer is behind cover, shove them out to the open.

If your melee has a formation set up you can use DD to juke enemies around into Reach, or possible remove Reach so an ally can move without suffering an AoO.
Also gains value if your beatstick is using Booming Blade, not via the forced movement, but adding opportunity cost to movement/positioning.

Use it for your own cover(carry a pouch of dust). FS doesnt exactly state it provides heavy obscurity, though it provides light, which has value illuminating opponents in the dark, but loses value if near you in the dark if you want the cover of darkness.

Plus, the damage from DD is small and the DM may underestimate how it can add some clean-up for the beatsticks.

Plus, it can have some out of combat utility.


So, DD is not a great spell, but its not terrible. Plus, Sorcerers cant get FS normally.

And, im not sure, but i think DD can be twinned.

[Citadel97501]

Thank you, I missed Dust Devil that spell is actually pretty good especially if you don't think of it in a vacuum. For example, Sorcerer & Druid tag teaming with Dust Devil + Spike Growth sounds kind of great, 1) you can't see 2) Difficult Terrain, 3) You get pushed around inside it 4) and you take rather heavy damage every turn. It should also be really nasty to flyers, as it should definitely be difficult terrain for them due to the wind.

Although the strength save does suck...but then again fire immunity is relatively common which knocks the Flaming Sphere down heavily.

[Teaguethebean]

Actually though with storm sorcerer will give you conjure elemental but only air elementals. Though Air elemental and Invisible stalker are the two best.