[3.5] Beguiler Dream Master

[Thurbane]

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593360) got me thinking of a character concept I've had on the back-burner (PC or NPC): Grey Elf Beguiler, who focuses on dream-related magic. Most likely with a dip into Mind Bender.

Feats: Aereni Focus (to get Lucid Dreaming as a class skill); Dreamtelling/Oneiromancy/Improved Oneiromancy feats (HoH)...

I know this would probably be easier to pull off with a Wizard, but I really like the casting mechanics, versatility and feel of Beguiler.

Any other advice?

Any thematic spells I could pick up with Advanced Learning?

Cheers - T

[Zaq]

Maybe look into the “dreamtouched” feats in Secrets of Sarlona? They’re rarely optimal, but they’re often interesting. As a full caster, though, you can afford to sacrifice a bit of power if you choose.

Gray elf is a weird choice for me since elves don’t sleep. YMMV.

Isn’t there a Dream domain you could snag? I forget if it’s good in any way, but I do think it exists.

[Vizzerdrix]

Make it a beguiler beguiler. Sneak into yer victims room as a stuffed animal. No one expects Mr. Snuggles!

[The Viscount]

You could probably do enough research with Lucid Dreaming to zap people with Nightmare.

Dream Casting is super weird, but very on brand.

[Kalkra]

Cerebrosis from Dragon #330 has some thematically similar stuff, nightmares and whatnot, although it's really more about the Far Realms than the Plane of Dreams.

[Venger]

Maybe look into the “dreamtouched” feats in Secrets of Sarlona? They’re rarely optimal, but they’re often interesting. As a full caster, though, you can afford to sacrifice a bit of power if you choose.

Gray elf is a weird choice for me since elves don’t sleep. YMMV.

Isn’t there a Dream domain you could snag? I forget if it’s good in any way, but I do think it exists.

it exists (spc)
sleep
augury
deep slumber
phantasmal killer
dream sight
greater scrying
pw stun
weird

bolded are already on list. augury's ok, but you're not gonna cast it every day. phantasmal killer and weird suck. granted power is fear immunity. probably not worth it. if you need any of the other spells, you can always use a runestaff.

[Thurbane]

Thanks for the suggestions so far - plenty of stuff to look into.


Gray elf is a weird choice for me since elves don’t sleep. YMMV.

True: it was mainly for Aereni Focus, which is one of the more painless ways to get Lucid Dreaming as a class skill.

Another option would be to Human and dip into Human Paragon, but that gives up a caster level.

[Venger]

Thanks for the suggestions so far - plenty of stuff to look into.



True: it was mainly for Aereni Focus, which is one of the more painless ways to get Lucid Dreaming as a class skill.

Another option would be to Human and dip into Human Paragon, but that gives up a caster level.

It's either that, factotum, or exemplar, all of which unfortunately lose a cl. HP has the advantage of letting you pick it as your adaptive skill to keep up ranks later on. (or factotum with able learner) How're you getting your grapple mod up to snuff?

[Thurbane]

It's either that, factotum, or exemplar, all of which unfortunately lose a cl. HP has the advantage of letting you pick it as your adaptive skill to keep up ranks later on. (or factotum with able learner) How're you getting your grapple mod up to snuff?

Grapple? I might be missing something significant here - do I need grapple to pull creatures into a dreamscape?

[Venger]

Grapple? I might be missing something significant here - do I need grapple to pull creatures into a dreamscape?

yeah, that's the whole thing:


*You must first successfully grapple your opponent. Then, instead of attempting to pin him or her, make a Lucid Dreaming check (DC 25) on your next action. If you succeed, you and your foe tumble into the Dreamheart.

Factota are good at this due to brains over brawn. I played around with the idea a few vcs ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21681787&postcount=204) you may remember. Feel free to mine it for useful stuf.f

[Miss Disaster]

As primary spellcaster, I recommend you perform your grapple via the Telekinesis spell (Combat Maneuver option).

This way you can more easily buff-up the grapple score via Telekinesis' alternative Grapple modifier. That being (Caster Level + INT Mod).

Granted, Beguiler needs to get it added to her spell list, unlike Wizard ....

[Venger]

As primary spellcaster, I recommend you perform your grapple via the Telekinesis spell (Combat Maneuver option).

This way you can more easily buff-up the grapple score via Telekinesis' alternative Grapple modifier. That being (Caster Level + INT Mod).

Granted, Beguiler needs to get it added to her spell list, unlike Wizard ....

that's what runestaves are for.

[ShurikVch]

Call of Cthulhu have Snare Dreamer spell; in official WotC adaptation, it's Clr 4, Enchantment (Compulsion), Will negates

[Thurbane]

Call of Cthulhu have Snare Dreamer spell; in official WotC adaptation, it's Clr 4, Enchantment (Compulsion), Will negates

Cool - I am a fan of CoC d20. :smallsmile:

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I originally planned to make an illusion based wizard for this prestige class, but I highly recommend the prestige class Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage pg 74-75). It's 5 levels long, and all you really need is the ability to cast 3rd level spells, which the Beguiler gains access to at level 6. Although, the hit die is a d4, I recommend sprinkling a few levels of this prestige class here and there, Deadly nightmare would probably be fun at higher levels, because it is literally a save or die spell. The only downside is the fact that the spell abilities are based off of your charisma, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Elves]

Gray elf is a weird choice for me since elves don’t sleep. YMMV.

Scorns the lesser races who need to sleep and delights in manipulating them through this weakness?

Or for less evil, just the fact that they don't naturally dream could make them better at lucidly manipulating dreams from a distance, and more intrigued by them. Maybe they even envy the subconscious serenade that sleeping races are subject to and see their lucid dream manipulation as an incomplete substitute.

[Particle_Man]

At the very least, seeing others’ dreams could make you able to create realistic illusions of things you have never seen in waking life.

[ShurikVch]

Gray elf is a weird choice for me since elves don’t sleep. YMMV.In that case, Golden Halfling (Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands) may be a better choice: +2 to Int, Wis, Bluff and Sense Motive checks - all for LA +0

[Zaq]

In that case, Golden Halfling (Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands) may be a better choice: +2 to Int, Wis, Bluff and Sense Motive checks - all for LA +0

I have never even heard of this source before. Is it by WotC?

[Venger]

I have never even heard of this source before. Is it by WotC?

it's one of the kalamar books, so no, it's 3rd party.

[ben-zayb]

Not really a spell, but consider the Live my Nightmare spelltouched feat. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm)


Factota are good at this due to brains over brawn. I played around with the idea a few vcs ago (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21681787&postcount=204) you may remember. Feel free to mine it for useful stuf.fSlight tangent: Grapple is neither a Strength check nor a Strength-based siill check, so RAW it doesn't get affected by Brains over Brawn. Though it would be surprising if its technical exclusion is RAI.