permanent lighting?

[Braininthejar2]

A lantern archon has continual flame as an at will sla, (and sla's by nature don't use components.)

Does it mean I could lesser planar bind one, and get 5000gp worth or permanent light sources in 10 minutes?

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Just get a scroll of Call Faithful servants. Have d4 lantern archons as servants for a year.

But planar binding should work as you say, math sounds right, but I'm away from books

[KillianHawkeye]

Pretty much, yeah.

My wizard character has a lantern archon familiar (thanks to the Planar Familiar feat), and he'll probably start using everburning torches to fund his magical research and item crafting if he ever retires from adventuring. :smallamused:

[Andezzar]

Money making schemes are nothing new in D&D. Just look at the price for a 10 ft ladder and 10 ft poles.

[ayvango]

Lantern Archon is on the 4th level summon monster list, so no need for familiar. Just spell is sufficient.

Although I prefer shadow evocation for producing glowing orbs.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I miss-read the title as "permanent lightning" - which sound far more exciting!

[Psyren]

This exploit is well-known.

Not sure where you're getting the cost from - something that can be completely destroyed with a dispel (as opposed to merely suppressed) should arguably cost less.

[Jack_Simth]

Lantern Archon is on the 4th level summon monster list, so no need for familiar. Just spell is sufficient.


Note that the Summoning Subschool (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning) prevents this particular exploit from working:
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells. (Emphasis added)

So when the summoned lantern archon goes back, all those Continual Flame spells end too. You need a calling effect at a minimum.

[Braininthejar2]

Not sure where you're getting the cost from - something that can be completely destroyed with a dispel (as opposed to merely suppressed) should arguably cost less.

the spell has a 50gp gem dust component.

[JNAProductions]

the spell has a 50gp gem dust component.

Not sure why that's relevant...

[Braininthejar2]

Not sure why that's relevant...

Because that's how much it would've costed me if I tried to make the lamps with my own magic.

[Psyren]

Because that's how much it would've costed me if I tried to make the lamps with my own magic.

Make what lamps? What item are you trying to sell, and what is its listed price?

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Make what lamps? What item are you trying to sell, and what is its listed price?

Ever burning torch, believe it's 110gold. He's trying to get a Lantern Archon to use its continual flame SLA to make a ton of them (or everburning something's anyway) without paying 50 gold worth of rubies per casting.

Call faithful servants, create Lantern Archon, and I believe Lesser planar binding get around the summon school "spells cast by summoned creatures" clause.

[Jack_Simth]

Ever burning torch, believe it's 110gold. He's trying to get a Lantern Archon to use its continual flame SLA to make a ton of them (or everburning something's anyway) without paying 50 gold worth of rubies per casting.

Call faithful servants, create Lantern Archon, and I believe Lesser planar binding get around the summon school "spells cast by summoned creatures" clause.

Oh yes. Anything in the Calling school will do, as will burning a feat on Improved Familiar. But that puts the spell level at 5 or higher, or costs something at least a little meaningful (xp, gp, a feat, build choices, whatever).

[Tvtyrant]

A lantern archon has continual flame as an at will sla, (and sla's by nature don't use components.)

Does it mean I could lesser planar bind one, and get 5000gp worth or permanent light sources in 10 minutes?

Yes, you can. I had a character named Larmonious Light who went by Larry Lights and was a wizard who made continual flame items for sale. He specifically made Light Bricks, which could them be incorporated into ceilings and walls as lighting. His tower was entirely constructed of them on the outside so it shone across the landscape.

It is no Wall of Salt abuse, but being doable in E6 made it more fun.

[KillianHawkeye]

Lantern Archon is on the 4th level summon monster list, so no need for familiar. Just spell is sufficient.


Oh yes. Anything in the Calling school will do, as will burning a feat on Improved Familiar. But that puts the spell level at 5 or higher, or costs something at least a little meaningful (xp, gp, a feat, build choices, whatever).

Bros, lantern archon is such a great familiar, tho. Trust me when I say that its ability to create permanent light sources barely makes the list of reasons why it's awesome.

[Jack_Simth]

Bros, lantern archon is such a great familiar, tho. Trust me when I say that its ability to create permanent light sources barely makes the list of reasons why it's awesome.
It's a teleporting messenger, protection from some of the worst mind control, a translator, and a small aid against death, yes.

However: You're narrowing your build options:
You're now playing a glass cannon rather than a healbot, skillmonkey, or meatshield.
In getting Improved Familiar, you (mostly) need to NOT use one of the nice alternative class features available (like Abrupt Jaunt - unless you want to burn another feat on Obtain Familiar, anyway).
You're not getting a Mirror Memphit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits) Familiar instead.
... and so on. You've got a cost, and it's a meaningful one.

[Ellyth]

This works, but there are better money exploits and there are better sources of lighting. 20 gp for a vial of liquid sunlight from Complete Scoundrel is, I believe, the cheapest in the game.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's a teleporting messenger, protection from some of the worst mind control, a translator, and a small aid against death, yes.

However: You're narrowing your build options:
You're now playing a glass cannon rather than a healbot, skillmonkey, or meatshield.
In getting Improved Familiar, you (mostly) need to NOT use one of the nice alternative class features available (like Abrupt Jaunt - unless you want to burn another feat on Obtain Familiar, anyway).
You're not getting a Mirror Memphit (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits) Familiar instead.
... and so on. You've got a cost, and it's a meaningful one.

Neither my wizard nor his familiar are a glass cannon, I can assure you. And I already limited my build options at creation by being an Abjurer, so I already wasn't getting abrupt jaunt. No clue what a mirror mephit even does, since I don't have that book.

Also, you forget that light beams ignore all types of DR a d6 at a time, which isn't huge but it's still a noticeable contribution in a fight.

[Jack_Simth]

Neither my wizard nor his familiar are a glass cannon, I can assure you.
Correct. And the party Cleric isn't just a healbot, and the party rogue isn't just a skillmonkey, and the party fighter isn't just a meatshield. It's just a different way to refer to the classic roles that doesn't use class names.

And I already limited my build options at creation by being an Abjurer, so I already wasn't getting abrupt jaunt.
The specifics don't matter. You are limiting your build options to get it done. That's a very real cost.

No clue what a mirror mephit even does, since I don't have that book.

The gem is that it has Simulacrum as a spell-like ability 1/day.


Also, you forget that light beams ignore all types of DR a d6 at a time, which isn't huge but it's still a noticeable contribution in a fight.It is when the fight is about HP loss, yes.

[KillianHawkeye]

It is when the fight is about HP loss, yes.

In the end, aren't they all?

[Thurbane]

In the end, aren't they all?

Well, some battles are ended with save or lose effects, that don't necessarily involve HP damage...

[Jack_Simth]

In the end, aren't they all?

As Thurbane noted: Nope. Not by a long shot.

Some battles are "delay until help arrives"
Some battles are "get the princess out of here safely"
Some battles are "delay the pesky interlopers until the ritual of ascension is complete"
Some battles end with various disabling spells - Sleep, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Dominate Person, Flesh to Stone, Weird, whatever.

There's a lot of fights that aren't just HP grindfests.

[Andezzar]

As Thurbane noted: Nope. Not by a long shot.

Some battles are "delay until help arrives"
Some battles are "get the princess out of here safely"
Some battles are "delay the pesky interlopers until the ritual of ascension is complete"
Some battles end with various disabling spells - Sleep, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Dominate Person, Flesh to Stone, Weird, whatever.

There's a lot of fights that aren't just HP grindfests.All of those encounters still can be solved by removing enough (i.e. all) HP from the opponents.

[Asmotherion]

I miss-read the title as "permanent lightning" - which sound far more exciting!

Just persist Lightning Ring if that's what you're after.

Money generator tactics are far more exciting on the other hand; WBL is relativelly low when you need to learn all the spells and have a bunch of amazing Magic items available at the same time so any increase to that seems awesome.