Sorcadin in the making

[Dimcair]

Heya folks,

I've been blessed with great rolls on character creation so I decided it is time to give the paladorc or sorcadin a try.

Likely a front liner so min 6 paladin levels.
We start at level one.

The stats I get to assign freely are as follows:

17
15
15
13
12
8

There is two questions where I am undecided what way to go.

1. Dex or Strength
The stats opens up doing sword and board Dex build since I have a 13 I can put towards strength to qualify for multiclass.

2. Either way I believe it is advantagous here to choose variant human and select a +1 to ability X score feat. It evens out the 2 x 15 and brings 17 to 18. Choice of con Dex/Str or charisma....
Or am I being silly?

Can someone talk some sense into this to help me find a way I'm comfortable with?

[JNAProductions]

Oh, I thought you meant Half-Orc Paladin. Not a Sorcadin.

Well, regardless of what you do, HIT PALADIN 6 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The Aura Of Protection... Is good. Is very good.

[paladinn]

Heya folks,

I've been blessed with great rolls on character creation so I decided it is time to give the paladorc or sorcadin a try.

Likely a front liner so min 6 paladin levels.
We start at level one.

The stats I get to assign freely are as follows:

17
15
15
13
12
8

There is two questions where I am undecided what way to go.

1. Dex or Strength
The stats opens up doing sword and board Dex build since I have a 13 I can put towards strength to qualify for multiclass.

2. Either way I believe it is advantagous here to choose variant human and select a +1 to ability X score feat. It evens out the 2 x 15 and brings 17 to 18. Choice of con Dex/Str or charisma....
Or am I being silly?

Can someone talk some sense into this to help me find a way I'm comfortable with?

Definitely go vhuman. That initial feat has so much potential. Go with S&B style. I'd pick Polearm Master and grab a spear.. it's versatile and works with both. And you instantly have 2 attacks.

The 18 should go in Cha.. it's your main stat by far.

Have you considered sorlocadin? One level of Hexblade gets you CHA-Sadness and a really good ranged cantrip (EBlast). One more level powers up the EBlast with your Cha modifier. If you go with the HB dip, you can put the 13 in Str, or one of the 15's for the heaviest armor.

The other 15 should probably be in Con. Either 12 or 13 in Dex and the other in Wis. The 8 is for Int.. it really is your dump stat.

After the warlock dip, or instead of it, go level 2-6 paladin, then get a lot of sorcerer. I personally like Divine Soul, but do what floats your boat.

[BarneyBent]

I’d go Half-Elf (Drow variant)

17 on CHA (+2 to 19).
15 on DEX (+1 to 16)
15 on CON (+1 to 16)
13 on STR
12 on WIS
8 on INT

Go Vengeance Paladin. At level 4, take Elven Accuracy and bump CHA to 20. Between Fairie Fire and Channel Divinity you’ll have plenty advantage to exploit with EA. Take Hexblade 1 at some point for CHA-sadness and Hexblade’s Curse for expanded crit range (combining with EA and smites can lead to insane nova damage).

Once you’re Paladin 6/Hexblade 1, start taking Divine Soul Sorcerer for spell slots and Shield, Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians.

You also have the option of taking Sorcerer at level 1 for CON saves, and Hexblade 2 for Agonizing Blast if you feel you need a good ranged option, and Devil’s Sight for Darkness shenanigans (yet another source of advantage).

[Dimcair]

I’d go Half-Elf (Drow variant)

17 on CHA (+2 to 19).
15 on DEX (+1 to 16)
15 on CON (+1 to 16)
13 on STR
12 on WIS
8 on INT

Go Vengeance Paladin. At level 4, take Elven Accuracy and bump CHA to 20. Between Fairie Fire and Channel Divinity you’ll have plenty advantage to exploit with EE. Take Hexblade 1 at some point for CHA-sadness and Hexblade’s Curse for expanded crit range (combining with EE and smites can lead to insane nova damage).

Once you’re Paladin 6/Hexblade 1, start taking Divine Soul Sorcerer for spell slots and Shield, Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians.

You also have the option of taking Sorcerer at level 1 for CON saves, and Hexblade 2 for Agonizing Blast if you feel you need a good ranged option, and Devil’s Sight for Darkness shenanigans (yet another source of advantage).

I will definitely look into the hexblade dip if I can build it into the story.

The issue I see there is that you are missing the warcaster feat which is basically mandatory for sword and board Dex builds where you want to keep casting, unless I am missing something.
A dex build is somewhat sword and board by default is it not.

[BarneyBent]

I will definitely look into the hexblade dip if I can build it into the story.

The issue I see there is that you are missing the warcaster feat which is basically mandatory for sword and board Dex builds where you want to keep casting, unless I am missing something.
A dex build is somewhat sword and board by default is it not.

Warcaster is definitely something you want, but you can grab it with your second ASI. As a Paladin you can use your shield as a Divine Focus. Throw a Ruby of the War Mage (a Common item) on your sword and that’s Sorcerer and Warlock spells covered. You will still struggle for spells with somatic but not material components, so you may sometimes need to think about dropping the shield if you’re planning on casting them.

But honestly, aside from early combat set up you’ll be using most of your slots on smites anyway. If you need to cast a spell first round, cast it before you draw your sword as a free action.

Alternatively, take Warcaster for your first ASI and EA as your second. You can hold off on 20 CHA for a bit.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Warcaster is definitely something you want, but you can grab it with your second ASI. As a Paladin you can use your shield as a Divine Focus. Throw a Ruby of the War Mage (a Common item) on your sword and that’s Sorcerer and Warlock spells covered. You will still struggle for spells with somatic but not material components, so you may sometimes need to think about dropping the shield if you’re planning on casting them.

But honestly, aside from early combat set up you’ll be using most of your slots on smites anyway. If you need to cast a spell first round, cast it before you draw your sword as a free action.

Alternatively, take Warcaster for your first ASI and EE as your second. You can hold off on 20 CHA for a bit.


Holy Symbol. A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.

Nothing says you can't use your holy symbol to cast spells from other class, only that you have to be a paladin or cleric to use it.


Material (M) (p. 203). The final para-
graph now reads, “A spellcaster must
have a hand free to access a spell’s ma-
terial components—or to hold a spell-
casting focus—but it can be the same
hand that he or she uses to perform
somatic components.”

It looks like the same hand you use your focus with can be used for somatic components. I don't think he need war caster for casting(the AoO and the adv. on concentration is still really nice).
If you have an holy symbol on your shield you use as a focus you can use it for the somatic as well.

Dropping a shield is a problem as it take an action:

Getting Into and Out of Armor
The time it takes to don or doff armor depends on the armor's category.

Don. This is the time it takes to put on armor. You benefit from the armor's AC only if you take the full time to don the suit of armor.

Doff. This is the time it takes to take off armor. If you have help, reduce this time by half.

Category Don Doff
Light Armor 1 minute 1 minute
Medium Armor 5 minutes 1 minute
Heavy Armor 10 minutes 5 minutes
Shield 1 action 1 action

[Dimcair]

Warcaster is definitely something you want, but you can grab it with your second ASI. As a Paladin you can use your shield as a Divine Focus. Throw a Ruby of the War Mage (a Common item) on your sword and that’s Sorcerer and Warlock spells covered. You will still struggle for spells with somatic but not material components, so you may sometimes need to think about dropping the shield if you’re planning on casting them.

But honestly, aside from early combat set up you’ll be using most of your slots on smites anyway. If you need to cast a spell first round, cast it before you draw your sword as a free action.

Alternatively, take Warcaster for your first ASI and EE as your second. You can hold off on 20 CHA for a bit.

First, thanks for your input!

Second, sorry can you unshorten EE?

Third, the second ASI is around level 10 or 11 depending on the dip for hexblade.
That is really late for warcaster to come online. Part of warcaster in my understanding is also the reaction use of booming blade on opportunity attacks.

[BarneyBent]

Nothing says you can't use your holy symbol to cast spells from other class, only that you have to be a paladin or cleric to use it.

From the multiclassing rules:


Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell. Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus.

A tough DM may even make you take two Rubies of the War Mage, one for Sorcerer and one for Warlock, but I don’t think that’s supported by RAW.



It looks like the same hand you use your focus with can be used for somatic components. I don't think he need war caster for casting(the AoO and the adv. on concentration is still really nice).
If you have an holy symbol on your shield you use as a focus you can use it for the somatic as well.

Yep, except that that only works for spells that have both material and somatic components. Spells that are only Somatic, or Verbal and Somatic, don’t use foci and therefore you can’t use the hand holding the shield to cast them.



Dropping a shield is a problem as it take an action:

Damn. Well, sheathing the weapon also works.

[Dimcair]

So yes, before this turns into further off topic discussion, I plan to take warcaster at level 4.

Yes it is workable to sheathe/unsheathe swords as part of movement, worst case scenario you are missing out on an opportunity attack, but there are other goodies in warcaster and at some point you will quicken some spells and attacking in the same round.

But enough of that, back to th drawing board, strength or dex, what race or feat to take first level

[BarneyBent]

So yes, before this turns into further off topic discussion, I plan to take warcaster at level 4.

Yes it is workable to sheathe/unsheathe swords as part of movement, worst case scenario you are missing out on an opportunity attack, but there are other goodies in warcaster and at some point you will quicken some spells and attacking in the same round.

But enough of that, back to th drawing board, strength or dex, what race or feat to take first level

Well you don’t lose much at all taking Warcaster then Elven accuracy, so I’d still go my build but take the ASIs in that order. So Half Elf (Drow) Vengeance Paladin 6/Hexblade 1/Divine Soul X.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I think you should take war caster at 9 and EA at 4.
At level 6 you will have +5 to the save from the aura.

At paladin 4/5 you will probably cast hunters mark/bless at the start of combat and use smites. So no need for War caster.

The biggest problem is that shield is V.S. so you will not be able to use it most of the time. From level 7-8.

I think that the +5 from the aura will carry your concentration at levels 6-9.

EA will give you 20 Cha and super adv.

At level 9 you will have a lot of slots each day so War caster will have more weight in my opinion.

[Dimcair]

I think you should take war caster at 9 and EA at 4.
At level 6 you will have +5 to the save from the aura.

At paladin 4/5 you will probably cast hunters mark/bless at the start of combat and use smites. So no need for War caster.

The biggest problem is that shield is V.S. so you will not be able to use it most of the time. From level 7-8.

I think that the +5 from the aura will carry your concentration at levels 6-9.

EA will give you 20 Cha and super adv.

At level 9 you will have a lot of slots each day so War caster will have more weight in my opinion.

I will explore it!
Still confused about why we are so set for EA.
Becaus half elf boosts our stats the best ?

The alternative is to take human Varian and grab an early fear like athlete or heavy armor master with a strength build etc. Just interior?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I will explore it!
Still confused about why we are so set for EA.
Becaus half elf boosts our stats the best ?

The alternative is to take human Varian and grab an early fear like athlete or heavy armor master with a strength build etc. Just interior?

Because it gives you the ability to roll 3 dices when you have adv. on attacks made with dex, int, wis and cha.

It is amazing with hexblade curse that let you crit at 19 and 20 rolls.

A vengeance paladin channel divinity let him get adv. for a minute on a target(hexblade curse+the mark is awesome) and the half-Drow have the ability to cast fiery fire.

If you crit you get double the dice.

From the PHB:

Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once.

For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue's Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well.

You could use a smites for double the dices.
Lets say you rolled 19 on a Damon with hexblade curse on him.
You burned a level 2 slot for smite.
4d8 bonus for a normal attack, but this is a crit, you roll 8d8 instead only for the smite.


This is the way you make a super nova crit fisher paladin.

I think the best practice is to go sword and board (I always image paladins with a Warhammer but that is just me) and take the defense fighting style, stay alive until you fish a crit and go boom.

For better damage you can go to warlock 3 and use a Greatsword with Great Weapon Fighting.

A human paladin can be also nice. I recommend the redemption paladin if you want something not damage focus.
I just saw in the form a great guide for it, let me look.

Can't find it :(
Soory


Edit:
From my experience going 1 paladin/1 hex/5 paladin then Sorcerer for for sword and board or 1 paladin/1 hex/5 paladin/2 hex/Sorcerer to the end for Greatsword.

Is really nice.

Update on how it go for you and what you choose at the end :)

[Mitsu]

I wouldn't bother dipping Hexblade unless you will see that your game is low-magic-items one. Because there are tons of magic items that can rise Strength, making dipping Hexblade a waste of level. And if you run Sword n Shield- 16+ strength is really more than enough for levels 1-9 and there is no need to sweat that much about getting 18 or 20 fast (talking from experience playing Sorcadin from level 1-19). Plus you have advantage, Bless and probably magic weapon +1/2 at some point.

There few golden rules of making Sorcadin:

1. Variant Human and start with War Caster (if DM allows, most do) or RES (CON) for conc boost for your whole career. War Caster is better, so if you can grab that- do it. Variant Humans is that good because 6/14 build is really really short on ASI. Level 4, then level 10! Vuman makes it possible to get conc boost + 20 CHA on or before (if rolled stats) level 10.
2. Rush 6 levels of Paladin for Aura. Take Vengeance Oath as it has best feature and spells. Spells like Hold Person, Misty Step, Hunter's Mark, Bane will allow you to have more Sorc spells known as those are already covered.
3. Then take 5 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer to rush to 3rd level spells as fast as possible. Once you have Haste, Spirit Guardians + Counter Spell- you are a nightmare on battlefield. Divine Soul is strongest subclass, access to Cleric Spells like Spirit Guardians (super strong on melee Sorcadin), Revivify, Holy Weapon, Greater Restoration etc.) is great. Favoured by Gods is also great feature to have.
4. At this point (6/5) you will already know if you got, can get or probably can't get Strength boosting items like Ogre Gloves, Giant Belts etc. So either dip Hexblade for SAD CHA or don't bother if you at least got Ogre Gloves and stay with Strength.
5. Your ASI priorities are: CHA to 20 as fast as possible. That + RES (CON) or War Caster completes Sorcadin. Then you have a lot of great feats: Inspiring Leader, Shield Master (if RAW), PAM, Mobile, Lucky (very good on characater who already have super strong saves) etc.

And then you have it- smite machine with ridiculous saves, AC, offense, defense, access to Vengeance Oath spells, to Cleric spells, to Sorc spells and to metamagic.

[Dimcair]

I wouldn't bother dipping Hexblade unless you will see that your game is low-magic-items one. Because there are tons of magic items that can rise Strength, making dipping Hexblade a waste of level. And if you run Sword n Shield- 16+ strength is really more than enough for levels 1-9 and there is no need to sweat that much about getting 18 or 20 fast (talking from experience playing Sorcadin from level 1-19). Plus you have advantage, Bless and probably magic weapon +1/2 at some point.

There few golden rules of making Sorcadin:

1. Variant Human and start with War Caster (if DM allows, most do) or RES (CON) for conc boost for your whole career. War Caster is better, so if you can grab that- do it. Variant Humans is that good because 6/14 build is really really short on ASI. Level 4, then level 10! Vuman makes it possible to get conc boost + 20 CHA on or before (if rolled stats) level 10.
2. Rush 6 levels of Paladin for Aura. Take Vengeance Oath as it has best feature and spells. Spells like Hold Person, Misty Step, Hunter's Mark, Bane will allow you to have more Sorc spells known as those are already covered.
3. Then take 5 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer to rush to 3rd level spells as fast as possible. Once you have Haste, Spirit Guardians + Counter Spell- you are a nightmare on battlefield. Divine Soul is strongest subclass, access to Cleric Spells like Spirit Guardians (super strong on melee Sorcadin), Revivify, Holy Weapon, Greater Restoration etc.) is great. Favoured by Gods is also great feature to have.
4. At this point (6/5) you will already know if you got, can get or probably can't get Strength boosting items like Ogre Gloves, Giant Belts etc. So either dip Hexblade for SAD CHA or don't bother if you at least got Ogre Gloves and stay with Strength.
5. Your ASI priorities are: CHA to 20 as fast as possible. That + RES (CON) or War Caster completes Sorcadin. Then you have a lot of great feats: Inspiring Leader, Shield Master (if RAW), PAM, Mobile, Lucky (very good on characater who already have super strong saves) etc.

And then you have it- smite machine with ridiculous saves, AC, offense, defense, access to Vengeance Oath spells, to Cleric spells, to Sorc spells and to metamagic.

I like this a bit better because it is a bit more elegant than cheesing around with 1 lvl dips. Although not opposed per se.

The thing I really dislike is that I will have 1 stat uneven unless I take variant human with a plus one to ability score feat.
I suppose I can hope that I will find a +1 magical item for that stat at some point and just go for 19 Charisma?

I will do some reading today to get a closer idea of what I want, but I think I may stick with strength sword and board as it gives you a better AC.
Dex for me just feels like it will lack a constant 2-3 AC behind unless you use all kinds of resources to buff yourself up. Yes, some extra initiative and dex save is fine but honestly saves will already be great and initiative is nice but i prefer +3 ac.

[Mitsu]

I like this a bit better because it is a bit more elegant than cheesing around with 1 lvl dips. Although not opposed per se.

The thing I really dislike is that I will have 1 stat uneven unless I take variant human with a plus one to ability score feat.
I suppose I can hope that I will find a +1 magical item for that stat at some point and just go for 19 Charisma?

I will do some reading today to get a closer idea of what I want, but I think I may stick with strength sword and board as it gives you a better AC.
Dex for me just feels like it will lack a constant 2-3 AC behind unless you use all kinds of resources to buff yourself up. Yes, some extra initiative and dex save is fine but honestly saves will already be great and initiative is nice but i prefer +3 ac.

So your stats are:

17
15
15
13
12
8

Build 1.

So with Variant Human I would go with:

16 STR (15 +1)
15 CON
18 CHA (17 + 1)
12 DEX
13 WIS
8 INT

Start game with Resilence (CON) to even up CON to 16 (15+1) and get CON save proficiency.

On level 1 you are: 16 STR, 16 CON, 18 CHA. Great stats.

Then on level 4 take +2 CHA for 20 CHA and on level 10 you can go with PAM for example and use Spear/Staff + Shield or for Inspiring Leader or Mobile for hit n run tactics or for Lucky to annoy DM more :) or UA feats if allowed (Sword Master). There are tons of great feats.

This build gets you online faster and allow for more fun with extra feats.


Build 2:

Half-Elf

15 STR
19 CHA (17 +2)
16 CON (15+1)
14 DEX (13+1)

This one REQUIRES Hexblade dip at level 2 to get CHA as your attack stat.

Level 5 (4/1) - Elven Accuracy (+1 CHA) for 20 CHA and triple advantage
Level 11 (6/1/4)- War Caster for conc boost.

This one is more crit fishing than Variant Human, however his concentration boost comes really really late (level 11), requires Hexblade dip for SAD CHA and delaying your Sorc progression by 1 level (and ASI progression).

It's more accurate and have higher crit chance.

I prefer Vumans but Half-Elf with your stat would work at least better than with Point Buy because you can max CHA at level 5.

[Spiritchaser]

You could do an Elven accuracy shadowblade Dex sorcadin with those stats. Half elf is still best, though with those numbers, lots of elves work.

With a Dex sorcadin you can start paladin and take it to six, or take one level of sorcerer for con saves, then paladin 6. After that go sorc.

With a shadow blade build you CAN put off warcaster, since you can drop your blade with relative freedom and if you took sorc 1, you’ll still have decent con saves. This lets you take Elven accuracy at 4 or 5, though you’ll still really want WC eventually. Unfortunately if you start sorc, you may find yourself wishing for res wis (yes even with your aura) around level 10 or so, and put it off again... if you started paladin you’ll definitely want WC at 10.

I’d actually go vengence for the another way to get advantage in bright light, and for sorcerer, I can say that divine soul works well, though shadow or draconic would likely work well too. That said, divine soul is probably a hair more fun from a plot hook point of view so there’s a that... and that little cleric cantrip thaumaturgy is a real hidden prize. Dimming all the lights in a 30’ radius won’t ALWAYS produce “dim light” but that’s the way to bet, and hey, for those fights that you just can’t make things dark enough? Burn your CD. You’ll still have advantage.

You’ll crit a whole lot, and smite on crits. You do a mix of psi and (on smites) radiant, and you still have a shield and good saves, plus good utility.

[Mitsu]

You could do an Elven accuracy shadowblade Dex sorcadin with those stats. Half elf is still best, though with those numbers, lots of elves work.

With a Dex sorcadin you can start paladin and take it to six, or take one level of sorcerer for con saves, then paladin 6. After that go sorc.

With a shadow blade build you CAN put off warcaster, since you can drop your blade with relative freedom and if you took sorc 1, you’ll still have decent con saves. This lets you take Elven accuracy at 4 or 5, though you’ll still really want WC eventually. Unfortunately if you start sorc, you may find yourself wishing for res wis (yes even with your aura) around level 10 or so, and put it off again... if you started paladin you’ll definitely want WC at 10.

I’d actually go vengence for the another way to get advantage in bright light, and for sorcerer, I can say that divine soul works well, though shadow or draconic would likely work well too. That said, divine soul is probably a hair more fun from a plot hook point of view so there’s a that... and that little cleric cantrip thaumaturgy is a real hidden prize. Dimming all the lights in a 30’ radius won’t ALWAYS produce “dim light” but that’s the way to bet, and hey, for those fights that you just can’t make things dark enough? Burn your CD. You’ll still have advantage.

You’ll crit a whole lot, and smite on crits. You do a mix of psi and (on smites) radiant, and you still have a shield and good saves, plus good utility.

Disagree. I would agree on Paladin build with Hexblade dip (or on Padlock), but not on Sorcadin:

1. Elven Accuracy works only advantage. That means that only vs one enemy when he use VoE. That means that half of the time his Elven Accuracy will be laying useless.
2. He gets Shadow Blade on level 9. Till then that EA is mostly unused.
3. He gets slightly more crit chance vs single target but his hit accuracy is only slightly higher than normal advantage.
4. Burning Greater Invisibility or Shadow Blade to use EA means not using: Haste/Twin Haste, Spirit Guardians, Holy Weapon etc. And if you are not using VoE, SB or GI- you basically wasted feat.
5. He delays already HEAVY delayed Sorc progression (6 levels!) by another 1 level. That is one level later for higher tiers, lost of 9th level slot, lost of 1 Sorcery Point (later even points- less quicken BB in single fight)
6. His Concentration Boost feat will hit on level 11. That means till level 11 he has no concentration boost to keep his spells up- he will waste a lot more resources on having his concentration broken vs Variant Human.
7. ASI delayed yet another level.
8. His bonus action will already be cramped as Sorcadin: VoE, Curse, Quicken Spells, Healing Word, Quicken Blade Cantrips, converting slots to sorc points and vice versa, summoning Shadow Blade. That Curse won't see that much action.

Overall, it's also a great build but if you start from Tier 1- it takes tons of time to be online and delay everything even more.

I would definitely go Half-Elf on Padlock, Paladin with Hexblade dip or Hexblade though.

If he would start from like level 8/10 then I would also recommend Half-Elf probably.

[Spiritchaser]

So... having played this through, the build really stats to shine at level 4. Sure you only have a rapier, and you only will have a rapier for some time, but that’s all you’ll really need. VoE is up every second fight, and that is hardly the only way to produce advantage. If you can’t rely on your team? Go with drow variant of half elf.

One major point. This is not a caster. Your magic helps buff your melee power, your casting progression is secondary to that. If you want a caster first? This isn’t it.

Crit Smites won’t be every encounter, because the dice can be obstinate and you do need to save some spell slots, but you have uncommonly good control over where you use them, since you’ll have so many opportunities. Quite apart from that, you just don’t miss much.

Yes the build gets much stronger at 9, but it is hardly weak before then. As for war caster? If you delay it, you WILL have moments when you’ll be picking up your rapier after casting shield.

Yes that sucks.

At least once the DM will have it fall into something horribly disgusting as a warning, then somewhere irretrievable as penance, so carry a spare.

If you can’t be bothered? Take WC at 4 and EA at 10. That would be the sensible thing to do...

But it’s less fun.

Con saves: if you start sorcerer, and with Dex you certainly can, you have that covered. He’ll have + 10 to his con save at level 6 (16 con + proficiency + 18 cha (15 base +2 HE, +1 EA))

If you start paladin, you’ll have decent saves after your aura at 6, and remember with his rolls, and one point from EA in CHA, he’ll have a total of +7 at level 6. That’s better than a typical paladin at 6 and it’s pretty much what res Con gives you. Could it be better? Sure, but it’ll be about the same or one effective point less than what the VH melee clerics with war caster have when they’re running in with spirit guardians... and we all know that works.

Opportunity cost of shadow blade? you’ll probably have it up most encounters. Sure it wont always work but usually it will.

I do not like haste on sorcadins, especially twinned haste, even with good saves. Let the sorcerers do that.

Greater invisibility won’t show up until level 13 or so... Holy weapon comes very late and is generally inferior to shadow blade for melee, though take it anyway if you can fit it because it makes you a pretty nice arcane archer as a Dex pally, with a quickened non-concentration Spell then plink plink. I can’t actually say I’ve done this... yet... that’s going to be level...15?

Spirit Guardians... yeah you have me there. When it’s better, it’s better...

But against only a few opponents it isn’t better, and if you aren’t playing PHB +1, booming shadow blade opportunity attacks are so hard hitting that you can be a better wall with shadow blade than spirit guardians.

[paladinn]

Again, I prefer VHuman because of that initial feat. Paladins are considered feat-starved anyway. And if you're a front-line fighter, Dex is almost going to be a dump-stat (not as much given your stats).

I really like PAM for that first feat. RAW, you can't take Warcaster at 1st level because you are not yet a caster! You do want your 1st level to be paladin for the d10 and heavy armor proficiency. You will likely want to take it (and maybe Resilient-Con) with later ASI's; but straight-up attribute increases are always good too.

I still think it's not good to assume you'll get certain magic items by certain points in your career. DM's are encouraged to do their own thing; and there's nothing that says they Have to give you certain things at certain levels. I'd be very wary. If you get stuff, cool.. if you don't, you have to be prepared.

[Mitsu]

I still think it's not good to assume you'll get certain magic items by certain points in your career. DM's are encouraged to do their own thing; and there's nothing that says they Have to give you certain things at certain levels. I'd be very wary. If you get stuff, cool.. if you don't, you have to be prepared.

That is why he should not dip Hexblade too early. It's easy to see after few session how are magic items in DM setting- are they rare, none? Can you just buy them in magic stores in cities? Does almost every enemy have some magic item?

16 STR is enough to level 9 easy with Sword n Board. if to that point you won't get any STR item (or magic items at all) it's safe to dip Hexblade. There is not much difference between 16 STR and 18 CHA anyway if you are not GWM build.

So yeah, straight 6 palad, then Sorcere and then see if you need to dip Hexblade or not later.

Also remember that enemies AC scales really poorly when it comes to CR. It's not like you will start to fight regular enemies with AC 20+ at some point if DM uses book stats.

[Dimcair]

It seems the consensus is moving away from sword and board and towards skipping warcaster in favor of taking PAM at first level and maybe resilient +1 con at lvl 4 to get that extra con modifier.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Disagree. I would agree on Paladin build with Hexblade dip (or on Padlock), but not on Sorcadin:

1. Elven Accuracy works only advantage. That means that only vs one enemy when he use VoE. That means that half of the time his Elven Accuracy will be laying useless.
2. He gets Shadow Blade on level 9. Till then that EA is mostly unused.
3. He gets slightly more crit chance vs single target but his hit accuracy is only slightly higher than normal advantage.
4. Burning Greater Invisibility or Shadow Blade to use EA means not using: Haste/Twin Haste, Spirit Guardians, Holy Weapon etc. And if you are not using VoE, SB or GI- you basically wasted feat.
5. He delays already HEAVY delayed Sorc progression (6 levels!) by another 1 level. That is one level later for higher tiers, lost of 9th level slot, lost of 1 Sorcery Point (later even points- less quicken BB in single fight)
6. His Concentration Boost feat will hit on level 11. That means till level 11 he has no concentration boost to keep his spells up- he will waste a lot more resources on having his concentration broken vs Variant Human.
7. ASI delayed yet another level.
8. His bonus action will already be cramped as Sorcadin: VoE, Curse, Quicken Spells, Healing Word, Quicken Blade Cantrips, converting slots to sorc points and vice versa, summoning Shadow Blade. That Curse won't see that much action.

Overall, it's also a great build but if you start from Tier 1- it takes tons of time to be online and delay everything even more.

I would definitely go Half-Elf on Padlock, Paladin with Hexblade dip or Hexblade though.

If he would start from like level 8/10 then I would also recommend Half-Elf probably.

I played a sorcadin that started with paladin 1 hex 1 paladin 5 Sorcerer 13
Half elf vanilla (we played with no SotC)
I was a block in the why of the enemies that was able to hyperblast the boss.
You don't need to always use your sort rest
I started at level 1 the only level I felt slow was level 5 where the other martial got extra attack.
It wasn't bad because I had Eldritch Blast to use.

[Mitsu]

It seems the consensus is moving away from sword and board and towards skipping warcaster in favor of taking PAM at first level and maybe resilient +1 con at lvl 4 to get that extra con modifier.

Just remember that PAM is not that good on Sorcadin (especially Vengeance) because main selling point of PAM is bonus action attack, which you will get from Quicken BB later (which also deals more damage). Also as Sorcadin your Bonus Action will be very busy with quicken or VoE, Hunter's Mark or Healing Word. Also as Divine Soul Sorc you get Spiritual Weapon spell which is conc-free bonus action melee attacks that scales also with slots.

Because of possibility of starting with 18 CHA I have to agree at least partially that you can start with PAM, get War Caster at level 4 and +2 CHA at level 10.

So yeah, it's very good feat, just not that good on Sorcadin. Also you close yourself into using two types of weapons: staffs and spears.

If you find magic swords/axes/hammers - shame.

[paladinn]

Just remember that PAM is not that good on Sorcadin (especially Vengeance) because main selling point of PAM is bonus action attack, which you will get from Quicken BB later (which also deals more damage).

The question is, how Much later will Quicken be available? You can still get quicken; but without PAM, you'll be waiting till Pal 5 for an extra attack.

[Mitsu]

The question is, how Much later will Quicken be available? You can still get quicken; but without PAM, you'll be waiting till Pal 5 for an extra attack.

Till you get quicken you also have Hunter's Mark as bonus action. With extra attack on level 5 that is potentially extra 2d6 dmg, average 7 dmg. PAM bonus attack at that point will be 1d4 + 3 or +4, resulting in average 5.5 or 6.5 extra dmg. Sure PAM can smite, but at Tier 1 and Tier 2 your smite resources are very very limited.

On level 9 you get Spiritual Weapon too as Divine Soul. At lowest slot that is 1d8 + 5. From higher slot 2d8 + 5.

I am not saying PAM is bad, PAM is very very good (probably strongest feat behind sharpshooter and crossbow expert) and if you want to take it - do it :). But that also means that any magiccal non-PAM weapon you will find will go to waste (or feat will go to waste) which might be trivial if DM is giving custom weapons or big if he goes with what books give.

Though if you get Staff of Magi - that would be great combo :)

I am just poiting out some things so you can get full picture. But since you will have 18 CHA at start you can go with PAM, War Caster and +2 CHA on level 10. That will be very strong offensive build, so if that is what you want- go for it! :)

[Contrast]

With 4 odd stats I'd be tempted to go non-variant human just for the novelty :smallwink: The 12 even bumps up to a 13 for multiclassing purposes.

[Nagog]

You also have the option of taking Sorcerer at level 1 for CON saves, and Hexblade 2 for Agonizing Blast if you feel you need a good ranged option, and Devil’s Sight for Darkness shenanigans (yet another source of advantage).

The choice here is taking Sorcerer at 1st level for Con saves or to go Paladin first so you don't lose Heavy Armor Prof. Starting Hexblade doesn't really have much to compete.


I will definitely look into the hexblade dip if I can build it into the story.

The issue I see there is that you are missing the warcaster feat which is basically mandatory for sword and board Dex builds where you want to keep casting, unless I am missing something.
A dex build is somewhat sword and board by default is it not.

Dex could also go dualweilding if you want to up your odds of critting for those sweet sweet crit smites.

[BarneyBent]

The choice here is taking Sorcerer at 1st level for Con saves or to go Paladin first so you don't lose Heavy Armor Prof. Starting Hexblade doesn't really have much to compete.

Oh I wasn’t ever suggesting Hexblade at level 1. There’s no benefit there.

If going Dex then you don’t need Heavy Armor so Sorc at first level is pretty good. But STR pretty much has to go Paladin first.

[paladinn]

Oh I wasn’t ever suggesting Hexblade at level 1. There’s no benefit there.

If going Dex then you don’t need Heavy Armor so Sorc at first level is pretty good. But STR pretty much has to go Paladin first.

You need a 13(?) to MC out of paladin. If you Do intend for a hexblade dip, that's almost all the Str you need.

I still have a hard time getting my head around a Dex-based paladin..

[BarneyBent]

You need a 13(?) to MC out of paladin. If you Do intend for a hexblade dip, that's almost all the Str you need.

I still have a hard time getting my head around a Dex-based paladin..

With these stats, you’ve got essentially a free 13 STR so it’s entirely viable.

Heavy Armor translates to a +1 AC eventually (with full plate) and identical AC at early levels provided you’ve got a DEX of at least 14. The benefits of good Dex to initiative and saving throws is at least comparable to an eventual +1 AC, if not better, plus you get CON saves which along with Warcaster at some point will make it very tough for enemies to break your concentration. You’re more likely to take half damage from that big Fireball/Lightning Bolt/other high damage Dex-based AoE the BBEG just dropped, and you make the concentration save with both proficiency and advantage.

DEX also supports Shadow Blade builds though that’s usually instead of a Hexblade dip.

Oh, and you’re better at sneaking. Always good. With these stats it can be a great opportunity to take Medium Armor Master eventually for +1 AC and no disadvantage to Stealth.

[Dimcair]

With these stats, you’ve got essentially a free 13 STR so it’s entirely viable.

Heavy Armor translates to a +1 AC eventually (with full plate) and identical AC at early levels provided you’ve got a DEX of at least 14. The benefits of good Dex to initiative and saving throws is at least comparable to an eventual +1 AC, if not better, plus you get CON saves which along with Warcaster at some point will make it very tough for enemies to break your concentration. You’re more likely to take half damage from that big Fireball/Lightning Bolt/other high damage Dex-based AoE the BBEG just dropped, and you make the concentration save with both proficiency and advantage.

DEX also supports Shadow Blade builds though that’s usually instead of a Hexblade dip.

Oh, and you’re better at sneaking. Always good. With these stats it can be a great opportunity to take Medium Armor Master eventually for +1 AC and no disadvantage to Stealth.

If medium armor master would give me +1 in dex I would do it.
But alas I am still stuck at finding a half feat.
And that half feat only works if human. Since otherswise there is not enough ASIs

[Dimcair]

Actually I reread the EA feat and I think it isn't bad.
Question is only if I take it at 4th or at 10th...

[Spiritchaser]

Actually I reread the EA feat and I think it isn't bad.
Question is only if I take it at 4th or at 10th...

10 is most sensible.

4 is more fun... and it fits the stat distribution here quite well... but it’s only fun provided you can deal with the frustration of not having WC.

[Fryy]

It seems the consensus is moving away from sword and board and towards skipping warcaster in favor of taking PAM at first level and maybe resilient +1 con at lvl 4 to get that extra con modifier.

If I were you, I would stick with sword-and-board since you said you are the front-liner. PAM is a luxury (a nice-to-have but not a must-have). Your Sorcadin damage comes more and more from smites as your Sorcerer levels and spells slots increase.

The +2 AC bonus from holding a shield is big and is potentially bigger as you might get a magic shield later. It makes up for the +1 AC difference between a Str and a Dex build.

War Caster allows casting the Shield spell or Absorb Elements as a reaction even when going sword-and-board. So, you will want it once you have enough Sorcerer spell slots for both smites and Shield/Absorb Elements. So, maybe at Sorcerer level 4.

Here are 2 Dex Sorcadin options and one Hex-Sorcadin option for your consideration.
The advantage of the Hex is that you have your attack stat (Cha) and Aura/Save stat (Cha) already maxed at character level 5 and you don't really need to max Str or Dex. You could max Con instead. It's nice for a one level dip/delay in Sorcadin progression. And, it comes online right away (character level 2 in the build below).
Note on Hexblade/Warlock: RP-wise, there is nothing in the PHB that says the Warlock has any future obligations to his/her patron. It's all in the past if you want it that way. I would tie it in to your Oath in some way.

1 - Human Variant: Pal 6/Sor X
Str 13
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 18 (17+1)
Feats/ASI:
Pal 1: Res (Con)
Pal 4: ASI Cha +2 to 20
Pal 6/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Sor 8: ASI Dex +2 to 18
Pal 6/Sor 12: ASI Dex +2 to 20

2 - Half-Elf: Pal 6/Sor X
Str 13
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 16 (15+1)
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 19 (17+2)
Feats/ASI:
Pal 4: Elven Accuracy Cha +1 to 20
Pal 6/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Sor 8: ASI Dex +2 to 18
Pal 6/Sor 12: ASI Dex +2 to 20

3 - Human Variant: Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor X
Str 15
Dex 14 (13+1)
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 18 (17+1)
Progression:
Pal 1 -> Pal 1/Hex 1 -> Pal 6/Hex 1 -> Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor X
Feats/ASI:
Pal 1: Res (Con) to 16
Pal 4/Hex 1: ASI Cha +2 to 20
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 8: <Your Choice>
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 12: <Your Choice>

[paladinn]

If I were you, I would stick with sword-and-board since you said you are the front-liner. PAM is a luxury (a nice-to-have but not a must-have). Your Sorcadin damage comes more and more from smites as your Sorcerer levels and spells slots increase.

The +2 AC bonus from holding a shield is big and is potentially bigger as you might get a magic shield later. It makes up for the +1 AC difference between a Str and a Dex build.

War Caster allows casting the Shield spell or Absorb Elements as a reaction even when going sword-and-board. So, you will want it once you have enough Sorcerer spell slots for both smites and Shield/Absorb Elements. So, maybe at Sorcerer level 4.

Here are 2 Dex Sorcadin options and one Hex-Sorcadin option for your consideration.
The advantage of the Hex is that you have your attack stat (Cha) and Aura/Save stat (Cha) already maxed at character level 5 and you don't really need to max Str or Dex. You could max Con instead. It's nice for a one level dip/delay in Sorcadin progression. And, it comes online right away (character level 2 in the build below).
Note on Hexblade/Warlock: RP-wise, there is nothing in the PHB that says the Warlock has any future obligations to his/her patron. It's all in the past if you want it that way. I would tie it in to your Oath in some way.

1 - Human Variant: Pal 6/Sor X
Str 13
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 18 (17+1)
Feats/ASI:
Pal 1: Res (Con)
Pal 4: ASI Cha +2 to 20
Pal 6/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Sor 8: ASI Dex +2 to 18
Pal 6/Sor 12: ASI Dex +2 to 20

2 - Half-Elf: Pal 6/Sor X
Str 13
Dex 16 (15+1)
Con 16 (15+1)
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 19 (17+2)
Feats/ASI:
Pal 4: Elven Accuracy Cha +1 to 20
Pal 6/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Sor 8: ASI Dex +2 to 18
Pal 6/Sor 12: ASI Dex +2 to 20

3 - Human Variant: Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor X
Str 15
Dex 14 (13+1)
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 18 (17+1)
Progression:
Pal 1 -> Pal 1/Hex 1 -> Pal 6/Hex 1 -> Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor X
Feats/ASI:
Pal 1: Res (Con) to 16
Pal 4/Hex 1: ASI Cha +2 to 20
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 4: War Caster
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 8: <Your Choice>
Pal 6/Hex 1/Sor 12: <Your Choice>

The thing is, if you go HB1 and get EBlast, you're going to want HB2 to get Agonizing Blast. That is one very sweet ranged attack, and well-worth delaying one more paladin level, IMHO. Ranged attacks are one thing lacking for paladins, and EBlast is better than most low-level sorcerer attacks, which you wouldn't take till after Pal 6 anyway.

[Arial Black]

I would go for a Str-based Vengeance paladin from 1st. I might go single class to level 5 or 6, but I might take one level of Divine Soul sorcerer at level 2 to get a SCAG cantrip.

The aim is to get Extra Attack and use your action to attack twice, and Quicken Spell to cast a spell every round as well! For resource management purposes it is also wise to have something for your bonus action that doesn't cost a spell slot or a sorcery point every round, so spiritual weapon is your friend.

Later, with five levels of Divine Soul, on your turn you will get two attacks as your action each round, use your bonus action each and every round (either using spiritual weapon or Quicken Spell), AND wander around with a 15-foot aura which dissolves enemies but not friends! Spirit guardians FTW! And you even have shield/absorb elements for your reaction, making full use of your action economy.

For race, vHuman, half-elf, or Scourge aasimar from Volo's! Imagine that enemy-dissolving spirit guardians aura supplemented by Radiant Consumption and extra radiant damage on one attack/spell per round!

For fighting style, don't bother with a shield or second weapon, because this messes with casting or forces you to use up a valuable feat. I'd go with a two-hander; greatsword works well with GWF style, but Protection style adds to AC if you're missing that shield. This means you can cast spells without needing Warcaster so you can use that feat to increase stats or Heavy Armour Master (which gives Str +1 anyway), GWM, Inspiring Leader, Elven Accuracy (if half-elf), among others.

Another oft overlooked benefit of not using a shield is action economy; who wants to waste an action in combat just to equip a shield, and who wants to walk around with an equipped shield all day just in case you have to fight for 18 seconds a day?

I am currently playing a half-elven single-class Hexblade at level 4. I plan to get to War 5 and then multiclass into Divine Soul and do the same thing: two attacks + one spell every round while (at War 5/Sor 5) spirit guardians is going.

[Nagog]

With these stats, you’ve got essentially a free 13 STR so it’s entirely viable.

Heavy Armor translates to a +1 AC eventually (with full plate) and identical AC at early levels provided you’ve got a DEX of at least 14. The benefits of good Dex to initiative and saving throws is at least comparable to an eventual +1 AC, if not better, plus you get CON saves which along with Warcaster at some point will make it very tough for enemies to break your concentration. You’re more likely to take half damage from that big Fireball/Lightning Bolt/other high damage Dex-based AoE the BBEG just dropped, and you make the concentration save with both proficiency and advantage.

DEX also supports Shadow Blade builds though that’s usually instead of a Hexblade dip.

Oh, and you’re better at sneaking. Always good. With these stats it can be a great opportunity to take Medium Armor Master eventually for +1 AC and no disadvantage to Stealth.

Depending on the campaign type, you may bet more mileage out of Heavy Armor Master than a better Dex save. While half damage from big spells is highly desirable, 6 levels of Paladin will grant them the Aura of Protection, which will buff all of their saves greatly.

Stealth cannot be helped, but DR 3 to all physical damage is more than enough for a good tradeoff in my opinion. With plenty of unarmored classes being good enough at stealth to fill that role for the party, being better at the role of tanking and damage dealing may be better than being decent at a role already filled in the party.

[BarneyBent]

Depending on the campaign type, you may bet more mileage out of Heavy Armor Master than a better Dex save. While half damage from big spells is highly desirable, 6 levels of Paladin will grant them the Aura of Protection, which will buff all of their saves greatly.

Stealth cannot be helped, but DR 3 to all physical damage is more than enough for a good tradeoff in my opinion. With plenty of unarmored classes being good enough at stealth to fill that role for the party, being better at the role of tanking and damage dealing may be better than being decent at a role already filled in the party.

Heavy Armour Master is most useful early. In the late game, that damage reduction is pretty meh. And there’s only gonna be room to take the feat at level 14 or 15. There’s no point taking HAM at that level, you’d avoid more damage bumping Dex I reckon.

[Nagog]

Heavy Armour Master is most useful early. In the late game, that damage reduction is pretty meh. And there’s only gonna be room to take the feat at level 14 or 15. There’s no point taking HAM at that level, you’d avoid more damage bumping Dex I reckon.

With the majority of campaigns never reaching late game, you'll get mileage out of HAM through the majority of most campaigns. And as stated, Paladin Auras got you covered for pretty much every save. So picking it up early is a great choice, often better than many of the offensive ones mentioned previously.

I find many people on these forums are like the player bases of competitive team games like Overwatch or TF2: Everybody wants to deal the massive damage, to be the hero that kills the dragon, while those who tanked the dragon's attacks or raised the damage dealer from the dead when they ran in and were slaughtered a few times are the ones who actually did the work.

[BarneyBent]

With the majority of campaigns never reaching late game, you'll get mileage out of HAM through the majority of most campaigns. And as stated, Paladin Auras got you covered for pretty much every save. So picking it up early is a great choice, often better than many of the offensive ones mentioned previously.

I find many people on these forums are like the player bases of competitive team games like Overwatch or TF2: Everybody wants to deal the massive damage, to be the hero that kills the dragon, while those who tanked the dragon's attacks or raised the damage dealer from the dead when they ran in and were slaughtered a few times are the ones who actually did the work.

Ok sure, but which are are you gonnna delay, Warcaster or bumping CHA to 20 (feeding those auras).

I like survivability as much as anyone but Paladins are low on ASIs - taking HAM at 4 is cool and all but you’ll probably be regretting it when you’re Tier 3 and your primary ability mod is still 3 (4 in this case due to great rolls).

[Nagog]

Ok sure, but which are are you gonnna delay, Warcaster or bumping CHA to 20 (feeding those auras).

I like survivability as much as anyone but Paladins are low on ASIs - taking HAM at 4 is cool and all but you’ll probably be regretting it when you’re Tier 3 and your primary ability mod is still 3 (4 in this case due to great rolls).

I'd say to use a race that boosts Cha right off the bat. Removes one of the problems right away. Or VHuman to grab one of the feats early on. Tbh I don't entirely feel Warcaster is necessary, as the spell slots would be used for Smiting in combat and Utility out of combat, where you don't need to be holding your sword/shield. And if your DM insists that you need Warcaster to Smite, they're an idiot and probably shouldn't be DMing.

[Fryy]

Oh I wasn’t ever suggesting Hexblade at level 1. There’s no benefit there.

If going Dex then you don’t need Heavy Armor so Sorc at first level is pretty good. But STR pretty much has to go Paladin first.

I think Sorcerers get no armor proficiencies at all... not light or medium either. So Paladin at first level is sort of necessary for a Dex build, too.

[Fryy]

I'd say to use a race that boosts Cha right off the bat. Removes one of the problems right away. Or VHuman to grab one of the feats early on. Tbh I don't entirely feel Warcaster is necessary, as the spell slots would be used for Smiting in combat and Utility out of combat, where you don't need to be holding your sword/shield. And if your DM insists that you need Warcaster to Smite, they're an idiot and probably shouldn't be DMing.

You would need War Caster if you go sword and board and still want to cast some of the useful Sorcerer spells... like Shield or Absorb Elements. Sometimes it makes sense to cast Sorcerer spells in combat.

[Dimcair]

Thanks for everyone's input, it helped me make my initial decision.
If you are curious what I ended up with (or what new problem) see http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594413-Sorcadin-or-Paldock&p=24067833#post24067833


/thread

[g0nzo]

Hi guys, it sounds like you have been discussing pretty damn near the choice I am tossing up with my PC!

I am playing through Storm King's Thunder and I'd like to play a half elf paladin. I'd like to multiclass to sorcadin after lvl 6. There is scope for the campaign to go higher than lvl 10, which is where SKT will probably cap out.

We rolled for stats (in person) and I was stupidly lucky, rolling 16, 15, 15, 14, 14, 14. Yes I'm serious. I'd like to fill the role of a tank that also dishes massive nova damage when needed - we have a sorcerer, druid, artificer, cleric and an eldritch knight so they tell me they have buff/debuff/controll covered.

Currently considering the following options:

1) Oath of vengence, divine sorc. 16 14 16 14 14 18 at lvl 1 after Half elf. Sword and board build, war caster at lvl 4.

2) Oath of vengence, divine sorc. 15, 15, 16 14 14 18 at lvl 1 after half elf. Sword and board, crucially, ELVEN ACCURACY at lvl 4, raising dex to 16. The thinking here is that the character would be tanky due to plate armour and the aura, but would also be able to melt the face off one creature once per short rest with VOE elven accuracy smite.

So basically the same "elven accuracy at lvl 4 then war caster at lvl 10 or visa versa" dilemmna that you guys have been discussing, except I could not up CHA to 20 at lvl 4.

What do you all think? Could I get away without war caster until lvl 10 in build 2)? Does 2) defeat the purpose of sorcadin due to not being able to do sheild etc? My thinking is that I would not have sorcerer spells till lvl 7 anyway so would only have to wait 7-10 before getting war caster, and could simply "make do" with plate armor and risking losing concentration on bless etc. I could just use bless and sheild of faith for concentration, and focus on melting the face off whatever biggest opponent I met between each short rest using VOE.

Any thoughts appreciated!