What Happens When You Have Every Feat?

[THEChanger]

I'm running a crazy bonkers Epic Level game on another site, and I'm plotting out a potential final encounter. Due to Shenanigans(TM), this final encounter has access to an arbitrarily large number of Feat slots - 500,000 is a conservative estimate.

So, at Level 40 and more Feat slots than I have ability to track...what can this thing do?

Spheres are in game, so Magical Training (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/general-feats#toc8) and Extra Combat Talent (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/practitioner-feats#toc9) are available. Path of War, so Martial Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/martial-training-i-combat). Psionics, so Unlocked Talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/unlocked-talent) and Access Psionic Talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/access-psionic-talent/). Akasha, so Shape Veil (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-feats#toc36) and the Access Chakra Slot (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-feats#toc2) line. Pact Magic, so Amateur Pactmaker (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/pact-magic-feats#toc36).

[The Glyphstone]

Looks like you're taking an arbitrarily large number of Extra Bombs/Channeling/Ki/Performance/Rage/etc. feats...

[upho]

So, at Level 40Using which house rules? And much more importantly, in which class(es)?


and more Feat slots than I have ability to track...what can this thing do?Well, if we start by looking at the "dabble"-feats which grant you some access to subsystems otherwise locked behind class levels, or which strengthen/widen the benefits of such subsystems, there are quite major differences in power between them. Looking at those you and The Glyphstone mentioned, without actual levels in any related classes:

Magical Training (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/general-feats#toc8) is limited to CL 1 and can only be taken once. Probably not particularly game-changing at 40th...
Extra Combat Talent (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/practitioner-feats#toc9) is useless without access to a combat sphere. EDIT: is actually pretty awesome /EDIT
Martial Training (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/path-of-war/feats/martial-training-i-combat) are some of the most powerful dabble-feats, but they still only grant a few maneuvers up to 6th level in one single discipline at 13th level (you can't take several instances of Martial Training), and the worst recovery mechanic in the game.
Unlocked Talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/unlocked-talent) only grants you a single 1st level power limited to ML 1, and it can only be taken once.
Access Psionic Talent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/access-psionic-talent/) can grant you every talent in the game. That is, you get access to a ton of various benefits too tiny to really matter.
Shape Veil (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-feats#toc36) + Access Chakra Slot (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/akashic-feats#toc2) are probably the least restricted of the dabbler feats since they can be taken multiple times, and the veils will grant you most of the benefits an actual veilweaver class gains from those veils. Although your number of max veils shaped is limited to 9 at 40th level (max 1 instance of Expanded Veilweaving per 5 levels), so you won't be able to fill all available slots.
Amateur Pactmaker (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/pact-magic-feats#toc36) is limited to a 1st level spirit with a likely weak save DC unless you're Cha-based, so at least it doesn't appear powerful to me, but I don't know nearly enough about pactmaking to say)
Extra Bombs/Channeling/Ki/Performance/Rage/etc. are all useless without the actual class features they boost.


In short, with the exception of the SoM, Akashic and PoW feats, without related class levels none of the abilities granted by the above feats are likely to worth their action costs in combat in higher levels (even less so past 20th). Plenty of other class-/subsystem-related feats may be very powerful though, so from a pure optimization perspective, looking at the above you should of course not spend class levels on Akashic or PoW, since you can get quite a bit from those subsystems via feats.

Or IOW, to find out what you can do, you need to specify classes and an ability score distribution first. Tons of feats are potentially either useless or extremely powerful depending on the basic build. Especially if you actually intend to play this monstrosity as an opposing NPC in a real game, I'd really only focus on the most powerful stuff feats can enable and forget about the 95%+ feats which are either useless or simply grant too little benefit to matter or be worth actions in combat.

[THEChanger]

Rules for Epic Advancement that we are using. (https://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf)

Gestalt, Mythic Rank 10. Half the Gestalt is this (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/slaad-lord-of-the-insane-tohc/). I have not settled on what the other half of the Gestalt is yet - it's probably going to be a melee fighter focusing on those Slam attacks. I wanted to take a look at what access to every Feat would give, so as not to use Levels getting abilities that would overlap. So, y'know, obviously not Fighter levels for the other half of the Gestalt.

[RNightstalker]

There are a bunch of feats that are limited in their selection due to race, heritage, 1st level, etc. If you can figure out some shenanigans around that, more power to you.

But that being said, if you have every feat available, due to the power and levels required, you snap your fingers and say "I. Am. Iron Man."

[Seerow]

Extra Combat Talent is useless without access to a combat sphere.

Reread the feat. It grants a sphere OR talent from a sphere you already possess.

A character with a few hundred bonus feats could easily snap up every combat sphere printed

I think there's something similar that increases the cl for spheres of power, but I'm not as familiar with it and not in a place where I can dig into it more.

[upho]

Rules for Epic Advancement that we are using. (https://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf)

Gestalt, Mythic Rank 10. Half the Gestalt is this (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/slaad-lord-of-the-insane-tohc/). I have not settled on what the other half of the Gestalt is yet - it's probably going to be a melee fighter focusing on those Slam attacks. I wanted to take a look at what access to every Feat would give, so as not to use Levels getting abilities that would overlap. So, y'know, obviously not Fighter levels for the other half of the Gestalt.OK. Well, that slaad bad-boy would probably become an absolute melee nightmare by gestalting it with for example:

1 level of MoMS monk (for simultaneous use of say Black Seraph Annihilation and Cloak and Dagger Subterfuge)
2 levels of Ragechemist Vivisectionist alchemist (for use of Extra Discovery feat, notably two vestigial arms for magic item and gauntlet use in natural form)
1 level of Fiendbound Marauder warder (for a bunch of additional reach attacks with grab, as the monstrosity can now wear gauntlets)
6 levels of raging surge wilder (for every power in the game up to 7th and a few 8th level ones, all boosted by related feats, plus for example strength surge, spell sunder, savage dirty trick and every other rage power accessible by a barbarian of up to 6th level)
10 levels of Awakened Blade (psionic and initiator progression along with serious boosts to melee numbers and action economy)
20 levels of zealot (awesome maneuver recovery, PP-augmented maneuvers, protection mission for additional counter per round)

So, with suitable epic items, the slaad lord in its natural form ends up having Gargantuan size, a Str modifier likely above +30, and tons of very accurate melee attacks threatening a radius of up to more than 65 ft., having a 32d6 damage die (128d6 on AoOs) and a +150 Str bonus to damage (+300 on AoOs). Each and every hit of one of its melee attacks (made as part of full attack, attack action, charge, maneuver, AoO or whatever) grants three or more auto-succeeding free action Intimidate attempts (ignoring immunities) with stacking fear effects, on top of the slaad's DC 62+ energy drain potentially removing 3 levels per hit and a bunch of free action combat maneuvers, many with CMBs easily well above +100. These in turn reliably triggers up to an average of more than 15 Vital Strike AoOs pimped up with every SoM combat talent effect applicable to an attack action, giving the slaad easily up to an average total of more than 200 attacks during its own turn. Which is of course is more than enough to dispel/suppress virtually all meaningful magic protections with a practically auto-succeeding spell sunder CMB, and instantly panic, daze and/or kill any creatures in range unable to hide from likely at the very least a +100 Perception with long-range blindsight and true seeing.

Perhaps even more importantly, this insane Lord of The Insane is highly likely to also have numerous more actions per round than any other creature, both during its own turn and outside of it, and may interrupt and void any attempts to harm it several times per round and can potentially even act during time stops cast by other combatants etc. And that is of course in addition to having extremely high passive defense values, great mobility, stupidly high Stealth (with no size penalties), usable regardless of movement speed and whether being observed, and without granting enemies any advantages from special or magic senses.

Though I'm not familiar with the epic rules you use in this game, just from skimming through them I find it very difficult to see how a party of equal level PCs built according to the rules could stand any chance in combat against this kind of "Slaad God of The Feat Insanity" even though it's primarily a melee combatant and not much of a caster, and even when taking such a party's potentially greatly superior intelligence, careful planning and armies of lower level allies into account. And I'm certain there are builds which could far surpass this hastily thrown together idea.


Reread the feat. It grants a sphere OR talent from a sphere you already possess.

A character with a few hundred bonus feats could easily snap up every combat sphere printedAh, my bad. I'll edit.


I think there's something similar that increases the cl for spheres of power, but I'm not as familiar with it and not in a place where I can dig into it more.I believe Advanced Magical Training(?) lets you treat your non-caster classes as low-casting classes, so that's something. I don't have nearly enough SoP-fu to know if there are other options.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Most of the martial-oriented feats will grant you a pointless +2 to a specific type of die roll under very specific circumstances.

Most martial-type feats are, therefore, not worth bothering with.

Who remembers all those stupid conditional +2s, anyway? And why waste feats on them?

And then you have those people who think a conditional +2 is way too powerful and instead write feats that grant an even more pointless +1 instead. Those are winners, for sure. :smallsigh:

[arkangel111]

keep in mind that you are still limited by actions. it might be boring to grab some of those stacking +1s, but having every every feat that boosts archery and then not touching a bow is a complete waste. figure out how you want the fight to play out, make a contingency, and build it. then grab every stacking feat for health, AC, saves, or attack you can find.