Is Shield ACP ever relevant?

[SangoProduction]

I mean, in most cases where you're needing to make a skill check, you can just hook your shield to your pack and move on with what you're doing. I could imagine a situation where you need to clamber out of a snake pit, but you need both hands anyway, so you'd need to drop it with or without the penalty.

[Venger]

no, not really. people will either use +1 mithral bucklers for enchantments which have no acp, or tower shields to turtle, in which case you're not making any checks.

[Zaq]

Depends on if your GM tends towards battlefields where skill checks are relevant. The action cost associated with stowing and readying a shield is negligible in most (not all) non-combat situations, but it’s extremely relevant if you happen to need to climb or swim or whatever after initiative is rolled.

[tiercel]

AFAIK animated shields don’t negate ACP just because they’re animated, and at mid-to-high levels they probably become the most commonly used shield, especially for any character who needs both hands to be free of shield.

So if you have sufficient adventurer paranoia to want your floating shield bonus “always on,” shield ACP will either matter or be something you paid to reduce to zero, presumably.

[Venger]

AFAIK animated shields don’t negate ACP just because they’re animated, and at mid-to-high levels they probably become the most commonly used shield, especially for any character who needs both hands to be free of shield.

So if you have sufficient adventurer paranoia to want your floating shield bonus “always on,” shield ACP will either matter or be something you paid to reduce to zero, presumably.

they explicitly do not:


A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency.

[Willie the Duck]

If the bridge you are fighting upon gives way, and everyone has to make a jump check or plummet to a massive amount of damage (or just being out of the fight), and you do not have time to stow your shield, than by golly it will have an effect.

[Troacctid]

Sometimes you need to make checks in combat. Balance and Jump checks come up a lot when charging. Tumble and Escape Artist are used almost exclusively in combat. Climb and Swim can be important in some types of terrain. Hide and Move Silently are relevant if you want to hide in plain sight. And of course, for wearers who aren't proficient, the ACP applies to your initiative roll.

It's also a big deal if you have Weapon Finesse, since you apply your shield's ACP to attack rolls when using Weapon Finesse.

[Zaq]

It's also a big deal if you have Weapon Finesse, since you apply your shield's ACP to attack rolls when using Weapon Finesse.

I’ll be darned. I had no idea.

[KillianHawkeye]

no, not really. people will either use +1 mithral bucklers for enchantments which have no acp, or tower shields to turtle, in which case you're not making any checks.

{scrubbed} Lots of people use regular shields and have to deal with ACP.

Also, your assertion that somebody using a tower shield will never have to make a skill check is simply incorrect.

[Venger]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote} Lots of people use regular shields and have to deal with ACP.

Also, your assertion that somebody using a tower shield will never have to make a skill check is simply incorrect.

{scrubbed} SangroProduction asked a question, and I answered it. In the 10+ years I've played this game, those are the only circumstances I have used shields. It's the only way I've seen other people in groups I've played or ran with use shields. It's the only way they've told me about shield use in their games. It's the only way I've heard of people talking about shields using them.

If you have anecdotes about people using different kinds of shields which actually invoke acp, by all means, share them. No one's stopping you.

Tower shields' primary use is providing total cover. Since you forego attacks to enjoy this bonus, you're not very likely to be doing things where you need to make skill checks.

[Andreaz]

Depends on if your GM tends towards battlefields where skill checks are relevant. The action cost associated with stowing and readying a shield is negligible in most (not all) non-combat situations, but it’s extremely relevant if you happen to need to climb or swim or whatever after initiative is rolled.

Absolutely this, with the added note that this is mostly a levels 4-through-10 scenario. Before you can't do much anyway and later the penalty becomes negligible or outright zero.


str/dex skill checks are easy to make relevant in battle, the most obvious one being acrobatics. When you leave the white room things like climbing, balancing and jumping become commonplace.
Tall trees? Ranged guys benefit from going up, and melee guys have to match.
Stealth? shield users don't usually build for stealth, but stealth is still useful since even low values still let you creep closer to someone you are ambushing (range penalties are quite significant at distances you'd otherwise be quickly noticed).
Low obstacles and patches of difficult terrain can be bypassed entirely with jumps. With higher values you may even charge through an ally's position by vaulting over them.

[Venger]

Absolutely this, with the added note that this is mostly a levels 4-through-10 scenario. Before you can't do much anyway and later the penalty becomes negligible or outright zero.


str/dex skill checks are easy to make relevant in battle, the most obvious one being acrobatics. When you leave the white room things like climbing, balancing and jumping become commonplace.
Tall trees? Ranged guys benefit from going up, and melee guys have to match.
Stealth? shield users don't usually build for stealth, but stealth is still useful since even low values still let you creep closer to someone you are ambushing (range penalties are quite significant at distances you'd otherwise be quickly noticed).
Low obstacles and patches of difficult terrain can be bypassed entirely with jumps. With higher values you may even charge through an ally's position by vaulting over them.

Definitely true if you're in a situation where the check's unavoidable, like being in water. For stuff that's active, that you can choose not to do, like climbing or jumping, if you're using a shield, a lot of people would rather choose to avoid doing them to retain their shield bonus, so while they're at play restricting behavior, I still don't see the actual acp come into play much. jumping over guys is tough. even with a running start, you need to get to 36 (with acp) to avoid aoos from a medium foe. if you've got your numbers up, go for it i guess. what's your go-to? expeditious retreat?

[LordBlades]

The only circumstance where I've ever seen shield ACP being relevant is when trying to stick a shield somewhere the games designers considered you shouldn't, aka using shields without proficiency. If you want to do that, it's pretty important that your shield ACP is 0, since if you are not proficient the ACP applies to attack rolls and all skill checks that involve moving. Fortunately, Darkwood can get any shield apart from tower shields to 0 ACP.

As a side note, getting shields and armor with 0 ACP (and 0 ASF if you need that) and wearing them even if not proficient is a pretty neat trick. The 4th level shaper psion I made for an upcoming game has gt his AC from 13 to 19 simply by investing around 1300 gp in a Mithral Chan Shirt and a Darkwood Heavy Wooden Shield.

[darkdragoon]

Bucklers and light have 1, so easily handled with masterwork.
Heavy is 2.
Exotics vary but are still generally less of an issue than tower.

a mithral tower is still going to be an issue, but barring something like "I'm going to do my Armored Armadillo impression" it seems like you probably would avoid doing much with it anyway.

[tiercel]

In the case of tower shields, the darn things are heavy enough that, together with armor and equipment, the whole “I just carry it rather than use it as a shield and thus magically obviate its ACP” might well not be a total pass, since being at a medium or heavy encumbrance load still slaps you with a check penalty that works like ACP.

Sure, you can work around this, but if you are expending resources to keep this option on the table and avoid encumbrance penalties, then the ACP is indirectly relevant insofar as it’s making you spend resources to get around both ACP and encumbrance.