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Sir Edgen
2019-07-27, 02:09 PM
Hello everyone. For a long time I've wanted to create a character that would be very unusual at his core. One of my ideas - a character that is somehow bound to/is an object.
My first thought was about sentient weapon, and it has already been realised by Xefas with his magnificent Syntrofos from Mythos system (by the way, I'd like to know your opinions on it. If you have played with this class, please, share your thoughts).
The concept of my character is more "active". It is a demon egg (or more like a cocoon), that obviously can't move, attack, physically defend itself (str -, dex -, con aroud 10) etc. However, it has superior mental stats. If an "egg" is a race, the class of this character would be Psychic/Wizard, with emphasis on illusions, mind control and possession. It is very close to a sentient cursed item from some horror movie or mini Earthbound from Demon the Fallen (oWod).
From the other side, it could be neat to give it "demon" class, which gives over levels standart demon traits and SLAs. Also I like concept of Psychic Duels, and would give the character SLA to start PD from the first level, so that it could fight alongside teammates or weaken boss enemies in his downtime.
Assuming that other characters must carry this egg on themselves, protect it or hide it during the battle, what is the best way to balance such character? Should he also have any additional defence such as natural armor or hardness?
Thanks in advance.

Psyren
2019-07-27, 03:15 PM
The "Psionic Sandwich" (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=bemuiibj7mtsqvaempqfvcohi7&topic=1187.msg8798#msg8798) is the commonly cited trick here. You can use it to be any object really. Note that eggs might be a bit trickier to classify as objects or creatures.

With that said, your reference to Psychics and Psychic Duels leads me to believe you're playing Pathfinder, where the trick might be harder unless you also have access to Psionics. AFAIK, psychic magic doesn't really have an equivalent to Astral Seed.

Crake
2019-07-27, 03:17 PM
Consider playing a fiend who is trapped inside a particular item? There's a spell called trap possessor or something along those lines, say he's had that cast on the item he's inside, and it's of sufficient strength that it's impossible for the party to dispel by conventional means, and you could make it a side story to try and break from your prison?

Methods of doing this could be either taking levels in fiend of possession (fiend folio), or playing one of the various demons who are innately capable of possession (Guecubu or dybbuks, both from fiendish codex I).

Another alternative is the unholy scion from heroes of horror. They are sentient even while inside their mother's womb, or if they are animals (and they can be animals) while still in their eggs. They can use all of their abilities from there, and are fully cognizant, having full mental ability scores and whatnot, so you could likely even convince your DM to allow you to gain experience and class levels while inside an egg. One issue with this is that I believe all of their abilities and senses are based on their mother, so they can use their abilities using their mother as the point of origin, and can see through their mother's eyes, so the party would have to carry around the scion's mother as well, so I'm just imagining the players carrying around a little hamper with a chicken inside of it shooting death rays.

Telonius
2019-07-27, 04:37 PM
If the DM is open to this, you might be able to re-work the "Brain in a Jar" monster from Libris Mortis. The basic concept is the same; not-very-mobile thing that fights using psionics. Switch it from Undead to Outsider, maybe kill a couple of the RHD and the Fly speed; advance as a Psion.

ExLibrisMortis
2019-07-27, 04:52 PM
The Unholy Scion template has some interesting fluff: "[...] the horror gestating in its mother’s womb is already fully intelligent and possesses the ability to influence its mother’s actions and observe the world through her senses".

It's not quite a trapped outsider or a demon egg, but it could be interesting to play an unholy scion enchanter possessing, say, a (fallen) paladin.

Crake
2019-07-27, 05:01 PM
The Unholy Scion template has some interesting fluff: "[...] the horror gestating in its mother’s womb is already fully intelligent and possesses the ability to influence its mother’s actions and observe the world through her senses".

It's not quite a trapped outsider or a demon egg, but it could be interesting to play an unholy scion enchanter possessing, say, a (fallen) paladin.

Actually, it could very well be. The book describes an unholy scion coming into being in two different ways: One through being concieved in an area of high taint, but the other, that's far more fitting to the thread, is an unborn child being possessed by an outsider, the fiend merging with the baby's body, and essentially becoming the baby's soul. Thus, in essence, the unholy scion is basically a fiend trapped inside an unborn child, or egg as it may well be. To quote the book itself: "An unholy scion can also be created when a fiend mentally possess an unborn child within the womb." and "All unholy scions are irredeemably evil. By the time the child is born, it is no longer possible to separate the possessing fiend from the newly developed mind and soul; they are one, forever intertwined. The fiend can never return to its original form, and slaying one requires slaying the other."

ExLibrisMortis
2019-07-27, 05:10 PM
Actually, it could very well be. The book describes an unholy scion coming into being in two different ways: One through being concieved in an area of high taint, but the other, that's far more fitting to the thread, is an unborn child being possessed by an outsider, the fiend merging with the baby's body, and essentially becoming the baby's soul. Thus, in essence, the unholy scion is basically a fiend trapped inside an unborn child, or egg as it may well be. To quote the book itself: "An unholy scion can also be created when a fiend mentally possess an unborn child within the womb." and "All unholy scions are irredeemably evil. By the time the child is born, it is no longer possible to separate the possessing fiend from the newly developed mind and soul; they are one, forever intertwined. The fiend can never return to its original form, and slaying one requires slaying the other."
Huh, good point. It's way more fitting than I thought :smalltongue:. Should've read more of the description.

DrMotives
2019-07-27, 06:56 PM
I did see someone build a character who, game mechanic-wise, was along these line but not so horrific. They wanted to play a sentient bonzai tree, living in a little pot. Psion, specializing in telekinesis was their choice. Although they wound up playing it in GURPS instead of D&D eventually. They liked building an unusual character better in that system.

PoeticallyPsyco
2019-07-28, 03:24 AM
Fiend of Possession seems like the classic prestige class for this. Do Unholy Scions have the Outsider [Evil] type/subtype?

Crake
2019-07-28, 06:57 AM
Fiend of Possession seems like the classic prestige class for this. Do Unholy Scions have the Outsider [Evil] type/subtype?

Yes, they become outsiders and gain both the evil, and native subtypes, so you could definitely go into fiend of possession with them, though I was more imagining just playing one from within the womb or egg for the purposes of this thread, as it more fits with the narrative. If you wanted to just play a fiend of possession, there are easier entries than +5 LA unholy scion.

ExLibrisMortis
2019-07-28, 08:40 AM
Yes, they become outsiders and gain both the evil, and native subtypes, so you could definitely go into fiend of possession with them, though I was more imagining just playing one from within the womb or egg for the purposes of this thread, as it more fits with the narrative. If you wanted to just play a fiend of possession, there are easier entries than +5 LA unholy scion.
This, yeah. Though... you could argue that the unborn scion could take class levels (being fully intelligent), especially for classes that fluff easily as "entirely mental" (psionics, mainly, but a transmuter with Silent Spell and Eschew Materials could cast some buffs...), so maybe an unholy scion fiend of possession with a paladin cohort really could leave the womb and wreak havoc.

The FoP's Hide Presence ability is really nice, actually, if "being in the womb" counts as "possessing a creature" (for this character concept, I would definitely houserule that it does!).