Shield Cantrip?

[paladinn]

Looking into Pathfinder 2e (which is, for the most part, a train wreck).. In PF2, the Shield spell has been changed to be a cantrip (+1 AC, "hardness"/damage absorb-able based on upcasting to a leveled spell).

In D&D 3x and PF1, it was +4 AC; there was no "hardness" element. In 5e it's +5AC, again no "hardness" factor. Both nullify Magic Missiles.

It occurred to me that with the advent of at-will attack cantrips, there should be some sort of defense cantrip. Lvl 1 casters need defense even more than they need offense!

Should there be some sort of "lesser shield" cantrip that, like all cantrips, would be usable at-will?

I rather like the idea of upcastable cantrips anyway.

[Frozenstep]

Blade Ward.

[Zhorn]

Looking into Pathfinder 2e (which is, for the most part, a train wreck).. In PF2, the Shield spell has been changed to be a cantrip (+1 AC, "hardness"/damage absorb-able based on upcasting to a leveled spell).

In D&D 3x and PF1, it was +4 AC; there was no "hardness" element. In 5e it's +5AC, again no "hardness" factor. Both nullify Magic Missiles.

It occurred to me that with the advent of at-will attack cantrips, there should be some sort of defense cantrip. Lvl 1 casters need defense even more than they need offense!

Should there be some sort of "lesser shield" cantrip that, like all cantrips, would be usable at-will?

I rather like the idea of upcastable cantrips anyway.

Distance and line of sight are the best defenses for those low level casters :smalltongue:

I don't think there's a need for a 'lesser shield' cantrip considering what's already in the game.
Mage Armor lasts 8 hours, no concentration and gives you an AC of 13+Dex.
Shield being a 1st level spell means it is already immediately accessible by 1st level characters.
As Frozenstep mentioned, Blade Ward offers resistance to bludgeoning/piercing/slashing at a cantrip level.
And with those first couple of levels flying by pretty quickly, a few classes get access to HP buffers in those first couple of levels that offer a degree of 'hardness equivalent' in damage reduction or temporary hitpoints. Abjuration Wizards (specialising in defensive magics) get their Arcane Ward at level 2.

[Lunali]

There's also war wizard, +2 AC or +4 save vs a single attack as a reaction.

[Zhorn]

And Bladesong for adding Int modifier to your AC.

[Xihirli]

Well, Minor Illusion.

[Tanarii]

Blade Ward.
Yup. Already exists.

[Laserlight]

"Standing behind the meatshields".

[paladinn]

Yup. Already exists.

Does Blade Ward work against arrows as well? I'm sure it doesn't work against Magic Missiles, but how about Firebolts?

"Resistance" against the weapons sounds good, but for a squishy caster, even 1/2 damage is risky!

[PhantomSoul]

Does Blade Ward work against arrows as well? I'm sure it doesn't work against Magic Missiles, but how about Firebolts?

It works for arrows and magic weapon attacks, but not for spell attacks:


You extend your hand and trace a sigil of warding in the air. Until the end of your next turn, you have resistance against bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage dealt by weapon attacks.

[NNescio]

Does Blade Ward work against arrows as well? I'm sure it doesn't work against Magic Missiles, but how about Firebolts?

"Resistance" against the weapons sounds good, but for a squishy caster, even 1/2 damage is risky!

You get resistance against Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage dealt by weapon attacks. Shot arrows are (ranged) weapon attacks. They qualify. Firebolts don't, because they deal fire damage, and are spell attacks.

Despite the name, unarmed strikes and a monster's natural attacks are also considered weapon attacks, despite performed with non-weapons.

Yeah, its confusing, but ruling otherwise will shut off a lot of feats and class features. Basically, every attack is either a weapon attack or a spell attack (which may not necessarily be associated with an actual spell! Examples include the Efreeti's Hurl Flame.).

In any case, Blade Ward is an absolutely horrible cantrip that is usually worse than taking the Dodge action (or Disengaging/Dashing behind cover), unless you are rooted to the spot (can't move means you can't dodge/disengage/dash). Even then you are usually better off with some other option like casting a spell to run away or just plain damage/CC your enemies instead. Or dropping a Minor Illusion over your head.

Sorcerers can Quicken a Blade Ward to cast it as a bonus action, but this prevents casting a leveled spell afterwards.

All in all, the situations where Blade Ward is viable is so limited, it does not justify taking up a cantrip slot. Skip the spell.

--

Going back to the main topic, Wizards can get at-will casting for Shield with their 18th level Spell Mastery feature, which sort of makes it like a cantrip (it's not, technically, which is important when considering interactions with their other class features and bonus action spells). This is usually the default pick for most Wizards anyway, except for Illusionists who are up to Illusory Reality shenanigans.

[paladinn]

You get resistance against Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage dealt by weapon attacks. Shot arrows are (ranged) weapon attacks. They qualify. Firebolts don't, because they deal fire damage, and are spell attacks.

Despite the name, unarmed strikes and a monster's natural attacks are also considered weapon attacks, despite performed with non-weapons.

Yeah, its confusing, but ruling otherwise will shut off a lot of feats and class features. Basically, every attack is either a weapon attack or a spell attack (which may not necessarily be associated with an actual spell! Examples include the Efreeti's Hurl Flame!).

If I'm a 1st level wizard with 6 hp, I'd like to not go down with one hit. I don't want to be a front-liner, but I'd like to survive my first encounter. And if I cast Shield, I'm down to one 1st level slot. And I doubt I can count on the DM giving me bracers of defense right at the start.

I'm reminded why I never play a SC wizard :(

[NNescio]

If I'm a 1st level wizard with 6 hp, I'd like to not go down with one hit. I don't want to be a front-liner, but I'd like to survive my first encounter. And if I cast Shield, I'm down to one 1st level slot. And I doubt I can count on the DM giving me bracers of defense right at the start.

I'm reminded why I never play a SC wizard :(

Cast Sleep, end the encounter.

Cast Fog Cloud; screw the archers. (Especially if they happen to be knife-ears who are immune to Sleep.)

Cast Mage Armor when you reach the adventure site if you are not confident of not getting hit and want some insurance.

Cast Find Familiar before the adventuring day to get an Owl familiar. It has a passive perception of 18. This helps avoid getting ambushed by hidden enemies. The owl also has Flyby, so it can fly in 5ft of an enemy and distract it (using the Help action) to give you or your ally advantage on the next attack against said enemy.

Alternatively, get a Bat instead if you are going to adventure in a dark cave or something. It has Blindsight, and you can share its senses (using your action each turn).

Shoot your crossbow (or bow if Elf) or use a long-ranged attack cantrip, then hide behind your party tanks to get half cover.

Pack caltrops and ball bearings. Use them to help control enemy movement if you want to save spell slots (or are out).

Cast Minor Illusion over yourself to block line of sight. You can try hiding if it's feasible. Or fire Chill Touch to hit enemies with advantage (they can't see you and it doesn't physically interact with the illusion), but that reveals your position (making stealth useless), 'though you still remain technically unseen. The illusion does go away for anyone who sees an arrow (or a creature) passing through (but it's good for imposing disadvantage on one ranged attack).

If there aren't any melee threats around, you can fall prone at the end of your turn. Use spells that don't depend on attack rolls, or just stand up if your want to shoot something, then fall prone again.

Use Disengage and Dash to get out of the reach of enemy melee. Use Dodge if you are forced to take hits (unless your speed is zero).

Use Mold Earth to dig ditches and build walls (both with one action). Crouch within the ditch for full cover.

If you somehow managed to get caught in heavy combat even after all the above precautions... persuade the party cleric (if you have one) to protect you with Sanctuary. Drop Minor Illusions and Mold Earths to still contribute to the team while under Sanctuary. Or use Help actions (note that Minor Illusion can be effectively used as a ranged pseudo-Help action by dropping it over your ally, making him unseen for one attack). Or order your familiar to use Help actions.

There are many alternatives. Using Blade Ward means you are resigning yourself to getting hit, because you can't do anything with your action (which has been taken up by casting Blade Ward). You will almost never want to cast Blade Ward, unless you, like, get hit by a Druid's Entangle or something and are out of spell slots. Even then Mold Earth is prolly a better option, unless you are surrounded (in which case you are going to die anyway, Blade Ward or no.)

(And if you're grappled and cornered in melee... well, grab two daggers [make sure you have one out first], or shortswords if you're an elf, then start stabbing. You should be able to deal decent damage unless you dumped DEX [which you shouldn't; it's suicide]. Use your familiar to Help you if your allies can't reach.)

[Tanarii]

"Resistance" against the weapons sounds good, but for a squishy caster, even 1/2 damage is risky!
Depending on your AC, the enemies attack bonus, and the incoming damage, 1/2 damage can be better than taking the dodge action or +5 AC. Certainly it's going to be better than a small bonus AC bonus.

You have a point it would be nice if it worked against magic attacks. But until high levels (or your DM has an unusual campaign) those are far less common than a physical attackers. Albeit generally more of a threat each if you party has the ability to form a solid line of combat.

Otoh it hadn't occurred to me you're probably thinking of a small AC bonus that uses your reaction. To many players, they'd consider that more beneficial than one that uses your action. Players are just a mite loathe to use their action "doing nothing", even if that "nothing" is absorbing a lot of damage.

[paladinn]

It's been kinda funny reading how many means that a low-level caster has to defend him/herself don't involve magic. If I'm a wizard, I don't really want to be an archer (unless maybe I'm an elf).

I guess it's just struck me that, if I can launch a (admittedly) low-powered cantrip as an at-will attack, there oughta be some sort of equivalent defense. To quote the great philosopher Mr. Miyagi, "Must learn defense first, Daniel-San"

Oh.. the "you can get Shield at-will at 18th level" isn't very encouraging to a 1st-level wizard's apprentice..lol

[Zetakya]

It's been kinda funny reading how many means that a low-level caster has to defend him/herself don't involve magic. If I'm a wizard, I don't really want to be an archer (unless maybe I'm an elf).

I guess it's just struck me that, if I can launch a (admittedly) low-powered cantrip as an at-will attack, there oughta be some sort of equivalent defense. To quote the great philosopher Mr. Miyagi, "Must learn defense first, Daniel-San"

Oh.. the "you can get Shield at-will at 18th level" isn't very encouraging to a 1st-level wizard's apprentice..lol

Go for War Mage: Arcane Deflection at level 2.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There is (Blade Ward). It just stinks.

I could see something like "+1 AC for 1 round as a bonus action," maybe.

[paladinn]

Go for War Mage: Arcane Deflection at level 2.

Great if you're a War Mage

[paladinn]

There is (Blade Ward). It just stinks.

I could see something like "+1 AC for 1 round as a bonus action," maybe.

Better than nothing I guess. Maybe +2? Let's face it, a 1st level caster is still gonna get creamed in melee.

Mage Armor gives AC13; Shield gives +5AC. I think there's a lot of wiggle-room between zero and that.

[JNAProductions]

Better than nothing I guess. Maybe +2? Let's face it, a 1st level caster is still gonna get creamed in melee.

Mage Armor gives AC13; Shield gives +5AC. I think there's a lot of wiggle-room between zero and that.

The issue is that more than squishy casters can get it.

Look at Eldritch Knight-they can hit AC 21 before magic (Full Plate, Shield, Defensive Fighting Style) so +2 to AC as a bonus action is AC 23 for no cost but opportunity. And they still have Shield to hit 28 if need be.

[paladinn]

The issue is that more than squishy casters can get it.

Look at Eldritch Knight-they can hit AC 21 before magic (Full Plate, Shield, Defensive Fighting Style) so +2 to AC as a bonus action is AC 23 for no cost but opportunity. And they still have Shield to hit 28 if need be.

I'd think an EK, or any sort of martial class/MC, would have better use for a cantrip slot than what we're proposing.

Maybe put a cap on the AC from the cantrip?

[JNAProductions]

I'd think an EK, or any sort of martial class/MC, would have better use for a cantrip slot than what we're proposing.

Maybe put a cap on the AC from the cantrip?

Pray tell what would be a better use of a cantrip for a Fighter?

[paladinn]

Pray tell what would be a better use of a cantrip for a Fighter?

If you actually have heavy armor and a real shield, I'd imagine lots of other cantrips would be more benefit that +1 or 2 AC. Firebolt.. mage hand.. the list goes on.

Do you think an already-tanky fighter would flip over +2 more AC when other stuff is available?

Oh.. SCAG cantrips too

[Teaguethebean]

If you actually have heavy armor and a real shield, I'd imagine lots of other cantrips would be more benefit that +1 or 2 AC. Firebolt.. mage hand.. the list goes on.

Do you think an already-tanky fighter would flip over +2 more AC when other stuff is available?

Oh.. SCAG cantrips too

Not at all as AC gets better exponentially a character with 26 ac from shield will be hit one out of ten times from an enemy with plus 8 to hit but if that character gets even a plus 1 more ac they are hit half as much increasing their defense a ton.

[JNAProductions]

If you actually have heavy armor and a real shield, I'd imagine lots of other cantrips would be more benefit that +1 or 2 AC. Firebolt.. mage hand.. the list goes on.

Do you think an already-tanky fighter would flip over +2 more AC when other stuff is available?

Oh.. SCAG cantrips too

First off-you can take both the Shieldtrip and the SCAG cantrips.

Second off-+2 AC is most useful WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE HIGH AC. At AC 21, +1 AC against a commoner (+2 to-hit) cuts your damage by a third. At 15 AC (+2 Dex and Mage Armor) +1 AC cuts damage by a ninth.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Perhaps our hypothetical Shieldtrip could specifically not stack with regular shields, and/or require a free hand? Make it a literal "I summon a magic shield" kind of thing.

[paladinn]

Perhaps our hypothetical Shieldtrip could specifically not stack with regular shields, and/or require a free hand? Make it a literal "I summon a magic shield" kind of thing.

I would think any low-level caster would appreciate such a thing. Is it as good as Shield or Mage Armor? Of course not.. but it is at-will, and it's better than blade ward.

I actually like PF2's approach.. a cantrip that provides a minimal AC boost, but can be upcast using a spell slot. IMHO, a lot of cantrips should be this way (i.e. firebolt, eldritch blast, maybe magic missile)

[Joe the Rat]

Looking at the discussion, making Blade Ward a Reaction cantrip would provide a quick defense cantrip, and make Blade Ward useful for more than Frosty Warlocks.

[Tanarii]

There is (Blade Ward). It just stinks.

I could see something like "+1 AC for 1 round as a bonus action," maybe.
That's useful as a bonus when you don't need defense, but it's not very useful when you need to sacrifice your action for real defense.

The only question with Blade Ward is if Dodge is better. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. For a low AC caster facing a high hit bonus and damage attack(s), resistance can be far better. And Dodge certainly isn't better if you face several enemies and the first one Grapples you. But it definitely is if you face magical attacks or dex saves. And if you can't spare the cantrip slot.

But like I said, lots of players aren't willing to sacrifice an action for pure defense. That holds true with Dodge as well.

[D-naras]

Maybe base the Shieldtrip after Barkskin?
Bonus-Action cast
Until the start of your next turn, your AC can't be less than 15, scaling to 19 at the usual levels (5th, 11th and 17th).

[Zhorn]

Maybe base the Shieldtrip after Barkskin?
Bonus-Action cast
Until the start of your next turn, your AC can't be less than 15, scaling to 19 at the usual levels (5th, 11th and 17th).

Feels a bit too strong to get AC that high as a cantrip AND a bonus action AND for a full turn, especially considering the primary candidate for this spell is usually sitting around AC 10 to 12 and spending a 1st level slot gives a +5 with Shield.

[D-naras]

Feels a bit too strong to get AC that high as a cantrip AND a bonus action AND for a full turn, especially considering the primary candidate for this spell is usually sitting around AC 10 to 12 and spending a 1st level slot gives a +5 with Shield.

Actually, spending a 1st level slot gives you Mage Armor so you can get 15 AC with +2 Dex for 8 hours, which isn't a stretch for any Wizard or Sorcerer.

I feel 15 AC is just low enough that only full casters will want to use since Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters can use armor. Additionally, the Bonus Action cost is pretty significant at higher levels, when it competes with Misty Step, etc. hence the scaling.

[Zhorn]

Actually, spending a 1st level slot gives you Mage Armor so you can get 15 AC with +2 Dex for 8 hours, which isn't a stretch for any Wizard or Sorcerer.

I feel 15 AC is just low enough that only full casters will want to use since Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters can use armor. Additionally, the Bonus Action cost is pretty significant at higher levels, when it competes with Misty Step, etc. hence the scaling.

Bit of a misunderstanding on what I mean. Getting as high as that 19 you listed is what I mean as too powerful for a cantrip level (though bringing up mage armor is making that 15 look a bit of an overstep also).
There's a power-balance that needs to be understood when making new spells to exist alongside existing spells. It needs to be strong enough to be a viable pick, but not so strong that it is ALWAYS picked over the alternative.

In the case of Shield, the cantrip you propose offers a pretty comparable boost to AC (potentially even better) without expending a spell slot.
For Mage Armor, unless you are needing a bonus action particularly for something, giving a AC of 15+ is achieved without spending a spell slot by spam casting that cantrip over and over. Tedious, but effective.

[NNescio]

Bit of a misunderstanding on what I mean. Getting as high as that 19 you listed is what I mean as too powerful for a cantrip level (though bringing up mage armor is making that 15 look a bit of an overstep also).
There's a power-balance that needs to be understood when making new spells to exist alongside existing spells. It needs to be strong enough to be a viable pick, but not so strong that it is ALWAYS picked over the alternative.

In the case of Shield, the cantrip you propose offers a pretty comparable boost to AC (potentially even better) without expending a spell slot.
For Mage Armor, unless you are needing a bonus action particularly for something, giving a AC of 15+ is achieved without spending a spell slot by spam casting that cantrip over and over. Tedious, but effective.

Well, it does prevent casting of any spell other than a cantrip on that turn, but yeah, it does seem like an autopick for a lot of builds, so I agree it's unbalanced.

Maybe put a limit on the number of attacks it can work on?

[D-naras]

Bit of a misunderstanding on what I mean. Getting as high as that 19 you listed is what I mean as too powerful for a cantrip level (though bringing up mage armor is making that 15 look a bit of an overstep also).
There's a power-balance that needs to be understood when making new spells to exist alongside existing spells. It needs to be strong enough to be a viable pick, but not so strong that it is ALWAYS picked over the alternative.

In the case of Shield, the cantrip you propose offers a pretty comparable boost to AC (potentially even better) without expending a spell slot.
For Mage Armor, unless you are needing a bonus action particularly for something, giving a AC of 15+ is achieved without spending a spell slot by spam casting that cantrip over and over. Tedious, but effective.

The more I think about it, the more it seems fine to me like that. 15 AC isn't great at Tier 1 but passable for the action cost. 19 AC is nothing at Tier 4 and by that time, you'd probably have something to use your Bonus Action on.

But since we are spit-balling ideas here, if you think it's too strong, have it apply for Casting-mod targets/attacks, or be Concentration with a duration of 1 minute.

[Willie the Duck]

Looking into Pathfinder 2e (which is, for the most part, a train wreck).. In PF2, the Shield spell has been changed to be a cantrip (+1 AC, "hardness"/damage absorb-able based on upcasting to a leveled spell).

In D&D 3x and PF1, it was +4 AC; there was no "hardness" element. In 5e it's +5AC, again no "hardness" factor. Both nullify Magic Missiles.

It occurred to me that with the advent of at-will attack cantrips, there should be some sort of defense cantrip. Lvl 1 casters need defense even more than they need offense!

Should there be some sort of "lesser shield" cantrip that, like all cantrips, would be usable at-will?

The first thing that I will mention is that just because 3x and PF1/2 has a specific thing does not mean that 5e needs that very specific thing as well. 5e and those games are very different, not just in how AC interacts with the rest of the game (bounded accuracy being a very big part of the difference between 5e and 3e, where they otherwise might superficially look similar), but also in terms of what options are open to a wizard. 5e has Mountain Dwarf wizards who might rock a 16 AC at level 1 (going up to 17 once half-plate becomes a reasonable purchase), or hobgoblin wizards who can take moderately armored at 4th level and rock a 19 AC most of their career, or of course anyone can do a multiclass dip into fighter with defensive fighting style or Forge cleric and be a level-1 wizard with 20AC. 3e/PF doesn't have this specific setup and thus have alternate methods of making low-level wizards who feel routinely targeted have an extra measure of security.

Much more importantly, the dynamic about being able to have a defended back line is highly different, and that will make much more of a difference to the survivability of your wizard than any modification of raw numbers will ever do. If you've played low-level wizards in 5e and not found them durable enough to justify their advantages (and at level 1, a wizards with Sleep basically has a 'we win' button a couple times per day), I think your group's playstyle might be the primary culprit.

Regardless, the question is should there be a lesser shield cantrip, and I'm not here to just boo-hoo the idea that there might be a need. So let's think about what one might/should look like. For that, we need to determine if there is a design space for such a thing. As mentioned, there is already a great action that a wizard can take, if they are valuing defense over offense -- the dodge action. Towards the center of the dice distribution (where a normal wizard's AC usually is), disadvantage on attacks against them is a little over +4 AC, in terms of how often it will change a hit to a miss. It's just mundane, and thus doesn't feel very 'wizard-ish.' I get that, you want a wizard to be casting spells to help themselves. However, Dodge takes up such a huge part of the potential design space, I don't know what else to do. Yes, there could be reaction- or bonus action-based effects, but as others have mentioned, those (even if they are like +1 AC) will be mostly candy for EK*s, and not really help the AC 12-15 normal wizard as much. Therefore, I would focus on making a cantrip that would close down some of the limitations of the dodge action.
*although I suppose that we should mention that, since we're effectively talking about house rules, there's absolutely no reason we can't declare a spell to be on the wizard spell list, but not the EK's or AT's, if it were deemed too powerful for them.

Here is my suggestion:

Wizardly Defense
cantrip-level abjuration

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 round

Acts just like the dodge action (until the start of your next turn, any Attack roll made against you has disadvantage, and you make Dexterity Saving Throws with advantage), excepting that you retain this bonus if you are Incapacitated (as explained in Conditions ), if your speed drops to 0, or if you cannot see your attacker.

That gives a nice minor bonus to an already great combat option in exchange for a small-but-not-inconsequential cost (a cantrip slot).

[paladinn]

I understand that 5e and 3x work differently. For the most part I celebrate that difference. The PF Shield cantrip just struck me as potentially useful and adaptable. And I particularly like a cantrip that has limited use cast as a cantrip, but can be upcast using a spell slot for greater effect.

Since this is meant to be a last-resort for a low-level caster who finds him/herself in a melee situation, maybe s/he foregoes any other actions while the cantrip is in effect. Which I guess includes requiring concentration.

[Willie the Duck]

I understand that 5e and 3x work differently. For the most part I celebrate that difference. The PF Shield cantrip just struck me as potentially useful and adaptable. And I particularly like a cantrip that has limited use cast as a cantrip, but can be upcast using a spell slot for greater effect.

That is definitely an interesting mechanic. One I can imagine enjoying playing with. It just happens that there isn't a huge amount of real estate left in the defensive spell market that I imagine it going


Since this is meant to be a last-resort for a low-level caster who finds him/herself in a melee situation, maybe s/he foregoes any other actions while the cantrip is in effect. Which I guess includes requiring concentration.

Concentration brings to mind Sanctuary. What about a self-only version of that spell? Cantrip level could require a action to cast, and upcasting making it a bonus action (not exactly sure what level 2+ gets you)?

[NNescio]

Concentration brings to mind Sanctuary. What about a self-only version of that spell? Cantrip level could require a action to cast, and upcasting making it a bonus action (not exactly sure what level 2+ gets you)?

Minor Illusion kinda does that (unless you have a tall caster). Only good for one hit though, but it doesn't require concentration. Then again Minor Illusion also treads on the toes of True Strike, so...

That aside, no known cantrips can be upcasted yet (those that scale do so automatically with character levels). I suppose you could homebrew something that can be cast using spell slots, but it does seem a bit inelegant. Maybe instead have its power boosted by expending spell slots as part of the casting? It's functionally the same under most circumstances, but doesn't run into thorny issues with turning a cantrip into a leveled spell.

[JNAProductions]

That is definitely an interesting mechanic. One I can imagine enjoying playing with. It just happens that there isn't a huge amount of real estate left in the defensive spell market that I imagine it going

Concentration brings to mind Sanctuary. What about a self-only version of that spell? Cantrip level could require a action to cast, and upcasting making it a bonus action (not exactly sure what level 2+ gets you)?

Reaction-cast Sanctuary is far more valuable than bonus action.

[Willie the Duck]

Reaction-cast Sanctuary is far more valuable than bonus action.

Okay, maybe that's level 2+. There doesn't have to be a specific benefit to each level either, although we're already turning this into quite the swiss-army spell, here.



That aside, no known cantrips can be upcasted yet (those that scale do so automatically with character levels). I suppose you could homebrew something that can be cast using spell slots, but it does seem a bit inelegant. Maybe instead have its power boosted by expending spell slots as part of the casting? It's functionally the same under most circumstances, but doesn't run into thorny issues with turning a cantrip into a leveled spell.

In one you are upcasting a cantrip as a level 1+ spell, the other you are casting a cantrip, and sacrificing a level 1+ spell slot in doing so, do I have that right? I'm really not seeing the (importance of the) distinction. Regardless, an upcast cantrip is literally what the OP was asking for, so that's what I'm trying to build. It's by definition homebrew, so I trust that there is a competent DM willing to step in on any game-breaking boundary issues (Dispels? Is that where you see a difference?).

[Vogie]

Perhaps our hypothetical Shieldtrip could specifically not stack with regular shields, and/or require a free hand? Make it a literal "I summon a magic shield" kind of thing.


Animate Shield
Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (one shield, worth 10 gp or more)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round

One shield in range that is not being worn or carried leaps into the air and hovers in your space to protect you as if you were wielding it and proficient with it, but leaving your hands free. The shield remains animated until the beginning or your next turn, or until you are Incapacitated or die, at which point the shield falls to the ground.


What this does is:

Uses the existing shield mechanics (can only benefit from one shield at a time)
Requires the character to have access to a shield.
Doesn't step on the toes of the existing shield/mage armor/Shield of faith stratagem
Doesn't impact spellcasting, but does continually require one's bonus action to keep up.

[NNescio]

Animate Shield
Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (one shield, worth 10 gp or more)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round

One shield in range that is not being worn or carried leaps into the air and hovers in your space to protect you as if you were wielding it and proficient with it, but leaving your hands free. The shield remains animated until the beginning or your next turn, or until you are Incapacitated or die, at which point the shield falls to the ground.


What this does is:

Uses the existing shield mechanics (can only benefit from one shield at a time)
Requires the character to have access to a shield.
Doesn't step on the toes of the existing shield/mage armor/Shield of faith stratagem
Doesn't impact spellcasting, but does continually require one's bonus action to keep up.


This is so brilliant it's beautiful.


In one you are upcasting a cantrip as a level 1+ spell, the other you are casting a cantrip, and sacrificing a level 1+ spell slot in doing so, do I have that right? I'm really not seeing the (importance of the) distinction. Regardless, an upcast cantrip is literally what the OP was asking for, so that's what I'm trying to build. It's by definition homebrew, so I trust that there is a competent DM willing to step in on any game-breaking boundary issues (Dispels? Is that where you see a difference?).

Yes and yes, sort of. 'though my objection is more that it creates a singular, one-off exception to the rules (cantrips don't use spell slots. A game effect may, however, prompt the expenditure of spell slots to generate some other effect), making it kinda kludgy.

[JNAProductions]

Animate Shield
Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (one shield, worth 10 gp or more)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round

One shield in range that is not being worn or carried leaps into the air and hovers in your space to protect you as if you were wielding it and proficient with it, but leaving your hands free. The shield remains animated until the beginning or your next turn, or until you are Incapacitated or die, at which point the shield falls to the ground.


What this does is:

Uses the existing shield mechanics (can only benefit from one shield at a time)
Requires the character to have access to a shield.
Doesn't step on the toes of the existing shield/mage armor/Shield of faith stratagem
Doesn't impact spellcasting, but does continually require one's bonus action to keep up.


I'll second this as a good cantrip. Does allow for EK's to use a two-hander and still benefit from a shield's AC, but that doesn't feel too unreasonable.

[Vogie]

I'll second this as a good cantrip. Does allow for EK's to use a two-hander and still benefit from a shield's AC, but that doesn't feel too unreasonable.

EK's are a little strange, because War Magic allows them to basically do this anyway - They're the only subclass who could, unironically use True Strike or Blade Ward in combat effectively, starting at level 7

[Zhorn]

Animate Shield
Transmutation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 10 feet
Components: V, S, M (one shield, worth 10 gp or more)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round

One shield in range that is not being worn or carried leaps into the air and hovers in your space to protect you as if you were wielding it and proficient with it, but leaving your hands free. The shield remains animated until the beginning or your next turn, or until you are Incapacitated or die, at which point the shield falls to the ground.


What this does is:

Uses the existing shield mechanics (can only benefit from one shield at a time)
Requires the character to have access to a shield.
Doesn't step on the toes of the existing shield/mage armor/Shield of faith stratagem
Doesn't impact spellcasting, but does continually require one's bonus action to keep up.


... yep. Looks like you've found that power-balance sweet spot. Nice work.

[paladinn]

... yep. Looks like you've found that power-balance sweet spot. Nice work.

From the PF2 playtest:

You raise a magical shield of force to protect you.
This counts as using the Raise a Shield action to
gain a +1 circumstance bonus to AC until the start of your next
turn, though it doesn’t require a hand to use.
While the spell is in effect, you can also use the Shield Block
reaction with your magic shield. The shield has Hardness 4. After
you use Shield Block, the spell is dismissed and you can’t cast it
again for 10 minutes. Unlike a normal Shield Block, you can use
the spell’s reaction against the magic missile spell.
Heightening the spell increases the Hardness.

Obviously there are (gratefully!) differences in the action economy ("Raise a Shield action", "Shield Block"). The hardness mechanic can be adapted to "absorbs x damage before dissipating". I just don't know what that would look like.