On Planetouched and Proficiencies

[Alabenson]

I was just curious, is there any consensus on whether a planetouched (i.e. aasimar or tiefling) would have inherent proficiency with martial weapons? Their creature type is listed as outsider, and outsiders are supposed to gain proficiency in martial weapons, but I haven't seen this definitively listed anywhere and was wondering if there is any consensus on the fact.

[DrMotives]

Going by a straight RAW reading, they have those proficiencies. The "lesser" version doesn't, as the race-as-pc write up doesn't include those, so they only get them by grace of outsider type. But then they pay a +1 LA for that plus immunity to "_ person" spells, so it seems reasonable to me.

[KillianHawkeye]

I've always given it to them. They get it from being Outsiders, nothing wrong with that.

[Darrin]

Yes, Aasimars and Tieflings gain proficiency with all martial weapons because they have the Outsider type. Aasimars also gain light/medium armor proficiency, while Tieflings gain just light armor proficiency, as those are the armors mentioned in their stat block. Lesser Planetouched don't have the Outsider type, so they don't gain any weapon/armor proficiencies. With a copacetic DM, you might be able to change type back to Outsider by taking the Otherworldly feat (PGtF p. 41) but by RAW, Aasimar and Tiefling are not valid races for that particular regional feat.

If you want to play an Aasimar/Tiefling with the Outsider type but no LA, you can use the Savage Progression versions (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

Neraphim (Planar Handbook) also gain proficiency with all martial weapons (including the annulat) due to the Outsider type. I can't find any reference to armor in the racial description, so they don't gain any armor proficiency.

[hamishspence]

I was just curious, is there any consensus on whether a planetouched (i.e. aasimar or tiefling) would have inherent proficiency with martial weapons? Their creature type is listed as outsider, and outsiders are supposed to gain proficiency in martial weapons, but I haven't seen this definitively listed anywhere and was wondering if there is any consensus on the fact.

Yes, Aasimars and Tieflings gain proficiency with all martial weapons because they have the Outsider type. Aasimars also gain light/medium armor proficiency, while Tieflings gain just light armor proficiency, as those are the armors mentioned in their stat block.



I thought that only applied to Outsiders with racial hit dice - with outsiders with only class levels, having their class level proficiencies instead of "Outsider Proficiencies".

The sample tiefling is a rogue and the sample aasimar a paladin - so they are wearing armours appropriate for a rogue and a paladin.

[Darrin]

I thought that only applied to Outsiders with racial hit dice - with outsiders with only class levels, having their class level proficiencies instead of "Outsider Proficiencies".


Under "Monsters and Class Levels", proficiencies is not listed as something a creature loses when it takes class levels. I don't see anything in the text that says a creature loses anything granted by its type by taking class levels. If you lose your racial HD, you lose the things it grants: BAB, saves, skill points. No mention of proficiencies. I'm not aware of any text that says you lose anything granted by your type. Overlapping proficiencies isn't a problem as far as the rules go. That happens any time you multiclass.



The sample tiefling is a rogue and the sample aasimar a paladin - so they are wearing armours appropriate for a rogue and a paladin.

Those are the only stat blocks we're given, so unless you're working from a different stat block, all Aasimar are proficient in light/medium armor, and all Tieflings are proficient in light armor.

[Endarire]

In Pathfinder, how do these things change? (That is, planetouched and proficiencies.)

[Alabenson]

It sounds like the general consensus is that the full planetouched do in fact gain martial weapon proficiencies (I never really questioned the lesser variants since they're humaniod and the argument in favor of the +1 LA versions hinged on their being outsiders).

[Psyren]

In Pathfinder, how do these things change? (That is, planetouched and proficiencies.)

They codified (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lhtm?Clarification-request-Do-AasimarsTiefling#12) the reading that hamishspence mentioned, i.e. you need outsider RHD to get the proficiencies. (Note the "staff response" to that post.)

[hamishspence]

I notice that all the Savage Species "outsider classes" specifically mention at the first level, the benefits of the proficiencies.

But the various Outsider playable races, don't include a "Proficient with all simple and martial weapons" section.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm

[TheNerfGuy]

The entries describing them in the Monster Manual do point out that they're 1st level Warriors, which does grant Armor and Shield proficiencies. I would discount that since it would be from a NPC class by RAW.

My own DM typically rules that the Native subtype Planetouched have would deny them Simple and Martial Weapon proficiency since they're not entirely Outsiders.

[hamishspence]

The entries describing them in the Monster Manual do point out that they're 1st level Warriors, which does grant Armor and Shield proficiencies. I would discount that since it would be from a NPC class by RAW.


I tend to think of it this way - if PC aasimar were intended to be proficient with all martial weapons - their "PC entry" would be like elves:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#elves

Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.

only modified:

Weapon Proficiency: Aasimar receive the Simple Weapon Proficiency feat, and Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for all martial weapons, as bonus feats.

[Malphegor]

Yeah, by RAW they seem to pop out of their parents fully knowing how to use martial weapons. Must make growing up a pain if little devil Timmy knows how to kill a person with a trident like an expert.

"I AM THE FORKMASTER!" - child with a wooden branch that's loosely in the shape of a fork, before stabbing a bully.

It probably wasn't intended, but short of an FAQ clarifying it, I suppose DM's discretion.

[Mato]

I was just curious, is there any consensusThis is GitP, there is never an agreeing consensus on anything. :smallsigh:
And fyi, following a consensus doesn't always mean you're following the rules.


Their creature type is listed as outsider, and outsiders are supposed to gain proficiency in martial weaponsYou also have your answer according to what the rules say. :smallsmile:

Wizards of the Coast also provided an official rules supplement that's worth checking.

The MM lists outsiders as having proficiency with all martial weapons. Does that mean that aasimar, tiefling and genasi PCs are automatically proficient with all martial weapons?
Yes.