Help me build Batman please.

[Khrysaes]

Hello,

So, I want to build batman, and the main thoughts I had were Darkstalker ranger for invisibility in darkness and Shadow monk for teleportation. Possibly Investigator rogue because it both fits batman and adds more stealthyness type things.

However, I have not decided upon anything and was hoping for some feedback. What do other people think?

Edit: My DM has allowed me to combine tiefling variants, namely, I can have a feral of whatever tiefling type, but cant have +3 dex. So Feral fierna tiefling is +2 dex, +1 wis.

[moonfly7]

Hello,

So, I want to build batman, and the main thoughts I had were Darkstalker ranger for invisibility in darkness and Shadow monk for teleportation. Possibly Investigator rogue because it both fits batman and adds more stealthyness type things.

However, I have not decided upon anything and was hoping for some feedback. What do other people think?

Edit: My DM has allowed me to combine tiefling variants, namely, I can have a feral of whatever tiefling type, but cant have +3 dex. So Feral fierna tiefling is +2 dex, +1 wis.

Definetly take monk levels, Batman shouldn't use melee weapons besides his fists.

[GooeyChewie]

Batman has a lot of different incarnations, and one character won’t accurately represent them all. I would say pick one iconic aspect of Batman and play it up, rather than trying to represent all aspects of Batman.

Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot? Go Assassination rogue, refluff your darts as Batarangs and take expertise in Intimidation.

The great detective? Divination Wizard, with high intelligence and trained in Investigation. Refluff your spells as his wide array of gadgets.

Trained by the League of Shadows? I think you’re on the right track with Shadow Monk.

Arkham video game series? Barbarian for the beat-‘em-up.

1960s Batman? Bard with maxed Strength and Tavern Brawler. Make sure to cast lots of illusions of POW and BAM and OOF and the like as you hit opponents. As with the Wizard, your other spells are all your Bat-equipment.

EDITS: To fix auto-correct-related typos.

[Zetakya]

Wasn't the whole point of the Batman to make bad people fear him? Conquest Paladin...

[Damon_Tor]

I think a mix of Artificer and Rogue is going to feel best. You'll want your main weapon to be a "Batarang", a dart with the returning weapon infusion.

Thief is a great subclass because Fast Hands make a "utility belt" playstyle viable. You can drop down and throw out a handful of caltrops or ball bearings with a minor action. Tossing Alchemists' Fire and Acid using fast hands should also be possible, but some DMs rule against this. Tavern Brawler is important not just because you want to have a viable unarmed attack (mostly for thematic purposes, frankly), but also because it gives you proficiency with improvised weapons, which is important for your Alchemist's Fire/Acid and Fast Hands combo. Inquisitive might offer more of a detective feel, however.

20 int plus rogue's expertise gets you your "world's greatest detective" combo, giving you the best investigation score you could hope for. Because you'll want to prioritize int, you'll want to choose Battlesmith as your artificer subclass so you can leave Dex at 14 and use Int as your attack stat. If you want you can name your Iron Defender "Robin". Send it in to melee while its adjacency to the enemy enables your sneak attack.

[Aranfan]

If you are willing to refluff the magic as gadgets and skill, Shadow Monk will get you almost everything Iconic to Batman. You might need to take Martial Adept for disarming attack if you want to disarm enemies with your batarangs though.

[Khrysaes]

I think a mix of Artificer and Rogue is going to feel best. You'll want your main weapon to be a "Batarang", a dart with the returning weapon infusion.

Thief is a great subclass because Fast Hands make a "utility belt" playstyle viable. You can drop down and throw out a handful of caltrops or ball bearings with a minor action. Tossing Alchemists' Fire and Acid using fast hands should also be possible, but some DMs rule against this. Tavern Brawler is important not just because you want to have a viable unarmed attack (mostly for thematic purposes, frankly), but also because it gives you proficiency with improvised weapons, which is important for your Alchemist's Fire/Acid and Fast Hands combo. Inquisitive might offer more of a detective feel, however.

20 int plus rogue's expertise gets you your "world's greatest detective" combo, giving you the best investigation score you could hope for. Because you'll want to prioritize int, you'll want to choose Battlesmith as your artificer subclass so you can leave Dex at 14 and use Int as your attack stat. If you want you can name your Iron Defender "Robin". Send it in to melee while its adjacency to the enemy enables your sneak attack.

While this is great, I liked the thought of the stealthy and investigative type.

So here is what I determined,

Race: Warforged Envoy
Integrated tools: Thieves tools
Ability scores, +1 con, +2 dex, or +1 con, dex, and wis, depending on if your DM lets you use both as dex or not.
Starting scores: 8, 15(16-17), 13(14), 11, 12(13) or 13, 13. A bit mad because of multiclass requirements, but if you dont care about warlock, after meeting 13 wis, you can focus on dex, int, and con. The parenthesis are after racial increases.
1st level: Ranger - can also be rogue, but I like the saves, proficiencies, and +2 HP from ranger. +1 skill for rogue.


In whatever order I think will be fun
3 Levels Stalker ranger - invisibility in darkness, hunters mark is thematic for tracking as well.
6 levels Shadow Monk - Teleport between spots of dim light and darkness 60ft, extra attack.
8 levels Rogue Inquisitor - Investigation skills.

The last 3 levels, well I was thinking 2 Warlock, 1 Ranger, but 3 rogue or 3 warlock works too.

3 rogue nets increased sneak attack, and reliable talent, which makes skills very stable.

2 warlock nets Eldritch blast and devil's sight. Hexblade would gain shield. Spells can be themed to be a part of the "utility belt" 3 warlock nets the same but gets the weapon, tome for more cantrips(utilities) and rituals, or the familiar(drone scout?) But I was thinking eldritch blast could be themed into the battarange.

1 ranger instead of 3 warlock for the ASI. Otherwise you only get 3. But you can teleport while invisible, so that is cool.

If possible, I want the Mariner fighting style from ranger. With warforged this makes my unarmored ac 12 + dex + proficiency. With monk my unarmored climb speed and swim speed = 45.

I dont know about ASI. Probably pick things that are useful. I would probably do 3 Dex, 1 wis, (or 2 dex, 1 Dex half feat, 1 wis Half feat), and mobile or something.

[Great Dragon]

Wasn't the whole point of the Batman to make bad people fear him? Conquest Paladin...

I always picture Batman as (V-Human)
Vengeance Paladin 5, with Shadow Monk 12, and Arcane Trickster Rogue 3.

Diviner Wizard? is interesting. Maybe Pal 3 Monk 11 and Wiz 6?

Artificer Wizard 6 - for more Gadgets.

But, yeah. Like GooeyChewie said: Pick one Batman style - and play it out.


You could probably make an entire party of different era/media Batman concepts.

Actually, yes.
They did this (kinda) in some of the newer Crisis-type series.
All kinds of Batman shenanigans! Most helping each other, with Owlman and a maybe another one (the version where Batman is super focused on locking up all the other Superheroes? - especially his Alternate self!) fighting against them!!

[Zetakya]

But, yeah. Like GooeyChewie said: Pick one Batman style - and play it out.

You could probably make an entire party of different era/media Batman concepts.

[Damon_Tor]

While this is great, I liked the thought of the stealthy and investigative type.

So here is what I determined,

Race: Warforged Envoy
Integrated tools: Thieves tools
Ability scores, +1 con, +2 dex, or +1 con, dex, and wis, depending on if your DM lets you use both as dex or not.
Starting scores: 8, 15(16-17), 13(14), 11, 12(13) or 13, 13. A bit mad because of multiclass requirements, but if you dont care about warlock, after meeting 13 wis, you can focus on dex, int, and con. The parenthesis are after racial increases.
1st level: Ranger - can also be rogue, but I like the saves, proficiencies, and +2 HP from ranger. +1 skill for rogue.


In whatever order I think will be fun
3 Levels Stalker ranger - invisibility in darkness, hunters mark is thematic for tracking as well.
6 levels Shadow Monk - Teleport between spots of dim light and darkness 60ft, extra attack.
8 levels Rogue Inquisitor - Investigation skills.

The last 3 levels, well I was thinking 2 Warlock, 1 Ranger, but 3 rogue or 3 warlock works too.

3 rogue nets increased sneak attack, and reliable talent, which makes skills very stable.

2 warlock nets Eldritch blast and devil's sight. Hexblade would gain shield. Spells can be themed to be a part of the "utility belt" 3 warlock nets the same but gets the weapon, tome for more cantrips(utilities) and rituals, or the familiar(drone scout?) But I was thinking eldritch blast could be themed into the battarange.

1 ranger instead of 3 warlock for the ASI. Otherwise you only get 3. But you can teleport while invisible, so that is cool.

If possible, I want the Mariner fighting style from ranger. With warforged this makes my unarmored ac 12 + dex + proficiency. With monk my unarmored climb speed and swim speed = 45.

I dont know about ASI. Probably pick things that are useful. I would probably do 3 Dex, 1 wis, (or 2 dex, 1 Dex half feat, 1 wis Half feat), and mobile or something.

That multiclassing kills your stats, not just because you're MAD, but because you are delaying/omitting ASIs. You're going to wind up with a Batman build without int, which is... unfortunate.

[Talionis]

Knowledge Cleric 2/Monk 1/ Darkstalker Ranger 5/Thief X

I like Knowledge Cleric 2 because you most likely have enough Wisdom to be a Ranger or Monk you won’t be able to have 18s in every Stat so you can still be smart with a low or average Intelligence. I found the extra casting levels was good for casting Ranger spells which feel more like gadgets. You still don’t have much magic in a build like this which feels right. Monk 1 is no Ki but decent unarmoered AC and damage unarmed. This damage later goes up from Sneak Attack.

Thief is very perfect for Batman. Second Story Work, fast hands. Lose Monk and get Use Magic Device. Extra Stealth. 2nd Story and Expertise in Athletics covers well for average Strength

Ranger is enough for Extra Attack and 2nd level spells.

[paladinn]

I'm sorry.. not to be disparaging, but some of these suggestions are kind of funny. Batman as a wizard?? Warforged???

I agree that Bats has had a lot of renditions over the decades, but let's look at the things that are common in every generation:

1. Batman is a fighter. He is considered one of the DCU's top fighter/martial artists. And he tracks. So some degree of fighter/monk/urban ranger. He's never shown any kind of Ki abilities; his "favored enemy" would be Gotham low-lifes and his "favored terrain" would be Gotham City. Paladin wouldn't work becuse he really doesn't smite anything.

2. Batman is a detective. He has been called the greatest detective of all time. He's usually the strategist of the JLA. That, to me, says Rogue Inqusitive or maybe Mastermind. Definitely a master of sneak attack.

3. With the gadgets and such at his command, one might be tempted to make him an artificer of some sort. But in more modern incarnations, he is merely a user of such gizmos; the real artificer would be Lucius Fox. Still, some skill with this might be appropriate.

What does all that look like in D&D terms?

[GlenSmash!]

Batman has a lot of different incarnations, and one character won’t accurately represent them all. I would say pick one iconic aspect of Batman and play it up, rather than trying to represent all aspects of Batman.

Criminals are a cowardly and superstitious lot? Go Assassination rogue, refluff your darts as Batarangs and take expertise in Intimidation.

The great detective? Divination Wizard, with high intelligence and trained in Investigation. Refluff your spells as his wide array of gadgets.

Trained by the League of Shadows? I think you’re on the right track with Shadow Monk.

Arkham video game series? Barbarian for the beat-‘em-up.

1960s Batman? Bard with maxed Strength and Tavern Brawler. Make sure to cast lots of illusions of POW and BAM and OOF and the like as you hit opponents. As with the Wizard, your other spells are all your Bat-equipment.

EDITS: To fix auto-correct-related typos.

This.

Pick out which aspects of Batman you want to bring to the forefront.

In a Justice League story, Batman is unlikely yo be punching the foe that is taking hits from Superman and Wonder Woman, he would be contributing with his intelligence and gadgets.

But in a Batman focused story he could be using his physicality to overwhelm low level crooks and and his agility to top stronger enemies like Bane or Killer Croc.

[GlenSmash!]

He's never shown any kind of Ki abilities

Question: what do you think Ki abilities look like to an outside observer?

[firelistener]

Acquiring a Cloak of the Bat magic item would fit well, regardless of class choice.

[Great Dragon]

Question: what do you think Ki abilities look like to an outside observer?

Depends on how Video Game /cartoon /anime you Run/play.

I suppose Ki-based strikes could be seen as displaying like MCU's Iron Fist.
Especially after a Monk's Unarmed Attacks are treated as Magical.

Not sure about the Ki based Shove or Trip.
These seem less obvious (to me) to an outside observer.

Same thing with a Paladin's Smite:
is there a bright flash of (white/gold/silver) Light each time they do that?

Each group plays this differently.

*****
Ok, sure - actual spells most likely have some kind of noticeable display, where reading the description is needed.

When casting a Spell: Obvious gestures and not whispered words of (Divine) power are already noticeable to those nearby.
I usually play that anyone more than 60 feet away can't identify (not the spell) anything being cast.
(But then, I don't require a Reaction to try and know what spell is being cast)

Spider Climb is obvious only when actually walking on a non-floor surface.

Everything within a mile that has LoS can most likely see the Fireball, even on a Bright Sunny Day.

Bless doesn't need to be noticed by anyone but those affected, really.

[DrLoveMonkey]

What level and in what style of campaign do you see this happening in? That would help a lot to get the feel right.

At level 2-3 rogue, monk or fighter would seem to fit a lot better, knocking out bandits and tossing ball bearings underfoot, at levels 18-19 wizard or artificer seems like a much better fit for JLA style bat-god.

Also in different settings, if it’s a campaign with heavy political intrigue the Barbarian punchout batman probably won’t be doing you any favours for high society Bruce Wayne by day and ninja infiltrator at night.

[zinycor]

Honestly, playing batman is more of an atittude thing more than anything, like appearing to always be ready for anything, being very brooding, having a tragic backstory, being sneaky. As long as you are those, you can play almost anything as Batman.

Personally, I would go V. Human, with the Alert feat, and the Noble Background. Mainly Shadow Monk for class, but As I said, any interpretation you take will probably be good.

[paladinn]

Why is everyone trying to give Batman magic? His whole "thing" is that he's a "normal human" with a lot of training.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see him as a cleric or a wizard or Especially not as warforged.

[zinycor]

Why is everyone trying to give Batman magic? His whole "thing" is that he's a "normal human" with a lot of training.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see him as a cleric or a wizard or Especially not as warforged.

Because on most settings the closest thing you get to batman's gadgets is magic.

[paladinn]

Because on most settings the closest thing you get to batman's gadgets is magic.

That's where an artificer comes in. Maybe an alchemist.

[GlenSmash!]

Why is everyone trying to give Batman magic? His whole "thing" is that he's a "normal human" with a lot of training.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see him as a cleric or a wizard or Especially not as warforged.

Because magic is often a substitute for technology on these type of comic book builds.

There just aren't enough rules for thermite, night vision goggles, hang gliders, iron man style power suits etc. So you refluff spells.

Edit: ninja'd

[zinycor]

That's where an artificer comes in. Maybe an alchemist.

Personally, am not familiar with those archetypes.

[DavidSh]

I thought Batman's superpower was being rich.

The Batman from the 1940s movie serial's style involved climbing (buildings, mostly) and punching (bad guys).

[paladinn]

Because magic is often a substitute for technology on these type of comic book builds.

There just aren't enough rules for thermite, night vision goggles, hang gliders, iron man style power suits etc. So you refluff spells.

Those things would be magic Items, not spells..

And Batman only wore "Iron Man style power suits" to fight guys like Superman. Definitely not his normal gig.

His cape could be a cloak of protection.. Batarangs are shuriken now.

And in a medieval/fantasy setting, he would neither have nor need a lot of tech anyway. Batman's not defined by his stuff.

[GlenSmash!]

Those things would be magic Items, not spells..

And Batman only wore "Iron Man style power suits" to fight guys like Superman. Definitely not his normal gig.

I was referencing to Magic as a Tech substitute on the whole, not powered suits for Batman specifically, heck how would you do Green Lantern's power ring as anything but spells despite the fact that it is Tech.


His cape could be a cloak of protection.. Batarangs are shuriken now. Shuriken aren't a think in 5e. Do you mean darts?


And in a medieval/fantasy setting, he would neither have nor need a lot of tech anyway. Batman's not defined by his stuff.

If Batman was transported to a medieval this is true, but a character based on Batman, emulating how he solves problems on a day to day basis in the DC Universe, but emulating those things in a D&D could easily justify spells as a tech substitute.

You're the only one who appears to think it's anathema.

[zinycor]

Those things would be magic Items, not spells..

And Batman only wore "Iron Man style power suits" to fight guys like Superman. Definitely not his normal gig.

His cape could be a cloak of protection.. Batarangs are shuriken now.

And in a medieval/fantasy setting, he would neither have nor need a lot of tech anyway. Batman's not defined by his stuff.

According to you, others may have a different idea of what Batman is.

[Zetakya]

Batman is totally defined by his stuff. In a setting with magic, Batman would assess the uses of Magic, and employ the best spellcasters money could buy to provide the requisite magic items, were he himself unable to utilise magic directly.

[paladinn]

Batman is totally defined by his stuff. In a setting with magic, Batman would assess the uses of Magic, and employ the best spellcasters money could buy to provide the requisite magic items, were he himself unable to utilise magic directly.

Ok, go ahead and make him an archmage. But he won't be Batman.

[zinycor]

Ok, go ahead and make him an archmage. But he won't be Batman.

That's Like... Your opinion man...

[Damon_Tor]

Because magic is often a substitute for technology on these type of comic book builds.

There just aren't enough rules for thermite, night vision goggles, hang gliders, iron man style power suits etc. So you refluff spells.

There are absolutely rules for those things, and it's why so many people in this thread are suggesting an artificer as one of his classes.

[zinycor]

There are absolutely rules for those things, and it's why so many people in this thread are suggesting an artificer as one of his classes.

What book is the artificer from?

[paladinn]

There are absolutely rules for those things, and it's why so many people in this thread are suggesting an artificer as one of his classes.

But Batman is not the actual artificer; he just uses the stuff (for the most part). He's not Iron Man.

[paladinn]

That's Like... Your opinion man...

And you have yours too.. What's your point?

I've read comics for 51 years, and I've never seen Batman do anything like cast a spell.

[Great Dragon]

What book is the artificer from?

IiRC - its in the Unearthed Arcana on the Wizards of the Coast site.

Might also be found in Eberron, but I can be mistaken, since I don't do that campaign.


I thought Batman's superpower was being rich.

Heh.
Actually, for some of the tRPGs - his actual power was called Outsmart.

He also had what was typically called a Gadget Pool, where the Player had to decide what to 'make' for their Batman to use on the current mission, preferably small enough to fit into the Utility Belt. Or at least easily carried.
The Batmobile, Batboat, and Batjet were a permanent drain on the Gadget Pool.
Most GMs allowed - like - 10 Batarangs for free.

Bruce being Rich was something that could be bought by putting Creation Points into Resources.
Of course the tRPG versions of Batman never got anywhere close to Billionaires,
but hey - even 25 million is good enough in most cases.


*****
But, Yeah. For D&D - my best guess, without magic casting classes:

V-Human. Keen Mind
Noble Background.
Thief Rogue 8 / Shadow Monk 12

For hard core investigating: maybe Inquisitive Rogue
For JLA - go Mastermind Rogue

Batman is MAD, so most likely has more Feats then ASIs.
(4) Alert. (8) Observant (12) Skulker (16) Dungeon Delver (19) Mobility (?)

Batman as a Battlemaster Fighter, instead of Monk - is also a possibility.

@paladinn: thanks for reminding me about Lucius Fox.
Most definitely an Artificer Wizard - and/or - Forge Cleric.

[zinycor]

And you have yours too.. What's your point?


The point is to advise something the op might thinks relates to batman, not something that you or me might think is batman

[paladinn]

The point is to advise something the op might thinks relates to batman, not something that you or me might think is batman

So we're both advising.. We just think differently:cool:

[Nagog]

Actually, yes.
They did this (kinda) in some of the newer Crisis-type series.
All kinds of Batman shenanigans! Most helping each other, with Owlman and a maybe another one (the version where Batman is super focused on locking up all the other Superheroes? - especially his Alternate self!) fighting against them!!

Which comic was that? I'm very interested in reading it, as I really enjoy the Batman/Owlman rivalry.

As for the 5e build? I'd imagine him as VHuman Shadow Monk/Inquisitive Rogue, perhaps with a touch here and there of Artificer for gadgets. I think there are 2 things to really hash out beforehand, first being able to deal Sneak Attack damage with Unarmed Strikes (I've suggested in another thread to tweak Monks in allowing their unarmed strikes to count as weapons for logistics sake), and the all-important fact that Batman is non-lethal as a defining feature throughout every incarnation. This can usually be waived considering without Monk levels, the unarmed strike is often seen as nonlethal damage, so just let the DM know that's your goal beforehand and 9 times out of 10 they'll roll with it (also because recurring villains are fun, but is harder to make happen if they're dead)

[Damon_Tor]

But Batman is not the actual artificer; he just uses the stuff (for the most part). He's not Iron Man.

That varies depending on the writer and the needs of the story. Regardless, I feel like it fits the artificer better than wizard when it comes to modeling his gadgets, even if you want to fluff it as if he's getting the gadgets from someone else.

Of course, the ideal solution would be to get someone else on the team to be the artificer, and equip you with all their infusions. Or convince the DM to let you have an off-screen Artificer henchman.

[Great Dragon]

Which comic was that? I'm very interested in reading it, as I really enjoy the Batman/Owlman rivalry.

Actually, I believe that it was one of the newer Cartoon series staring Batman that this happened.
I only saw parts of it, and didn't catch the title, though.
Sorry.

I'm not sure where the 'Reverse' Dimension was introduced: Cartoons or Comics.

Owlman was the only character I liked from here.

Powerman (Superman) was basically a neigh-unstoppable thug
- although Lex as an actual Good Guy was interesting.

Zoom (Flash) had an interesting story, but he died fairly quickly (heh) in the story.

I don't remember what the Evil Wonder Woman was called, but she was a hardcore true Amazon.

[zinycor]

Actually, I believe that it was one of the newer Cartoon series staring Batman that this happened.
I only saw parts of it, and didn't catch the title, though.
Sorry.

I'm not sure where the 'Reverse' Dimension was introduced: Cartoons or Comics.

Owlman was the only character I liked from here.

Powerman (Superman) was basically a neigh-unstoppable thug
- although Lex as an actual Good Guy was interesting.

Zoom (Flash) had an interesting story, but he died fairly quickly (heh) in the story.

I don't remember what the Evil Wonder Woman was called, but she was a hardcore true Amazon.

You are thinking of the crime syndicate, an evil version of the justice league from a paralel universe. Very cool group.

[DrLoveMonkey]

Because on most settings the closest thing you get to batman's gadgets is magic.

Yeah that "problem" if you consider it to be a problem, which for this case we do, is twofold. For one there's classes like artifacer and wizard who have spells that do really emulate the gadgets that Batman has, even versions of Batman like Steampunk Batman. The other is that the equipment list is very conservative for a fantasy setting. The biggest items on it are probably acid and alchemist fire, there's no smoke bombs, or glue bombs or anything.

Also what there is usually doesn't have rules for how to use it, or the rules are kind of lukewarm and will not really give you that feeling. Ball bearings, for example, classic rogue escape or trip hazard. Except they're only a DC 10 dex save to run through, need to be used on flat, hard ground, and can just be walked around or through costing between 0 and 10 feet of movement.


Whereas if you're a caster you've got all sorts of tricks, sleep pellets as the sleep spell, web as the glue bombs, shocking grasp for the taser, frozen orb for the freeze bombs, enhance ability and/or guidance for any feat of strength, cunning or perception. You've even got locate object and scry for all those tracer trackers, and contingency for the old remove-the-mask-teargas trick.

But that's why I think it's a bit level dependent. At low level even a wizard can't just cast spider climb all day so any feats of climbing will need actual checks, and the equipment stuff that you do have isn't so lacklustre. When you get to the basically JLA territory of infiltrating some devil's fortress in Hell itself though, you're going to need spells.

[Great Dragon]

I never did understand why anyone Proficient with Unarmed Attacks were not treated as natural weapons.

Light only means that both fists can be used with TWF.

Finesse only means not being dependant on Str for Attacks and Damage.

Tavern Brawler only ever does 1d4 + Str/Dex mod.

TWF is pointless to a Monk, since they get that normally in 5e, and an extra with a Ki point, when they attack.

Some would say that allowing Sneak Attack to be applied is O.P, but that's not true if anyone can choose to do the same to them, or their Friends.

Turn about is fair play, after all.

Also, DMs enforcing Class based Abilities to being available only for those levels of said Class.

Just because you're an ECL 20 PC, does not mean that you get all the benefits of a 20th level Character in all your Class/es. Your stuck with what level you're at in that Class/Subclass. IMO, this should also apply to Cantrips, but I know that's a losing battle, for me.


You are thinking of the crime syndicate, an evil version of the justice league from a paralel universe. Very cool group.

Ah. Seems they had their own series:
The Crime Syndicate are a team of evil counterparts to the Justice League, existing on Earth 3.
Their original membership included
Atomica (?), Deathstorm (Firestorm), Grid (?), Johnny Quick (Flash), the Martian Manhunter (duh) of Earth-3, The Outsider (?), Owlman (Batman), Power Ring (Green Lantern), Sea King (Aquaman), Superwoman (Wonder Woman), and Ultraman (Superman).
*********** ***********
Zoom was Flash from yet another dimension.

Powerman was also from an (yet another?) Alternate Dimension.

[furby076]

Go 4 levels of mystic (nomad), then split mastermind rogue with monk. Refluff the mystic abilities, but they will essentially let you do cool things that batman can do (there and back again to constantly be in different area, wind draft to let you fly short distances, psychic hammer to knock down opponents a few feet, and way way more). Basically, mystic is like the answer to any build :D

Also, the find creature and item abilites help with that detective work

[paladinn]

Ah. Seems they had their own series:
The Crime Syndicate are a team of evil counterparts to the Justice League, existing on Earth 3.
Their original membership included Atomica (?), Deathstorm (Firestorm), Grid (?), Johnny Quick (Flash), the Martian Manhunter (duh) of Earth-3, The Outsider (?), Owlman (Batman), Power Ring (Green Lantern), Sea King (Aquaman), Superwoman (Wonder Woman), and Ultraman (Superman).

Grid was the Earth 3 equivalent of Cyborg. In fact, Grid took over Cyborg's body. Kind of a sentient virus.

I'm such a geek..lol

[Great Dragon]

Grid was the Earth 3 equivalent of Cyborg. In fact, Grid took over Cyborg's body. Kind of a sentient virus.

I'm such a geek..lol
That's ok.
While I'm just an old nerd, I can understand.

and Thanks!

As for the Turn the Hero Evil trope.
Kinda tired of it. Especially in tRPGs.
Even Batman vs Owlman.

Fighting yourself is kinda pointless, in the end (which is one of the main reasons that bringing in friends is needed)

Now, fighting someone else with a similar skill set, but doesn't think like you?
Much more interesting, to me.

Just make a new Villain.


*****
Cyborg.. Warforged (Envoy?)
Or 3x Iron Half-Golem?

Most people would say Artificer, but Cyborg rarely builds things to use. Most of his "Permanent" items was made by his dad.

How about War Magic Wizard?
With Semi-Integrated energy weapons?

Cy can modify/repair all his weapons and equipment, so Proficiency in Smithing Tools and Tinkers Tools.