If you could be almost anything...

[False God]

So my DM to give me something that lets me "true polymorph" (as in, I get all the features, EX, SU, SLA, etc..., the HD and mental stats, ie: I pull out the stat block and play that) into anything from size colossal or smaller, except that it can't be an angel/archon, a demon/devil, dragon, or an old-one (aberrations are still acceptable, just specifically not old gods and the like). The duration can be permanent (not a permanent magical effect, like, I am now that creature forever) if I so choose, but I lose all my class features while polymorphed (I can gain new ones later tho).
I'm a 13th level rogue for reference.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of things outside of angels, demons, dragons and old-ones are rather limited as I often run epic high-magic, high-fantasy games.

So what are your best and favorite choices (please feel free to break the game):

Best 'Your DM Will Probably Hit You With a Book' Form?

Best Permanent Form?

Best Temporary Form?

[Kalkra]

You get the RHD and the mental stats, even if the mental stats are lower? What about LA, particularly for monsters that don't have any? Also, what about abominations?

[False God]

You get the RHD and the mental stats, even if the mental stats are lower? What about LA, particularly for monsters that don't have any? Also, what about abominations?

Yes, I pull the stat block out and play that until the effect ends, or forever if I choose. Abominations are acceptable provided they're not "old-gody".

[Vizzerdrix]

The mighty flumpf is always an option.
(Hey I figured out how to do colors on my tablet!)

All joking aside, what is the optimization level of your group, and what is your preferred party roll?

Whatever you take, you most likely will want to drain off the rhd for class levels.

[False God]

The mighty flumpf is always an option.
(Hey I figured out how to do colors on my tablet!)

All joking aside, what is the optimization level of your group, and what is your preferred party roll?

Whatever you take, you most likely will want to drain off the rhd for class levels.

Fairly high optimization, both on the party side and the DM side. And party role is up in the air. I'm the party sneak at the moment, but I can play almost anything and the party doesn't really care.

[LordBlades]

For pure optimization I'd go with a Black Ethergaunt for the 'casts as a 17th level wizard' part.

[Kalkra]

There's a lot you can do as a Hagunemnon.

[StevenC21]

Hecatoncheires.

[Quertus]

Sounds like your GM is trying to encourage you to expand your monster knowledge outside your safe zone.

I would have numerous forms statted out, ready to go. Maybe not the best, but things that sound fun, and would be difficult to play otherwise. Losing Int would be the biggest problem for me.

The obvious answer for a unique "mage" unit is a Beholder. But, for AoE effects, consider things like a Multi-Headed Medusa, or a Multi-Headed Illithid. Actual spell casting, via Titan, Black Ethergaunt, etc, is probably pretty good, too.

For a beat stick, the Tarrasque is pretty hilarious.

For survival, a construct form could be nice. See if your GM will let you get around the Int problems by giving yourself a starting instruction like "attack foes for 4 rounds, then turn back".

Animals are usually underestimated. A Paragon Tiger of Legend, for example, would be a lot stronger than it looks.

Wishes! Get wishes! Efreeti - of advanced HD. Get a blood sample from yourself. Shift to a form with Spellcasting. Create Simulacra. Get +5 innate bonus to all stats.

Look for forms with cool movement capabilities, like flight or burrowing, and add them to your toolkit. The… Delver(?) can make some nice tunnels, iirc.

And don't forget to pick at least one aquatic form, just in case.

[White Blade]

Titan - Fantastic saves, fantastic hit points, SLAs that range from “Good” to “Gate”, great BAB and amazing stats of every sort, rogue level skills.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Strictly speaking, the restrictions given do allow a bunch of major outsider categories - Eladrin and Yugoloths for starters. The latter aren't particularly potent IIRC, but a Tulani Eladrin is no slouch.

Anything with high level casting is obviously good. Elder Brain, Black Ethergaunt, Formian Queen, Elemental Weird, Corpse Tearer... High-tier Modrons (from the Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a&pf=true)) have both cleric and sorcerer casting at 20th, which I think may be unique among monsters. Also they're Modrons and therefore hilarious.

[Blackhawk748]

I mean, the good Old Beholder is pretty nice

[False God]

Hecatoncheires.

HAHAHAHAA I didn't know this was a thing and I find it hilarious.


...High-tier Modrons (from the Manual of the Planes Web Enhancement here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010921a&pf=true)) have both cleric and sorcerer casting at 20th, which I think may be unique among monsters. Also they're Modrons and therefore hilarious.

And here I thought Modrons were always just those goofy little ones. Holy crud those are some ridiculous things.


Sounds like your GM is trying to encourage you to expand your monster knowledge outside your safe zone.
He has explicitly said as much, and that's why I'm here.


I would have numerous forms statted out, ready to go. Maybe not the best, but things that sound fun, and would be difficult to play otherwise.
This is how I typoically play druids and Master Transmogrifists, so it's something I do already.


The obvious answer for a unique "mage" unit is a Beholder. But, for AoE effects, consider things like a Multi-Headed Medusa, or a Multi-Headed Illithid. Actual spell casting, via Titan, Black Ethergaunt, etc, is probably pretty good, too.
I'd have to check if templates are ok. I'm pretty sure he'd allow lycanthropes given past gaming history, but I'm not sure about multi-heading things that aren't normally multi-headed (like hydras and stuff).


For a beat stick, the Tarrasque is pretty hilarious.
I honestly thought about it, if only because I've never actually fought a Tarrasque in any game ever, so if nothing else I'd become one.

I think ultimately, it'll come down to "do I have to take it straight from the book, or can I invent a monster?" because while getting wishes and 20th level casting is fun and all, I'm also looking for things that will just be mildly entertaining. I considered asking if I could be Optimus Prime.


I mean, the good Old Beholder is pretty nice
I know right? That's why this is a bit of a two-part question, I mean on the one hand, what's insane and game-breaking that I don't know about, and also what's just fun and silly that other people enjoy. Stomping around as a Tarrasque for a while seems amusing. As does being an epic monstrosity with a hundred attacks.

[Endarire]

What about a Kung-Fu Panda?

[False God]

What about a Kung-Fu Panda?

I suspect my DM would probably allow it. But as much as I actually love playing Monks, I find 3.5's monks really lame compared to their Pathfinder and 5E counterparts. Mostly because there is so little kung fu in them. Of the few things this DM actually bans it's Psionic classes, so I can't even power-op one either.

[Mike Miller]

I suspect my DM would probably allow it. But as much as I actually love playing Monks, I find 3.5's monks really lame compared to their Pathfinder and 5E counterparts. Mostly because there is so little kung fu in them. Of the few things this DM actually bans it's Psionic classes, so I can't even power-op one either.

Just out of curiosity, why does he ban psionics? He seems to be allowing a lot of other nonsense... Psionics is a fine subsystem.

[Kalkra]

The Tarrasque has an INT of 3. I'd assume that's a deal-breaker for you. Also, I think it's a unique creature, which would probably also be a problem.

[False God]

Just out of curiosity, why does he ban psionics? He seems to be allowing a lot of other nonsense... Psionics is a fine subsystem.

I have asked him that very question, he just doesn't like it. *shrug*


The Tarrasque has an INT of 3. I'd assume that's a deal-breaker for you. Also, I think it's a unique creature, which would probably also be a problem.
As a permanent effect definitely yes. As something shorter, probably not. But there are plenty of other "big melee beat sticks" to pick from so no big deal. I'm not sure if the unique creature is an issue for my DM.

[magic9mushroom]

Hecatoncheires is probably out because of "no old ones/old gods" - it's an Abomination, a Divine Rank 0 creature left over from creation. Sarrukhs are in the same boat, otherwise I'd recommend that.

Gibbering Orb and Hagunemnon would be my picks. Hagunemnon may have issues if you want to actually play it, though, because its statblock is literally not finished (its SQ "immunities" and "regeneration 50" are not explained).

A gibbering orb is the Epic version of a beholder, with 24 eye rays (limit five per target per round, but no angle limitations) and much stronger effects on them like Dominate Monster, Disjunction, Implosion and Polymorph Any Object. Also, you can eat things and cast their SLAs or spells.

A hagunemnon is a super-shapeshifter that can assume four arbitrary (Ex) monster abilities at a time and change them up every round. Not quite Pun-Pun, but close.

[Endarire]

Pun-Pun doesn't seem very old for a deity.

More seriously, however, what sort of experience do you want with this character?

[Mr Adventurer]

Can you use the power more than once?

You said you would be able to gain new class features once changed - how would this work? Do you take the creature's RHD and LA and level up normally from there?

If you stay in one form for e.g. a year and gain 5 character levels (or whatever class features you gain as you mention), then change back, what happens to the levels or features you gained?

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about a nice chronotryn?

[Saintheart]

Midgard Dwarf, build ALL the things.

[False God]

Can you use the power more than once?
I have 3 charges. I don't know if they recharge under XYZ circumstances or not.


You said you would be able to gain new class features once changed - how would this work? Do you take the creature's RHD and LA and level up normally from there?
Basically yes. I earn no XP until the party catches up to whatever that number is. I recognize that number is typically an unreasonable bar to reach on anything good. So I'm partly looking for something that "If I was this thing forever, it would be fine for me to never see another drop of XP."


If you stay in one form for e.g. a year and gain 5 character levels (or whatever class features you gain as you mention), then change back, what happens to the levels or features you gained?
My assumption is they go away. But I haven't asked this specific question.


More seriously, however, what sort of experience do you want with this character?

I'd actually been pretty satisfied with being a rather basic Rogue/Swashbucker. It fit the adventure trope, it's a theme I'm good at playing and a concept I enjoy. Unfortunately we're at that point in 3.5 where if you don't use magic you start to fall behind (and I'm the only non-magic user and as I said, we're all fairly good optimizers) and we've got a wizard (conjureer) and a druid already (3-man party). No cleric, but I played that a couple games ago and I'm not terribly interested in it again.

I typically build much more high-powered characters than I'm currently running, which is both why the DM gave me this thing and why he limited me out of the given creature categories.

So I suppose at the end of the day I'm looking for something that can "keep up with the Jones'", but something outside my usual area of entertainment (I've played demons, dragons and angels before).


Hecatoncheires is probably out because of "no old ones/old gods" - it's an Abomination, a Divine Rank 0 creature left over from creation. Sarrukhs are in the same boat, otherwise I'd recommend that.
A fair point on the former, though we've encountered the latter in sessions long past, so it's potentially a possibility, ridiculous shenanigans included.


Gibbering Orb and Hagunemnon would be my picks. Hagunemnon may have issues if you want to actually play it, though, because its statblock is literally not finished (its SQ "immunities" and "regeneration 50" are not explained).

A gibbering orb is the Epic version of a beholder, with 24 eye rays (limit five per target per round, but no angle limitations) and much stronger effects on them like Dominate Monster, Disjunction, Implosion and Polymorph Any Object. Also, you can eat things and cast their SLAs or spells.

A hagunemnon is a super-shapeshifter that can assume four arbitrary (Ex) monster abilities at a time and change them up every round. Not quite Pun-Pun, but close.
I've considered resolving the limited uses I have with looking for a shapechanger, but I've yet to find one that's particularly appealing. Why have limited polymorphs when you can have unlimited polymorphs?

[Malphegor]

I'd second Midgard Dwarf. Basically, they're dwarven outsiders, said to have been the smiths of the gods (suggested they're the ones that built mjolnir and etc), who have a racial ability to ignore spell requirements when crafting stuff (kinda like a warlock does but at much lower level). And become small animals at will as a standard action.

(they also have a really rad bestow curse thing auto-given on anyone who wrongs them, but it's once per year and thus really isn't something you're doing often. I do like it though, a dwarf so enraged with someone's actions they swear an oath that works with unlimited distance with a decent DC.)

[Vizzerdrix]

Why not mind flayer? Get some HD drained (they start with 8, and a +7LA), then grab levels of illithid savant (in Savage Species). You gain abilities by eating things.

[Particle_Man]

Plants can be fun. Maybe a Treant to get your Tolkien freak on?

[Celestia]

I'd have to check if templates are ok. I'm pretty sure he'd allow lycanthropes given past gaming history, but I'm not sure about multi-heading things that aren't normally multi-headed (like hydras and stuff).
That's unfortunate, otherwise I'd suggest a multi-headed beholder.

[Remuko]

That's unfortunate, otherwise I'd suggest a multi-headed beholder.

how...would that even work? Theyre nothing but head. Is this like a Magneton from Pokemon situation? lol

[Vizzerdrix]

how...would that even work? Theyre nothing but head. Is this like a Magneton from Pokemon situation? lol

Ooooh! Multi headed brain in a jar! I bet that would be sweet!

[Particle_Man]

how...would that even work? Theyre nothing but head. Is this like a Magneton from Pokemon situation? lol

Fractal Beholders. Every Eye on a stalk is actually another Beholder.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

That's unfortunate, otherwise I'd suggest a multi-headed beholder.


how...would that even work? Theyre nothing but head. Is this like a Magneton from Pokemon situation? lol

More like Koffing evolving into Weezing, I would think.

[Elkad]

Fractal Beholders. Every Eye on a stalk is actually another Beholder.

If they lost a size category with each generation (and we don't go past Fine, because RAW), that's only a million eye-stalks. Perfectly reasonable.

[Celestia]

More like Koffing evolving into Weezing, I would think.
This was the original intention, but ...


Fractal Beholders. Every Eye on a stalk is actually another Beholder.
I find this idea absolutely hilarious.

[False God]

If they lost a size category with each generation (and we don't go past Fine, because RAW), that's only a million eye-stalks. Perfectly reasonable.

Maybe Beholders secretly reproduce by budding? Each eye-stalk is really a baby beholder, when separated it's like a starfish.

[Celestia]

Maybe Beholders secretly reproduce by budding? Each eye-stalk is really a baby beholder, when separated it's like a starfish.
This is also hilarious.

[Remuko]

Fractal Beholders. Every Eye on a stalk is actually another Beholder.


Maybe Beholders secretly reproduce by budding? Each eye-stalk is really a baby beholder, when separated it's like a starfish.

Yes. All of this lol

[ekarney]

Honestly, seeing as it's pretty likely the other party members aren't celestials/old ones/dragons then it'd be a good idea just to turn into them if they have neat class features. If not you could always just commit identity theft, whatever floats your boat really.

[Vizzerdrix]

Honestly, seeing as it's pretty likely the other party members aren't celestials/old ones/dragons then it'd be a good idea just to turn into them if they have neat class features. If not you could always just commit identity theft, whatever floats your boat really.

Op calls those out as not being options.

[False God]

Honestly, seeing as it's pretty likely the other party members aren't celestials/old ones/dragons then it'd be a good idea just to turn into them if they have neat class features. If not you could always just commit identity theft, whatever floats your boat really.

I was considering the Greater Doppleganger for exactly that reason.


Op calls those out as not being options.

I think the "them" in his statement was "the other party members".

[D+1]

Plants can be fun. Maybe a Treant to get your Tolkien freak on?

Shambling Mound