Arcane Trickster - Acquiring the bare necessities

[Eldariel]

So I ended up running a level 3 Arcane Trickster (premade) at a Con and kinda ended up liking the character and planning its future progression. It's not a full caster but still something, and it's fun to work with the underdog every now and then. Now, the big choice is of course, which non-illusion/enchantment spells to get at each spell level. The character is a (non-variant) Human Arcane Trickster with (Street) Urchin background and:

11 Str
16 Dex
13 Con
16 Int
14 Wis
14 Cha

There were two cantrips and two first level spells known (Minor Illusion, Mage Hand; Silent Image, Disguise Self), which was probably because she hadn't had time to learn more yet. In-story, she learnt a smattering of magic from a rescuee between two steps of the adventure path. Skills are the usual: Deception, Insight, Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics, Stealth, Investigate, something. She wasn't trained in Perception for some reason.


Anyways, there are some obvious pitfalls here and I'm thinking of the spell progression. First of all, how to acquire:
- Darkvision or some way to act properly in mundane darkness. It's still a Rogue we're talking about here so disadvantage is extra-awful, and darkness is the best time to do stuff. She's a human so is she forced to waste her 2nd level open spell on Darkvision or is there some broader solution to this problem? Assume, for a second, that the other party members can't be relied upon.
- Flight. To go to places she shouldn't be, the ability to fly would obviously be crucial. However, level 12 is an awful far away and there are so many 3rd level spells vying for the slot anyways that some other solution to flight would be dandy. Is there a way to fly even long enough to get over barricades/to the other side of a crag/over a wall other than the fly spell? As above.

I was looking at Misty Step as the 2nd level spell and maybe Counterspell or Dispel Magic as the 3rd level one (Dispel Magic just seems indispensable as a means to interact with magical effects in place and to try and bypass magical traps/protections/etc.). Thought about Haste but it feels a tad risky and while extremely powerful, I find more need for auxiliary angles of attack than for more combat power. Booming Blade and eventual Shadow Blade (does the innate Advantage in dim light negate Disadvantage for being in poor vision, btw?) combined with all the usual stuff. Of course, I'd want some AOE spells that target enemy saves other than Wisdom (so Dex and Con) to attack various kinds of enemies from different angles particularly when AC is a difficult target. Web seemed good but Misty Steps is just too much better; maybe Grease as the 1st level spell? As for attacking Con, no clue there. Some of the cantrips could do it, I suppose, but the effect wouldn't be all that.

In short, I'm trying to find a way to tread the tightrope between maintaining maximal out-of-combat ability to get to places and act where others can't, while still maintaining sufficient combat versatility to get **** done against any kind of opposition. Obviously not above using simple attacks (Booming Blade seems obvious) where that's the best way to go. I was thinking of asking for the DM to introduce feats and get the Ritual Caster to get around needing to spend a spell slot on Find Familiar (Bat or Owl for nightvision would at least help with scouting), while also providing all sorts of utility in Detect Magic/Tiny Hut/Phantom Steed (culminating in Contact Other Plane as an auxiliary angle of information gathering).

[bendking]

If your DM doesn't allow feats, consider a dip in Wizard (Blade Singer).
Although, I would say if you're going for a Blade Singer dip you're better off making it a split because otherwise, you'll be delaying your spell levels quite a bit.

I recently theorycrafted an Arcane Tricketer/Blade Singer build of my own:


Progression: R1, R2, W1, R3, W2, W3, W4, R4, W5, R5 | W6, R6, R7, R8, R9, R10, W7, W8, W9, W10
Spells:

Cantrips:
Level 3 - Minor Illusion, Origami, Booming Blade
Level 4 - Mage Hand, Message, Green-Flame Blade

1st-level and above:
Level 3 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Detect Magic, Expeditious Retreat
Level 4 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud
Level 5 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
Level 6 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility
Level 7 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility, Levitate, Mirror Image
Level 8 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud, Disguise Self
Level 9 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility, Suggestion, Mirror Image
| Counterspell, Fireball

Stats:
STR - 8
DEX - 17 (+2)
CON - 13
INT - 16 (+1)
WIS - 10
CHA - 10

Feats:
Level 7 - Mobile
Level 8 - Resilient/War Caster
Level 12 - Elven Accuracy/+DEX
Level 16 - +DEX
Level 20 - +INT

[Lyracian]

You say you played the character a con[vention] but are carrying on with them in a regular game?

If you want dark-vision either remake them as a Half-elf or look at multi-class with Shadow Sorcerer/ Gloom stalker Ranger. It will all depend on what level you will finish playing the character and how much you need something.

I do find that First level spell at class level 3 annoying since you can not replace it with anything (from any school) later like you can with other spells.


Find Familiar is good unless you will get Ritual Caster Feat or Wizard Levels.
Shield is nice defense but competes with Uncanny Dodge for your reaction
Feather Fall gives you an emergency escape but will not be used very often.


Level 2 Spells
I like Web and Misty Step. The other spell is Darkness once you have blindsense (level 14 I think) if you are a melee fighter.

Level 3 Spells
My preference is Haste or Fly. Counterspell works depending on how your DM rules identifying spells.


You should read the AT Guide for other ideas ~ http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549828-Magique-Filou-The-Arcane-Trickster-s-Guide

[Keravath]

If you are remaking the character from the convention for home play then I would suggest taking the perception skill. A rogue without perception is a rogue that will sometime, somewhere, run into big issues since perception is essential for finding traps or noticing hidden creatures/objects (doors etc).

Most rogues I have played value it so highly that they take expertise in stealth and perception at first level.

As for darkvision, goggles of the night is an uncommon magic item that grants 60' darkvision. On the other hand, and perhaps even better for rogue that wants to operate in darkness then two levels of warlock will get you Devil's Sight which lets you see perfectly in anything considered darkness (including magical). This is also very useful for a rogue since darkvision used in darkness give disadvantage on perception checks since you just can't see as well as if it was lit ... unless you have Devils sight.

However, the easiest way to get darkvision is one level of shadow sorcerer. Perhaps, more synergistic with a ranged rogue would be three levels of Gloomstalker ranger or 5 levels if you want extra attack. The great stats on the character open up a wide range of mutliclassing options.

Finally, the character looks very good for playing at a table at home but due to the stats it wouldn't be legal for play in adventurers league for example (they are way above what is possible with point buy). You might need to get your DM to approve the stats as ok for their game.

[Copper_Dragon]

Maybe recreate the character as an eladrin?


Darkvision? check
Misty Step? check (somewhat limited and not as great as actual flight, but recharges on a short rest and available a lot earlier than 2nd level spells)
Stat bonuses in the right ability scores

[Eldariel]

Sadly the character background, race, story, etc. are staying. I can only change some of the more mechanical aspects, but mostly make choices for where to go from here. Obviously if I had my way, I'd just go with variant Human, get some featrickery going, use magic items to solve vision issues and go from there. Or just go straight Wizard, but meh. Mechanically Elf would be a nice option too, but ultimately far as her character goes, we're talking about a very human character so it's rather impossible to switch race without throwing her character out of the window as well.

I'm thinking of the alternative of just going Rogue 3/Wizard 17 (see if the DM accepts Bladesinger for a Human). As it stands, I'm leaning towards getting Ritual Caster and maybe going:
1. Fog Cloud
2. Misty Step
3. Dispel Magic
4. Polymorph

Of course, Polymorph would only be castable once per day and so late that it hardly matters, but it would still definitely be nice. I guess there's no way aside from items to get extra spells per day for a top level?

[Finieous]

I have a (variant) human arcane trickster as my convention character. He's 11th level now.

First question, why do you need darkvision? From your post, and the shadow blade reference, you may be under the impression that dim light imposes disadvantage on attack rolls. It doesn't. Okay, so darkvision is obviously good for solo scouting in darkness. You may or may not think solo scouting in darkness is a good idea in general, but in my experience, at least in Adventurers League, it's pretty rare. When it does come up, there's an obvious solution: find familiar. Either have your familiar with darkvision/blindsight scout ahead and let you know what they see, or use their senses when the situation calls for it. If there are obstacles, such as doors, don't be afraid to use the familiar's "teleport" ability.

Beyond the darkvision issue, you definitely want this spell. I've used an owl for advantage in every combat from 1st to 11th level and he's died once. That's across lots of different AL tables with lots of different DMs. Moreover, I always ask if the DM wants me to follow the rules and roll separate initiative for the familiar, and not a single DM has said "yes." They all want my familiar to act on my turn. Okay, say no more. Permanent advantage on my booming blade attacks, followed by Cunning Action Disengage.

I wouldn't worry about flight too much either. First, misty step is amazing. In many cases you'll be able to use it to get where you need to be. Second, there are a lot of flight-granting magic items in D&D. Third, it's a team game: If you really need to fly, there's probably someone in your party who can make that happen. A note on "getting where you're not supposed to be": In one module, we had to steal some medical supplies from a building whose exterior was guarded by thugs of some sort. I sneak up, look in a window, misty step in, dump the supplies in the bag of holding, and misty step out. The DM looked as his watch and said, "Well, that was supposed to take about an hour of game time."

If I were you, I'd stay rogue, cap Dex at level 8 and pick up Resilient (Con) at 10, since you have a 13 there anyway. By the time you get 3rd level spells you'll have a +7 Con save, so haste might not seem so risky, at least in appropriate situations -- and it's not like you can cast it all day anyway. If you're really worried about it, pick up War Caster at 12. It's a great feat for you anyway.

I think dispel magic is a great option for an arcane trickster, but I wouldn't really recommend counterspell. Again, team game, and there's usually going to be someone better for that than you. Someone with more slots, higher spellcasting ability modifier, and less uses for reactions. Same goes for most save spells. What I'm finding is that, even with Magical Ambush, that's often countered because we're running into a lot of enemies with magic resistance at this level. I'd focus on being a damage-dealer and skill monkey who augments those roles with a few spells. Otherwise try to leave the spellcasting to spellcasters. If you really want to play a wizard, now's the time to leave rogue and never look back.

All IME, IMHO, etc., etc.

[Eldariel]

I have a (variant) human arcane trickster as my convention character. He's 11th level now.

First question, why do you need darkvision? From your post, and the shadow blade reference, you may be under the impression that dim light imposes disadvantage on attack rolls. It doesn't. Okay, so darkvision is obviously good for solo scouting in darkness. You may or may not think solo scouting in darkness is a good idea in general, but in my experience, at least in Adventurers League, it's pretty rare. When it does come up, there's an obvious solution: find familiar. Either have your familiar with darkvision/blindsight scout ahead and let you know what they see, or use their senses when the situation calls for it. If there are obstacles, such as doors, don't be afraid to use the familiar's "teleport" ability.

Beyond the darkvision issue, you definitely want this spell. I've used an owl for advantage in every combat from 1st to 11th level and he's died once. That's across lots of different AL tables with lots of different DMs. Moreover, I always ask if the DM wants me to follow the rules and roll separate initiative for the familiar, and not a single DM has said "yes." They all want my familiar to act on my turn. Okay, say no more. Permanent advantage on my booming blade attacks, followed by Cunning Action Disengage.

The last game had most of the climactic encounters occur in cavernous terrains with no light and blindsighted aggressively antilight creatures so essentially I couldn't use sneak attack 'cause I was always attacking blinded/at a disadvantage. That feels like a pretty huge problem for a Rogue. The familiar doesn't help since I need to use an action to use their senses for a turn and then I'm out of attacks.


I wouldn't worry about flight too much either. First, misty step is amazing. In many cases you'll be able to use it to get where you need to be. Second, there are a lot of flight-granting magic items in D&D. Third, it's a team game: If you really need to fly, there's probably someone in your party who can make that happen. A note on "getting where you're not supposed to be": In one module, we had to steal some medical supplies from a building whose exterior was guarded by thugs of some sort. I sneak up, look in a window, misty step in, dump the supplies in the bag of holding, and misty step out. The DM looked as his watch and said, "Well, that was supposed to take about an hour of game time."

Yeah, Misty Steps is awesome but still, I feel like if I don't have flight on my own power there's just so many places I can't reach and so many enemies I can't trivialize and I'm just so restricted. I guess ultimately I'll have to get magic items to that end.


If I were you, I'd stay rogue, cap Dex at level 8 and pick up Resilient (Con) at 10, since you have a 13 there anyway. By the time you get 3rd level spells you'll have a +7 Con save, so haste might not seem so risky, at least in appropriate situations -- and it's not like you can cast it all day anyway. If you're really worried about it, pick up War Caster at 12. It's a great feat for you anyway.

I think dispel magic is a great option for an arcane trickster, but I wouldn't really recommend counterspell. Again, team game, and there's usually going to be someone better for that than you. Someone with more slots, higher spellcasting ability modifier, and less uses for reactions. Same goes for most save spells. What I'm finding is that, even with Magical Ambush, that's often countered because we're running into a lot of enemies with magic resistance at this level. I'd focus on being a damage-dealer and skill monkey who augments those roles with a few spells. Otherwise try to leave the spellcasting to spellcasters. If you really want to play a wizard, now's the time to leave rogue and never look back.

Haste is alluring in the sense that it would allow using familiar senses and attacking as well. It just seems like it solves such a huge array of issues...but what kind of a Rogue can't deal with magical traps anyways? While it's a teamgame, I never feel like I can trust anyone so I try to cover my bases on my own. Particularly since I like to wander off on my own and do solo stuff much of the time; I often lack allies out of choice. They're loud and spoil my stealth.

[GoodmanDL]

Darkvision isn't needed if you can get your hands on "goggles of the night" - and those don't even use attunement.

You could make a case for Blindness if you want an attack spell. I'd vote against counterspell - at the level you get it, you'll have trouble making it stick. I'd rather have fly.

[Finieous]

The last game had most of the climactic encounters occur in cavernous terrains with no light and blindsighted aggressively antilight creatures so essentially I couldn't use sneak attack 'cause I was always attacking blinded/at a disadvantage. That feels like a pretty huge problem for a Rogue. The familiar doesn't help since I need to use an action to use their senses for a turn and then I'm out of attacks.

I mean, if you were in combat against enemies with blindsight using darkness against you, that sounds like a problem for the whole party and darkvision wouldn't be much of a solution! I guess I'd need to hear more details about the encounter.

My AT has the light cantrip. He's never had to fight a battle in darkness -- not to say it can't happen, but your last fight seems pretty unusual. I'd definitely like to hear more about it.

[bobofwestgate]

If your DM doesn't allow feats, consider a dip in Wizard (Blade Singer).
Although, I would say if you're going for a Blade Singer dip you're better off making it a split because otherwise, you'll be delaying your spell levels quite a bit.

I recently theorycrafted an Arcane Tricketer/Blade Singer build of my own:


Progression: R1, R2, W1, R3, W2, W3, W4, R4, W5, R5 | W6, R6, R7, R8, R9, R10, W7, W8, W9, W10
Spells:

Cantrips:
Level 3 - Minor Illusion, Origami, Booming Blade
Level 4 - Mage Hand, Message, Green-Flame Blade

1st-level and above:
Level 3 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Detect Magic, Expeditious Retreat
Level 4 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud
Level 5 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
Level 6 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility
Level 7 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility, Levitate, Mirror Image
Level 8 - AT: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Fog Cloud, Disguise Self
Level 9 - WIZ: Find Familiar, Shield, Absorb elements, Grease, Longstrider, Expeditious Retreat, Alarm, Detect Magic
| Shadow Blade, Invisibility, Suggestion, Mirror Image
| Counterspell, Fireball

Stats:
STR - 8
DEX - 17 (+2)
CON - 13
INT - 16 (+1)
WIS - 10
CHA - 10

Feats:
Level 7 - Mobile
Level 8 - Resilient/War Caster
Level 12 - Elven Accuracy/+DEX
Level 16 - +DEX
Level 20 - +INT



Unless his DM makes an exception this isn't an option. He said in his post that he's playing Human