What's left

[Benjamin Vazque]

With the new book being announced, we seem to have about 25 pages left to wrap everything up. It feels like there are enough plot points left to fill twice that number, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if I'm overcounting. Bare minimum I could see would be...

5 more pages to wrap up the current battle.
2 pages to find out Kudzu's current status and wrap up Hilgya's arc.
1/2 page to follow up on Not Thad's rescue plan. I'm assuming this won't directly involve the order, and my gut is Minrah will take the lead on this, but there will probably be at least a few panels on the who and how.
1/2 page on miscellaneous Temple of Thor wrap-up.
1 page (at bare minimum) showcasing Durkon & family being family.
1 page to wrap up the Andi-Bandana arc.
2 pages to wrap up the Hailey-Bandana arc.
2 pages to wrap up the Godsmoot (admitedly, this could happen off screen).
2 pages to check in on our favourite paladin duo up north.
2 pages to check in on Team Evil up north.
5 pages to establish the Order's next steps and send them into the next book.

Adds up to 23 pages, and my gut is that most of my strip guesses are conservative. I could easily see ten pages at the north pole, for instance.

What am I missing? What needs to be wrapped up in the coming 25 pages that hasn't already been dealt with?

Enjoy,
Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.

[Squire Doodad]

With the new book being announced, we seem to have about 25 pages left to wrap everything up. It feels like there are enough plot points left to fill twice that number, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if I'm overcounting. Bare minimum I could see would be...

5 more pages to wrap up the current battle.
2 pages to find out Kudzu's current status and wrap up Hilgya's arc.
1/2 page to follow up on Not Thad's rescue plan. I'm assuming this won't directly involve the order, and my gut is Minrah will take the lead on this, but there will probably be at least a few panels on the who and how.
1/2 page on miscellaneous Temple of Thor wrap-up.
1 page (at bare minimum) showcasing Durkon & family being family.
1 page to wrap up the Andi-Bandana arc.
2 pages to wrap up the Hailey-Bandana arc.
2 pages to wrap up the Godsmoot (admitedly, this could happen off screen).
2 pages to check in on our favourite paladin duo up north.
2 pages to check in on Team Evil up north.
5 pages to establish the Order's next steps and send them into the next book.

Adds up to 23 pages, and my gut is that most of my strip guesses are conservative. I could easily see ten pages at the north pole, for instance.

What am I missing? What needs to be wrapped up in the coming 25 pages that hasn't already been dealt with?

Enjoy,
Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.

I'd like to say something about it being 25 strips and not pages, but the count Rich gave was, in fact, a page count...
I'm pretty sure the Haley/Bandanna arc can be resolved while everyone else is planning on leaving, probably at the same time as the Andi/Bandanna bit. You're right that the Godsmoot will probably have panels dedicated to it instead of pages.

I'm personally expecting Durkon's time with his family to be the big one, unless the bit about Xykon is bigger than I'm expecting.

[RatElemental]

Ah what the hell. 1000 quatloos says this book ends with a good chunk of pages dedicated to Xykon and Redcloak finding the gate.

[Squire Doodad]

Ah what the hell. 1000 quatloos says this book ends with a good chunk of pages dedicated to Xykon and Redcloak finding the gate.

*pulls out check book*

Would you define good chunk as being over 25%? Or over 33%?

[RatElemental]

*pulls out check book*

Would you define good chunk as being over 25%? Or over 33%?

Let's go with at least five pages. Counting any pages that take place at Kraagor's gate but focused outside of it.

Not going to put quatloos on this, but I see it going down something like this:

O-Chul and Lien watching the last door Team Evil went in, one of them remarking on how long they've been in there. Cue the other saying "Maybe the monsters finally got them" and the response being "Or maybe they found it." with a panel of the two of them making that :smalleek: face as a beat panel before ending on a huge detailed panel of Team Evil arriving at Kraagor's gate. This strip will be either preceded by a few strips devoted to Team Evil talking to each other as they enter the door again, or succeeded by strips of them doing so now that they're at the gate, or both. I expect it'll be the cliffhanger this book ends on though.

[Rollin]

I'd allocate a page for Gontor and the Creed of the Stone, and what their proper place is amid the dwarven soul shenanigans.

[Quebbster]

Wasn't the Andi-Bandana arc wrapped up here? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1079.html) Also not sure what needs to be wrapped up between Haley and Bandana... If the Order keeps traveling with the Mechane (admittedly, they might get other transportation for the next book) we could see some more Bandana scenes in the next book instead.
I do like the idea of sending a party to rescue not-Thad. Would give a good reason for Minrah, Logann, his sister, Thirden, and a few others not following the Order North.
Definitely expecting Another showdown between Hilgya and Sigdi... and it should be good.
I do expect a Quick checkin at the Godsmoot... hopefully with someone realizing that with the moot over, the High Priestess of Hel is no longer protected by the meeting rules.
And yes, the tail end of the book should have a check-in at the North pole somehow. It will take a few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) for Team Evil to finih their rituals, so starting the countdown would be most dramatically appropriate.

[Jannoire]

That's my guess, too.

We'll have this encounter nicely wrapped up in 15 strips. Then there are 9 strips about rescuing Not-Thad, one half about the order getting ready to depart to the north, and the last part being the cliffhanger when Team Evil arrives at something that looks heavily like a gate.

Maybe not even showing the gate.
RC and Xykon smiling with grim dedication. Oona with a surprised look on her face. And MitD asking all of them what they are staring at...

[Emanick]

That's my guess, too.

We'll have this encounter nicely wrapped up in 15 strips. Then there are 9 strips about rescuing Not-Thad, one half about the order getting ready to depart to the north, and the last part being the cliffhanger when Team Evil arrives at something that looks heavily like a gate.

Maybe not even showing the gate.
RC and Xykon smiling with grim dedication. Oona with a surprised look on her face. And MitD asking all of them what they are staring at...

9 strips about rescuing Not-Thad? I expect the rescue to be addressed in a bonus strip, if at all. That guy is not important to the plot.

[Jannoire]

9 strips about rescuing Not-Thad? I expect the rescue to be addressed in a bonus strip, if at all. That guy is not important to the plot.

Just because he's not Thad doesn't mean he's not important!
Jokes aside, it was a rough estimate. I guess there will be close to ten strips about saying goodbye, explaining things, preparing for the travel, finishing up business in the Dwarven lands and having a tasty evening with the extended family.

[Schroeswald]

Just because he's not Thad doesn't mean he's not important!
Jokes aside, it was a rough estimate. I guess there will be close to ten strips about saying goodbye, explaining things, preparing for the travel, finishing up business in the Dwarven lands and having a tasty evening with the extended family.

8-10 strips wrapping up Durkon and his families story sounds about right.

[KorvinStarmast]

I am going to meta game this.
The book needs to be delivered in December in time for Christmas, the pdfs loaded in early December. The print run probably needs to start some time in November.

That leaves now through the end of October for content. At the rate we have gotten used to, about one page per week, there are roughly 15 strips to go. (Granted, an increased rate is also possible - they come out when they are ready to come out).

Three more for council resolution.
One more for worm battle resolution.
Two or three "family" focused strips that sort out Kudzu and Hilgya's situation.
A few more for ... something.
At least one, maybe two or three, for RC and Xykon doing "something" up north.
One or two for getting on the Mechane and heading north.

Note:

Andi/Bandana tension has been resolved. Andi won't get to strike three. Julio Felix proposed the punishment for mutiny and it was accepted already.
That one's sorted out already. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1079.html)
Bandana's authority is no longer in question.

Thanks Jannoire for catching my mistake there.

[Jannoire]

Andi/Bandana tension has been resolved. Andi won't get to strike three, and Julio proposed the punishment for mutiny and it was accepted already. That one's sorted out already.

Julio left a while before that tension arose to the level of mutiny. Felix on the other hand provided a nice solution, which bandana adopted more or less.

Also, we have a pretty good guess about the amount of pages remaining, by Word of Giant.
I just realized that said guess is likely inacurate, due to the number of bonus strips being somewhere between 10 and 20

[Iain]

1 page for the dominated Dwarves to finish voting and condemn the world.

1 page of Hel gloating.

1 page of the Gods preparing to destroy the world.

Cut to 1 page of Xykon and co. accidentally destroying the last gate.

20 pages of the Snarl emerging and devouring the surroundings, the world, the universe and the Gods.

1 page of "Haha, didn't expect that, did you?"

[Jannoire]

1 page of "Haha, didn't expect that, did you?"

First page of the last book "Just kidding, let's see what actually happened"

[jidasfire]

So it's all going to end soon for sure, but I have a feeling that even once the Exarch goes down, he's not quite the final boss of this story. The story set up awhile back what manner of powerful minions Hel has at her disposal, including her Death Giants and her hound Garm, and I can't help but wonder if they weren't mentioned with a purpose. Durkon could borrow Roy's girdle of giant strength and become capable of slaying giants in a single hit. Durkon also mentioned wanting to give Hel a piece of his mind, and it would be pretty neat to see not only that, but perhaps also undoing the curse put on his people through some sort of confrontation. There's also the matter of the Sphynx Pox still in motion, and while I think that may not be resolved by the end of this arc, it's not impossible that it will be somewhat dealt with.

As usual though, predicting the comic has usually not proven one of my strongest suits, so take this theorizing with a grain of salt.

[Jannoire]

While Hel certainly has minions at her disposal, she's not able to send them out. This would be seen as cheating by the other gods, which would result in more chaos...

Also, Durkon already got a new belt, IIRC. And it's most likely a belt of giant strength, as it das stashed away with the hammer and a pair of new gloves.

[The Pilgrim]

At the current pace, if Rich wants to deliver the book by xmas, he has only time for 10-15 updates. Though many of them may be double page updates, leading to the 25 count.

Next update will probably be a climatic one, in which Durkon's plan set in motion will reveal itself. That opening looks fine for some Alchemist's fire down from a certain airship. Or maybe all the cave will crumble, "just as your pa did", forcing the councilmembers to call for a recess as they flee to the area where Gontor can be killed (he can't remain in the collapsed cave because of sunshine killing him and all that).

Give two or three pages for family reunions, another two or three for the resolving of the Godsmoot, and three or four for the Order's epiloge enroute to the North Pole, and we still have more than10 pages than can be devoted to some Team Evil action and an end-of-book reveal that will leave the story in a cliffhanger.

[KorvinStarmast]

Julio left a while before that tension arose to the level of mutiny. I meant Felix, I linked to the strip for Felix, but I typed Julio. *doh*

[CriticalFailure]

I wonder if the next book will have more Team Evil scenes, those are often some of my favorites.

[Schroeswald]

I wonder if the next book will have more Team Evil scenes, those are often some of my favorites.
Its the final book, so we know at least the back half will feature a lot of them, but yeah, its been three years since we last saw them so I want to see them at least once a year for the final book (not expecting it based on the current pace), but we will almost certainly see them in the next few months which is good.

[RatElemental]

So it's all going to end soon for sure, but I have a feeling that even once the Exarch goes down, he's not quite the final boss of this story. The story set up awhile back what manner of powerful minions Hel has at her disposal, including her Death Giants and her hound Garm, and I can't help but wonder if they weren't mentioned with a purpose. Durkon could borrow Roy's girdle of giant strength and become capable of slaying giants in a single hit. Durkon also mentioned wanting to give Hel a piece of his mind, and it would be pretty neat to see not only that, but perhaps also undoing the curse put on his people through some sort of confrontation. There's also the matter of the Sphynx Pox still in motion, and while I think that may not be resolved by the end of this arc, it's not impossible that it will be somewhat dealt with.

As usual though, predicting the comic has usually not proven one of my strongest suits, so take this theorizing with a grain of salt.

Somehow I don't think this comic will ever involve a member of the order actually physically fighting a god. May as well be watching a boxing match between an ant and Mike Tyson.

[Squire Doodad]

Somehow I don't think this comic will ever involve a member of the order actually physically fighting a god. May as well be watching a boxing match between an ant and Mike Tyson.

Yeah, the two might be strong for their respective power classes, but Mike Tyson is literally out of the ant's league by several orders of magnitude. Flailing at the Snarl while attempting to seal it could work (like the scribblers), though that's the most I'd expect.

[The Pilgrim]

Somehow I don't think this comic will ever involve a member of the order actually physically fighting a god. May as well be watching a boxing match between an ant and Mike Tyson.

More like a boxing match between a flyweight and a heavyweight. Still a curbstomp, but at least the curbstomper gets to notice the existence of the curbstomped, instead of just casually stepping onto it.

[RatElemental]

More like a boxing match between a flyweight and a heavyweight. Still a curbstomp, but at least the curbstomper gets to notice the existence of the curbstomped, instead of just casually stepping onto it.

The flyweight has a chance of landing a punch that even hurts a little bit, which makes it an unfitting metaphor. I suppose it'd be most like a match between a toddler and Mike Tyson. Big enough to notice, not likely to actually do any damage at all.

[The Pilgrim]

You are being unfair here. A group of high level characters like the Order have a chance to punch a God once, before being totally obliterated.

[KorvinStarmast]

OK, my guess is pretty far off since I only acccounted for one of the two mitigating factors: I forgot about two page strips coming out.

I'll still say that about 15 is the count, though, since real life quality control and finishing touches and such, and the print run, and on time delivery, don't happen in a vacuum.

[JT]

You are being unfair here. A group of high level characters like the Order have a chance to punch a God once, before being totally obliterated.

Really? Look at Durkon and Minrah when they were dead.

They walked a long distance on Thor’s BOOT top, for Odin’s sake!
... without even recognizing they were akin to fleas on a dog!

When Thor -spoke- it was enough to rattle them senseless.

OOTS Gods are far beyond what mere characters can even conceive of.

[Mike Havran]

Really? Look at Durkon and Minrah when they were dead.

They walked a long distance on Thor’s BOOT top, for Odin’s sake!
... without even recognizing they were akin to fleas on a dog!

When Thor -spoke- it was enough to rattle them senseless.

OOTS Gods are far beyond what mere characters can even conceive of.To be fair, they were just petitioners at that point.

[The Pilgrim]

Really? Look at Durkon and Minrah when they were dead.

They walked a long distance on Thor’s BOOT top, for Odin’s sake!
... without even recognizing they were akin to fleas on a dog!

When Thor -spoke- it was enough to rattle them senseless.

OOTS Gods are far beyond what mere characters can even conceive of.

Yet we know that some characters achieved godhood. One of them from a monster race, no less.

This is DnD. Gods can be killed by mortals (who can by doing so become Gods themselves). The OOTS are far from the high-epic level required to pull it, but I'm sure at least V can land a spell that makes a slight wound to a God during the round that the divinity needs to kill the rest of the Order.

[Squire Doodad]

Yet we know that some characters achieved godhood. One of them from a monster race, no less.

This is DnD. Gods can be killed by mortals (who can by doing so become Gods themselves). The OOTS are far from the high-epic level required to pull it, but I'm sure at least V can land a spell that makes a slight wound to a God during the round that the divinity needs to kill the rest of the Order.

SplicedV was probably the only instance of a mortal in the history of this world capable of fighting a god at full power and lasting more than a couple rounds. Actually, assuming gods cannot revoke the splice, the effective level 75+ (possibly near 100) V might be able to kill a god one on one.
Current V, if fighting alongside the rest of the Order, would still die. I doubt even their most powerful attack would be capable of dealing noticeable damage to a god.

Xykon and RC could do something fighting together. The entire Order of the Scribble could possibly put up a fight. But no one can realistically kill a god, unless Xykon is actually an impossibly high level character that we didn't know about, which also means that Serini had a HUGE budget.

[The Pilgrim]

Who said "kill a God"? All I'm saying is that the Order could survive maybe two punches and even inflict a point of damage or two. More than an ant coud do to Mike Tyson.

[RatElemental]

Note: this is all based on the rules laid down for gods in 3.5 books the giant might not be using.

The order all working together and putting up their A-est of A-games might be able to deal damage to Dvalin, though with their track record with will saves that's unlikely, given the mere presence of a god will fascinate or frighten a mortal who can't resist.

As a demigod his damage reduction is a mere (as mere as it gets for anything that can claim godhood) 15/epic. Meaning if they land a hit that deals more than 15 damage, he'd actually feel it. That said, Dvalin has at minimum 6 fire resistance and 33 spell resistance. He also has immunity to lightning, acid, cold, banishment, and anything that can change his form (arguably including disintegrate). So V slipping anything past his defenses is... Not favorable (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html).

Haley might be able to get a sneak attack in that does enough damage, but Roy power attacking is right out thanks to the penalties to his attack roll for doing so. As a demigod, Dvalin would have anywhere from +1 to +5 to his AC, possibly another +13 on top of that, and a deflection bonus equal to his charisma mod (which I expect to be high, being a king and also a god) on top of all that. This is not counting his likely epic armor and shield if he has one.


And that's all for Dvalin. The probably weakest god we've seen on panel. Hel would be at least a lesser deity if not an intermediate one, which cranks all these crazy defensive bonuses way up.

[Squire Doodad]

Note: this is all based on the rules laid down for gods in 3.5 books the giant might not be using.

The order all working together and putting up their A-est of A-games might be able to deal damage to Dvalin, though with their track record with will saves that's unlikely, given the mere presence of a god will fascinate or frighten a mortal who can't resist.

As a demigod his damage reduction is a mere (as mere as it gets for anything that can claim godhood) 15/epic. Meaning if they land a hit that deals more than 15 damage, he'd actually feel it. That said, Dvalin has at minimum 6 fire resistance and 33 spell resistance. He also has immunity to lightning, acid, cold, banishment, and anything that can change his form (arguably including disintegrate). So V slipping anything past his defenses is... Not favorable (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html).

Haley might be able to get a sneak attack in that does enough damage, but Roy power attacking is right out thanks to the penalties to his attack roll for doing so. As a demigod, Dvalin would have anywhere from +1 to +5 to his AC, possibly another +13 on top of that, and a deflection bonus equal to his charisma mod (which I expect to be high, being a king and also a god) on top of all that. This is not counting his likely epic armor and shield if he has one.


And that's all for Dvalin. The probably weakest god we've seen on panel. Hel would be at least a lesser deity if not an intermediate one, which cranks all these crazy defensive bonuses way up.

I imagine Hermod would be weaker, but that's because the backstory probably doesn't include armor and stuff. Epic DR is Epic.

Actually dealing damage requires some major A gameiness.


Who said "kill a God"? All I'm saying is that the Order could survive maybe two punches and even inflict a point of damage or two. More than an ant coud do to Mike Tyson.

Okay, that could happen.

[RatElemental]

I imagine Hermod would be weaker, but that's because the backstory probably doesn't include armor and stuff. Epic DR is Epic.

Hermod is very likely a demigod who didn't arise in this world. As such his divine rank would probably be higher than Dvalin's. Divine rank matters more than having some armor.

[Squire Doodad]

Hermod is very likely a demigod who didn't arise in this world. As such his divine rank would probably be higher than Dvalin's. Divine rank matters more than having some armor.

I'm curious, what makes you think that? I was under the impression that all the demigods had arisen in this world on account of not having enough raw energy to survive the interim period.

[RatElemental]

I'm curious, what makes you think that? I was under the impression that all the demigods had arisen in this world on account of not having enough raw energy to survive the interim period.

{scrubbed} Nothing says a demigod has to have arisen in this world, they could have been demigods from the beginning of time.

[The Pilgrim]

Note: this is all based on the rules laid down for gods in 3.5 books the giant might not be using.


Yep, you are absolutely right. This is why I made the comparation with a combat between a flyweight and a heavyweight. The heavyweight not only can punch twice harder than the fly and has double the body mass to absorb punishment. It also averages an height of 1.96m (6'4ft) against the flyweight's average 1.65m (5.4ft), meaning the heavyweight has greater reach and can score a lethal (and I mean lethal) punch to the face of the flyweight before the latter can get close enough to reach him with a punch.

Basically a fight between a flyweight and a heavyweight is a massacre for the former, much like a fight between the Order and a God would be a massacre for the Order.

My dissenting point is that the guy performing the murder would still notice the existence of the murdered person, as opposite of just casually stomping over an ant. I mean the Order could still try to flee at first sight, an ant wouldn't even have that chance of survival.

[DavidSh]

On the other hand, a bullet ant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraponera_clavata) could probably do a point of damage to Mike Tyson.

[RatElemental]

Yep, you are absolutely right. This is why I made the comparation with a combat between a flyweight and a heavyweight. The heavyweight not only can punch twice harder than the fly and has double the body mass to absorb punishment. It also averages an height of 1.96m (6'4ft) against the flyweight's average 1.65m (5.4ft), meaning the heavyweight has greater reach and can score a lethal (and I mean lethal) punch to the face of the flyweight before the latter can get close enough to reach him with a punch.

Basically a fight between a flyweight and a heavyweight is a massacre for the former, much like a fight between the Order and a God would be a massacre for the Order.

My dissenting point is that the guy performing the murder would still notice the existence of the murdered person, as opposite of just casually stomping over an ant. I mean the Order could still try to flee at first sight, an ant wouldn't even have that chance of survival.

This is why I amended my analogy to a toddler instead of an ant. A flyweight has an outside chance of landing a hit on a heavyweight in the first place with enough force behind it they'd feel it.

[Squire Doodad]

On the other hand, a bullet ant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraponera_clavata) could probably do a point of damage to Mike Tyson.

If you have a god who ascended after dying from being poisoned, plenty of invertebrates can do wonderful things that inflict several points of damage.

[Agemegos]

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