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PoeticallyPsyco
2019-07-30, 07:58 PM
Yeah, like the title asks. If you've got absurdly high bonuses to some skills, what builds benefit the most from this? I imagine martial initiators can make good use of this (the line of Diamond Mind strikes that use Concentration rolls for damage come to mind), as well as stealthy characters with Hide/Move Silently; who else?

For those wondering, this question is inspired by by discovery that the Symbiotic Creature template gives all the skill ranks of the guest to the host as racial bonuses, allowing for some truly absurd totals.

EDIT: How do I add the "optimization" tag to this thread?

EDIT 2: What other maneuvers benefit from high skill bonuses?

Particle_Man
2019-07-30, 08:21 PM
Warlocks and UMD comes to mind, both for using magic items and making them.

RNightstalker
2019-07-30, 09:30 PM
There's a Desert Wind stance that gives you a growing resistance and ultimately immunity to fire based off your ranks in Tumble: Flame's Blessing. Tumble also helps you avoid provoking AOO's when you move through threatened squares.

Also, depending on how high the campaign goes, synergy bonuses increase when you have 25 or more ranks.

Thurbane
2019-07-30, 09:33 PM
Truenamer?

Iaijutsu Master (or any class that has Iaijutus Focus as a skill: Factotum etc.).

Kalkra
2019-07-30, 09:42 PM
Sha'ir? Exemplar?

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-07-30, 09:51 PM
Well, Versatile Performer combined with Perform (Sexual Technique) from the BoEF?

Escape Artist and the Arseplomancer?

Maybe combine the two?

...I'll go away now.

Particle_Man
2019-07-30, 10:50 PM
Don’t knowledge skills give progressively more info about opponents? There are feats that leverage that.

I guess a high intimidation could also be leveraged.

Rebel7284
2019-07-31, 12:05 AM
Incantatrix needs to make skill checks to apply free metamagic. Pretty amazing benefit there.

Biggus
2019-07-31, 01:49 PM
Anyone whose DM lets them get away with Diplomancy cheese (especially if they allow the "fanatic" rule from the ELH).

To a lesser extent, anyone with Knowledge Devotion.

pabelfly
2019-07-31, 02:11 PM
Evil characters benefit from a high Knowledge: Religion check when sacrificing intelligent characters. Book of Vile Darkness, p26-28.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-07-31, 02:18 PM
The Epic Spellcasting and Epic Manifesting feats. The higher your Knowledge (Arcana/Religion/Nature/Psionics) skill, the more epic spells you can cast.

Zaq
2019-07-31, 03:45 PM
If you've already got high skill mods, it’s just a matter of using them. Skills do have baked-in uses, so just finding ways to leverage those skills can be enough even without class features that use the skills.

Feats can help, too. Knowledge Devotion leaps to mind.

Thurbane
2019-07-31, 04:48 PM
Don’t knowledge skills give progressively more info about opponents? There are feats that leverage that.

Good for Archivists, Urban Savants etc.

daremetoidareyo
2019-07-31, 04:53 PM
Check out epic skill checks. Choose a skill or two, and we can work from there.

Can you symbiotic template an item familiar?

PoeticallyPsyco
2019-07-31, 05:13 PM
Check out epic skill checks. Choose a skill or two, and we can work from there.

Can you symbiotic template an item familiar?

No constructs, but Incarnate Construct (template or spell) turns it into a humanoid, right?

As a side note, the list of types that can and can't be used has always struck me as weird. Humanoids, but no monstrous humanoids or giants? Animals and vermin and plants (oh my), but no Magical Animals? And without constructs or undead (or giants or dragons for that matter) you can't recreate the trope of an enormous machine or moldering corpse (or lumbering behemoth) so old it's got its own ecosystem growing in the cracks. Though I suppose Blightspawned into Juju Zombie does at least partially fill that last void. Kind of. If you squint.

I'll get back to you on the epic skills; got studying to do right now.

The Viscount
2019-07-31, 08:36 PM
Fool's Stance lets you use Sense Motive instead of your AC.

Multiple Tiger Claw stances depend on your making a sufficient jump check.

Epic Diplomacy and Bluff get a lot of attention, but there's fun to be had with epic Ride skills as well.

To expand on Intimidate as mentioned above, what you need to make it shine is a way to do it faster such as with Zhentarim Fighter, Samurai, or Crimson Scourge, and the Imperious Command feat, but then with a sufficiently high check it's an indefinite lockdown for anything susceptible to fear. Worth noting that Imperious Command means they're cowering, which renders them vulnerable to sneak attacks. The problem is of course that immunity to mind affecting becomes increasingly common, and that means immunity to fear.

To elaborate on two classes mentioned previously, Sha'ir uses diplo to retrieve spells from other lists, and Exemplar can take 10 and turn any skill into diplo checks.

Hearty second for Iaijutsu focus, as found on Factotum, Savant, and Exemplar's list. 10d6 damage is pretty nice.

Sleight of Hand is a really powerful skill in that while it can be noticed with sufficient spot checks, there is no way of stopping it. If you have the Master Pickpocket feat from City of Stormreach and a good enough check, you can steal everything a character has that they aren't holding in a single round.

MaxiDuRaritry
2019-07-31, 09:34 PM
Isn't there a way for someone with a sufficiently high Sleight of Hand modifier to move creatures an infinite amount of distance as a large number of free actions?

magic9mushroom
2019-07-31, 10:37 PM
The Epic Spellcasting and Epic Manifesting feats. The higher your Knowledge (Arcana/Religion/Nature/Psionics) skill, the more epic spells you can cast.

Only counts ranks, not bonuses.

The Spellcraft check to cast said spells counts bonuses, but without houserules it's pretty rare to actually use your full Spellcraft (generally most of your spells you'll hack down to DC 0 so you don't have to pay through the nose to learn them).