Dragons Breath vs Shatter?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was just wondering which spell you find to be more useful this would be considering the wrong headed ruling of James Crawford, that Dragons breath can't be twin cast. All in all, they seem to be relatively even to me but I think that DB has a slight edge due to action economy.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I am with Dragon Breath because my casters are tanking or stealthing so it is easy to keep concentration.

I used it at a level 4 encounter of storming a fort.
Then. 20-30 enemies run to you and you stand with the paladin in the hallway you have a lot of targets, on the second round it doesn't even matter where you aim as you have goblins all around(sorry, I have spellblast song stuck in the head).

Shatter will only hit the first wave and can't be use to improve the single attack ally(like in the situation the cleric just cast his last spell of the day, spirit weapon

Dragon Breath help you keep spell slots for spells like shield and mirror image.

If you have only one wave of weak enemies that will die after they save then Shatter is best.

Shatter can break stuff(why there are no rules for how much it break :( )

[Dalebert]

Shatter can break stuff(why there are no rules for how much it break :( )

Starts for various materials including HP are listed somewhere. I think it's in the dmg.

[Keravath]

The biggest issue with Dragon Breath is that although it needs only a bonus action to cast, it requires an action to use. So whoever you cast it on needs to be a character that isn't likely to have a better use for their action most of the time. Also, if a character uses their action to use Dragon Breath it won't trigger any bonus action options that require taking the Attack action (e.g. two weapon fighting, PAM, or X-bow expert for example).

Whoever is using Dragon Breath also needs to be in the front line since the area of effect is only a 15' cone. The cone means that at most 6 creatures could be affected if they are all packed in close and it will do an average of 3d6=10.5 damage on a failed save. This does make it useful if you are fighting hordes. However, most level 5 characters with multiple attacks will be better off using those attacks.

Anyway, there are times when Dragon Breath could do more damage than shatter. However, considering that it uses the action of the character it is cast on and effective utilization requires the attackers to be packed together ... and for this to happen for more than one round (since otherwise shatter can affect a larger area and do more damage (3d8)) ... I'd say they are pretty comparable with perhaps the edge going to shatter, especially for an evoker wizard.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Starts for various materials including HP are listed somewhere. I think it's in the dmg.

Ok, my bad.

[Damon_Tor]

Hello all, I was just wondering which spell you find to be more useful this would be considering the wrong headed ruling of James Crawford, that Dragons breath can't be twin cast.

Not really sure we need another thread about this. IMO, you should probably edit the OP to be neutral on Dragon's Breath twinning. Taking a position on it is inviting disagreement, which will inevitably turn this thread into another toxic rehash of the exact same arguments we're seeing in the other one.

[Vogie]

Ignoring all rulings, Dragon's Breath is infinitely more useful. In addition to the normal, and least interesting, use of the spell when the caster casts it on themselves, It can also be gifted to any of your party members (giving frontline melee characters a magic AoE ability) as well as giving it to your familiar (fun with an owl's flyby feature).

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can look at Dragon Breath like Call Lightning. It is a weapon replacement that you can give your friends

[LudicSavant]

Hello all, I was just wondering which spell you find to be more useful this would be considering the wrong headed ruling of James Crawford, that Dragons breath can't be twin cast. All in all, they seem to be relatively even to me but I think that DB has a slight edge due to action economy.

Dragon's Breath is probably more impactful to a character's power curve overall, due to the way it can open up your action economy. It is an all-around excellent spell, though it takes a bit more finesse to use to its full potential than Shatter.

That said, they fill rather different roles; Dragon's Breath takes up your Concentration, a bonus action, and a minion's action and provides sustained output so long as the minion can act. Shatter just takes your Action and provides a singular burst, and breaks objects (which can be considered both an advantage and disadvantage, depending on the situation. Sometimes you don't want to break stuff in the area).

[JackPhoenix]

Whoever is using Dragon Breath also needs to be in the front line since the area of effect is only a 15' cone. The cone means that at most 6 creatures could be affected if they are all packed in close and it will do an average of 3d6=10.5 damage on a failed save. This does make it useful if you are fighting hordes. However, most level 5 characters with multiple attacks will be better off using those attacks.

That's where a flying familiar comes in. DB's not an attack, so familiar can use it, and it's unlikely to have better use for its action. If flying directly overhead, 15' cone turns into 15' diameter circle (technically, 15' square) at ground level, and it's out of melee range, and can potentially fly into cover after each bombing run. Also, thanks to flying, it's got more options where to hit, ignoring frontlines and picking best concentrations of enemies.

Of course, if the enemy does have ranged attacks, the familiar is going to die. It's serious threat now.

[Blood of Gaea]

Shatter, because it's not concentration. It can also be situationally devasting, like in a ship-to-ship battle.

But Dragon's Breath is handy if you have a familiar or non-PC to toss it on, it's not a bad spell.

[Daithi]

My vote is for Dragon's Breath, but just for the thematic value. Breathing fire is just flat out cool.