Can I increase realism/difficult mid-game?

[Karnitis]

I know usually you discuss difficulty/realism in session 0, but we are all friends. This was less meeting new people, more of a "hey, I have this plot in my head. You guys wanna play?"

It is a overthrow-the-evil-government type of thing. My group is used to things like a cartoon show, where food/bathroom breaks/killing everyone doesn't affect them at all. I'm not going to throw them into the deep end, like "you haven't eaten in three days, what do you do?" but...

They have to climb a mountain to a temple. They didn't need climbing gear, as there was an established path. I did heavily imply they needed winter clothes, however. They asked what clothing store was closest to their hotel, and I said a fine boutique - they went in and asked for thick coats. They bought some, and went on their way.

They went into the equivalent of a Macy's, when they needed an REI or a ****'s Sporting Goods. When they get up into the mountains, part of me wants to inflict minor cold dmg (D4/hour) as they aren't wearing sufficient protection, but it's a 12-hr trek to the mountains and that seems a steep punishment even with a cleric on their team.

Before you ask, they asked locals about where to go for mountaineering gear, and I said [correct merchant] a couple times. I don't want to punish them when there's not a solution (they aren't going to run into a merchant up on the path, of course) to fix it, but on the other hand, when will they learn?

So in short, is it okay for me to start imposing common sense punishments for real-world problems facing adventurers, or is it too far given we never discussed/agreed on it?

[nickl_2000]

The correct answer here is to talk it over with your players out of session. Send out an email/text/IM to the group and say "hey, I would like to do X because I think it would make it more fun. Is everyone okay with that."

If the answer is yes, I would have them run into a cabin in the mountains that has a trapper who has lived up there for years and is prepared for the wilderness (or a travelling caravan trying to make their way through the mountains with some rare merchandise). That trapper is willing to sell or trade with them to get the appropriate gear at a slightly inflated price.


Boom, more realism, PCs have a way out that makes sense storywise, and no one is surprised or annoyed.

[Mellack]

IMO you told them they needed winter clothes, they bought winter clothes. If you wanted them to get something different, you should have specifically said that the store didn't have the stuff they needed, but only carried fancy stuff that wouldn't give them the protection they needed. Just assuming that a fancy store doesn't carry warm enough outfits in not clear. The players could have easily thought that it was sufficient. Remember, your descriptions are all the players have to interact with the world. If you do not make things explicitly clear, misunderstandings will happen.

[Keravath]

I'd agree with Mellack. The DM is the one describing what is available, what they buy, and making sure the players UNDERSTAND what is being said. In this case, it sounds like you told them they needed winter and cold weather gear, maybe mountaineering. So they went out and bought some fur coats.

Do any of your players have any real life experience or interest in this area? Do any of the characters have knowledge of survival or nature, being outside, surviving in the wilds, managing in the wilderness in cold weather?

If the players don't have a real life clue, but the characters have the skills or knowledge to know the difference then YOU need to tell them since the characters should already know that the mink stole from the fashion shop next to the hotel is not the sort of fur coat you need for mountaineering.(Besides when you say "fur coat" they might think of a full length, heavy weight fur coat suitable for cold weather rather than a fashion accessory). It doesn't matter at all that you mentioned the name of the best mountaineering store in the town, the DM creates the scene and provides the players with the knowledge that their characters should know. So it is up to YOU to tell them that the shop doesn't have anything suitable for mountaineering UNLESS the characters themselves are actually as clueless about cold weather as the players seem to be. In which case, you probably do want to impose some sort of cold weather penalty.

However, you haven't mentioned the race/class/levels of the PCs involved. There are a surprisingly large number of ways of dealing with cold weather with character resources.

In addition, if any of the characters are rangers/druids, have proficiency in survival or nature, or have a race/background attribute related to mountains or occasional cold weather climates then they probably should have just been told what are suitable garments and what aren't.

[BloodOgre]

I have to agree with Keravath and Mellack on this one. While an equivalent of Macy's may not carry pitons and climbing gear, it will carry stylish cold weather protection if it is appropriate for the area, and at a premium price, too.

[Greywander]

I have to second much of what's already been said. You told them to buy warm coats, and they bought warm coats. If these coats weren't suitable for cold weather, you should have told them so, doubly so if one of them (e.g. a ranger or druid) should have known better.

In the event that they lose their warm coats, however, here's how I would handle the extreme cold. They make a CON save every hour, taking 1 cold damage on a failed save. DC starts at 8 and increases as they climb higher. Depending on how high the mountain is, I'd expect it to top out at a DC of 12 or 13. Not too hard, but the fact they have to repeat it every hour means it will gradually wear them down.

I believe the DMG (or was it the PHB?) talks about extreme heat and cold, and it says to give levels of exhaustion instead of damage on failed saves, so you could do that, instead, but that might be too harsh. Do remember that if they can get resistance to cold damage somehow, they become immune to cold weather exposure.

Is it a straight 12-hour hike, or do they have the option to make camp and rest by a warm fire for a while?

Edit: But you should probably just talk to your table about this. What do they want? They might like the idea of getting caught without suitable gear that only partially protects them, especially if you make your case to them well. Just remember that they pretty much did what you told them to do; you're expecting too much from your table for them to pick up on every little hint you drop, and their solution to the problem does make a certain amount of sense. I don't think you've got a good case here; it's not about what's realistic, it's about how well you communicated to your table. But maybe they'll agree with you. You never know until you ask, and sometimes you just have to come out and be honest and say, "I screwed up."

[Laserlight]

If I were the DM and my players did that, I would assume that I hadn't communicated clearly. They bought warm coats, so they're set and don't get cold damage (unless the Dread Glacier is moving in).

[Bigmouth]

To the question in the topic. No. Not without discussing it with the players and getting their full agreement.

To the specifics...in a fantasy/medieval setting, what exactly is better than a fur coat? A fur coat is the best cold weather garment you can get without modern technology. Are we assuming the players only have fur coats but are wearing lightweight summertime clothing otherwise? No fur lined boots, no gloves, no hats, no sweaters, no heavy winter pants? If all the characters are somehow clueless about cold weather, then that would be cool and I would certainly let them get halfway up the mountain and realize "F**k! We're cold!" then head back down the mountain to see about better supplies. Is there a particular reason why it being 12 hours of going up the path is a big deal? Saying "We go back to town." is hardly a big deal. Boom, you're back in town. "We buy better gear" OK. "We go back up the mountain." Seems like a minor speed bump and nothing to be concerned about. Also RP worthy learning experience. "Wow. When they said cold, they meant COLD!"

If the characters are theoretically familiar with cold, or survival experts, then that whole scenario is significantly less cool. If one of the characters is a Ranger with mountains as favored environment, then I'd consider it bad GMing to run the above. That character's player should definitely have been informed "These are good coats, but you'll need more than just coats. You'll also need X, Y, and Z" Players with characters who grew up in the mountains or other cold environments should likewise be given a headsup, as their characters would be very unlikely to make the mistake the players made.

Note: I did this IRL. Went to college in Minnesota. Bought winter coat and thought I'd be good. Waiting for a bus on first real day of Minnesota winter and said "F**k!" Immediately went into nearby department store, bought new boots, new gloves, and a hat. Went back out to catch the bus.
Note2: There is a decent chance I will probably be running this same scenario in my current campaign if the PCs choose one of the RP hooks that will take them into the mountains. They are all from dry hot desert areas, so without outside help could easily underestimate how cold it gets in the mountains.

[DeadMech]

As others have said I don't see the fun of punishing players for not knowing things that their characters should. Unless you specifically told them what was available in the boutique was suitable only for an aristocrat's mild winter walk through town and not climbing a mountain path for 12 hours.

I'm all for their being a graduated scale of temperature appropriate clothing. The winter coats available in my local walmart aren't something I'd want to be caught wearing in the middle of a blizzard or have to wear for several hours of hitchhiking because my car broke down. But I'm a Canadian. I know full well the limitations of these things and I'm not even all that outdoorsy. But I'm a real person with my own eyes, ears, and other senses. DnD characters rely on you, the DM, to communicate these things to the players controlling them.

Choices are only meaningful if they are informed.